Cant really decide

[ZA Dater]

11 minutes ago, semble said:

This post highlights your problem. You finally get a live one. You decide based on a photo you're not attracted. To her credit, she doesn't want to waste time, and suggests meeting the next day. And yes, many people are nervous meeting someone for the first time, a bit of alcohol can result in a loss of inhibitions and can create a relaxed atmosphere. To you these are all reasons not to take things further, and write yet another thread about how difficult dating is.

That's another thing, you have probably chosen the wrong hill to die on with this whole "I don't drink alcohol" position you have taken. I've had and heart of therapists suggesting to their clients to have a drink now and again to relax them a bit. I know you're reading this and thinking "I'd never do that". You'd never do a lot of things. You're one of the most rigid, inflexible and closeminded individuals I've ever seen who hopes things will change, without making any modifications to their own behavior and thought patterns. You know the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again yet expecting different results.

You right, drinking has no appeal to me at all, especially on a first date. Reminds me of one date who got so drunk on a date she was all over me, eventually had I had to get her an Uber because she could not drive. Why do people need a loss of inhibitions, again I cannot see this as being positive at all, create relaxed atmosphere and again I strongly disagree based on m my experience of having to try deal with people who drink too much, certainly nothing relaxed about that situation. 

No if I were doing the same thing again I'd have met up with her and put myself in the same awkward position I in all probability would have landed up in. Dating I maintain is a lot easier if you are meeting people you actually find interesting and attractive. I know people who really enjoy dating, they enjoy going out on dates and you know what I never have to hear them ever say they need to compromise because well they have choice, none of them bend over backward to pander to people in the hope they may be liked, I used to go out in this group, for these guys it is easy, they have all the attributes people actually want. Furthermore they meet people who are actually interested in them and they do not need to reinvent the wheel to try and get the person to like them Yes, I would have done that too, I'd have been desperate to go on a date, even if I knew I did not find the person attractive. 

This time I did not do that. I have been on dates where the people were so desperate to win approval the entire date became awkward, attractive people seldom do this, they are confident enough to know they are attractive and thus need not bend over backward to win the approval of others.

I must thank the forum for allowing  me to avoid a 100 mile round trip, the high possibility of a very awkward experience and the even higher possibility of me feeling even less confident and even worse about myself.

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

But this is very much not the case.  There is no place in OP's world where "woman" and "friend" would ever intersect.

Odd because K was a friend for years before she moved abroad, I have someone else who is a friend but again my friendship is only really tied to what I can do for people and I am by far the bottom of the list when it comes to someone they would actually spend time with. 

Someone here told me "dating sites are not for friends, people who go on dating sites are looking for a partner and not more friends"

[NuevoYorko]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

 Arguably I make for a better friend than I do a partner. The only small problem is my record of finding people who actually want to be friends versus those who want to use me is not a very good one.

From your posts, I get the impression that what many people call "friendship," you would categorize as "using" you for something.  

In reality, friends do things for each other all the time.   You don't work that way.  Seems like if someone would like to ask you for something or suggest something that might be mutually beneficial, you see that as "using" you.

On the other hand, you have zero interest in any human being besides yourself.  If you are being "friends" with a woman, you are only there to be in the orbit of somebody who looks like a supermodel and perhaps has decent social skills so they can carry on a conversation.

You are not going to bother being "friends" with an unattractive woman or one who is old or has kids. 

Who's "using" people?

[semble]

16 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

You right, drinking has no appeal to me at all, especially on a first date. Reminds me of one date who got so drunk on a date she was all over me, eventually had I had to get her an Uber because she could not drive. Why do people need a loss of inhibitions, again I cannot see this as being positive at all, create relaxed atmosphere and again I strongly disagree based on m my experience of having to try deal with people who drink too much, certainly nothing relaxed about that situation. 

 

See this is what you do. It's all or nothing, and you'd never consider doing anything different from what you've done your entire life, despite the ongoing failures.

Paraphrasing here" "I don't drink, and would never even consider it on a first date, there's no need for a loss of inhibitions, there's nothing positive about it, I'd never do it because somebody got way too drunk once and I even had to call an Uber".

Your thinking is so rigid there's literally no room for improvement or any sort of real change.

In fact - in regard to this particuiar topic- you couldn't be more wrong.

 

[ZA Dater]

27 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

From your posts, I get the impression that what many people call "friendship," you would categorize as "using" you for something.  

In reality, friends do things for each other all the time.   You don't work that way.  Seems like if someone would like to ask you for something or suggest something that might be mutually beneficial, you see that as "using" you.

On the other hand, you have zero interest in any human being besides yourself.  If you are being "friends" with a woman, you are only there to be in the orbit of somebody who looks like a supermodel and perhaps has decent social skills so they can carry on a conversation.

You are not going to bother being "friends" with an unattractive woman or one who is old or has kids. 

Who's "using" people?

Well here the the thing its me doing things for them but there is very little reciprocation which is fine, I do not mind that. Mutually beneficial, again without context this is a challenging statement. 

Using people would have had me go to this date, lead her on and then ghost her tomorrow, that would have been using someone. Alternatively the other variation of this would have been going there and doing as someone else mentioned "drinking to lower inhibitions" and landing up having a ONS and the ghosting her. Oddly I cant really see declining a date or not being interested as being at all on the same scale of "using". 

Guess what, the reason I am not interested in being friends with the people you mention is once again those lines become blurred, not by me but by the apparent friend as has happened before when I attempted to be friends, again off a dating site. So forgive me for not being particularly interested in going down that road again. 

 

[semble]

4 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

 Alternatively the other variation of this would have been going there and doing as someone else mentioned "drinking to lower inhibitions" and landing up having a ONS and the ghosting her

You're very obtuse in your thinking. I suggested a drink to lower inhibitions, reduce nervousness, and make the date more enjoyable. Nothing about a one night stand and ghosting her. I wasn't even referring to this particular person, it was just a general suggestion to possibly improve your dating success.

 

[ZA Dater]

24 minutes ago, semble said:

See this is what you do. It's all or nothing, and you'd never consider doing anything different from what you've done your entire life, despite the ongoing failures.

Paraphrasing here" "I don't drink, and would never even consider it on a first date, there's no need for a loss of inhibitions, there's nothing positive about it, I'd never do it because somebody got way too drunk once and I even had to call an Uber".

Your thinking is so rigid there's literally no room for improvement or any sort of real change.

In fact - in regard to this particuiar topic- you couldn't be more wrong.

 

I'll just agree to disagree because if alcohol is what is required to date and to be social then I am very glad to not do either of those things. I do not enjoy alcohol, why should I need to consume something I do not in the remote hope it makes me more attractive? Nobody can of course answer that question. 

So I go this date, order water and then what, I am at a date I do not particularly want to be at. Not sure how alcohol would change that outlook at all.

[semble]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

I do not enjoy alcohol, why should I need to consume something I do not in the remote hope it makes me more attractive? 

How do you know you won't like alcohol? Have you tried it? Or are you just assuming you won't like it.

Also- and this is very relevant- look what you did there. I never said or remotely even implied that drinking alcohol would make you more attractive. You jump to these wildly incorrect conclusions and or completely misunderstand what another person is saying. You are probably really difficult to have a conversation with of any sort of depth. That's part of the problem right there. Try to listen better.

 

 

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, semble said:

You're very obtuse in your thinking. I suggested a drink to lower inhibitions, reduce nervousness, and make the date more enjoyable. Nothing about a one night stand and ghosting her. I wasn't even referring to this particular person, it was just a general suggestion to possibly improve your dating success.

 

Again I really do not know how having a glass of wine makes a date more enjoyable, really I do not. Either I want to be there or I do not, also list in my profile I drink wine, how does that enhance my dating? 

I stopped being nervous on dates years ago because again most of the time I never wanted to be on that to begin with, 95% of them it was a case of "well go because you never know maybe she is really nice in person" and 95% of the time that never actually was the case. I had to stop that "store" mentality way of dating and decide that I am only going to go if I actually have a real interest in the person.

This time I thought about going because frankly its a holiday weekend. Once again I am glad to take the advice and not go.

 

[semble]

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Again I really do not know how having a glass of wine makes a date more enjoyable, really I do not

 

Because.. like I explained before.. CLEARLY: alcohol loses inhibitions and makes it easier for two strangers to be more open and communicate more freely and openly.

Do you have problems understanding new thoughts and ideas? I'm starting to realize it's not that you don't "want" to develop a more successful strategy. You are simply incapable of seeing outside the little box you have firmly trapped yourself within.

 

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Because guess what, that makes me feel good actually as I think it would most people, it is one of the very few ways I can derive some confidence. 

It’s clear you don’t understand most people. Most people feel good when they genuinely connect with others. The attractiveness of the other people is a complete non-factor.

 

You deriving some sort of fake confidence from being seen with someone who is attractive is not normal, or remotely healthy emotionally. Therapy would help get to the bottom of this. 

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, semble said:

How do you know you won't like alcohol? Have you tried it? Or are you just assuming you won't like it.

Also- and this is very relevant- look what you did there. I never said or remotely even implied that drinking alcohol would make you more attractive. You jump to these wildly incorrect conclusions and or completely misunderstand what another person is saying. You are probably really difficult to have a conversation with of any sort of depth. That's part of the problem right there. Try to listen better.

I listen perfectly well thanks, I am simply really tired of everyone around me trying to tell me I must drink, is it really so hard for people to accept I do not enjoy alcohol and simply do not want to partake. Is that really too much to ask?

For what its worth I have tried it and I did not enjoy it. Much like I have been to club and bars and do not enjoy them either and like I went to church and did not enjoy that. 

One thing I had forgotten and someone here reminded me of it, kids are a big deal, if someone wants them and I do not then already the date is probably a bad idea, in the past I had glossed over this because well I thought it did not really matter but as I have move age groups someone who is 38-40 and wants kids, I honestly cant waste a person's time because they should really find someone who does want kids.

[semble]

Just now, Weezy1973 said:

It’s clear you don’t understand most people.

Agreed, I just said the same thing. Even right here on this thread. Simple ideas go right over his head.

It's bad enough on here.. in real life it's gotta be a really frustrating experience trying to have a simple conversation with him with all these preconceived notions and inability to adjust and adapt to new thoughts, ideas and behaviors.

I'm surprised he can even get a woman to go on a second date with him.

 

 

[semble]

Just now, ZA Dater said:

I listen perfectly well thanks, I am simply really tired of everyone around me trying to tell me I must drink, is it really so hard for people to accept I do not enjoy alcohol and simply do not want to partake. Is that really too much to ask?

For what its worth I have tried it and I did not enjoy it. 

You listen but you do not hear.

You already said you don't enjoy drinking alcohol.

Specifically what is it about drinking alcohol that you don't like?

 

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, Weezy1973 said:

It’s clear you don’t understand most people. Most people feel good when they genuinely connect with others. The attractiveness of the other people is a complete non-factor.

You deriving some sort of fake confidence from being seen with someone who is attractive is not normal, or remotely healthy emotionally. Therapy would help get to the bottom of this. 

Actually its quite normal, most of my friends actually feel the same way and have done for years. I'll just agree to disagree but for me attractiveness is pretty important and by that I mean overall attractiveness. 

[Weezy1973]

16 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

, 95% of them it was a case of "well go because you never know maybe she is really nice in person" and 95% of the time that never actually was the case.

Yes, this is the case for most folks with OLD. But you slog through the 95% to get to the 5%. Your problem is that for whatever reason, dating the 95% makes you feel bad about yourself. You feel traumatized by having to tell a woman you’re not interested in dating them. Write this down and repeat it three time a day:

”It was great meeting you, however I don’t think we’re a match. Good luck in your search!”

Works like a charm. Trauma not required. 

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, semble said:

You listen but you do not hear.

You already said you don't enjoy drinking alcohol.

Specifically what is it about drinking alcohol that you don't like?

 

I do not like the taste and I especially do not like the way it affects people and the way some behave.  What I especially do not like either is the fact I am seen as some sort of alien because I choose not to drink, this does not happen all the time but it does happen a lot of the time. After basically cancelling the date I now get told maybe I want to go for a drink tomorrow......after mentioning I do not drink once again.

 

[Weezy1973]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

Actually its quite normal, most of my friends actually feel the same way and have done for years.

Your first post says you have only one friend, so that’s a pretty tiny sample size to assess all of humanity. 

 

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I'll just agree to disagree but for me attractiveness is pretty important and by that I mean overall attractiveness. 

The overall attractiveness of a friend is pretty important in making someone feel good about themselves? That’s not remotely normal. It’s the shared connection that feels good with a non-romantic friend. Sure you need to be attracted to someone your going to date romantically, but why should that matter if it’s just a friend?

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Yes, this is the case for most folks with OLD. But you slog through the 95% to get to the 5%. Your problem is that for whatever reason, dating the 95% makes you feel bad about yourself. You feel traumatized by having to tell a woman you’re not interested in dating them. Write this down and repeat it three time a day:

”It was great meeting you, however I don’t think we’re a match. Good luck in your search!”

Works like a charm. Trauma not required. 

I do not like doing that because I know how bad it feels because it gets done to me often. No, the 95% does not even interest me in the slightest, really it does not. For years I tried to go on dates with the idea of convincing myself I may like the person, that is a very poor tactic because I am not easily convinced at all. 

Case in point, this lady does really speak quite well and that does impress me but that on its own is not enough. Basically what I do here is adopt the very same standard which get me rejected when I do very rarely try date people I do find attractive. You know what I have no issue with people choosing, more power to them I say but do not say "well you can date but you are too choosy" why should I not be choosy?

Inherently people do not like being rejected at anything, a long time ago I learnt in the corporate world you adapt and compromise because while someone may not have a certain skill they may be really good at something else related to that task or I may find they can be taught a skill. Dating quite rightly is not the same, she wants what she wants and why should she compromise with me when the guy next to me has what she wants. Why cant I adopt the same approach? 

[ZA Dater]

6 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Your first post says you have only one friend, so that’s a pretty tiny sample size to assess all of humanity. 

 

The overall attractiveness of a friend is pretty important in making someone feel good about themselves? That’s not remotely normal. It’s the shared connection that feels good with a non-romantic friend. Sure you need to be attracted to someone your going to date romantically, but why should that matter if it’s just a friend?

Do I really need lady friends? Honestly do I, every time I have been down this road it simply has not worked because of a few factors, they just do not see me as part of their social circle and truth be told all these friendships have all revolved around work and things related to that so its not as if we are going out for the sake of going out. Its not like any of these people were introducing me to their friends anyway so it was a friendship of convenience nothing more. On the VERY rare occasion I have been introduced it simply has not worked because the glue being the work is not present and it quickly becomes apparent I have nothing in common with these people, what follows is very awkward and best avoided at all costs.

I know enough guys who date with a tremendous degree of success, they experience none of the issues I do, some date more than one person at a time and in some instances are dating people younger than themselves.

It must be nice to have that choice and not have to apparently fall over my feet because I got one match and wow I must meet her one day after matching because oh wow she might be the person for me, I must be so fortunate even though I am not really interested. Exaggerated on purpose.

 

[semble]

16 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I do not like the taste and I especially do not like the way it affects people and the way some behave.  What I especially do not like either is the fact I am seen as some sort of alien because I choose not to drink, this does not happen all the time but it does happen a lot of the time. After basically cancelling the date I now get told maybe I want to go for a drink tomorrow......after mentioning I do not drink once again.

 

I didn't ask you all that other stuff, simply why you don't like alcohol. Why do you need to go on for paragraphs after answering the question I asked?

You're not an easy person to have a conversation with. Either you don't understand what the other person is trying to say, or you do, but then respond with off topic gibberish.

This is of course part of your problem.

[semble]

16 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Your first post says you have only one friend

I noticed that to. He says he only has one friend then he says "most of my friends".

Women don't like guys who lie.

That's yet another problem.

[semble]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I got one match and wow I must meet her one day after matching because oh wow she might be the person for me, I must be so fortunate even though I am not really interested. Exaggerated on purpose.

Any port in a storm.

Beggars can't be choosers.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

A penny saved is a penny earned.

 

[Weezy1973]

21 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I do not like doing that because I know how bad it feels because it gets done to me often.

It feels much worse to you than it does most people. You have very little emotional resilience. Most people understand that not being interested in a stranger you’ve had one or two dates with is normal stuff. Feeling some intense rejection is an unhealthy emotional response. 

 

24 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Why cant I adopt the same approach? 

You can. Divide into three groups. No. Yes. Maybe. Is this woman a “no” or a “maybe”? If she’s a “no” don’t bother with the date. If she’s a “maybe” or a “yes” then go on the date with the understanding that 95% of the time it’s still not going to work. And with that understanding whether you’re not interested after the first date or the woman’s not interested, as it’s the expected outcome anyways, you won’t feel intense rejection or trauma for having to reject someone. And keep doing it until you hit one of the 5%. Like your ex.

[ZA Dater]

28 minutes ago, semble said:

Any port in a storm.

Beggars can't be choosers.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

 

 

I subscribe to none of that, especially the second one.