Relationship/dating issue (merged thread)

[Kindle500]

I always hear about dating and our values. "Are there value differences between you and the person you are dating?" for example. What exactly is a value? Can I get an example? Is it a way of being? Our beliefs?

 

For example, the woman I am dating puts more of an importance to drinking than I do. She could lose herself to drinking on a night out with friends while I'll have more control. Is that an example of our values being different?

Edited February 6, 2023 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[basil67]

Values are the things which are important to us.   In this situation, both of you value time with friends.   But you also have the value of moderation while also she has a value of it being important to able to let her hair down.   Whether it becomes a problem will depend on how much the two of you are willing to compromise without holding resentment.

 

[Kindle500]

Ok

 

Thanks. I see.  "What's important to us."  OK

[Wiseman2]

16 hours ago, Kindle500 said:

 the woman I am dating puts more of an importance to drinking than I do. She could lose herself to drinking on a night out with friends 

This is a good example of incompatibility. It's important to screen for deal breakers and red flags like this.

[glows]

When you say she “loses herself” is this blackout drunk, no recollection, risky or dangerous behaviours? 

[Kindle500]

56 minutes ago, glows said:

When you say she “loses herself” is this blackout drunk, no recollection, risky or dangerous behaviours? 

From what I see... no.

Essentially there is a difference in our attitudes towards drinking.  Our mindset.

I'm in my early 40's, she's in her early 30's.

Her whole family drinks, including her parents', brother and sister, and they seem to be close

See, it first started when after a month of dating I started getting drunk calls and texts.  I'm talking about on a random Tuesday night when she was at home, or then maybe she went out for drinks with her siblings on a Saturday night.  Gibberish texts that were hard to decipher, phone calls where she would say nothing and fall asleep.

The texts and calls were confusing, alarming, and I just didn't think this person would behave this way as she is a very responsible person.  It surprised me. 

I asked her to please stop with the drunk calls and texts, that I did not like them.  She apologized and to her credit she never did it again.

See, I go to a baseball game with friends, maybe we have a beer or two.  That's it.  The drinking is not the focus, it's not that important.

She went to a game,  with her siblings, and a friend, and they had to pregame it, then go to the game and drink more, then go to a bar after the game.  I am not saying anyone got drunk in that situation, I don't know, but there seems to be an importance to drinking.

She's a sweet woman, she always listens to my concerns without judgement.  She's thoughtful.  But the drinking just bothers me.  I just feel that one day I will be in a situation where she will get drunk and I have to babysit her, and I will not like that.  It's not what I look for in a partner.  it hasn't happened yet though.

I expressed this to her, and she said that she does not go out drinking all the time.  When I go out alone with her she may have a beer or two and that's it.  When we are alone she checks in on me to see if I am OK, that I don't have to worry about her drinking too much.  And she doesn't.

She told me that she will NOT stop drinking though, it's what she and her siblings and friends do when together. (I never asked her to stop, I just expressed my concern).  However, she said that I should feel safe when with her and trust her.

I even went to a wedding with her and we drank, but didn't get drunk.  But I'll be DAMNED if she didn't have to keep going to the bar to get us some beers.  It's her norm, it's what her siblings, friends and parents do.  Her whole life, this is what she saw.

 

I'll see how things go.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gaeta]

On your scale of 1 to 10 where is your value 'drinking habits' ? Is it tolerable, completely intolerable, you don't care, etc. You decide for yourself, if the value 'drinking habits' is a 10 on your scale so then she's not the one for you, your values are highly incompatible. If you're a 4-5 on the scale than it means you wouldn't do it yourself but you're ok if she likes alcohol. 

The world is full of amazing people with alcohol and drug addiction, doesn't mean they're relationship material. 

If I were you I would pass. At beginning of her 30s she should be prioritizing something else than getting drunk with family and friends. I don't mind the age difference but she appears to be less mature and focused than what she should be at her age. You're in your 40s, do you really want to deal with a woman that acts like she's still a college girl. 

 

[Kindle500]

18 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

On your scale of 1 to 10 where is your value 'drinking habits' ? Is it tolerable, completely intolerable, you don't care, etc. You decide for yourself, if the value 'drinking habits' is a 10 on your scale so then she's not the one for you, your values are highly incompatible. If you're a 4-5 on the scale than it means you wouldn't do it yourself but you're ok if she likes alcohol. 

The world is full of amazing people with alcohol and drug addiction, doesn't mean they're relationship material. 

If I were you I would pass. At beginning of her 30s she should be prioritizing something else than getting drunk with family and friends. I don't mind the age difference but she appears to be less mature and focused than what she should be at her age. You're in your 40s, do you really want to deal with a woman that acts like she's still a college girl. 

 

Right.

She would respond with "But I don't go out every weekend.  I'm mostly home. I rarely see my friends.  When I'm with you I barley drink."

 

I think you hit the nail on the head with the college girl comment because I once went to an Xmas party that her best friend threw and the women all acted like they were in college.  They even played beer pong.  And I was thinking at the time "college ended 10 years ago!"  I felt sad and it bugged me. But sometimes I feel like a stick in the mud I guess.  Like loosen up. 

As for your scale I would say 8.  In an ideal world 2 beers for the night would be enough  for her.  But honestly, when at a gathering, it's not.

[mark clemson]

I'm not dating. That said, in the US the term seems to be getting at essentially political differences - e.g. conservative vs liberal mindsets and/or views on key issues (sometimes called wedge issues). For some people, this is very important, others are more flexible about it.

I would note that people are individuals not political-party-defined monoliths, and so you and your partner's "alignment" on certain issues might differ, but you "agree to disagree" on others, and there can be harmony overall. For example, there are two issues that are wedge issues that my wife and I disagree on, but there also seem to be a host of them where we agree.

[smackie9]

Keep dating her and if that moment arrives she's completely out of control dump her then. 

[Ami1uwant]

On 12/12/2022 at 1:44 PM, Kindle500 said:

I always hear about dating and our values. "Are there value differences between you and the person you are dating?" for example. What exactly is a value? Can I get an example? Is it a way of being? Our beliefs?

 

For example, the woman I am dating puts more of an importance to drinking than I do. She could lose herself to drinking on a night out with friends while I'll have more control. Is that an example of our values being different?

Values are what’s really important to you…some of these can be….

 

1. religion/ beliefs and politics

2. wanting kids

3. living in a certain location with a style of home

4. food you eat or diet you follow

5. Important social characteristics and societal expected  norms

6.are there causes youare very passionate about

 

 

[Kindle500]

2 hours ago, smackie9 said:

Keep dating her and if that moment arrives she's completely out of control dump her then. 

Yes, that's my plan.   She's open to how I'm feeling and she seems to want to compromise. I see lots of positives in her, she's easy to get along with. no drama. ETC..  But I agree with you.  I'll focus on my boundaries and go from there.

 

I think I am being fair, I'm not asking her to stop drinking, I'm just asking her to be more mindful with her intake.  She agreed.  So I'll see what happens from here.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Kindle500

[basil67]

7 hours ago, Kindle500 said:

I just feel that one day I will be in a situation where she will get drunk and I have to babysit her, and I will not like that.  It's not what I look for in a partner.  it hasn't happened yet though.

 

It will happen one day.  Even the best laid plans can go awry on rare occasions and nobody is infallible. 

Question is, if she's otherwise perfect for you, would this situation be a dealbreaker?   

[Kindle500]

34 minutes ago, basil67 said:

It will happen one day.  Even the best laid plans can go awry on rare occasions and nobody is infallible. 

Question is, if she's otherwise perfect for you, would this situation be a dealbreaker?   

Honestly, she a very good person... really. But she isn't otherwise perfect.  I feel like we don't really have deep conversations..... and it's not because she is not smart.... she's a 4.0 GPA college grad with a masters.. She is smart.  I just wish she was more in touch with world affairs... just a tad.  We generally have a different taste in movies, which is fine.  Nothing is ever perfect, and I can accept that....but I guess the point of this thread is that I have doubts and concerns.   

 

[basil67]

This is good reflection on your part.  For what it's worth, it doesn't sound like she's actually doing anything wrong.....rather, it's more about her not being a good fit for you. 

Can you imagine a whole life with her?   Listen to your gut on this one

[glows]

You don’t sound like a good match.

Respect for a partner’s choices and the way they navigate life is the test for me.

From the way you think of her and her friends appearing immature or stunted as if stuck in the college days or lacking desire or interest in worldly affairs doesn’t speak of enough respect for her and I think that’s where this may fall way off the rails whether you both intend to or not. It’ll run its course.

There is just not enough respect for her or her decisions especially if you’re seemingly guiding her or coaching her to reconsider her lifestyle or drinking habits.

I can understand if you were in a decades long relationship or married and had more at stake but a few months or less than a year of dating, it’s probably not a good idea hoping this will change. She might have to stick around a little longer also to see that you don’t see eye to eye and her decisions are being questioned frequently.

Edited December 14, 2022 by glows

[Wiseman2]

Research Al-Anon. It's support, info and help for people like yourself who are having issues being involved with problem drinkers.:

https://al-anon.org/newcomers/self-quiz/adult-quiz/

 

[Kindle500]

Hi all

 I've been dating a woman who happens to work with me.  We have lunch together 5 days a weeks, when we have dates on weekends she stays over for the weekend, or one night, because she lives an hour away from our job and myself.

To make a long story short, in the beginning I was more interested in her, and now I feel more lukewarm about things.  I feel like I am on gear 5 and she is on 8 or 9.  This makes me anxious as I don't know if I should be feeling this way.  Deep down I know I should be feeling more.

Of course I care about her feelings, so I expressed to her where I am at and where I think she is at.  She agreed with me, I guess she felt it too,  but she still wants to continue the relationship.

Since we started dating I feel that things are less interesting, our conversations are OK.  I compare conversations with other women I have dated and feel that those were deeper, but this woman is for the most part, composed and thoughtful, which also draws me to her.  But I just feel that I should be feeling more. 

We do have one major mismatch in values, which is drinking.  She's not a party girl, but she, and her circle of friends and family, drink more than I am used to.  Which also I guess makes me cautious and not want to jump into the water headfirst.

I guess I'm looking for others perspective because I do care for her as a human being and I want what is best for her.  Me?  I'll be fine no matter the outcome.

 

[glows]

Does she report to you at work? 

You may have reached the end of the honeymoon stage. All the allure and mysteriousness is taken out because sex is over and done with and now you’re joined at the hip on lunch breaks and filling up your whole weekends with each other with nothing much more than each other. This is bound to get overwhelming before it becomes very stale. I’m not sure why you’re comparing her to other women.

It would also follow that the conversations have slowed because you’re both consumed with one another. Leave room for doing other things and spending time with friends and family or pursuing hobbies and interests. 

Have you recently left someone or broken up with someone who made a great impression on you? Rebounds usually fall flat. Not all but many do.

Regarding the drinking in her friends and family keep an eye on it but don’t be rude about it or make her feel self-conscious as it’s not something she can change about those other people. If this isn’t for you end it. Remain professional at work. 

[Gaeta]

36 minutes ago, Kindle500 said:

  Me?  I'll be fine no matter the outcome.

How long have you been dating?

Image dating someone that don't care if you're around or not. I would want the  man I am dating to *care* if I disappeared of his life or not. Dating is about getting to know someone and now that you know her  you recognize she's  a good person but you don't feel *that way* toward her. It's ok, that doesn't make you a bad person. Tell her and move on to someone that will ignite love in you. 

[Kindle500]

30 minutes ago, glows said:

Does she report to you at work? 

You may have reached the end of the honeymoon stage. All the allure and mysteriousness is taken out because sex is over and done with and now you’re joined at the hip on lunch breaks and filling up your whole weekends with each other with nothing much more than each other. This is bound to get overwhelming before it becomes very stale. I’m not sure why you’re comparing her to other women.

It would also follow that the conversations have slowed because you’re both consumed with one another. Leave room for doing other things and spending time with friends and family or pursuing hobbies and interests. 

Have you recently left someone or broken up with someone who made a great impression on you? Rebounds usually fall flat. Not all but many do.

Regarding the drinking in her friends and family keep an eye on it but don’t be rude about it or make her feel self-conscious as it’s not something she can change about those other people. If this isn’t for you end it. Remain professional at work. 

Thanks for the response. 

Well I would agree that having lunch every day does not help, but I told her that I need alone time, so to tell you the truth we probably don't interact as much at night.  She used to text allot at night and I asked that it stop unless it was important.  I just need time to myself.  She respected that.  We do take weekends away from each other to do other things, but I am more prone to want that than she is.

I have not dated anyone in 2 years.

Regarding comparing her to other women, I was just comparing the conversation and connection I've had with other women I clicked with in the past.  That's all, as conversation sometimes is a bit stale.

Regarding her drinking, see, she drinks too.  There were several times where I got drunk calls or texts from her, one time so much that I shut off my phone.  I didn't like that and I asked that she please stop.  She did and apologized. I lost some trust there though. Sometimes I'll get a late night text from her and I panic for a second.

 Sure, I can't control what other do,  but I just picked up an importance to alcohol from her.   She told me that's what she does at social gatherings and she won't stop, but she said that she won't get drunk if I am with her.  The drinking has been a bone of contention with us, and quite frankly something that made me lose some interest.  Not becuase she drinks, but becuase she has shown that she can sometimes lose herself to drink.

 

At work we are  both professional and I know that she has the composure to be professional as well. 

[glows]

Thanks for clarifying. You both may be very incompatible and drinking in excess is a red flag. What excess means usually involves some loss of control. Frequency of loss of control also plays a part.

We usually date to also find out what a person likes doing in their free time when not together. I’m getting the impression she spends more time than you drinking with friends and family. It begs the question what else you both have in common?

I went to a wine tasting this week and it was nice in the sense that the ambience was lovely, the product was delicious and the effects wore off quickly and everyone had a good time. Why don’t you pick someone you can enjoy doing things in moderation with?

Still not sure if she reports to you or vice versa. Hopefully she is professional enough to keep her distance and respects your working relationship should you end it.

Edited February 5, 2023 by glows

[Kindle500]

36 minutes ago, glows said:

Thanks for clarifying. You both may be very incompatible and drinking in excess is a red flag. What excess means usually involves some loss of control. Frequency of loss of control also plays a part.

We usually date to also find out what a person likes doing in their free time when not together. I’m getting the impression she spends more time than you drinking with friends and family. It begs the question what else you both have in common?

I went to a wine tasting this week and it was nice in the sense that the ambience was lovely, the product was delicious and the effects wore off quickly and everyone had a good time. Why don’t you pick someone you can enjoy doing things in moderation with?

Still not sure if she reports to you or vice versa. Hopefully she is professional enough to keep her distance and respects your working relationship should you end it.

She won't report and I won't.  She's not like that and she really is a sweet person.  Honestly.  It's just that the drinking concerns me.  Some of the times when she drunk dialed or texted me, she was just sitting at home.

When we have gone to gatherings together, I can't say that she gets wasted, but she does drink allot.

She told me a story  where in her last job she got so drunk at a holiday party that they had to call her a cab home.

I went to a family Christmas party with her this past Christmas and she just kept drinking wine, she did not get drunk, but on the way home she was just a tad different.  At the same party, I met her two aunts who were really drunk, her sister got blasted that they had to carry her out of the place.  I'll have a few drinks and I'm ok. 

She is really a sweet person, really.... it's just these situations give me pause.  I've expressed this to her and she tells me not to worry.  

My instincts just tell me that I can't have a lifetime of going to parties where grown women over 60 are getting so wasted and everyone acts like nothing is going on.  Even her parents seem to always have a drink in their hands. 

I guess that's why my interest level stagnated a bit.  My therapist says I'm self protecting myself.  I'm just confused.

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Kindle500

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Kindle500 said:

  There were several times where I got drunk calls or texts from her, one time so much that I shut off my phone.  I didn't like that and I asked that she please stop.  

You're observing a lot of red flags and that's a good thing. Unfortunately you work together, so you'll have to find a diplomatic way to back out of this. Try using a variation of "it's me, not you" so there's no negotiating or blame.

[Kindle500]

19 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You're observing a lot of red flags and that's a good thing. Unfortunately you work together, so you'll have to find a diplomatic way to back out of this. Try using a variation of "it's me, not you" so there's no negotiating or blame.

I agree with you.  I have learned not to date anyone at work, just for this reason.

Also, in regards to the drunk texts and phone calls, to me they felt like they were highlighting some underlining issues.  That stalled me emotionally.

I told friends about it at the time but they didn't think it was a big deal.  I couldn't believe it.  Though my therapist thinks her actions were a big deal.  

She told me that she would stop doing it, and she did, except for this one time I got a weird late night text, total gibberish. She frantically explained it as "I don't know how that happened.  Weird." 

It's not so much her action as it is "what does this behavior really mean?"

Once I brought these actions up to her again as we were discussing the relationship.  And she got defensive and said 'Why are you brining that up again.  I stopped didn't I?"  And she did, but I don't think she understands the effect it had on me, because it's not so much the action as it is why is she doing it.   What's underneath all that?