Cant really decide

[ZA Dater]

"What do you think about wine tastings" "I prefer to meet up quite quickly rather than texting back and forth". 

One of my very few friends convinced me to keep Bumble on my phone, no idea why considering he knows lots of people who I actually do like but wont introduce me to but that is another story. 

The person who sent me the above is 40 yo, has no kids but wants kids, already an issue for me but lets gloss over that for now. Texting back and forth, she writes well which I like, she sounds quite cute on voice note BUT while there is something cute about her I already  can tell I am not going to find her very attractive in person. I really swore I would not go on dates like this again. Am I stupid to do this, I miss my ex a lot and there is someone else I really like because she does tick a lot of the boxes, not least of which the one marked "unattainable" so needless to say that alone is very attractive.

Looking past all of that I do not drink wine and do not really like wine tastings but its holiday weekend and I am feeling very lonely so do I just go and meet her, irrespective of all the above. Just feels wrong to me to lead her on for my own selfish purposes. I am also feeling very emotionally drained at the moment.

Morally I think it would be wrong to lead her on but maybe my moral line is wrong?

I am very conflicted for all the above and because I promised myself I was not going to do the same things again and have mostly decided the only real "dates" I want are experience dates, i.e. people I find amazing but who would never actually date me. For me at least I know those sort of experiences make me feel good and I am not sure seeing this lady for the wine tasting will make me feel very good at all and I'll feel even worse if I have to outright reject her. I suppose all of this is why I can never be the ONS sort of guy.

[NuevoYorko]

Please spare her.  Nobody needs to waste their time meeting somebody who has already decided that she is not attractive enough for them.   I'm sure that there is some poor miserable sot out there somewhere she'll be "good enough" for.   

[Ray_xx]

45 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

"What do you think about wine tastings" "I prefer to meet up quite quickly rather than texting back and forth". 

One of my very few friends convinced me to keep Bumble on my phone, no idea why considering he knows lots of people who I actually do like but wont introduce me to but that is another story. 

The person who sent me the above is 40 yo, has no kids but wants kids, already an issue for me but lets gloss over that for now. Texting back and forth, she writes well which I like, she sounds quite cute on voice note BUT while there is something cute about her I already  can tell I am not going to find her very attractive in person. I really swore I would not go on dates like this again. Am I stupid to do this, I miss my ex a lot and there is someone else I really like because she does tick a lot of the boxes, not least of which the one marked "unattainable" so needless to say that alone is very attractive.

Looking past all of that I do not drink wine and do not really like wine tastings but its holiday weekend and I am feeling very lonely so do I just go and meet her, irrespective of all the above. Just feels wrong to me to lead her on for my own selfish purposes. I am also feeling very emotionally drained at the moment.

Morally I think it would be wrong to lead her on but maybe my moral line is wrong?

I am very conflicted for all the above and because I promised myself I was not going to do the same things again and have mostly decided the only real "dates" I want are experience dates, i.e. people I find amazing but who would never actually date me. For me at least I know those sort of experiences make me feel good and I am not sure seeing this lady for the wine tasting will make me feel very good at all and I'll feel even worse if I have to outright reject her. I suppose all of this is why I can never be the ONS sort of guy.

All you ever seem to post is that no one is good enough for you and your issues around finding people attractive. Is it really the truth or is it how you feel about yourself? what has happened in your life to be like this?

[semble]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

BUT while there is something cute about her I already  can tell I am not going to find her very attractive in person.y.

How can you possibly know before meeting her.

Your rush to judgement is one of the many reasons you have experienced such a high failure rate.

Even if there was a chance the two of you could "click" you've largely sabotoged that already with your negative attitude.

 

[basil67]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Just feels wrong to me to lead her on for my own selfish purposes.

That's because it would be wrong and selfish.  I'd be furious if I found out a guy did a nice weekend thing with me only because he's got nothing better to do.  

[Weezy1973]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

One of my very few friends convinced me to keep Bumble on my phone,

So a whole thread, started less than a month ago about how happy you were to never do OLD again, yet here you are, back doing OLD. Not surprising at all considering it’s an integral part of your cycle.

 

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

i.e. people I find amazing but who would never actually date me. For me at least I know those sort of experiences make me feel good…

No they don’t. They never have. In the moment they may distract you from your unhappiness, and you definitely indulge in the fantasy which can also be distracting, but when you realize you can’t have it, it makes you just as unhappy as usual.

[Alpacalia]

At first, I was hesitant to start dating someone due to a few preconceived notions. But then I decided to. I wasn’t attracted for the first 1–2 dates, but then I thought… what the heck! 

I mean, how can you tell that you are not going to find her physically attractive in person? 

You have an opportunity to challenge yourself, break unhealthy patterns, and open your heart to new possibilities. Look beyond the chemistry and focus on shared values. If the other person's values do not align with yours, be willing to politely decline and stay true to yourself. Be respectful and kind to those you interact with, and learn to politely decline when you don't feel a strong connection.

The fundamental difference is that she wants children, you don't. That can't be "glossed over."

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, basil67 said:

That's because it would be wrong and selfish.  I'd be furious if I found out a guy did a nice weekend thing with me only because he's got nothing better to do.  

Thanks. I needed this perspective, I will politely decline the meet up. 

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, Ray_xx said:

All you ever seem to post is that no one is good enough for you and your issues around finding people attractive. Is it really the truth or is it how you feel about yourself? what has happened in your life to be like this?

It is the truth. The type of person I really like is that all round attractive person, the problem with that is every guy likes that sort of person and well I have no chance on that race. As to what happened, everytime I tried with people I like I just got rejected or passed over because well there was someone better. Or friendzoned.

 

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, semble said:

How can you possibly know before meeting her.

Your rush to judgement is one of the many reasons you have experienced such a high failure rate.

Even if there was a chance the two of you could "click" you've largely sabotoged that already with your negative attitude.

 

My rush to judgement mirrors what is done to me. I can tell by pictures if I find someone basically physically attractive. It's just how it is. In the past I'd go on dates like this and it would be a total waste of time and ironically I'd feel worse about going because what would sometimes happen is the person would actually like me but there would be not mutual attraction.

Hence why I pretty much decided to avoid these sort of dates.

[semble]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 I can tell by pictures if I find someone basically physically attractive.

This is one of the many obstacles you face that are completely self inflicted.

You can look at a half a dozen pictures of a person and they can look entirely different in each one.

You don't know, you can't know how you will feel about them until you meet. Besides, you said it yourself, you're very ugly. From a prior post of yours "My issue is my face, its pretty ugly, even I don't like looking at it! Conversely speaking one of the attributes I look for in a date is a pretty face!"

You need to be realistic, you won't attract a beauty unless you're loaded.

When it comes to dating, you are your own worst enemy.

Edited April 9, 2023 by semble

[ZA Dater]

32 minutes ago, semble said:

This is one of the many obstacles you face that are completely self inflicted.

You can look at a half a dozen pictures of a person and they can look entirely different in each one.

You don't know, you can't know how you will feel about them until you meet. Besides, you said it yourself, you're very ugly. From a prior post of yours "My issue is my face, its pretty ugly, even I don't like looking at it! Conversely speaking one of the attributes I look for in a date is a pretty face!"

You need to be realistic, you won't attract a beauty unless you're loaded.

When it comes to dating, you are your own worst enemy.

Not my worst enemy I just refuse to bend over backwards and overly compromise. Again my view is unless I can get what I want nothing else will do and as my fiercest critic here rightly said it would be unfair to subject anyone to that.

I'd prefer to have coffee with someone I find really attractive overall then go on a date with someone who I have to force myself to find attractive and as has happened before I then need to find a way out of a very awkward situation where she seems to find me attractive.

And yes a pretty face is vitally important.

Edited April 9, 2023 by ZA Dater

[BaileyB]

19 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

I'm sure that there is some poor miserable sot out there somewhere she'll be "good enough" for.   

With any luck, he will also enjoy wine tasting… Or, at least be open to the idea. Or, at the very least, propose another interesting suggestion…

If you’ve already decided that you are not interested in this woman, allow her the opportunity to take someone who is interested in getting to know her and having a good time. Don’t waste her time - or yours. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by BaileyB

[ZA Dater]

41 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

With any luck, he will also enjoy wine tasting… Or, at least be open to the idea. Or, at the very least, propose another interesting suggestion…

If you’ve already decided that you are not interested in this woman, allow her the opportunity to take someone who is interested in getting to know her and having a good time. Don’t waste her time - or yours. 

Agreed. Though what has amazed me is despite me saying I do not drink I was still asked "do you want to go for a drink".

I am sure she will find someone nice.

[NuevoYorko]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

My rush to judgement mirrors what is done to me.

You have no idea what is "done to you."  In fact, little is done to you by other people, as your interactions with other people are very minimal.  You don't know how people work, have no interest in understanding anything about other people, yet you persist in projecting based on your own misguided and immature notions. 

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 

I can tell by pictures if I find someone basically physically attractive. It's just how it is. In the past I'd go on dates like this and it would be a total waste of time and ironically I'd feel worse about going because what would sometimes happen is the person would actually like me but there would be not mutual attraction.

Hence why I pretty much decided to avoid these sort of dates.

That's fine.  Avoid them, by all means.  

[NuevoYorko]

46 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Agreed. Though what has amazed me is despite me saying I do not drink I was still asked "do you want to go for a drink".

I am sure she will find someone nice.

FYI I have not consumed alcohol in over 30 years.  When people invite me for a drink, I go ahead and drink non-alcoholic beverages.  So do other friends of mine who no longer (or never did) drink alcohol.   IT'S NORMAL.  

[ZA Dater]

Just now, NuevoYorko said:

You have no idea what is "done to you."  In fact, little is done to you by other people, as your interactions with other people are very minimal.  You don't know how people work, have no interest in understanding anything about other people, yet you persist in projecting based on your own misguided and immature notions. 

That's fine.  Avoid them, by all means.  

Yeah not sure just years of being rejected but I guess that is life. I spend most days interacting with people so it would be fair to say I have an idea how people work to a degree. Cant say I have met too many who sit and tell me how they compromised but I suppose I am just misguided. 

Anyway what I ended up doing was simply telling her I am unfortunately not in a space where I am keen to meet people and I mentioned again that I do not drink, both usually deal killers where I live. 

I'll say this looking through Bumble there are perhaps 2 in 20 profiles which do interest me to some degree but equally there are usually deal killers like partying, 420, drinking, church and kids so for the most part its a bit like window shopping. All of which is put into context against the people I have met who I really do like and really do enjoy spending time with so its not as if there is nobody I find interesting.

 

 

 

[ZA Dater]

19 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

FYI I have not consumed alcohol in over 30 years.  When people invite me for a drink, I go ahead and drink non-alcoholic beverages.  So do other friends of mine who no longer (or never did) drink alcohol.   IT'S NORMAL.  

Its definitely not normal here. This is a high drinking society and there are stats to prove that, almost everyone here drinks something. For what its worth I only drink water. Have to say a more confident guy being invited for a drink by someone who has spent the day wine tasting, its easy to see where such a drink would ultimately land up in a replica of another date I should absolutely not have gone on either!

[smackie9]

Maybe in your profile you can add that you are also open to making friends. So when a nice lady asks you out, she will fully know that possibility and that will let you off the hook. Finding a few female friends to hang out will will fill the gap until you do meet someone.

[Weezy1973]

13 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

Maybe in your profile you can add that you are also open to making friends.

He doesn’t actually want female friends with women he’s not attracted to. He wants to hang out with attractive women so he can fantasize about “what if”. 

[ZA Dater]

33 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

Maybe in your profile you can add that you are also open to making friends. So when a nice lady asks you out, she will fully know that possibility and that will let you off the hook. Finding a few female friends to hang out will will fill the gap until you do meet someone.

Agreed, I am going to amend my profile to say that. Arguably I make for a better friend than I do a partner. The only small problem is my record of finding people who actually want to be friends versus those who want to use me is not a very good one.

[ZA Dater]

21 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

He doesn’t actually want female friends with women he’s not attracted to. He wants to hang out with attractive women so he can fantasize about “what if”. 

Because guess what, that makes me feel good actually as I think it would most people, it is one of the very few ways I can derive some confidence.  The problem with this date proposal "I want to meet as quickly as possible" and I then ask myself why would someone want to meet the very next day, introduce alcohol into the equation and my level of discomfort increases hugely along with how likely it is I am going to be very awkward. Every single day I work on trying to feel better about myself and something like this is one step forward 20 steps back because I know its probably going to be awkward or land me in an awkward position. 

So yes when I sit with someone who is physically attractive, full of confidence, has a warm personality, easy to chat to, I feel pretty good, there is no expectation of me flirting, there is no expectation of anything else, she knows I am never going to be able to flirt anyway and I know she is unlikely to ever find me attractive but at least for that time I am getting many of the things I actually like, all the people I have met like this, sure I probably get some degree of sympathy from them but they always ask about me, there is a degree of kindness I simply do not find on OLD. It always hurts its always the "other guy" who actually gets to date them but despite that there is still far more feel good for me than going on a date like this where I am going to be expected to flirt, I am going to be expected to be interested, I am going to expected to try impress her, I am going to be expected to make moves, expected to display charm, honestly its just too much and it becomes obvious very quickly I am useless at all of those. Net result is I leave there asking myself why I went and what was I hoping to actually accomplish?

Or worse I need to somehow get myself out of awkward situations, one being where a lady arrived in a scooter to a night date (first date she did not want to be picked up), I then innocently suggested I follow her home to make sure she got home safely as the roads are poorly lit at night.

Needless to say this gesture was totally misinterpreted by her and I had to get myself out of an awkward situation, again this was someone I did not find attractive. 

When I sit with people who wont ever date me I can just be me and you know what because they have all the choice imaginable their perspectives are also quite interesting too.

[semble]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Agreed. Though what has amazed me is despite me saying I do not drink I was still asked "do you want to go for a drink".

But you DO drink. EVERYBODY drinks or they'd be dead.

Rather than being offputting and saying "No I don't want to go for a drink, I don't drink!" you could say "Sure, lets go". Then order a cranberry with seltzer or something like that.

Think outside the box. Turn a negative experience into a positive one and stop shooting yourself in the foot all the time and complaining it's everyone else's fault you're still single after over a decade of dating failures.

 

[semble]

14 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

The problem with this date proposal "I want to meet as quickly as possible" and I then ask myself why would someone want to meet the very next day, introduce alcohol into the equation and my level of discomfort increases hugely along with how likely it is I am going to be very awkward.

This post highlights your problem. You finally get a live one. You decide based on a photo you're not attracted. To her credit, she doesn't want to waste time, and suggests meeting the next day. And yes, many people are nervous meeting someone for the first time, a bit of alcohol can result in a loss of inhibitions and can create a relaxed atmosphere. To you these are all reasons not to take things further, and write yet another thread about how difficult dating is.

That's another thing, you have probably chosen the wrong hill to die on with this whole "I don't drink alcohol" position you have taken. I've had and heart of therapists suggesting to their clients to have a drink now and again to relax them a bit. I know you're reading this and thinking "I'd never do that". You'd never do a lot of things. You're one of the most rigid, inflexible and closeminded individuals I've ever seen who hopes things will change, without making any modifications to their own behavior and thought patterns. You know the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again yet expecting different results.

 

 

 

 

 

[NuevoYorko]

1 hour ago, smackie9 said:

Maybe in your profile you can add that you are also open to making friends. 

But this is very much not the case.  There is no place in OP's world where "woman" and "friend" would ever intersect.