Emotional affair not a REAL affair in his eyes - still hurting over "it was nothing"

[Trying to move on]

What do you do or say to a spouse who doesn’t think they were “really” wrong in confiding deep dark secrets to another woman and engaging in sexual flirting and online sex talk simply because there was no type of physical touching? How do I respond to the statement that because there was no sex of any kind it’s not technically an “affair” and that I’m too caught up in playing the victim in refusing to “get over it”.

 

It’s been one year this week that I endured the unbelievable pain of discovering my husband was engaged in an emotional affair with a co-worker and had been frequenting online dating sites looking for married but bored females. While the discovery of the dating and cheating services came as a complete surprise, I had begun to suspect something was up with his co-worker after finding a few flirty emails and confronted him about 6 weeks before finally discovering the truth. At that time, he was able to convince me that I was completely over-reacting to the words and reading way to much into them but that since it bothered me, and since he and his co-worker no longer worked together (my husband had recently transferred to a different location), he would tell her to stop with the emails and phone calls. Turns out he only told her to stop emailing him on the account I had the password to and they continued to communicate until the day I discovered his hotmail account and the other accounts with the dating / cheating services. The fact that he continued to keep up this relationship with the co-worker, despite watching me scream and cry at him over it, is one of the most devastating parts of all of this for me. In my mind, he chose her feelings over mine with the full knowledge I would be devastated if I knew the truth. I was completely blind-sided by these discoveries since I had always firmly believed it would never happen to us given his frequent and ongoing disapproval towards any of our family or friends who had been affected by affairs. The words in those emails to his co-worker of how unhappy he was and how he didn’t love me and how terrible our marriage was and how he was now stuck in a loveless relationship for the sake of our son and the baby on the way (I had just conceived our second son when this EA began) together with how much he missed her and wanted to see her and how he was nothing but putty in her hands continue to haunt me – they won’t stop replaying in my head. Apparently she in turn confided in him all of the details of her own sad and loveless marriage. By my husbands account, they had a 6 month pity party with each other consisting of emails, phone calls, an occasional token gift and a few visits to the local coffee shop --- he insists there was nothing physical and that all he really wanted was to feel special and important and cared about… the typical responses it seems. In his mind, crossing the line into a PA was immoral and that although he knew at the time what he was doing was wrong (since he deliberately took steps to hide it from me) he never thought of it as an affair. To this day, he still firmly believes that he didn’t do anything “REALLY wrong” just “wrong”. While the online dating / cheating stuff bothers me, it’s the EA that broke my heart. The idea he wanted to look at a strange pair of plastic ***’s doesn’t seem to hurt as much as the idea that he felt closer to this co-worker than he did to me. I could go on for pages about my own painful details but it seems my story has been retold in different ways time and again on these boards.

 

I’m now stuck in this place where I’m so ready to try and let go of these words and these memories but seem unable to do so. I recognize that what happened is done – there is absolutely nothing I can do to erase the things he said or did. There is nothing I can do to turn back time and fulfill the needs he had then. I’m pretty sure there is much more to the story than I’ve heard but I’ve grown weary of attempts to uncover it all. And I’ve come to believe the details don’t really matter anymore. If we’re trying to focus on saving our marriage then from this point forward we need to focus on creating a life where neither of us ever has the desire to look anywhere else to have their needs met. Dwelling on what may or may not have happened only seems to serve to prolong being stuck in the hurt.

 

As far as he’s concerned, our life is great now and he says he’s happier than he has been in years. My attempts to try and understand what he was going through at the time are met with half-hearted responses of “you were a ***** to me”and “it was fun and I didn’t think it was really wrong”. He tells me I can ask him anything I want but whenever I do it’s met with “you have to stop focusing on this” and “it was nothing so why are you not letting it go”. I’m at the point where I’m almost afraid to bring it up for fear of having my feelings once again rejected but I know it can’t be left unresolved. I have spent countless hours thinking about each of our emotional needs and what we need to do to meet them. How do I help him understand that from my perspective, what he did was an affair and that we need to go through all of the stages of recovery if we hope to come out of it with a better marriage. Since he’s convinced it wasn’t so terrible a deed as to end our marriage, why am I still stuck in this place of questioning whether he understands how much he hurt me and questioning myself about whether he believes he made the right decision staying with me? I guess I’m just looking for advice on whether this is a common response from someone who has had an EA and whether I really am hanging on to the hurt as a way of keeping an “out” available to myself in the event we don’t make it – something that scares me since it seems so much like a self-fulfilling prophecy. I’m really just at a loss as to how to tell him my anxieties and fears without making him feel punished and somehow that once again he’s letting me down.

[d.s.]

First of all, I am really sorry you have to go through this. In my humble opinion, your husband seems like an as*hole.

 

Many people try to separate physical cheating from emotionaly cheating. In the end, they are both cheating! Although, many try to escape it by stating that emotional cheating is no as severe as physical cheating. I would actually say that emotional cheating is worse because it becomes more like an addiction. It seems like your husband knows that what he did is wrong but is trying to escape to his "fantasy" land where he is always right and he is the victim in all of this. In his mind, the only reason he had to go elsewhere for emotional support was because you were not there for him.

 

This extended beyond motional cheating! He went to a coffee shop to meet the person; I am guessing he never told you that at the time ehn? I know without a doubt that everyone will definately agree that he cheated on you. The problem here is making sure he doesn't continue. I am assuming that the only realistic way is to get him to realize the gravity of the problem. This, n your opinion cannot be achieved because he keeps stating he did nothing wrong. What do you think would happen if you asked him how he would feel if you went elsewhere for emotional support? (He might just say fine!- but inside he probably doesn't feel that way)

 

It seems like you still want to preserve your marriage. I am afraid that you need to somehow convince your husband to see a counselor. Maybe you can go together, making it seem like you have a problem rather than him. Discuss the problem with your counselor in advance so that he is aware of the reasons you are going-this way your husband will not really be aware as to why he is there.

 

Other than that I am not really sure what to say! Just try not to burden yourself too much because you seem to be hurting yourself with all this thinking.

 

HTH

 

d.s.

[whichwayisup]

Until he's willing to own up to what he did, which I see he thinks he hasn't done wrong - There isn't much more you can do except MAKE him understand what his actions have done to you and the marriage.

 

Please read Owl's thread. I think it will show some insight and maybe you could print it off and show your husband, let him read it. Maybe then he'll understand what he did to you.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t49539/

 

Hope that helps.

[jonesgirly]

oh my freaking god! You're in the EXACT same situation I am in. Right down to the little details of meeting at a coffee house a couple of times! You should read and compare my story. I don't know how to link to it, but just look click on my user name and read all threads started by me.

 

My heart sunk when I read how you felt. I absolutely know the feelings - the fact that they don't really feel they did "anything wrong" because it "wasn't physical" (or as my H says, "I didn't have SEX with her!). I guess he thinks its okay that he WANTED to, but didn't!

 

It does seem as though you're stuck somewhere. I think partial blame lies with your husbands lack of stepping up and accepting responsibility. I also see the diminished self-esteem you have because of his behavior. I understand. And it hurts like he11 everytime he dismisses your hurt feelings by turning it around and making it "your" problem. What gutless wonders they are!

 

Some of the very best advice I've gotten here was to start focusing on myself. Do what YOU want to do - do things that make YOU happy. Try (I know its hard) to stop focusing on your dysfunctional relationship and concentrate more on whats GOOD in your life. I just finished getting 10K in new "teeth" (veneers, etc.) to make myself look as good as I can (long overdue - not a spontanteous thing). I lost 15lbs as a result of this rather recent traumatic discovery about my H, and frankly, look hotter than ever! (I don't forget that I'm old though )

 

It IS tough to stop mourning the loss of what you had. An EA is MUCH more difficult to live with than a "physical" affair in the sense that you cannot compete with your spouses' heart. I know this all too well. I wonder how your husband would feel if you behaved in the exact same way he did?

 

And I totally understand your feelings about how he's all fine and dandy, and you're still back at "devastated." Thats understandable. I know how you feel, and want you to know that you are NOT ALONE, and you are absolutely JUSTIFIED in the way you feel!

 

I will look for your posts in the future. I wish you happy thoughts.

[Trying to move on]

Thanks D.S. and Whichway -- it's nice to be validated in what I'm feeling and that seems to be the crux of it all ... I seem to be stuck in the hurt of knowing that my feelings just don't SEEM to matter to him. They didn't matter then which is why he continued with the co-worker (deep underground) despite seeing how upset it made me - and they don't seem to matter now since he never asks if I'm OK with everything and if there is anything about it I want to talk about.

 

I think in some ways he wants to be supportive (since he regularly senses and questions my unhappiness) but he's unsure how to do it. He knows that I still think about the EA almost daily and says I just need to tell him what to do but these seem to be the words he uses to appease me because he doesn't make great efforts at giving me the affection and reassurance he knows I need. So long as I never bring up anything negative, we're doing just fine. I've become the care-taker of our marriage and it's a role I know I can't keep up indefinately. In my own "fantasy" world, I'm longing for him to come to me and tell me how glad he is I took the chance on us after being so hurt. I'm struggling with communicating how hurt I am over this without becoming a droning victim in his eyes. Yes, he can be insensitive and yes, D.S., sometimes he acts like a real as*hole in clamming up and pulling the defensive crap out of his pocket. Often, I get the pout and the sigh about how he's once again letting me down ... which only serves to clam me up for fear of pushing him away again. What a crappy cycle we've gotten ourselves into.

 

It's funny you mention the retaliatory affair D.S because we have had conversations about how if I ever did anything like that to him, he wouldn't be able to forgive me. Ironic, but it seems to come back to the idea for him that an EA isn't really an affair or something that warrants the attention that a PA would.

 

I know I'm running around in circles on this and have honestly come (well almost) to a place where I can live with the idea that he did what he did - so long as I'm comfortable he's confident he made the right choice in staying with me. I guess this will be the subject of our dinner tomorrow night. I will also once again bring up the idea of counselling - it's something we've talked about in the past and he has said he would go if that's something I think is important. Since we don't seem to be progressing (in the sense that I'm still unhappy and insecure about our relationship), it's probably time to bring in the hired help.

 

 

I've just started to read through the link to Owl's post and see so much of my own situation in it --- the only differences at first glance seem to be Owl's wife's committment to making it right through her actions. I guess that should be the subject of next Saturday's dinner at our house!

 

Thanks again for your responses, they help frame the real issue(s) for me and help me sort all these crazy thoughts in my head.

[whichwayisup]

You're welcome.

 

Ask him how he would feel if you started confiding in another man. Allowing your feelings to grow and you needing to talk to this OM. My best guess is he wouldn't be too happy about it...But - There would be NO SEX, so therefore it's not an affair...I do believe he would be jealous and hurt by it.

 

Keep posting and hope all goes well at that dinner.

[jonesgirly]

I know I'm running around in circles on this and have honestly come (well almost) to a place where I can live with the idea that he did what he did - so long as I'm comfortable he's confident he made the right choice in staying with me.

 

Girl - Don't you think that YOU should also have a say in the continuance of your marriage? Of Course you do! And don't forget - YOU didn't cheat on him, HE cheated on YOU! You should (but probably don't right now) feel like the decision to stay in the marriage is AT LEAST 50% YOURS!

 

Please Please don't feel like your husband is the "prize" here, to be "won" by either you or the other person. YOU are a worthy contender here, and shouldn't feel like you're "grateful" he chose you. HE should at least recognize that his actions could have resulted in your leaving him! Regardless of whether or not he was "happy" in the marriage, there is no excuse (other than selfish needs) for his behavior.

[Aquarius Guy]

Dear Moving On,

 

Boundaries takes into accoutn teh feelings of each person. You should communicate your desires for limits, and you should listen to his. Golden Rule. Can you point out any extras you are doin for him, and you are asking for some extra tight boundaries on Othrr Women?

 

Hers is a link toe some books and videos on Boundaries. I found them helpful.

 

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2750915&an=0&page=0#2750915

 

Blessings

[Trying to move on]

Thanks again folks for the responses --

 

jonesgirly, first off - GO BLUE (!) and secondly thanks for such a succinct point in suggesting I need to let go of the idea I must compete with what he had with these women in order to win him over. Part of my anxiety stems from the fact that he says he needed the flirting and the 'romance' from the EA but he almost seems uncomfortable doing this with me...or maybe he's just not sure what he does do will be the "right" thing I'm looking for. Sorry you've been there but glad you seem to be coming through it ...

 

Reading through some of the other threads on this forum confirms what you have all suggested in taking care of myself and working on doing the things I need to do to feel good about myself -- bought the treadmill, dropping the weight, dying the hair once again (and I too haven't forgotten I'm too quickly approaching the number 40!).

 

Aquarius - thanks for the link and the boundaries comment ... I intend to order, read and digest it all before the conversation on what's negotiable and what's not in this marriage.

 

Whichway -- you're right about his feelings of being hurt at the idea of me wanting someone else and in that I NEED to find a way to MAKE him understand why I'm feeling the way I do...used up lots of paper printing off Owl's story!

 

I'll keep you posted on the outcome of dinner (now just have to figure out what to make and whether to lace it with truth serum!)

 

Thanks again to all of you -- it really does feel better knowing folks come through the end of this tunnel to a better place.

[whichwayisup]

I think once he actually see's things and understands from your point of view his actions will change. Not only say it but actually believe it, ya know?

 

Yup, OWL is so wise...(I run and hide now as OWL hates to be called wise! LOL!)

 

Keep posting and try to focus on some good things in the marriage. Plan a fun night out and just keep it light - Shoot pool or go to a sports game, but have FUN, laugh and be silly! Maybe you both need that right now.

[Owl]

(Owl steps out of 'lurk mode', ears prickling, and begins looking around for WWIU..."Did I hear someone use the word's Owl and Wise in the same sentence again?!?!)

 

Well I do hope that my story can provide you with some ideas on how to proceed, as well as some information that you can use to PERHAPS educate your husband. I'd suggest that you do an online search using the words "emotional affair". Also, I've been told that there is an excellent article in the Decemeber issue of Marie Claire that outlines an emotional affair very well. I'd suggest that you do some research, and print out a couple of the better (preferably shorter) articles that you could ask your H to read. Then, just for fun...take a look over on the marriagebuilders site and look for some of the letters that Dr Harley has there as examples...take one that clearly outlines an emotional affair (hopefully one similar to what your H had)...and substitute YOUR name in for the person who had the EA. Then hand that to your H, ask him to read it, and ask him how it would make him feel if it were true. THAT tends to drive the point home sometimes.

 

Is your H still in contact with OW in anyway at all? Your H never went through withdrawl, because contact never truly took place from what I could see. One other thing...I'd suggest telling your H that while HE may not have a problem with what happened, YOU do...and that means it's still a problem in your marriage, and that you BOTH have to work through fixing the problem...PERIOD.

 

He's not going to like that...you see, he's avoiding taking responsibility for his horrible actions, and has done so pretty successfully for the last year. I'd suggest that you start some marriage counseling, with a PRO marriage style counselor, and work it out. Don't let your H tell you no...tell him that if he truly loves you and wants to see you BOTH happy in this marriage, then he's got to take the steps needed to make that happen.

 

I hope that helps...take a look at some of the other web forums out there too (marriagebuilders is a good one) that can also give you some good perspective and advice.

 

WWIU- Watch the wise comments lady...you KNOW better!! LOL...if I were so wise, would I STILL be hanging around lurking on these boards? LOL

[whichwayisup]

Owl. So what if you're hanging and lurking around...You give good advice and honestly between you, Dazed and Thumbs, each of you have quietly helped me in my life more than you'd ever know. Thanks for that! So, from where I sit that's why I call ya WISE...Holy cow, you three are the 3 wise men! God, I crack myself up...

 

Trying to move on, I think once you can get him to see things through your eyes, make him feel that pain, then he'll get it and maybe he'll give you the respect and validation you need to hear/feel from him.

 

Keep posting and hang in there.

[jonesgirly]

So...........how did the dinner go?

 

I've read your story about six times today and each time I find something else that matches mine exactly. Your husbands ability to pull out the "defensive crap" and the pity-punch "oh I've let you down again" sounds exactly like mine. I seriously started to wonder if this was his only reaction to any conversation. I've grown so tired of him portraying the "victim" its nauseating. I've tried many times to express my feeling that this kind of reaction seems like an "escape" or an "excuse" from him not to try and see the other side of things. Mine, like yours, was also adament in stating that if "I" had done what "he" had done, there would be little chance for forgiveness.

 

I've tried many different ways to get him to understand the devastation I feel. And its not even that I need him to understand that (because I think he does but won't really admit it), but rather to ACT like he is genuinely remorseful and sincere in his attempt to rebuild our relationship.

 

That is where you might be stuck too. Your husbands comment that "you were a bi***" is pretty telling about where he lays the blame here. Those kinds of statements really cut at your heart when you've already been stabbed with the actual affair already!

 

Its been just three months for me, so I am by no means an expert here. But because our husbands seem so similar, I can't help but comment. I know that when I've been a raving lunatic it has done no good. But I've recently gained some insight into my situation. My husband seems to expect this "wound" (he inflicted) to be healed on HIS terms. Because it seems like there is no room for any of my emotions, he has decided our life is just dandy too!

 

Here is what I've told him:

I have decided that in order for me to protect myself, I am going to just ignore the whole thing for a while. I will no longer have "sad" times or "need" anything from him, as it is met with a "get over it" attitude. My heart keeps getting crushed and I'm tired of it. I'm sick of being the "wife in a puddle" (as I call it). His words have hurt me deeply, and his lack of understanding and/or compassion has done far more damage than the EA by itself. I'm tired of feeling this way, and because I cannot trust him with MY feelings, I will not be bringing it up for discussion. Its time for me to get back into my life, and with or without him, that is going to happen. I will no longer rely on my husband to be a trusted friend and partner, as he appears to be incapable of doing his part. I will not set myself up for further heartbreak from him by talking about my "feelings", only to have him say something mean or simply walk away. No more.

 

And I think that this revelation made an impact. Its all true, so I'm not just singing a song here - I really AM tired of his BS and deserve better. So do you.

 

So..........tell us all about your dinner!

[Tristram]

I dont know if this will help or not. But I basically did not just say my emotions. I let them out completly. She could actually see how she has affected me by what she has done. I wont go into complete detail but the whole "by her terms" thing went away pretty quick. I guess you just have to show him you no longer give a F*** about your marriage because of what he did. Guilt trip him so to speak. Good luck with things.

[Trying to move on]

Hi jonesgirly, owl, whichway et al...

 

No time to type today but I've taken all of your advice to heart and dinner went better than I could have imagined ...

 

We were able finally able to talk for more than 10 minutes without one of us becoming frustrated and shutting down and I THINK we're starting to come to a resolution about what we need to do together to make it better (for me at this point since he still insists he's never felt closer to me or better about himself)

 

Hang in there jonesgirly --- I promise to type all the details of our discussion and his responses tomorrow ---- just no time today