lindya Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 Nice people. Is the problem that people start placing too high expectations on them? Do they absorb a certain amount of other people's bile, then suddenly blow up like our old friend the Incredible Hulk and become terrifying, ranting machines of bitterness and gloom? What does it mean to be nice? Permitting yourself to be manipulated by others? Retaining endless amounts of patience with life's eternal venters...and never ever saying "enough's enough...be silent now!" Never cracking a joke in case someone somewhere might be offended? I'd like to hear from "nice people gone wrong". What made you finally see the dark side? Are you now simply "not very nice" or are you actively engaged in the pursuit of becoming a real s***? What, in your view, are the leading benefits of not being nice/being a s***? Also, "nice people". Have you strayed from the path of niceness and regretted it? Have you tried to be less nice, but found that other people (friends, family and colleagues) continually sabotaged your efforts? Purely as a hypothetical question....if you were to hear of a course called "Reducing the niceness factor...Lindya shows you how". A 5 day residential course (all meals and health spa facilities included, alcohol bill not covered) for $6000 per head, is this something you would be interested in attending? Disclaimer. I provide no guarantee that I will actually read and respond to every post. The ignore button may sometimes be applied in respect of posters providing responses that contain more than 55% self pity/post adolescent angst, excess capitalisation and incoherent ranting.
ReluctantRomeo Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 This wasn't what I intended to address exactly...
ReluctantRomeo Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 ... but I'm game to join in anyhow. Let's see...
Author lindya Posted October 28, 2005 Author Posted October 28, 2005 How did that happen?! I'm sure I tried to post it in the watercooler
ReluctantRomeo Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 ... I think niceness is often a veneer. There's a difference between someone who is genuinely nice and someone who tries to look nice as a tactical ploy (eg scared of causing offence, wanting to get women). There's something rather passive-aggressive about the later which is particularly unattractive. Including the possibility that one day you suddenly switch and decide not to be nice anymore. If you can do this, I think you probably weren't ever nice in the first place.
ReluctantRomeo Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 How did that happen?! I'm sure I tried to post it in the watercooler Phew, you've started drinking early Lindya
Author lindya Posted October 28, 2005 Author Posted October 28, 2005 Phew, you've started drinking early Lindya Yes well. I met my professional foe earlier on today . Following our initial conflict she's now being quite reasonable actually, which brings me onto the point of... Do nice people believe that they're nice because they continually avoid often conflict or try to deflect it with passive "niceness"? Do they have more in common than they imagine with more aggressive types who see conflict as inevitably something that can only be effectively handled with hostility and aggression or by "caving in"? By continually fearing or avoiding conflict, do they end up bottling things up and ultimately making things worse for themselves and everyone else...eg the Incredible Hulk effect? Is anyone other than you or me actually going to bother with this thread? So many questions, so little time.
Author lindya Posted October 28, 2005 Author Posted October 28, 2005 *yawn* You shouldn't stay up so late at your age, alpha. Weekend or no, it's an early night for you.
littlekitty Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 Well quite frankly to the majority of the world it may appear that I'm striving to be some what of a utter b*tch...!! However I'm not... it's just... I'm not really that nice!! I mean, I'm nice to people I like... but if people keep p*ssing me off at this rate I'll run out of places to hide the bodies!! Don't get me wrong... I used to be really, really nice. A lovely nice girl. But the dark side beckoned when I got rather bored of being taken advantage of by the not so nice people in this world... I turned... and now? I'm a complete b*tch... bite me!!
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 "Nice" is entirely a matter of subjective perspective. When someone is "nice" and it works in your favor, its a good thing. When someone is "nice" and it isn't working for you its a bad thing. One person's selfless giving saint is another person's obligational needy martyr. I'd like to hear from "nice people gone wrong". 1. What made you finally see the dark side? 2. Are you now simply "not very nice" or are you actively engaged in the pursuit of becoming a real s***? 3. What, in your view, are the leading benefits of not being nice/being a s***? I was taught by my parents to never complain, be grateful for whatever I had regardless of what it was, show gratitude always, be quiet unless you are saying only positive things, never allowed to cry or show negative emotion, everything you do has to be done so that others will see you in the best light, etc. For many years, I was "nice". I became a highly skilled needy emotional blackmailer with a gift for passive aggressive manipulation. My parents taught me well. My life was a constant cycle of loss because of this. 1. When did the dark side come? When I became congnizant of the 'welcome' embedded in my back, from driving so many people out of my life with my behavior and they stepped down hard on my doormat back on the way out. 2. Now, I am not nice. I am not mean. I am, however objective - and I look out for my own interests with the exception of my daughter - I always keep her best interests in mind. Otherwise, I try to call it like I see it and I do what makes me happy. Most of the time I don't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks about what I do or say. They either accept me or not, and I don't care if they like or dislike me. I tell people things how they are, when they ask - without regard to how I think they will see me as a person for saying it in such a way. But... old habits die hard - I still have problems from time to time reverting to that "nice" behavior in a case where I don't want to lose something important to me. Its a work in progress. 3. Loss/Benefit analysis? Being a "nice" passive aggressive martyr will result in the loss of everything you have. Trust me on this one. Being a person who is not and is him/herself regardless of what the other person thinks about them stands a better chance of being 'chosen' in life for who they are, rather than 'settled for' or 'stuck with' as part of a feeling of obligation of the other person.
d'Arthez Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 The problem is with "nice" is that it is multi-faceted. You can let someone rant and rave about how unfair life is to him. Without ever forming expectations, or letting expectations form, other than that you will be there once every now and then, to listen to them. You'd be more or less old friends who had grown apart, but still for reasons unknown catch up every now and then. That is not pathological "niceness", in my opinion, even though it is by no means necessary to do things like that. Think of how amusing and insightful it can be to discuss politcs for instance with someone from a completely different background. Even though you would not agree, the experience can still be a good one. One of my friends, who is a beggar is one of those people. We live in completely different worlds, and that is one of the charms of it. No one has a perfect life. Some women suffer from PMS at times. And I do not subscribe to the false belief, that cosmic justice only makes me have bad days once in a a while. People are allowed to bitch, just as I allow myself to bitch about my frustrations. Pretending that everything is always rosy and such is not so healthy, I think. Conflicts are part of life. No matter how you try to justify it philosophically speaking. By avoiding all kinds of conflicts the pathologically "nice" (conflict-avoiders come to mind) tend to aggravate the problems in their lives. With a lot of negative consequences Then there can be all kinds of "niceness" with ulterior motives. Either short-term or long-term. And these can be a royal pain in the butt. Especially if you feel guilty for not returning any (unasked for) favor to the nice guy / girl. There has been research conducted on the subject. And yes, with doing somthing that was not asked for by someone else you stand to gain in the end, statistically speaking. That is, as a form of manipulation this is a somewhat effective tool. I rarely make jokes, unless I know people well. It also depends a bit on the person. With a prude I would not make jokes with sexual or moral undertones, and with people who know me, and know my positions on women's rights, I do not mind to make jokes on subjects like that at my own expense. Because we both would know where we stand on matters like that. For me it seems to be the civil thing - although I do not lack the ability to mortally insult some people. It is not hard to be nice. But the truly nice people do not expect or demand a reward for their efforts. A 5 day residential course (all meals and health spa facilities included, alcohol bill not covered) for $6000 per head, is this something you would be interested in attending? If the course is completely tax deductible, you might have one client, in the form of GoldPile. . But it would not be for the course. Of course, once in a while I get taken advantage of. I can live with that though. Bad things happen, and the only way to prevent being taken advantage of, is even worse for me to do.
RecordProducer Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 I don't have a problem with rejecting people when they ask for too much. But my mom used to have that problem and you could see her friends and in-laws riding her time. She is a translator so they would ask her to translate stuff for her or give them free classes. It didn't stop until I interfered. She gives people too much and then walks away when she realizes that they are not so nice and are using her. I've had a problem with people bugging me cuz they think they can; just because I am sweet to them never meant that I don't have self-respect and that's what has always pissed me off. I am kind cuz I am kind, that's all. Not because it means "Please walk all over me and I'll enjoy it." There is a wonderful little book about this, but I can't find the author, although I tried to goofle him. His name was something like Paul Hoke (but it's not that). He was talking about boundaries and level of tolerance. It's not taht you will tolerate EVERYTHING, it's that some people tolerate more than others. E.g. obce a girl asked me to help her with her marketing essay. being that marketing was my major at college, I gladly agreed. I told her that I will tell her all I know about teh subject and she can write down the essay and it's going to take an hour or so. She finally told me that she has no time so she will let me write the essay for her. I told her that I will certainly not do her homework, that I can only HELP her write it by suggesting what to write. She never came to me for that.
alphamale Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 It's not taht you will tolerate EVERYTHING, it's that some people tolerate more than others. The key it to have a healthy level of respect for yourself first while also having a helathy repect for others. This way you'll never get in trouble. Moderation in everything....don't be too nice, don't be too mean. Be in-between! hey, that rhymes...
Author lindya Posted October 28, 2005 Author Posted October 28, 2005 I'm a complete b*tch... bite me!! Propositioning me again, lk? Now I know it's Friday! I was taught by my parents to never complain, be grateful for whatever I had regardless of what it was, show gratitude always, be quiet unless you are saying only positive things, never allowed to cry or show negative emotion, everything you do has to be done so that others will see you in the best light, etc. For many years, I was "nice". I became a highly skilled needy emotional blackmailer with a gift for passive aggressive manipulation. My parents taught me well. My life was a constant cycle of loss because of this. [/quote] That's a tough one, LB. I guess parents see it as their job to socialise us and teach us manners...but sometimes they go so over the score in their attempts to produce nice, mannerly offspring that it reaps the results you describe. I suppose the test for parents is to teach their children how to be civilised without becoming a pushover. [QUOTE - d'Arthez]If the course is completely tax deductible, you might have one client, in the form of GoldPile. . But it would not be for the course. There is a wonderful little book about this, but I can't find the author, although I tried to goofle him. His name was something like Paul Hoke (but it's not that). He was talking about boundaries and level of tolerance. There is a wonderful little book about this, but I can't find the author, although I tried to goofle him. His name was something like Paul Hoke (but it's not that). He was talking about boundaries and level of tolerance. Yep. Aspiring to have boundaries that are more flexible than you can realistically cope, and to tolerate what you find intolerable is a nice little path to lots of problems. I'm sure most of us have made that mistake somewhere along the line. Oh bugger it - I tried to fix these quotes but can't.
Author lindya Posted October 28, 2005 Author Posted October 28, 2005 The key it to have a healthy level of respect for yourself first while also having a helathy repect for others. This way you'll never get in trouble. Moderation in everything....don't be too nice, don't be too mean. Be in-between! hey, that rhymes... So...be polite but honest, know your boundaries, respect other people's boundaries (eg don't throw a tantrum if they don't/can't adhere to the same boundaries as you)...but agree to separate if your opinions regarding appropriate boundaries differ so much that compromise is impossible and continuation of the relationship will cause great unhappiness to one or both parties. Hurray! Problem solved. Now where's the Hot Friday thread?
littlekitty Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 Propositioning me again, lk? Now I know it's Friday! Sure am... I've been stalking you all day Lindya!! I notice mine was the only quote that worked!!
slubberdegullion Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 Propositioning me again, lk? Now I know it's Friday! Sure am... I've been stalking you all day Lindya!! Oh jeez... howcum I have to live so far away from these two hotties???
littlekitty Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 You'll just have keep on imagining it slub!! That or hot foot it over to the UK...!! I'm sure we can fuel your fantasy though....!!
Author lindya Posted October 28, 2005 Author Posted October 28, 2005 You'll just have keep on imagining it slub!! That or hot foot it over to the UK...!! I'm sure we can fuel your fantasy though....!! This weekend, then LK. By the mushrooms. If you can look out your fishing rod, I'll dig out my stick that has the red spotted hankie tied to the end.
littlekitty Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 This weekend, then LK. By the mushrooms. If you can look out your fishing rod, I'll dig out my stick that has the red spotted hankie tied to the end. Done! I've dug out the fishing rod, so it's ready and waiting. I'll be to the left of the red mushroom, in the yellow pixie hat, and a rather fetching green jacket. Oh and http://www.freethegnomes.com/....
she_9325 Posted October 28, 2005 Posted October 28, 2005 i completely agree with LB and littlekitty. i'm comfortably in the middle.
Author lindya Posted October 28, 2005 Author Posted October 28, 2005 Oh and http://www.freethegnomes.com/.... I agree with this organisation's mission, and I've written a sad little poem as a gesture of support. "Nice" it may be, your quaint little home But I tell you this...it's no place for a gnome He is trapped in your garden - like hairs in a comb... It should not this way. Set him free. Let him roam. Do you think the website would want to publish it?
slubberdegullion Posted October 31, 2005 Posted October 31, 2005 Lindya; Clear your PM in-box please.
littlekitty Posted October 31, 2005 Posted October 31, 2005 I agree with this organisation's mission, and I've written a sad little poem as a gesture of support. "Nice" it may be, your quaint little home But I tell you this...it's no place for a gnome He is trapped in your garden - like hairs in a comb... It should not this way. Set him free. Let him roam. Do you think the website would want to publish it? *sniff* It's utterly poetic.... I'm sure they would publish it!! :D
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