mrm00k Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 My wife has developed a friendship with a guy that is deeper than I knew. They worked in the same group together for serveral years and that ended a few months ago. I did not expect they would even keep in touch, but they email several times a week and his name was coming up in conversation more and more frequently. About a month ago I asked if they were more than work friends. I thought that would lead to conversation about their relationship, but the only explanation was "work friends". I said but you guys do not work together anymore, and the conversation grew cold. She doesn't bring him up anymore, but I know that the email has continued several times/week. Maybe even more, I don't really know. I suggested that she could invite him and his family down for a get together but "that wouldn't work". This is the first time I can think of where we haven't been completely open with each other so I am flustered. She has put up a wall about this and doesn't seem bothered that I am having a hard time. She simply doesn't want to discuss it with me. I wonder if I should force the conversation with her or pretend it doesn't really bother me and hope it goes away ... Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 I think you know that its not "just friends". Do you want solid proof of that? Install a keylogger on the computer and find out what is in those emails. It is clear that you'll find something you don't want to see. Are you prepared for what you want to do when you find out what is really going on? Link to post Share on other sites
ThumbingMyWay Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 I said but you guys do not work together anymore, and the conversation grew cold. She doesn't bring him up anymore, but I know that the email has continued several times/week. I suggested that she could invite him and his family down for a get together but "that wouldn't work". She has put up a wall about this and doesn't seem bothered that I am having a hard time. She simply doesn't want to discuss it with me red flags all over the place....FORCE the issue. its sounds like feelings are involved....thats why she dont want you to meet him....this is HER friend...not yours and she wants to keep it that way. Link to post Share on other sites
witabix Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 This seems to be something that bothers a lot of us, I wonder if there should be a seperate thread devoted to this? Something like "Having a Problem with Significant Others friend(s)?" I have wondered about this issue too and looked through the threads to find others views, it seems to come out a lot in the "Can men and women really be only friends" kind of stream. I understand the keylog approach, I would feel personally uncomfortable with that, but in the days of litigation and divorce I do understand. Get her to talk about it is my advice, explain how you feel rationally. Try to write down your feelings so that you know how you actually do feel. This seems to be one of the things that threaten us 'jealous' types a lot. The key I think is to exernalise it rather than eating your heart out. Don't get angry, get more information, talk to her honestly and calmly Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 MrM00K- Read my thread on this site...you tell me if it's worth it or not. Do a search for threads I've started and read my story. My wife oo had 'just a friendship' with someone she'd never even met in person. Look, your wife will NOT come clean on what's going on to you unless you can hit her with concrete evidence. Even then, she's likely to lie, deny, and then minimize it as much as she can for as long as she remains in contact with this guy. As far as litigation, if you own the computer, it is perfectly legal for you to put a keylogger on it. PERIOD. Just as you are legally responsible for any illegal activities that that computer is used for. PERIOD. If she's using the home computer to IM/email this guy, then drop a keylogger on it. If you know or figure you can guess her logins and passwords, then log in and check out her email and IM accounts. Setup automatic logging on the IM account... If you DON'T take action to find out what's going on, this is NOT going to just go away. Trust me...I'd hoped my wife's friend would just go away. And then I did EXACTLY what I'm telling you to do. And got the absolute proof of what was going on. When I confronted her about it, she was all set to fly away to live with this guy...even though they had NEVER met in person. If you don't take action, she's just going to continue her EA (emotional affair) with this guy. And it's entirely possible that it's a PA as welll...that they've already been physically together as well. Up to you...either bury your head in the sand and hope it goes away, or take steps to do something about it. Read my thread, then come back and let me know what you think you want to do. Link to post Share on other sites
reservoirdog1 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 As far as she's concerned, let the subject drop. Outwardly. You need more evidence. Install a keylogger and watch her email. Do this under her radar. Speaking as a betrayed ex-husband: any relationship between your spouse and another person that seems to close, probably is. Link to post Share on other sites
Mz. Pixie Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Former cheating wife here- listen, I said and did those things exactly to my exhusband. I had ended up bringing up our friend in conversation a couple of times too. He didn't notice though but later when the air cleared and the fling was over I realized what I had done. Link to post Share on other sites
ThumbingMyWay Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Speaking as a betrayed ex-husband: any relationship between your spouse and another person that seems to close, probably is. you mean another person of the opposite sex. I just dont think my wife would be down with me being good friends with another female....UNLESS my wife was included in the friendship. After my wifes affair, WE BOTH agreed that her being friends with males is just not a good idea. They seem to fall in love with her amd get attached to her. Her affair started as friends.....plus as we think back....there were guys in the past that she was friends with....but now in retrospec....THEY had feelings for her beyond friends..... Link to post Share on other sites
ThumbingMyWay Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 damm....now that I think of this....my wife would bring up her boss all the f-ing time.....arrrgggg. P this P that...oh he;s soo funny, blah blah blah.....I even shot pool with him at my wifes bday party......aarrgggg.... OK, its friday....no need to dwell Link to post Share on other sites
Mz. Pixie Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Sorry TMW- didn't mean to give you a "trigger". You and your wife are inspiring by the way...... Link to post Share on other sites
ThumbingMyWay Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Sorry TMW- didn't mean to give you a "trigger". You and your wife are inspiring by the way...... THANKS.... we are trying. And I think its going to work..... Some friends of ours from highschool...same age as us...together 15 years....are getting a divorce. My wife and I both agreed we DO NOT want to go there and we will do what ever it takes to make this work.... yeah...triggers....I f***in hate them! still have a few that just shoot me right into my box of fear....hope they go away some day... Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 mrm00k - does she carry a cell phone? I'd look at the bill itemized by number (with my company you don't get the itemized bill on paper, but you can log onto their website and get it online after registering your account...) In the face of mounting uneasiness, this was my first hard evidence that something was going on - 900-1200 minutes a month to one particular number, with some calls 30-60 minutes long. No wonder she upgraded her calling plan and bought a "hands-free" headset... Also, if the bill shows text messaging going on, if you can get the cell phone in hand at some point and check the text messaging "inbox" and "sent messages", this might be illuminating, although a crafty user can delete these immediately to cover one's tracks. (Again, in my case this was horrifyingly illuminating... I turned the phone on and immediately two new and graphic incoming messages were delivered into my hands...) Incidentally, I was paying the cell phone bill while most of this was going on... Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
reservoirdog1 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 damm....now that I think of this....my wife would bring up her boss all the f-ing time.....arrrgggg. P this P that...oh he;s soo funny, blah blah blah.....I even shot pool with him at my wifes bday party......aarrgggg.... Yeah, that pisses me off too... WXW brought her OMs into my life, I served dinner to those f*cking assh*les in my home, considered two of them to be friends. Hell, I went out with those two in a group of guys on numerous occasions. WXW was never secretive about who she was with... that totally threw me off the scent. Obviously she just left out the part about how she was f*cking them too... Link to post Share on other sites
Bryanp Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Hello, If the roles were reversed I am sure your wife would never have put up with such crap. It is pretty obvious that she is in at least an emotional affair. I would contact the OM's wife and inform of all that has been going on. This will most likely bring the situation to a boil but more importantly the OM's wife will be watching him more closely. Right now the OM is trying to hook up with your wife and supply her emotional needs without consequences. Who knows if they have already been physical in the fast. Her behavior is totally unacceptable and there are red flags all over the place. Contact the OM's wife now. If the roles were reversed, wouldn't you have wanted to be contacted also and be informed of the situation? Link to post Share on other sites
ThumbingMyWay Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Yeah, that pisses me off too... WXW brought her OMs into my life, I served dinner to those f*cking assh*les in my home, considered two of them to be friends. Hell, I went out with those two in a group of guys on numerous occasions. WXW was never secretive about who she was with... that totally threw me off the scent. Obviously she just left out the part about how she was f*cking them too... damm :mad: that cuts deep res. I take it you dont hang with this group anymore.... Link to post Share on other sites
reservoirdog1 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 damm :mad: that cuts deep res. I take it you dont hang with this group anymore.... Well, of those two OMs, one lives across the country. The other isn't part of that group anymore. The mutual friends in question didn't know about WXW's cheating with that one until I told them (though they told me after that they'd wondered a bit in the past -- their friendship always seemed a bit too close). Link to post Share on other sites
Author mrm00k Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 I appreciate all the replies. I want to treat this thing seriously now because I see the problems other people have. This weekend I put a keylogger on the computer. It made me feel pretty bad about myself. Sat night I left the house for a half hour to run an errand. Basically that was the first private time for the wife. Later that night I checked and she had sent out an email to the guy while I was gone. I was stunned. There was nothing lurid in the email. It was short and mundane, day to day stuff. I was really disturbed though that as soon as I was gone, she initiated communcation with the guy. I think I am going to leave the logger on for 1 week and see what happens. Then no matter what I am going to take the logger off and force some discussions next weekend. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mrm00k Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Well this has not at all been what I expected. There is contact daily between my wife and the guy. They email sometimes that they are too busy to write a full email. But the email's don't discuss anything intimate, at least so far. In fact at this point the conversation is so dull that I don't know why this is worthwhile to either one of them. I am worried about the frequency of the contact, but at this point no indications of anything inappropriate. It's only been 4 days I guess. Link to post Share on other sites
brashgal Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 You kind of wonder why they feel they need to contact each other daily or more often if they aren't going to say much. I think that is how the intimacy builds though, it is their little secret, they are always "there" for each other. When I discovered my ex's affair there were hundreds of these mundane emails - he never deleted anything as he didn't expect me to violate his privacy. Gradually they started ending with 'good night' - it became their little catch phrase, like they were tucking one another in to dream about the other. Then the 'I love yous' cropped up. Sounds like it is just the beginning and it's time to confront before it's too late. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Yeah - in my case it was 80-100 cell phone calls per month over the 4 month period that I was able to audit - 800-1200 minutes per month. a lot of them 1 or 2 or 3 minutes long, some up as long as 30, 40, 50 minutes. And much of this was during a time when they were working together 3-5 days per week. Wow, how stupid would I have had to be to swallow the "we're just friends who work together" line? It's like boiling a frog - they start out thinking they're just friends - lying to themselves - and then slide down the slippery slope and one day you all wake up and they're signing off "I love you." Link to post Share on other sites
sylviaguardian Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Hmmm! I always heard this line from my h too "We just used to talk about mundane stuff". We were talking around 400 sms messages per month and 1-2 calls per day, despite the fact that they worked together. What you guys have been saying, kinda makes it more illuminating - like having someone who's 'always there for them'. Arrgh, I am getting mad now! Time to stop stirring my brain! Syl Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Mrmook- Reread Trimmer's last post again....and again, and again, and again, and again. Then give thought to the comment that was made "WHY do they have to have this much contact?". Then go read my story here on LS... http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t49539/ Perhaps take a look at some of the others that begun online...do a search for threads started by "sysyphus" or "sysphus"...something like that. My wife's EA started out very similarly. She met a guy who was pretty cool (turned out to be a lot like me personality wise) playing online games...even introduced me to him online, and the three of us gamed together. He started IM'ing her during the day when I was at work...and it was all non-emotional contact...at first. Eventually they started talking about their lives, our relationship, his past relationships, etc... Then he called her one time...then another, and another. Fast forward to what you read in my story, and maybe you'll get the picture. Do something about it, or your wife will almost certainly be in an affair...she's at least in the first stages of an 'emotional affair' now. Don't blow it off cause there is no physical contact between them...again, my wife was all set to leave me to LIVE with this guy...whom she had NEVER met in person!!!!! Take this seriously. Talk to a counselor. Document EVERYTHING. And confront your wife with what she's doing (or at least risking) to your marriage as soon as you've gathered enough evidence to be incriminating. Sure, the content of these emails is innocuous...but look at the frequency. And keep tabs on it so that you can demonstrate to her that this is NOT a normal friendship and that it is NOT acceptable behavior in a marriage. Again, talk to a good MC/IC before you have this talk if you like...so that you've got more factual based arguments. Do NOT treat this as nothing. Take it from someone who has been there. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mrm00k Posted November 7, 2005 Author Share Posted November 7, 2005 I want to thank everyone for the replies. I think it is helping me work through this mess. After a week of monitoring, I see that sometimes days go by with no contact, (not 2 days though) and the emails are mostly small. They each sent one long email last week talking about their lives. house stuff, Jobs, kids, books etc. Even spouses. Everything was upbeat and on the level. It showed that there is understanding of each other's situation. Makes me realize lots of communications have taken place. It really bothers me that they usually sign each email with "me". Is that common and I'm reading too much into it ? I don't know a lot about email etiquette. Anyways, I can sense the friendship, and as someone in another post described the "knowing that the other person is always there". I am deciding what to do next. I must talk to her but there really hasn't been any conversation I have seen yet that I could confront her with. I think I am going to monitor for another week, but I don't want to do this long term. If nothing incrminating surfaces, I still don't like the way this feels. Link to post Share on other sites
lilmoma1973 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Sounds like they have a emotional connection .. I suggest you go to a counselor and get to the bottom of why she is needing to still have communication with this guy!! She might be getting from him what you aren't giving her and in turn she wants that friendship with him !!! Women want to feel needed and loved and he may he maybe doing this for her!! Please if you want your marriage to work the friendship with him needs to stop and you all go to a marriage counselor and work on your communication and needs or you will be headed for divorce.. An emotional connection with someone else besides your spouse can be very bad for a marriage!!! Good luck Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 It showed that there is understanding of each other's situation. Makes me realize lots of communications have taken place. It really bothers me that they usually sign each email with "me". Is that common and I'm reading too much into it ? .... If nothing incrminating surfaces, I still don't like the way this feels. I don't think you are reading too much into it - I don't like the way it feels, either. I think signing "me" is a pretty emotionally intimate signoff. Signing off "me" says "we're beyond names." Start with the fact that you logically can't sign "me" to more than one person, because clearly people would get confused quite quickly. Therefore, you can have only one other "me" in your life. So signing "me" becomes a symbol, saying "I'm special and unique in your life - the only one who fulfils this position." And if that symbol is returned - if hte OM is signing back that way in return - it shows a mutual agreement. It's the perfect start to an EA: unspoken, mutual, emotional intimacy. (And I realize that from the purely logical point of view, you've got return Email addresses that mitigate the confusion of the "me" signature, but still, c'mon - you can't deny the symbolism of this practice.) I can't think of a "friend", either male or female, that I would be comfortable signing "me" to without feeling like it was an offer of emotional intimacy. Can you? I want to wave my arms and point and shout "Look here, everyone, this is what we're talking about..." To an objective ouside observer with any sense of human interaction and communication, this sets off alarm bells and starts the red lights flashing. But to the BS, you so badly want to believe it's not true that you question your own sense of reality, your own instincts. I know this; I know this from experience. And the WS, if confronted, has lots of tools to deny the situation. She will probably try to deflect attention from the "me" signoff and any other subtle indicators of emotional intimacy, by demonstrating to you how there's nothing explicitly stated, highlighting the very mundane "normality" of their communications that you have noted, trying to cast them as "no big deal", and convincing you that you're reading too much into it. Depending on where she is in the process, she may even have herself convinced of that. And like I said, you will question your own instincts, and you will look for any explanation that provides a "way out." I think you're in a tough spot confronting her now, exactly because she can still point to the mundane, ordinary aspect of their communication and the lack of explicit details of emotional entanglement, and claim that you are reading too much into a "silly little signature" like "me". She will lie to herself and will find it easy to share that lie with you. Link to post Share on other sites
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