Flirting or not?

[Curiousgrl]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

That she preferred an online friendship doesn't make it fake.  It's simply not the kind of connection you were after. 

That’s true.  Not being upfront about lunch doesn’t necessarily mean our conversations prior to that were untrue.  I guess it just felt that way.  Or like there’s be some level of caring so you’d be honest but maybe she sees things differently.  It just sucks.

[Curiousgrl]

2 hours ago, glows said:

Curious how she benefits from the friendship - do you mean professionally? 

Follow a person’s actions. I can see why you felt frustrated and misled. This isn’t going to end well staying in contact. 

It’s too much here. Step back next time and let someone ask you for help. The kinds of things you’re doing and expecting in return are very one sided. She doesn’t seem like she wants your help. She’d rather risk doing it alone or hurting herself than having anything to do with you so while that hurts it’s also a wake up call. She doesn’t want the offer of help.

It’s better to stay away from now on, focus on other friends and let her figure things out on her own.

It feels like damned if you do damned if you don’t.  Someone said I wasn’t making enough effort and then you make the effort and she doesn’t want it but says she wants to get together so why not just say what you really want.  I think I’m just going to cut contact.  It doesn’t seem like she cares very much and I’m not sure if she was honest before or not and it’s a lot to take in. 

[Curiousgrl]

2 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

The only conclusion is: this woman is thoroughly unreliable. And if you trust her and develop hope for a relationship with her (probably any kind!) you are only going to be disappointed. Her fickle unreliability will show up again. BTW: there are plenty of people like this. Oh God, a confession: I was hot and cold like this with women in my mid 20's. Why? Because I was immature and couldn't figure out whether I really liked someone for romance or not. And I could not have articulated my "problem" at the time. My life was all over the place. I wasn't consistent with myself--how could I be reliable and consistent for another person?

All the confident women I dabbled with, when I did the flakey thing, they just disappeared. And if I went silent for weeks and called one of them, they didn't respond. They wasted no time on me. After flaking on them once, they'd pull back realizing they didn't know exactly what was wrong with me, but they knew SOMETHING was wrong! 

Stay away and trust your instincts. You're doing this great description of what's happening and then ignoring the only conclusion to draw from your summary, which is to stay the heck away from this person. 

 

We talked for so long it was easy to believe her when I felt like her actions didn’t add up with what she was saying… when I confronted her she just bailed

[glows]

2 hours ago, Curiousgrl said:

Yes professionally 

Keep things professional only. If she’s avoiding meeting in person don’t read into it. She is just not that interested in spending time in person. And by professional that may also mean reevaluating the ways you “help”.

Avoid sticking your neck out for people who are consciously avoiding you or don’t follow through with their words. Learn to read the room and not take things so literally. I get the strong feeling you depend heavily on words. That’s not how the real world works.

7 minutes ago, Curiousgrl said:

It feels like damned if you do damned if you don’t.  Someone said I wasn’t making enough effort and then you make the effort and she doesn’t want it but says she wants to get together so why not just say what you really want.  I think I’m just going to cut contact.  It doesn’t seem like she cares very much and I’m not sure if she was honest before or not and it’s a lot to take in. 

No, she doesn’t seem to care very much at all. I’m glad you’re finally seeing this. It’s ok to let go of this one. Keep connecting with friends in real time and enjoy your other friendships.

Edited December 21, 2022 by glows

[Curiousgrl]

23 minutes ago, glows said:

Keep things professional only. If she’s avoiding meeting in person don’t read into it. She is just not that interested in spending time in person. And by professional that may also mean reevaluating the ways you “help”.

Avoid sticking your neck out for people who are consciously avoiding you or don’t follow through with their words. Learn to read the room and not take things so literally. I get the strong feeling you depend heavily on words. That’s not how the real world works.

No, she doesn’t seem to care very much at all. I’m glad you’re finally seeing this. It’s ok to let go of this one. Keep connecting with friends in real time and enjoy your other friendships.

No normally I go by intuition.  I kept at it because if felt like she was holding back something and there was more to it.  Normally my intuition is right, but was good enough to fool me

[hmmhmmm2]

Its hard to tell if she was flirting, but I can say I have seen plenty of times a girl would send kind words to another girl as a means to manipulate her. Either way, judging by her attitude and behavior, honestly, I would just block her, remove her from your life, and invest in relationships that support you and build you up. She does not seem like a good person at all.

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, Curiousgrl said:

.  I think I’m just going to cut contact. 

Sorry this happened. That may be the best recourse since she seems like a mere acquaintance or fair whether friend at best. Focus instead on real life real friends you can trust and see in person.

[introverted1]

14 hours ago, Curiousgrl said:

She started up the connection again not me and brought up lunch the second time.

 From what you wrote, it appears you brought up lunch the second time:

15 hours ago, Curiousgrl said:

 I asked why we never went to lunch because it’s really easy for us to talk to each other.  Like we’ve been close for years kinda thing… and she said she didn’t know and we should go to lunch.

I'm not sure why you are chasing this woman.  Some people are not meant to be close friends.  It's pretty clear she's one of them.

 

[stillafool]

12 hours ago, Curiousgrl said:

 I think I’m just going to cut contact.  It doesn’t seem like she cares very much and I’m not sure if she was honest before or not and it’s a lot to take in. 

This is the  best attitude to take towards her and I agree with you she doesn't care much for you so just cut contact with her and stop trying to be her friend.  She isn't welcoming your friendship.

[poppyfields]

@Curiousgrlrelationships and friendships come in all shapes and sizes.  Try to accept each one separate from the other and value what each friendship/relationship brings to your life. 

I'm not sure why you place such value and importance on a lunch.  Serious question. 

It's possible your friend has social anxiety or other social.issues such that she prefers her friendships and other relationships on line, there are people like this, many in fact.

You said she has supported you emotionally throughout the years and you her, 10 years.  She's been a good friend to you.

OK you never got together in person but the friendship added value to your life nonetheless.

Please don't take this the wrong way because I'm trying to help you but based on your posts and how I'm interpreting them, you're quite intense about this and frankly a bit obsessive.  

Your friend most likely felt this as well, hence her distance at times.  It would certainly trouble me if a friend kept pressuring me the way you appear to be doing, in her eyes anyway.   And I'd back away too. 

I have on-line friends I have never met and friends since grammar school who live 3000+ miles away who I very rarely see.  Once every two years or so.

These friendships provide great value to me and my life, there is no "rule" that states a friendship must be in person, it can still be valuable and add to your life in a positive way. 

That's the beauty of the internet, people can make and maintain friendships and even have romantic involvements with people from all over the world!

Doesn't mean they're narcissistic or any other derogatory label one is inclined to attach to them.

My suggestion is to try and change your frame about this and accept her for who she is and what she brings to your life.

Try to not place expectations based on what you want and how you choose to interact with friends.  Or what anyone else thinks or how they choose to interact with friends.

Something I've learned over the years is that everyone is different with different reactions and different ways of living life and conducting their friendships and relationships.

That said, if you are in love with her or have a romantic attraction, what I posted doesn't apply.  That is an entirely different thing.

My post was geared more towards friendships. 

All the best..

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

To add, regarding the flirting, you should hear what my friends and I tell each other!

We're like our very own mutual admiration society telling each other how beautiful we look, love that outfit, you look so pretty today, you have the loveliest eyes, your hair!! Lol

Etc etc.

It's not flirting, it's just how female friends talk to each other, we like to build each other up!

Which is perhaps what your friend was doing as well or trying to do with her legs comment.

Edited December 21, 2022 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

>>I asked why we never went to lunch because it’s really easy for us to talk to each other.  Like we’ve been close for years kinda thing… and she said she didn’t know and we should go to lunch.<<

@Curiousgrl, I could not find your original post so cut and pasted the above from another where it was quoted. 

This is what I meant by your intensity.  And why she may have felt pressured.  

Again, why such importance on a lunch? 

If she has social anxiety, which is way more common than you might think, no doubt this constant pressure to go to lunch caused her even more anxiety!

I'm not saying this breakdown is all your fault I'm just explaining that friendships or any relationship involve two people and how they interact with each other.

Try to see it from HER perspective and how this pressure to go to lunch might have caused HER to react in specific ways. 

Such that you assume she doesn't care which may NOT be true at all! 

Do you honesty believe she wouid have been a good friend to you, supported you, been there for you, for ten years, if she didn't care? 

What am I missing? 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by poppyfields

[NuevoYorko]

This has been going on for a decade ... I think "it is what it is" at this point.  Either be online friends, whether that includes flirting or not, or cut contact.  Whichever feels more authentic for you. 

Many people who are comfortable with "virtual" social lives never intend to take them live.  I'm a member of a very tight knit group online.  We share a lot and live in various countries.  One time I went to where a few of them live; I was planning to meet 3 and all of them changed plans at the last minute.  I didn't take it personally though I was sad not to meet.  

Edited December 21, 2022 by NuevoYorko

[Curiousgrl]

14 hours ago, mlssufan01 said:

Its hard to tell if she was flirting, but I can say I have seen plenty of times a girl would send kind words to another girl as a means to manipulate her. Either way, judging by her attitude and behavior, honestly, I would just block her, remove her from your life, and invest in relationships that support you and build you up. She does not seem like a good person at all.

Ya, that kinda makes sense.  It would explain a lot.  She can be really nice and then her actions say something different.

[Curiousgrl]

6 hours ago, introverted1 said:

 From what you wrote, it appears you brought up lunch the second time:

I'm not sure why you are chasing this woman.  Some people are not meant to be close friends.  It's pretty clear she's one of them.

 

She said we should go to lunch and I asked why we didn’t the first time and she just said we should go to lunch.  She never gave a reason which at the time I didn’t play a lot into it because it didn’t feel right. Like why not say why we didn’t go the first time.  She made ir sound like her now ex was really awful to her so I assumed maybe he was controlling or something.  It’s ironic because several people eluded to her being a narcissist and she always said that about her ex. Said he was manipulative etc…. But I kinda did get that vibe from her a little.  I guess I’m always upfront with people so I didn’t see what the issue is.  I’m busy so just say what you mean.  But if she was using me it would be counter productive for her because once she basically tells me that I’d be like peace I’m not yours to use.  Soo I guess hindsight I assumed she wasn’t lying and couldn’t figure why she wouldn’t just say what the issue was.  Reality was she was and couldn’t because it would expose her game.

[Curiousgrl]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

@Curiousgrlrelationships and friendships come in all shapes and sizes.  Try to accept each one separate from the other and value what each friendship/relationship brings to your life. 

I'm not sure why you place such value and importance on a lunch.  Serious question. 

It's possible your friend has social anxiety or other social.issues such that she prefers her friendships and other relationships on line, there are people like this, many in fact.

You said she has supported you emotionally throughout the years and you her, 10 years.  She's been a good friend to you.

OK you never got together in person but the friendship added value to your life nonetheless.

Please don't take this the wrong way because I'm trying to help you but based on your posts and how I'm interpreting them, you're quite intense about this and frankly a bit obsessive.  

Your friend most likely felt this as well, hence her distance at times.  It would certainly trouble me if a friend kept pressuring me the way you appear to be doing, in her eyes anyway.   And I'd back away too. 

I have on-line friends I have never met and friends since grammar school who live 3000+ miles away who I very rarely see.  Once every two years or so.

These friendships provide great value to me and my life, there is no "rule" that states a friendship must be in person, it can still be valuable and add to your life in a positive way. 

That's the beauty of the internet, people can make and maintain friendships and even have romantic involvements with people from all over the world!

Doesn't mean they're narcissistic or any other derogatory label one is inclined to attach to them.

My suggestion is to try and change your frame about this and accept her for who she is and what she brings to your life.

Try to not place expectations based on what you want and how you choose to interact with friends.  Or what anyone else thinks or how they choose to interact with friends.

Something I've learned over the years is that everyone is different with different reactions and different ways of living life and conducting their friendships and relationships.

That said, if you are in love with her or have a romantic attraction, what I posted doesn't apply.  That is an entirely different thing.

My post was geared more towards friendships. 

All the best..

 

 

Her job requires her to be social and she has party’s at her house every year for Halloween and Christmas and for her kids etc…. She does the subdivision parties.  She plays sports on an adult team…  so I kinda ruled out social anxiety.  He once cancelled on me to play sports another time to go to the gym.  Things we could do together.  For me I started to feel used.  I don’t disagree.  The obsessive part is that I trusted her for so long and confided in her very private things so to realize she most likely just used it as a way to “make a file on me” to use to benefit herself later started to eat at me, as is not meeting in person makes me believe this was the case and it’s possible her sharing with me was nothin more than her trying to draw our things she maybe able to use against me for her benefit.  I didn’t want this to be true and wanted her to just be honest with me.  I’m very cautious about who I allow around myself and who I’m friends with and I feel like she played me.  When I became friends with her it was social suicide, but I felt she was misunderstood and have always had a place for people who are bullied and outcast, but she’s kinda turned and does this to others which I don’t really like but didn’t think was really her as more coming from a place of hurt.  It’s just a lot and confusing.  I lost my parents in the process and had to cut off several family members and she kinda wasn’t there and made me feel very abandoned. 

[Curiousgrl]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

To add, regarding the flirting, you should hear what my friends and I tell each other!

We're like our very own mutual admiration society telling each other how beautiful we look, love that outfit, you look so pretty today, you have the loveliest eyes, your hair!! Lol

Etc etc.

It's not flirting, it's just how female friends talk to each other, we like to build each other up!

Which is perhaps what your friend was doing as well or trying to do with her legs comment.

See I thought that too as I’m the same way with gfs but this girl isn’t that kinda girl.  When I first asked her if she too talks this way in general or is she flirting she ignored me.  Because I initially assumed maybe she was just being friendly… or trying to be… but us not going to lunch and her being kinda off and it was the time she was getting divorced I thought maybe I missed something and hurt her feelings.  I asked on a few occasions if she was flirting and she never answered.  After being blown off I kinda got upset and told her if she’s not flirting why not say so and if she is it’s ok.  I want her to be her. Then she was like oh no not flirting.. so I feel like I kinda forced her to say something.  Everything with her became so complicated.  After the leg thing communication became kinda different and she was kinda distant so I feel like I didn’t react as she wanted and hurt her feelings… I just told her thanks and she didn’t make much effort so we didn’t talk much at the time.  I was really busy and hurt she blew me off. 

[Curiousgrl]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

>>I asked why we never went to lunch because it’s really easy for us to talk to each other.  Like we’ve been close for years kinda thing… and she said she didn’t know and we should go to lunch.<<

@Curiousgrl, I could not find your original post so cut and pasted the above from another where it was quoted. 

This is what I meant by your intensity.  And why she may have felt pressured.  

Again, why such importance on a lunch? 

If she has social anxiety, which is way more common than you might think, no doubt this constant pressure to go to lunch caused her even more anxiety!

I'm not saying this breakdown is all your fault I'm just explaining that friendships or any relationship involve two people and how they interact with each other.

Try to see it from HER perspective and how this pressure to go to lunch might have caused HER to react in specific ways. 

Such that you assume she doesn't care which may NOT be true at all! 

Do you honesty believe she wouid have been a good friend to you, supported you, been there for you, for ten years, if she didn't care? 

What am I missing? 

 

If she cares why not just say she needs space and it’s not about me.  So I at least know.  Blowing me off over and over just makes me more upset and I feel used.

[Curiousgrl]

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

This has been going on for a decade ... I think "it is what it is" at this point.  Either be online friends, whether that includes flirting or not, or cut contact.  Whichever feels more authentic for you. 

Many people who are comfortable with "virtual" social lives never intend to take them live.  I'm a member of a very tight knit group online.  We share a lot and live in various countries.  One time I went to where a few of them live; I was planning to meet 3 and all of them changed plans at the last minute.  I didn't take it personally though I was sad not to meet.  

She plays sportsand hosts all the subdivision parties… I don’t feel like social anxiety is the issue…

[poppyfields]

35 minutes ago, Curiousgrl said:

If she cares why not just say she needs space and it’s not about me.  So I at least know.  Blowing me off over and over just makes me more upset and I feel used.

If you felt/feel used and blown off, may I ask why you simply didn't walk away from the friendship?   I mean no offense but why all the analyzing and pointing fingers?  I've had many friends throughout my life, some have blown me off, some I have blown off, some friendships simply faded out, nothing needed to be said.  We just grew apart or they or I moved away, whatever.

She is who she is and you are who you are.  Obviously your virtual friendship served a purpose for many years, you posted how you've been there for each other, the sharing, the long talks, etc.   

Okay so somewhere along the line it broke down which happens sometimes with friendships, they run their course.   At that point, the two people move on and you cherish the good times.

This happens all the time, it's sad but as @NuevoYorkoit is what it is, it's life.

Are you in love with her?  Are you heartbroken she didn't want it to evolve into a romantic involvement?  Is that why you're upset about this lunch that never happened and other expectations she failed to meet?

I'm sorry I just never heard of anyone being this upset and obsessed about a friendship ending such that they need to point fingers, badmouth the person and accuse them of using you and being a narcissist, etc.

You have agency here.  Wish her well and walk away.  It really is that simple.

Good luck moving forward.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by poppyfields

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Curiousgrl said:

If she cares why not just say she needs space and it’s not about me.  So I at least know.  Blowing me off over and over just makes me more upset and I feel used.

She doesn't say it directly because she assumes you can read between the lines.

[Curiousgrl]

4 hours ago, poppyfields said:

If you felt/feel used and blown off, may I ask why you simply didn't walk away from the friendship?   I mean no offense but why all the analyzing and pointing fingers?  I've had many friends throughout my life, some have blown me off, some I have blown off, some friendships simply faded out, nothing needed to be said.  We just grew apart or they or I moved away, whatever.

She is who she is and you are who you are.  Obviously your virtual friendship served a purpose for many years, you posted how you've been there for each other, the sharing, the long talks, etc.   

Okay so somewhere along the line it broke down which happens sometimes with friendships, they run their course.   At that point, the two people move on and you cherish the good times.

This happens all the time, it's sad but as @NuevoYorkoit is what it is, it's life.

Are you in love with her?  Are you heartbroken she didn't want it to evolve into a romantic involvement?  Is that why you're upset about this lunch that never happened and other expectations she failed to meet?

I'm sorry I just never heard of anyone being this upset and obsessed about a friendship ending such that they need to point fingers, badmouth the person and accuse them of using you and being a narcissist, etc.

You have agency here.  Wish her well and walk away.  It really is that simple.

Good luck moving forward.

 

 

I didn’t bad mouth or point fingers.  I didn’t say she was narcissistic.  Someone else suggested it as a possibility.  Didn’t point fingers.  I had a lot of respect for her so I take full responsibility for the fact that I wanted her to pay that back and be honest with me.  I feel upset because we’ve shared so much and been friends for so long it just seems odd she wouldn’t want to continue that in person.  Or at least tell me why.  Or maybe give some explanation.  That’s why I’m upset.  I’ve given her the benefit of the doubt and blamed it on maybe bad timing or whatever but I think I’ve eliminated those as scenarios as I’ve spent a year trying.  She’s not antisocial.  I kept trying because why would she lie to me.  But I feel after a year it feels like I’ve been lied to and I think continuing to fall for whatever makes me stupid.  There is a rational answer she could give me but she doesn’t see fit so ya there upsetting after this amount of take and sharing personal things 

[stillafool]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

She doesn't say it directly because she assumes you can read between the lines.

If someone treated me the way she treats you I would quickly get the hint that this person wants nothing to do with me and leave her alone.  

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, Curiousgrl said:

 I feel upset because we’ve shared so much and been friends for so long it just seems odd she wouldn’t want to continue that in person.  Or at least tell me why.  Or maybe give some explanation.  That’s why I’m upset.

She won't even go to lunch with you yet you keep talking about how much you've shared.  This girl is trying to ditch you at every turn and she doesn't owe you Jack.  She has every right not to chose you as a friend and to not be harrassed about it.  She doesn't have to explain to you why she doesn't want to be your friend.  Find someone else who does.  This isn't your first thread about this girl and she may find you creepy at this point.

[poppyfields]

31 minutes ago, stillafool said:

She won't even go to lunch with you yet you keep talking about how much you've shared.  This girl is trying to ditch you at every turn and she doesn't owe you Jack.  She has every right not to chose you as a friend and to not be harrassed about it.  She doesn't have to explain to you why she doesn't want to be your friend.  Find someone else who does.  This isn't your first thread about this girl and she may find you creepy at this point.

Agree and I think what's bolded is more than possible and precisely why she didn't want to have lunch or meet in person.  I'm sorry.

It appears she has been trying to distance herself from you for quite some time (a year?), but you kept pushing which explains very clearly why she responded to you the way she did.

She didn't "use" you, she's not a bad person, your friendship wasn't fake, it was an on-line friendship that simply ran its course.  I've been through it, most of us have.

It's sad but we accept it and move on.  Maybe learn something from the experience.

Please for your sake and mental health, try to accept it and move on.

Your obsession about this isn't healthy, it's quite troubling actually.

Edited December 22, 2022 by poppyfields