My husband and I are having such a hard time with his father's death

[princessaurora]

My husband's father got double pneumonia a little over a month ago and he ended up in the hospital.They also discovered a fungus in his lungs and treated him for that as well.  After a few weeks he was improving and got moved to skilled nursing for a little physical therapy to help him walk again. My husband was visiting with him a few days before his scheduled release and he asked him to walk with him to the bathroom. He got there fine but couldn't get up off the toilet afterwards. It took three nurses as well as my husband to get him back into the bed and after that it only went downhill. He started losing his appetite, saying he just wanted to die because he felt helpless and a burden. We kept telling him he wasn't and loved him very much, that it was only temporarily he would feel that bad, but he continued to decline. His lab work kept getting grimmer with his kidneys failing and then he flat out refused to eat and drink and started sleeping almost nonstop. The doctors basically said they didn't know why that happened but they had done everything they could and it was clear he was never going to get better. His gf of 17 years believes he gave up once he realized he would never be able to live life as he knew it again and no longer had a will to live. He started turning yellow and his liver enzymes increased indicating failure as well. He also stopped being able tor respond to verbal stimuli completely. That's when we made the decision to move him to hospice so he could live out the rest of his time in a more peaceful setting. By then he was asleep all the time and passed away less than 24 hours after we moved him there.

I don't understand how he went from almost leaving the hospital to dying and neither does my husband. For weeks they told us, there was nothing fatal going on and he just needed to be treated for the pneumonia and then would be released. My husband feels guilty because he thinks helping him to the bathroom that night may have been too much for him and caused him to eventually die. I told my husband that would not cause multiple organ failure so get that out of his head. The doctors didn't even update us that often. I found out from looking on his portal he had sepsis shortly before his death, something that was never disclosed. I know we'll probably never really know what happened but I don't want my husband to blame himself because I don't see that causing his death. He was 84 years old and had alot of comorbidities (diabetes, emphysema, afib, non alcohol-related cirhossis). However before he got pneumonia, he was doing well. He did wait too long to go to the doctor, though. We all thought it was the flu because it was running rampant during that time and he said his fever had broken and he was feeling much better. I wonder if it started off as covid and the test was negative by the time the hospital gave it to him.

I'm just really upset because we loved him so much and so did our kids. Also, it is tearing me apart knowing my husband thinks he'd still be here if he hadn't let him go to the bathroom that night.  How do I help him understand he did not cause his father's death? 

[Alpacalia]

I extend my deepest sympathies for your loss.

Losing a loved one is an incredibly challenging experience, and it is natural to feel overwhelmed and confused while trying to make sense of what happened. 

His father's death isn't his fault. While it's understandable that he may feel this way, there is little chance that this has had a substantial impact on his health. His father's health was precarious even before he was admitted to the hospital. The desire to understand what happened is natural, but sometimes there is no clear explanation. There may have been ambiguity on the medical team's part, and the situation may have changed abruptly, leaving little time for communication.

The best medical care cannot always save someone in such a fragile condition. His feelings of guilt needs to be dealt with in his own time, in his own way, in recognition that he did everything he could to help his father, and that his actions could not have caused his father's death.

Continue to offer your support and love to your husband during this difficult time. Encourage him to take care of himself and to seek help if he needs it. Together, you can work through this challenging experience and find ways to honor your loved one's memory.

[ShyViolet]

If your husband can't stop thinking that him walking his father to the bathroom caused his death, which is obviously a very irrational thought, then he should go to a professional therapist.  Cognitive behavioral therapy would be good for something like this.

[NuevoYorko]

As many as 30% of patients who are hospitalized with pneumonia die from it.  The percentage is extremely skewed towards senior patients.  

You can find a lot of information about this if you feel like looking.  Maybe it would help your husband to understand this.  On the other hand, maybe the last thing he needs is to be thinking about pneumonia / hospitals / death right now.  I don't know.

Your FIL already surpassed the average life span of a male (in the US),  which is about 77 years of age.   I know this does nothing to ease the pain of loss, but my point is that your own loss was clearly not precipitated by a single event like the bathroom visit.

[princessaurora]

On 2/28/2023 at 12:57 PM, ShyViolet said:

If your husband can't stop thinking that him walking his father to the bathroom caused his death, which is obviously a very irrational thought, then he should go to a professional therapist.  Cognitive behavioral therapy would be good for something like this.

We do have a therapist already. Hopefully we can discuss that at the next session. It's just that he went from doing really well to a major decline right after that bathroom trip so my husband can't help wonder if thataffected it. 

[princessaurora]

On 2/28/2023 at 2:15 PM, NuevoYorko said:

As many as 30% of patients who are hospitalized with pneumonia die from it.  The percentage is extremely skewed towards senior patients.  

You can find a lot of information about this if you feel like looking.  Maybe it would help your husband to understand this.  On the other hand, maybe the last thing he needs is to be thinking about pneumonia / hospitals / death right now.  I don't know.

Your FIL already surpassed the average life span of a male (in the US),  which is about 77 years of age.   I know this does nothing to ease the pain of loss, but my point is that your own loss was clearly not precipitated by a single event like the bathroom visit.

I know alot of older people succumb to pneumonia but he was doing so well. They even said the pneumonia was gone and we just had to get him walking again. That's why we don't understand what happened and it makes it so hard to accept. 

Edited March 2, 2023 by princessaurora
spelling

[Alpacalia]

Even after the pneumonia has cleared, the body can be weakened and susceptible to other health issues (underlying infections, cardiovascular events, or other complications).

Your FIL was 84 years old with several comorbidities, medical conditions that coexist with each other. 

It takes a while to recover from pneumonia, even after it has cleared up. So it may seem like it has resolved itself, but most likely didn't or there were complications that were not immediately apparent.

Someone's death does not become less meaningful or inevitable because they have comorbidities.

I have a family member who lost her brother (my cousin) in a car accident when he was a young age. For years, she sought explanations for why it happened, how it could have been prevented, and how he was not to blame.

There is a tendency in us to do this, but it does not change the outcome.

[BaileyB]

I’m not a physician, but he had not one, but two, significant infections AND he was an 84 year old man with significant comorbidities.

As has been said, pneumonia is very serious for older individuals.  A fungal infection can be quite serious - I know of a healthy young man who died of a fungal infection in his thirties. And once an infection has gone septic, the morbidity is quite high. Again, my cousin is in his fifties and he had sepsis in the fall - he was in ICU and he almost died. He was very fortunate to survive and he is still trying to recover.

It’s unfortunate that the physicians were not able to talk with you about the cause of death because these are serious infections and sepsis has a high morbidity. I know of one friend who was struggling to accept the death of a loved one - she felt guilt because she had consented to surgery (her loved one died during the surgery and she felt he would still be alive if he did not have the surgery). She made an appointment with the individual’s physician who explained the cause of death and helped her to understand what happened post-mortem.

Grief is by its very nature irrational at times, I’m sorry to hear that your husband is really struggling with his grief. The fact that it happened so quickly is obviously shocking. I too believe that he likely chose to let go… These kinds of things are difficult to accept and make it that much more complicated when we grieve. 

I would suggest that grief counselling would be a good suggestion for your husband - perhaps you could go together when he is ready. We did some family grief counselling after the loss of my mom and it helped immensely. Otherwise, I would say give him time and be kind to each other. Best wishes. 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by BaileyB

[princessaurora]

3 hours ago, BaileyB said:

I’m not a physician, but he had not one, but two, significant infections AND he was an 84 year old man with significant comorbidities.

As has been said, pneumonia is very serious for older individuals.  A fungal infection can be quite serious - I know of a healthy young man who died of a fungal infection in his thirties. And once an infection has gone septic, the morbidity is quite high. Again, my cousin is in his fifties and he had sepsis in the fall - he was in ICU and he almost died. He was very fortunate to survive and he is still trying to recover.

It’s unfortunate that the physicians were not able to talk with you about the cause of death because these are serious infections and sepsis has a high morbidity. I know of one friend who was struggling to accept the death of a loved one - she felt guilt because she had consented to surgery (her loved one died during the surgery and she felt he would still be alive if he did not have the surgery). She made an appointment with the individual’s physician who explained the cause of death and helped her to understand what happened post-mortem.

Grief is by its very nature irrational at times, I’m sorry to hear that your husband is really struggling with his grief. The fact that it happened so quickly is obviously shocking. I too believe that he likely chose to let go… These kinds of things are difficult to accept and make it that much more complicated when we grieve. 

I would suggest that grief counselling would be a good suggestion for your husband - perhaps you could go together when he is ready. We did some family grief counselling after the loss of my mom and it helped immensely. Otherwise, I would say give him time and be kind to each other. Best wishes. 

 

One thing that totally blows my mind is he was never even admitted to ICU. They said his pneumonia was under control and he only needed to be in a regular room so he could receive antibiotics. Not once did they put him in ICU, not even when his kidneys started failing. That just doesn't make sense to me. I hate to say it, but I guess at his advanced age, they didn;t care that much. He was not a priority for them. He had seven different doctors and none of them could explain why he didn't recover. 

[glows]

I’m so sorry for your family’s loss and his passing. How frustrating to not have all the answers. 

[justwhoiam]

On 2/26/2023 at 10:07 PM, princessaurora said:

How do I help him understand he did not cause his father's death? 

You can't fight conjecture with other conjecture, I guess. So start from facts. Gather his father's medical record(s) from the hospital. See what they wrote when he got admitted. If he was diagnosed with sepsis and it got cured during his hospitalization, but had sepsis as the cause of death, that means he had a double case of sepsis. The chances to survive that in such a close span of time would have been very very slim. He would have needed a miracle, so to speak.

Tell your husband that the love his father received having family around - which your husband contributed to - extended his father's life. Had he been alone and in some old people's home, he would have long gone, because sepsis are frequent there.

Some man I knew in an old people's home got one leg amputated because of sepsis, and he died anyway in less than 6 months.