RuralProblems Posted November 4, 2005 Posted November 4, 2005 had suspected infidelity for some time, but now I'm pretty sure. One morning, she got very dressed up and left at about 10:00 to get groceries and a couple of other things in town (10 miles away). Came home about 2:30. I asked if she drove to another town 30 miles away (which she had done an awful lot lately). She said yes, to see a friend that needed to see her, then added that it was a "she" after a nervous pause. She left with lipstick on, returned with it mostly missing. She was in a unusually good mood (more on that later). I could tell she was lying (we've been married 15+ years). I was so sure about this one, that I retrieved her underwear, ordered CheckMate (semen detection), and they tested positive. We hadn't had sex in quite a while (long story, but her attitude with the kids makes me think of Andrea Yates who drowned her kids in the tub, and I don't want to add any more kids into this mix - she doesn't have the patience for them). We timed sex to her cycle, and missed the month previous due to illness, so the semen in the underwear couldn't have been mine. The lack of frequency could also be summed up in the line from a country song "It's Hard To Kiss The Lips At Night That Chew Your Ass Out All Day Long". Enough on that. I work from home, so she leaves to do her thing I think. She's depressed. She's a "stay at home mom" (kids in school, but she really watches TV most of the day - I do at least 1/2 the cleaning and laundry), rural town, which maybe doesn't set well with her though she claims she'd never move back to the city. I tried to get her to seek help, but she claims no problem, and is pissed for weeks everytime I mention it. Another day, 2 weeks later, she claimed to be doing some work for a charity. Same thing as before (dressed up, lipstick). She had visited that faraway town (legitimately this time for the charity thing), but it took longer than it should have. Again, underwear positive. I'm leaving out an awful lot so as to not make a really long post. I've been ready to separate for some time, but I just can't take the chance of putting the kids in her hands. This is the last straw, but I'll have to fight for the kids. I know that there are those who are against the whole underwear testing thing, but given the distance, and the fact that I'm unlikely to catch her in the act, I didn't see much choice. I don't know whether to trust the CheckMate test, so I'm not quite ready to confront her (she would go absolutely ballistic). I feel that I need proof. I'm going to use GPS (I'm a tech buff) to figure out where she's going next time. I didn't find anything in the e-mail, phone records, cell phone. She probably knows I'd catch her that way. Here's the question - do I need to know who it is, or should I just go ahead and get the undies tested for DNA? If I need to know who, any suggestions as to how to find out? I live in a rural area, and there aren't any PI's in the area that I'm aware of. Thanks very much for bearing with me... I stumbled onto this forum and read a lot of good info.
LucreziaBorgia Posted November 4, 2005 Posted November 4, 2005 I've been ready to separate for some time Do you want to expose this affair to save your marriage, or are you planning on separating/divorcing anyway and using this affair as a way to swing custody in your favor? Either way, you'll need to bust this open first. First and foremost - stop questioning her. She will become increasingly paranoid and get better at covering her tracks. Simply drop the matter, while you gather up evidence behind her back. You will also want to seriously get some legal advice and have a divorce lawyer available as well - you never know whether or not her affair is an exit affair or not. Once you have something concrete to confront her with, handing it to her along with the already-drawn-up divorce papers sends a strong message: the affair stops and we go to marriage counseling (if you want to save your marriage, that is - she probably she could benefit from IC too), or I divorce you - period. If you find out who it is, you stand a much greater chance of it ending since she can't hide him away. If he is married or involved, exposing to his SO will stop things on his end. Since you can't get a PI there, the GPS sounds pretty good. I would also suggest a digital voice activated recording device for her vehicle. Perhaps you have a friend who can do some spying for you to see where she goes and maybe grab some pics of a vehicle/person? I would set aside the DNA testing for now. Best to find the man before pegging the DNA. I have a feeling once you peg this, you won't need a DNA test.
Author RuralProblems Posted November 4, 2005 Author Posted November 4, 2005 Thanks for the advice. Yeah, I'm trying to be a lot lower key now that I've figured out what's going on. I don't really have any plans to save the marriage. I'm old-fashioned enough that this affair would have "finished it" anyways. I may have the test to verify semen done anyways (if I'm totally off base, which I don't think I am, it'd save my blood pressure ) Funny thing is, she used to say "If you had an affair, I'd kill you" quite often, but hasn't said that in many months. Oh - one detail I left out - she thinks I'm having an affair, I'm pretty sure (I've seen THAT thread plenty while reading the other messages)... Most of my friends up here are retired, but there's only one I can trust. That's a very good suggestion. She doesn't really know him on sight, even.
whichwayisup Posted November 4, 2005 Posted November 4, 2005 Do you love her though? I mean, old fashioned or not, if she came clean with you and wanted to work things out, would you? Or is it over in your heart and mind. Whatever you decide, it won't be easy. Keep posting and good luck.
Author RuralProblems Posted November 5, 2005 Author Posted November 5, 2005 Do you love her though? I mean, old fashioned or not, if she came clean with you and wanted to work things out, would you? Or is it over in your heart and mind. Whatever you decide, it won't be easy. Keep posting and good luck. No, I think the love went away when a) I looked at her and all I could see was someone bitching at me or the kids about something she did herself (such as drop a bowl of food), and b) she would more and more feel absolutely no guilt about sitting on her tukus (sp?) watching TV or talking on the phone while I was busting my own personal tukus for the family. I CANNOT sit while someone else is working (except maybe in a restaurant). The affair is just the last straw. In like Flynn (hope I remembered that right). No, I'm not afraid to confront her, but I know that my best bet (given my end game, divorce, with me retaining custody) is to have the goods on her. I am not interested in hearing why, I'm not interested in reconciliation. Maybe that makes me a total a-hole, but I've about had it after the last 9 years (ever since the first kid arrived, she's a completely different beast - good choice of words, that). Ideally I need something that can be used to get a quick settlement - I'm planning on offering our new car and 80k to get her on her feet (generous, ain't I). I'm betting she takes it if I have her cornered. I don't want a court battle. I'm already videotaping a stroll around the house whenever she's gone to prove that she doesn't carry her load. Given the courts and custody going to the father, I know that I have to be prepared with the best case I can, and that's what I'm developing, and seeking advice about in this forum. A lawyer definitely comes into play soon, though
whichwayisup Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 Ok, was just checking to see if there were any feelings of love left. I hope things get settled out of court, for your children's sake. And yes, definately talk to lawyer about this. Even consider hiring a PI to follow her. Good luck, keep posting/venting.
Aquarius Guy Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 Information is power. Confronting is not always positive for the outcome. Here is a link to some ideas to avoid: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=032491;p=1#000007 Here are a few OK Tactics: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=032482#000006 Post Again if you still want more feedback
Author RuralProblems Posted November 5, 2005 Author Posted November 5, 2005 Information is power. Confronting is not always positive for the outcome. Here is a link to some ideas to avoid: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=032491;p=1#000007 Here are a few OK Tactics: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=032482#000006 Post Again if you still want more feedback Great links! They're bookmarked (and considered)...
Author RuralProblems Posted November 5, 2005 Author Posted November 5, 2005 Oh, and by the way... She really likes getting away from the kids. She went to a thing in D.C. for 3 days, and really seemed to enjoy herself - hmm - I have to wonder, now that I think of it, if she enjoyed herself more than I thought. Regarding the voice activated recorders.... I could catch an in-car conversation, but what would be really good would be a video out the rear window. My primary suspect at the moment is a guy at the church in that town - can't imagine they're doing it there, and they're probably going somewhere in his car. If I could take video out the back window I might catch them leaving. Or - a bug (boy, now I'm sounding really paranoid) in her purse that could be remotely recorded in the car - that'd be really revealing. The voice recorders that I've seen would be too large to actually put in the purse... Ideas? Oh, another thought. I could tail her myself if I had a different car. I could afford to buy a reliable junker and park it at a friend's house. She does this mostly during the day when the kids are in school, so it could be done. The problem would be entering the place. Maybe that wouldn't work. Trying to spark other ideas. I've been cautioned against this by those who thought I'd get violent (not something I'm likely to do) - thing is - I'd probably be laughing as I took video - "Take her! She's yours!" A PI would solve a lot of problems. Maybe I just have to look harder for one. Thanks!
jonesgirly Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 Get a lawyer, get a good one, and get it tomorrow. Get a father-friendly one too (a good website for fathers is deltabravo.net). I've been on both sides of the custody thing, and believe me, when parents really realize the $ involved, things can get UGLY.
whichwayisup Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 Or get a friend to tail her for you, with a video camera. No need to go buy a clunker car just for this purpose...(unless you want to drive one! LOL!) Anyway, she seems to have chosen to forget the responsibilities a mom has to her kids and family, and husband. That's very selfish and not what you bargained for when you married her and decided to have kids. How are they handling this? It must be confusing and rough on them. What do you tell them when they ask where mommy is?
jonesgirly Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 oh, and your profile says your gender is female. I hope you need to correct that.
Aquarius Guy Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 Dear Rural, Here is a Link to a thread with couple of links on catching a cheating spouse: Basically, you can ask questions that are diffiiicult to answer with a lie. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=325687&an=0&page=0#325687 But, on a more positive approach, what you want W to do, is to follow the marriage guidelines. Boundaries is taht you find anything you could do better at being more sensitive, then ask W to follow your wishes. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2750915&an=0&page=0#2750915 Blessings
Aquarius Guy Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 Dear Rural How About Accupressure for Lovers? How are your massage skills for getting W hot? Search EBay and Tanra.com for Massage Tapes - DVD's What kinds of oil/lubes does she like? http://www.sexualforums.com/talk/showthread.php?p=18248#post18248 Do you Romance Her? Do you call at least 3 times a day with sweet nothings? Have you read the Love Diet? http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=010377#000006 Blessings
Author RuralProblems Posted November 5, 2005 Author Posted November 5, 2005 Or get a friend to tail her for you, with a video camera. No need to go buy a clunker car just for this purpose...(unless you want to drive one! LOL!) Anyway, she seems to have chosen to forget the responsibilities a mom has to her kids and family, and husband. That's very selfish and not what you bargained for when you married her and decided to have kids. How are they handling this? It must be confusing and rough on them. What do you tell them when they ask where mommy is? Kids don't have a clue. She only leaves during the day while they're at school. But they're pretty beat up from her mental abuse.
Author RuralProblems Posted November 5, 2005 Author Posted November 5, 2005 oh, and your profile says your gender is female. I hope you need to correct that. Dooh! Corrected!
Author RuralProblems Posted November 5, 2005 Author Posted November 5, 2005 Get a lawyer, get a good one, and get it tomorrow. Get a father-friendly one too (a good website for fathers is deltabravo.net). I've been on both sides of the custody thing, and believe me, when parents really realize the $ involved, things can get UGLY. Thanks for the link. Others: http://www.unitedfathers.com/ http://www.nvo.com/beaulier/fathersrightscenter/ http://www.themenscenter.com/National/national06.htm The lawyer I found in your link is close to my place of business. That could be really helpful.
Author RuralProblems Posted November 5, 2005 Author Posted November 5, 2005 Dear Rural, Here is a Link to a thread with couple of links on catching a cheating spouse: Basically, you can ask questions that are diffiiicult to answer with a lie. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=325687&an=0&page=0#325687 But, on a more positive approach, what you want W to do, is to follow the marriage guidelines. Boundaries is taht you find anything you could do better at being more sensitive, then ask W to follow your wishes. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2750915&an=0&page=0#2750915 Blessings More great links! Wow. Regarding your other post (getting W hot)... Are you suggesting I try this in order to get her to reveal the name?
jonesgirly Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 The lawyer I found in your link is close to my place of business. That could be really helpful. Cool I'm glad to see that the kids haven't been "tangled up" in this mess too. I was thinking and re-reading your posts and have come to the conclusion that you indeed have an uphill battle when it comes to "whats next". It doesn't seem to me that there is really any hope for saving your marriage (you've been ready to seperate for a while), so I won't waste a whole lotta time there. I find it odd though, that there are no email, telephone or cellphone indicators of your wife's activities. How do they actually communicate? Is there maybe a drive-thru, no appointment needed, gigolo service available in the town she drives to? I cannot emphasize enough the possible "screwing" you will be setting yourself up for if you do not get excellent legal advice soon. You said that you're ready with a rather generous offer - you may want to save some of that $ for the possibility of court-ordered CS payments. I'm not trying to scare you, but I've witnessed MANY fathers crushed by the mother-favored (like it or not, its true) courts of our country. There is reform, but its slow-moving and hasn't created true equality yet. If you live in a no-fault divorce state, her "stay-at-home-mom" status will give her more "weight" in the courts eyes. Its very difficult to prove that you would be the more "fit" parent when your children are happy and well-adjusted. Her affair and behavior towards you will really have no bearing on the courts decision (depending on which state you live in). I know you're pi$$ed at her for whats she's done, but imagine how pi$$ed you'd be if the court orders a rather lucrative financial payoff for her, and then CS (lots and lots with a stay-at-home mom!) on top of it! Plus, you would be reduced to receiving "visitation" with your kids, which is just another knife in the parents back. Imagine - receiving "visits" with your own kids - how outrageous. And throw in a bitter "custodial parent", and you've got double trouble with your token "visits." Seriously, for real - I've seen it happen and have been on both sides of the mess. Husbands think they can "make an offer" to the STBX, then the STBX gets a lawyer, and WHAM-O, you might as well bend-over now. I'm only offering because of my experiences, so PLEASE get legal advice FIRST - don't be offering any "settlements" or thinking you're got an airtight case - you may be unpleasantly surprised.
Aquarius Guy Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 Dear Rural, I suggested Massage as a means of satisfying W. I suggest that you use this opportunity to sharpen your skills at being a good lover. I suggest that you avoid being part of the problem. If W is not fuly satisfied from your home work, then you could increase fidelity by increasing your wife's satisfaction. Did you ever dab peppermint oil on her clit to magnify her climax? How do you expect W to keep herself feeling satisfied when she is away? Have you ever incorporated any toys into your love making, that she can take with her on her trips? TOUGH LOVE: In additon to being a good lover, you want to command respect. My wife is making me feel foolish for doing things for her. Because I don't feel respect from her. I laid that out today. What has your wife requested, that is easy for you to do, that you have delayed, or not done fully? What moderate or difficult thins does W want from you? What can you negotiate as far as respect and pride? Ideas?
Author RuralProblems Posted November 5, 2005 Author Posted November 5, 2005 Cool It doesn't seem to me that there is really any hope for saving your marriage (you've been ready to seperate for a while), so I won't waste a whole lotta time there. I find it odd though, that there are no email, telephone or cellphone indicators of your wife's activities. How do they actually communicate? Is there maybe a drive-thru, no appointment needed, gigolo service available in the town she drives to? I cannot emphasize enough the possible "screwing" you will be setting yourself up for if you do not get excellent legal advice soon. Seriously, for real - I've seen it happen and have been on both sides of the mess. Husbands think they can "make an offer" to the STBX, then the STBX gets a lawyer, and WHAM-O, you might as well bend-over now. Points well taken. I find it really odd, given my technical prowess, that I haven't found the method of communcation yet. I see some interesting phone numbers on the cell, but not with any regularity. Given the small town nature of things, it could have been a chance meeting, and they've just set up some sort of schedule around the charity things she's worked on. She has a meeting with the primary suspect (a 22 year old kid!) next week - I'll see how she "preps" for that meeting, and maybe follow her. My next course of action is to import all of the calls (caller ID, cell, phone bills) and try to find some sort of pattern. Maybe she's figured out the deletion of calls on the cell phone, and I'll see a pattern when compared to the bills. Key logger on the computer and phone line recording coming soon to a computer and phone here You're right in that she could fight it. My thoughts are that she's either going to really fight it or get suicidal. I guess that I'd rather it be the former, thus my need to make sure I have a solid case. Taping her behavior with the kids would be my best bet, as the kids don't see themselves as abused. Funny thing is - I can call my mother-in-law to the stand in my defense if she would tell the truth (I think she would if she heard she has a boyfriend - she likes me more than her own daughter at times). Thanks for the suggestions / comments.
Author RuralProblems Posted November 5, 2005 Author Posted November 5, 2005 I suggested Massage as a means of satisfying W. I suggest that you use this opportunity to sharpen your skills at being a good lover. I suggest that you avoid being part of the problem. If W is not fuly satisfied from your home work, then you could increase fidelity by increasing your wife's satisfaction. Did you ever dab peppermint oil on her clit to magnify her climax? How do you expect W to keep herself feeling satisfied when she is away? Have you ever incorporated any toys into your love making, that she can take with her on her trips? Points also well taken. Funny thing is, as I was reading your links, I can definitely think I can see why she thinks I'm having an affair - I fit an awful lot of those (but I've been absolutely faithful). Maybe our lack of intimacy is somewhat my problem, but it's due to her behavior. I'll stick pretty firm to that. But she'll certainly bring it up in court if it comes to that. I'll have plenty of people to refute her arguments - she's treated me like sh*t in public as well as a home. But... practice... well, I guess if I look at it that way, it could be fun
Craig Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 She could have a pay as you go cell phone, no records there. Google spy equipment, you'll find a bunch of sites that sell the stuff you might be looking for. Just don't buy it in a way that your wife might find out what you are doing. Good luck, stay cool, collect the evidence and make sure it's going to stick before making your wife aware of it.
Aquarius Guy Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 Dear Rural, If W has treated you disrespectfully in public, it seems that you need to tighten that up. Getting Respect from W is a first priority, because that is necessary to end the affair. What habits does W have that you feel are disrepectful? What habits do you have that are less than fully respectful? What habits can you offer to change? There was a cycle of direspect which I broke yesterday. I am lazy about going through the old newspapers. My College son leaves the newspapers in disarrray, difficult to recycle, not knowing which section is which day, jumbled up. My wife would take newspapers out on recycling day, sometimes that days newspapers, so often nobody got to read recycling-day's newspapers. I started to gather up all sections over two days old, and take them to work, to sort and recycle myself, every day or two. That was my idea of how to break that cycle of disrespect. Any cycles of disrepect you can share? Body Oil by Neutrogena is expensive, but keeps a lasting lubrication, better than baby oil. Do You know about the Alluvial Cannals? The secret to massage, is to keep your finger tips into the mucles, and away from direct pressure into bodes or spine. The Alluvial Canals are on each side of the spine. If you massage the Alluvial Canal, on both sides of the spine, you will relax the back muscles, and awaken desire. Whispered phrases in the night. Trust is important to you. You find it easy to be faithful. You find new ways to give your husband a feeling of full trust and respect. Ever take any parenting courses? Check your church, school or county government. Parneting courses are for different ages of children. My wife and I always got along better after taking a parenting course. Here is a link to more ideas: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2766656&an=0&page=0#2766656 Ideas?
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