Author Meraki Posted January 30, 2023 Author Posted January 30, 2023 9 minutes ago, ShyViolet said: HE DOESN'T. You need to look at the person he is, not at the person you want him to be. You CANNOT change another person. Couples therapy can't turn a bad relationship into a good one. I don't think what you need is couples therapy. What you need is to find your self-esteem and put an end to this relationship. Do you have really low self-esteem? This thread is becoming just sad. You are putting up with so much crap, and I must ask, why????? You keep turning it around on yourself and saying things like "maybe it's me, maybe I'm being unreasonable, maybe I'm the one with the problem" and it just sounds wrong. It sounds like you are lacking confidence and self-worth, and internalizing all this. Stop being self-deprecating. It's sad to lower one's standards like this. You deserve better. Hmm. I didn't think my self esteem was that low. I DO believe I deserve better. I think this is something like the "boiling frog effect"...and there's some hesitation to act decisively. Some fear.
basil67 Posted January 30, 2023 Posted January 30, 2023 21 minutes ago, Meraki said: My cleanliness was a quality he admired before he moved in. I just want him to respect me enough to want to help out without my asking him to do so. He admired your cleanliness. But what was the state of his house before he moved in? This is the reference point of the amount of cleaning effort you'd expect him to make.
basil67 Posted January 30, 2023 Posted January 30, 2023 Just now, Meraki said: Hmm. I didn't think my self esteem was that low. I DO believe I deserve better. I think this is something like the "boiling frog effect"...and there's some hesitation to act decisively. Some fear. Fear of what?
Author Meraki Posted January 30, 2023 Author Posted January 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, basil67 said: Fear of what? It could be fear that this is yet another "failure". Logically, I know that's silly...1) There's always something to learn; 2) this takes two, and 3) continuing as is will bring only contempt.
Author Meraki Posted January 30, 2023 Author Posted January 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, basil67 said: He admired your cleanliness. But what was the state of his house before he moved in? This is the reference point of the amount of cleaning effort you'd expect him to make. He lived with a roommate, but had a pretty tidy space, actually! I remember being surprised. Now I wonder if it was only like that when I visited. He visited me more often because he said he preferred the privacy, since I have my own place. He used to also complain about how his roommate left dishes in the sink...I thought we were on the same page.
Weezy1973 Posted January 30, 2023 Posted January 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Meraki said: He went out and brought home some coffee and breakfast. He unloaded the dishwasher, wiped the counter, and he poop scooped the backyard. This paints a slightly different picture than the original lazy man-child you described. 1 hour ago, Meraki said: . Oh my god. There's not a single chore he is solely responsible for. How'd I just realize this? Wow. Do you mow the lawn and other yard maintenance? Repair maintain the cars? Odd jobs around the house like replacing light bulbs, unclogging drains etc. ? Do you build the IKEA furniture? Take care of rogue spiders? I just mention these things because they’re chores that traditionally men do, so if he’s not doing these things either, we’ll I think it’s time for him to pack his bags and take a trip to Dumpsville. 3
ShyViolet Posted January 30, 2023 Posted January 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Meraki said: He lived with a roommate, but had a pretty tidy space, actually! I remember being surprised. Now I wonder if it was only like that when I visited. He visited me more often because he said he preferred the privacy, since I have my own place. He used to also complain about how his roommate left dishes in the sink...I thought we were on the same page. It was the beginning of the relationship and the honeymoon phase. He was showing you his "best" self. Now his true self has come out.
glows Posted January 30, 2023 Posted January 30, 2023 You seem very angry and resentful, OP. It’s not going to help the situation at all if you’re wanting to remain a couple. He sounds a bit insensitive and immature (referring to his comments about his ex in conversation etc) but that’s up to you to determine where your dealbreakers are. Is there anyone else at work or someone else you’re comparing him to? If this man continues to irk you and cause so much grief do both of yourselves a favour and end it. It’s not healthy to be hanging onto this for fear of being alone or feeling like this is a failure. Repeated thoughtlessness, disrespect, rudeness or needing to supervise or watch someone would be dealbreakers personally. Having said that, being so hard and unforgiving or unwilling to grow together just means this is headed towards a break up anyway. It goes both ways in checking out of a relationship and losing steam.
Ami1uwant Posted January 30, 2023 Posted January 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Meraki said: My home is not perfect like a magazine. It's somewhat organized, and clean but there is clutter. My office has some papers I still need to file. I should probably dust in here, but haven't yet. To be clear, I'm not psychotic about cleaning. It isn't white glove inspection clean like they wanted in the military, to me that's not reasonable. I have two dogs - one is quite furry and his fur balls accumulate in the corners each week. But at just under 1,000 sq ft -- it's very manageable to keep reasonably clean. A clean space is relaxing to me. My cleanliness was a quality he admired before he moved in. I just want him to respect me enough to want to help out without my asking him to do so. As far as the sex goes...there was plenty of it at the start. It was amazing, actually. When I felt respected. When, if I wasn't in the mood, or was too exhausted from working 10+ hour days, he wouldn't say things like "oh this isn't what I'm used to" at the first sign of disinterest. Then tell me about how his ex had a very high sex drive and was totally insatiable (I'll spare you some of the other details on that). Come on. Who wants to hear that?? Communication is lubrication. He can better compartmentalize his day and immediately be ready to go. Me, not so much! I have told him what turns me on. I have asked for more foreplay, flirting or some type of mental stimulation, he was angry and defensive and said it was "too much work". When he told me what I could do better to to improve our sex life, I listened and implemented more of what he wanted. I have put in more than my fair share of work here. I don't think it matters that he felt rejected. Because I have, too. If he "gives up" that easily, I'm wasting my time. I am asking for equal effort. I do not ignore the small things, because they add up. I've posted about how I acknowledge those small things. I try to see things from his perspective. I have been trying. I am aware of the honeymoon phase, I didn't expect such a dramatic drop off in effort from someone that seemed so invested emotionally and so sincere. This is another hard learned lesson I suppose. If you critiqued him on how he cleans or he so you repeating doing what he did would cause in him to pull away on cleaning. I dealt with thus more from my mom whrn I was a teen where she would “ clean up” when it didn’t need cleaning because it was cluttered. I know how I reacted to it so he could have reacted similarly. when it comes to sex are you expecting him to initiate ? are you making like a puzzle he needs to solve like a rubix cube? I understand he wanted to just do it but you wanted foreplay or something before. Was it obvious to him what that was or did it appear to him to constantly change ? I get you were too tired but if you kept tutning away it becomes thr boy who cried wolf. Have you done thr initiating and he turned you away? what about doing things together? We’re you always expecting him to plan the dates/ activities? How much did you plan thing out other than the complaining about not doing something? 1
basil67 Posted January 30, 2023 Posted January 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Meraki said: It could be fear that this is yet another "failure". Logically, I know that's silly...1) There's always something to learn; 2) this takes two, and 3) continuing as is will bring only contempt. And of course, failure vs success all depends on how you look at it. I'd say that staying in an unhealthy relationship is failing yourself and successfully offloading a relationship which is dragging you down is a personal success
Els Posted January 30, 2023 Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Meraki said: have asked for more foreplay, flirting or some type of mental stimulation, he was angry and defensive and said it was "too much work". 10 hours ago, Meraki said: What does he do for me? Today he did more than usual. He went out and brought home some coffee and breakfast. He unloaded the dishwasher, wiped the counter, and he poop scooped the backyard. When I was tidying up the house, I asked him to make a list of groceries because we were low on food, he did that without complaints. We went to the store together. For a while, he was consistently doing most of the cooking with the agreement that I do all the laundry. That was our arrangement initially. At some point he said it was too much to always do the cooking. So I help cook. Oh my god. There's not a single chore he is solely responsible for. How'd I just realize this? Wow. Yiiiikes, what an insanely lazy guy. How old is he again? OP, please, you deserve so much better than this. ANYONE who functions like an independent adult and puts effort into their relationship deserves so much better than this sad manchild, regardless of what their other flaws are. You don't have to be in a relationship where you're having to count the times he unloaded the dishwasher(!!) and wiped the counter(!?!) as evidence of him doing stuff. You don't have to be in a relationship where you feel unloved and uncared for, with a person who is so addicted to gaming that it takes priority over your relationship every single day. And you most certainly don't have to be having sex with a man who can't be bothered with foreplay. If a guy can't even put in the effort to have foreplay despite his partner telling him that she needed it, the only person he should be having sex with is his hand. He isn't going to change. You need to leave. You can't grow as a person with this guy weighing you down. Edited January 30, 2023 by Els
JTSW Posted January 30, 2023 Posted January 30, 2023 You are not his partner, you are his mother. What you describe is like listening to a mother trying to get her teenage son to move his ass and clean up after himself. This isn't what a relationship should be like. You shouldn't have to tell him to do it. He tells you his game is more important that you and that you are in the wrong when you feel too tired for sex. WTF? He is so immature, and while he may start helping, it wont last long. This just feels like too much stress and I'm baffled that @Ami1uwant is so fiercely coming to his defence. 4
Wiseman2 Posted January 30, 2023 Posted January 30, 2023 On 1/28/2023 at 9:29 PM, Meraki said: . About six months after we became official, he moved in with me. How old is he? Unfortunately you may need to reflect if you chose to overlook a lot of red flags because you didn't want to be alone. Moving him into your house this soon indicates that you were trying to fast forward the relationship. You can still undo this mistake (of letting him move in) by simply giving him adequate legal notice to move out. It's better than bickering and being frustrated and doubting yourself.
Calmandfocused Posted January 30, 2023 Posted January 30, 2023 17 hours ago, Meraki said: What does he do for me? Today he did more than usual. He went out and brought home some coffee and breakfast. He unloaded the dishwasher, wiped the counter, and he poop scooped the backyard. When I was tidying up the house, I asked him to make a list of groceries because we were low on food, he did that without complaints. We went to the store together. For a while, he was consistently doing most of the cooking with the agreement that I do all the laundry. That was our arrangement initially. At some point he said it was too much to always do the cooking. So I help cook. Oh my god. There's not a single chore he is solely responsible for. How'd I just realize this? Wow. I am also a gamer, but I feel like I can prioritize the important things. You're right. Words are cheap. I say it all the time! Ugh. I am not sure how it has gone this far. Hmm I’m not buying that he’s a lazy no- hoper. If he wasn’t supportive of you he wouldn’t be working with you at all. And if you’re being honest with yourself he does work with you to some degree doesn’t he? You’re simply failing to see it. I think your expectations are way too high of him. I think you’re “forgetting” everything he is/ does and instead you’re focusing on everything you want but don’t get. Look, don’t be with him if you don’t want to. If you want more then go find it. However human beings are flawed so be prepared for the fact that your next partner is likely to not reach your expectations either . He could be a champion cleaner with some gruesome habits. You just don’t know. Only you can decide what your dealbreakers are.
bene Posted January 30, 2023 Posted January 30, 2023 This is what dating is for — finding out if you’re compatible. Moving in together accelerates the process because now you see the everyday life with him. Some people have low energy and don’t want to anything besides lounging around, playing video games, watch tv etc. Some people are messy and don’t care about their surroundings (his male roommate probably didn’t mind). It’s not inherently right or wrong but it’s up to you to decide if this suits you. Personally I think that you have a mother and teenage son dynamic and this alone is enough to put a woman off. You have been together for a short time. Take note that this is his best behavior, it doesn’t get better from here. You can long for the “good times” you once had but it will be a smaller and smaller fraction of your relationship.
artnoveau Posted February 6, 2023 Posted February 6, 2023 (edited) I am a therapist and I feel like he truely needs therapy. It sounds like depression or possibly some anxiety disorder and he is deep in avoidance mode. Computer games often get used as a way to avoid feelings of insecurity, unhappiness (maybe feeling stuck in a job) and so on. If he finally is going to therapy, it could get better, so you might wait a bit and evaluate if you see any change in him, after a while of therapy. But you need to decide, if you feel comfortable waiting around. If you know that he has been depressed before or if you know there have been similar issues in relationships before, therapy is less likely to help. Maybe get an insight from family and long time friends of his. (And there is a chance of therapy not working, because he might not be self motivated to do one, but a good/compatible therapist would try to get him motivated). Edited February 6, 2023 by artnoveau spelling error
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