Is he interested or not?

[Wiseman2]

18 hours ago, lovesfool said:

. He cancelled our date AGAIN. he said it completely slipped his mind . 

Take control. End it. You'll be a lot happier getting flakes and uninterested men out of your life.

[JTSW]

15 hours ago, lovesfool said:

Why do I always fail every time I find a guy I like. 

He failed. Not you.

You gave him many chances for a date and he failed.

He's not the guy for you.

Yeah, the attention is nice but there are too many disappointments already.

Very bad sign.

There are great guys out there.

[lovesfool]

Are there any hard and fast rules when someone flakes? I'm always overthinking and then come here for advice which usually isn't what I want to hear!

I'm even wondering if it's normal for me to be creating threads every time I've a dating issue. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are able to date casually and something like this wouldn't be a problem for them. 

[basil67]

12 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

Are there any hard and fast rules when someone flakes? I'm always overthinking and then come here for advice which usually isn't what I want to hear!

I'm even wondering if it's normal for me to be creating threads every time I've a dating issue. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are able to date casually and something like this wouldn't be a problem for them. 

No relationship rules are hard and fast, but there are certainly generalities.  You said that you have a history of flaking and that it's generally because you're unsure/not very interested in the guy.  I'd say that this would be the most common cause of flaking.   

With regards to creating threads, I don't like the word "normal".  But hey, these forums exist so they are certainly meeting a need in the community.  Perhaps turn it around and ask yourself why you need to create threads?  I would speculate that you don't trust yourself to make good decisions....but only you know the truth

[NuevoYorko]

Not hard and fast rules.  I would say for your own mental health and potential for a successful (real life) relationship in your future, though, you need to stop moving the goal posts to accommodate for whatever kind of nonsense a guy decides to toss your way. 

If you WANT to find someone to date IN PERSON,  and you are trying to figure out whether he is interested, as you appeared to do in this thread - all you have to go on are the interactions you have with a virtual stranger.  And, that's plenty.  If you're in contact with someone you don't know and who isn't even a friend of a friend of yours, you really owe it to yourself to NOT make any excuses for the guy and just BELIEVE what he is showing   (not necessarily telling) you, for the most part.  NO EXCUSES.  

This guy left zero room for doubt:  He had low interest in doing anything with you that involved actually being physically in the same place at the same time.

If you want to have an "online boyfriend" with whom you just text, maybe sext / facetime etc.  you probably won't get a tremendous amount of support for it here because, really, these are "fantasy relationships" and  leave WAY too much room for people to fill in all the blanks with stuff from their imagination.  People tend to apply the standards of a real life relationship upon these online deals and it's just not going to hold up.

You were doing that with this guy.   Maybe you and he can have a fine fantasy relationship.  It would be a disaster to try to actually date a guy who started off this lackluster.   

But, you lost everybody here because you did present it like you were interested in REAL LIFE DATING and a relationship which would involve two people integrating each other into their day to day lives.  

You've said you've flaked a lot yourself.  I looked at some of your past threads and saw that a bf broke up with you because you didn't have enough time to spend with him.  Do you REALLY want a boyfriend?  Maybe you just want to meet people?  Maybe you want a virtual relatioshiop where nobody needs to compromise much?  What do YOU want, and what are YOU willing to put in to achieve that?  

Edited December 19, 2022 by NuevoYorko

[poppyfields]

27 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

Are there any hard and fast rules when someone flakes? 

@lovesfool, imo and experience there are NO hard and fast rules (see my previous post on that).

For example, some people will flake because they lack interest OR some people flake due to social anxiety OR some people flake because they are not mentally ready to date.

The list goes on.

For me, I have flaked before (not proud to admit) and tbh I almost flaked on my husband!  My reason was extreme anxiety.  

We had been chatting on line for about a week, I really REALLY liked him and became so nervous and anxious before the date/meet, I had broken out in a cold sweat and nearly cancelled.

My friends talked me out of it and we met.  We got married last July and the rest is history.

So there is no one right answer, everyone and every couple is different.  

Define the "rules" for yourself/selves.

Like I said in previous, you don't even need to meet in person if you don't want to.   Continue chatting and meet when you're both ready.

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by poppyfields

[NuevoYorko]

One thing to be aware of:  Relationships are rarely super easy.   You need a strong bond and foundation to get through the tougher times.  If your early dating times were basically a guy forgetting about you and making very weak excuses about why not to get together, you can almost bank on never developing a strong enough connection to make it through any difficulties.  

[glows]

49 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

Are there any hard and fast rules when someone flakes? I'm always overthinking and then come here for advice which usually isn't what I want to hear!

I'm even wondering if it's normal for me to be creating threads every time I've a dating issue. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are able to date casually and something like this wouldn't be a problem for them. 

I tend to think emergencies warrant a change of plans but flaking in general doesn’t sit well for plenty of people after the second, third, fourth time it happens. The point is going back and asking yourself why you’re giving someone so many chances to treat you poorly/not value your time.

I caught something on the previous page about you feeling lonely and wanting someone - it comes through a lot in your posts. That’s a void you’ll have to work through because you’ll keep finding yourself compromising your needs and values for someone and that person doesn’t even respect you enough to show up or give you the time of day. 

Are there ways you can feel better about yourself without needing the company of a boyfriend? Relationships are complementary, not a necessity from the way I tend to view it.

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, lovesfool said:

Are there any hard and fast rules when someone flakes? 

Yes. You make the rules. You decide if people wasting your time is acceptable or not. You decide if someone is disrespectful. You decide if unreliable people or uninterested men are worth your time and energy.

So, yes there are hard and fast rules. You make them for yourself as standards of self respect.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Wiseman2

[lovesfool]

11 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

One thing to be aware of:  Relationships are rarely super easy.   You need a strong bond and foundation to get through the tougher times.  If your early dating times were basically a guy forgetting about you and making very weak excuses about why not to get together, you can almost bank on never developing a strong enough connection to make it through any difficulties.  

This is not what I need to hear! I can't even get by the early stages of dating for it to even develop into a relationship. What hope do I have if I keep falling at the first hurdle.

11 hours ago, poppyfields said:

@lovesfool, imo and experience there are NO hard and fast rules (see my previous post on that).

For example, some people will flake because they lack interest OR some people flake due to social anxiety OR some people flake because they are not mentally ready to date.

The list goes on.

For me, I have flaked before (not proud to admit) and tbh I almost flaked on my husband!  My reason was extreme anxiety.  

We had been chatting on line for about a week, I really REALLY liked him and became so nervous and anxious before the date/meet, I had broken out in a cold sweat and nearly cancelled.

My friends talked me out of it and we met.  We got married last July and the rest is history.

So there is no one right answer, everyone and every couple is different.  

Define the "rules" for yourself/selves.

Like I said in previous, you don't even need to meet in person if you don't want to.   Continue chatting and meet when you're both ready.

 

You know I did consider that he may be very anxious. He mentioned that he was an anxious person before, and an overthinker. He didn't come across like that in person though, but I can imagine he might be as he said he was very overweight when he was young and the anxiety may have stuck with him.

[NuevoYorko]

6 hours ago, lovesfool said:

This is not what I need to hear! I can't even get by the early stages of dating for it to even develop into a relationship. What hope do I have if I keep falling at the first hurdle 

You have some very unrealistic ideas about how relationships develop.   One think I can tell you with 100% certainty:  If you refuse to take information you're receiving seriously, you will "fall at the first hurdle" every time.  

I have doubts as to whether you really want to be in a relationship.   You've invested in clearly unavailable men.  Also you've been unavailable yourself - per your thread where your bf broke up because your relationship was not progressing and your personal pursuits were always taking precedence.  That is not wrong.  There is a time and a place for everything.  But if you really want a partner, you owe it to YOURSELF to be realistic about the person in front of you, and you owe it to both of you to prioritize the relationship to certain extents, which change as the commitment develops.  

6 hours ago, lovesfool said:

You know I did consider that he may be very anxious. He mentioned that he was an anxious person before, and an overthinker. He didn't come across like that in person though, but I can imagine he might be as he said he was very overweight when he was young and the anxiety may have stuck with him.

 

Did it even affect your feelings at all when this guy was so dismissive of you?  You seem as if it was all just fine from your perspective, and now here you are bothering to do armchair analysis on this guy.  His psychology doesn't matter to you, if you're interested in a relationship.

But maybe you really want to be texting buddies with someone or even have some kind of LDR or deal with a prisoner, where all the nice words are in place but there will be no expectation or even realistic possibility to put any of it into real life action?

[Calmandfocused]

Loves, I’ve just read this entire thread. 
 

My overall impression of it is that you need to love and respect yourself more. That includes sticking up for yourself and acting in your best interests at all time. 
 

I nearly fell off my chair when reading the part that you are “hurt” that you broke the “connection” with flaky guy. Huh? 
 

You have a right to feel how you feel Loves,  however I feel that your emotions are misplaced. This could be a reason why you keep making unhealthy dating choices for yourself, and why you don’t act in your best interests. 
 

How about feeling “hurt” about the fact he forgot about you? How about feeling hurt about the fact that he cancelled 3 out of 4 dates? How about feeling hurt about the fact that you were low priority to him and he was using you for an ego boost by text? 
 

All of these reasons would be valid reasons to feel hurt, however you feel hurt because YOU broke the connection? 
Loves the “connection” only existed in your perception. If there ever was a connection  HE was the one who broke it by being a flake. Please stop internalising and questioning yourself. 
 

In any event your rejection of him was way too passive. Poppyfields got that spot on. Never leave the door open for this guy. He doesn’t deserve that and you need to put yourself first and set your standards higher. 
 

 

[poppyfields]

2 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

I have doubts as to whether you really want to be in a relationship.   You've invested in clearly unavailable men.  Also you've been unavailable yourself - per your thread where your bf broke up because your relationship was not progressing and your personal pursuits were always taking precedence.  That is not wrong.  There is a time and a place for everything.  But if you really want a partner, you owe it to YOURSELF to be realistic about the person in front of you, and you owe it to both of you to prioritize the relationship to certain extents, which change as the commitment develops.  

@lovesfoolI very much agree with the above.  As was mentioned previously, unavailable people attract unavailable people.   Water attracts its own level.

Where my thinking differs from some is that I don't believe life and love are so black and white to say with certainty that the reason he flaked was/is disinterest.  In fact, he told you of his anxiety, his overthinking which I have always believed is one of the main reasons people flake.   Even more than disinterest because if they weren't interested, they wouldn't bother continuing to message and they wouldn't have bothered making the date in the first place.   

Once the date approaches, their overthinking and anxiety takes over and any excuse will do to cancel.   I have heard some doozies myself from my friends and also from a few men.  When I suffered from extreme anxiety, I was also pretty creative in thinking up some crazy excuses.  That's what anxiety will do a person, it causes them to scramble around looking for an exit.

I am not saying it's right and it's certainly not healthy, but it's the reality for many people, including yourself, admittedly.

This is why I think you were more understanding than most about his flaking and didn't take it as personally.  Because you can RELATE to it, because on some level, you are unavailable and have flaked yourself.

So here's the thing.  You wrote earlier you cut it off (due mostly to responses here) and were sad.  You miss his "good morning" texts, you miss talking and interacting with him.

So why did you cut him off?  We cut people off when they're making us UNHAPPY, not when they make us happy. 

It doesn't matter what others (or society) thinks, what do YOU think, what do YOU want, what makes YOU happy?

Relationships/situationships/interactions can take many shapes and forms.  I know couples in happy fulfilling relationships who have NEVER met each other in person!  But THEY are happy and isn't that all that matters?

I don't know what's going on with this guy, I have never talked to him so how would I know?  How would anyone know?

YOU have been talking to him and you have the power to ask questions and learn what's at the heart of his flaking.

You KNOW he didn't forget, that was a ridiculous excuse and you know that.  No one forgets a date unless they're mentally challenged which I gather he isn't.

It was an excuse, but why?  Talk to him, find out.   Be open with him about your unavailability too.  Like attracts like, there is a common ground there, start with that.

On the other hand, if you truly get the sense he's not interested and just some "player" who enjoys stringing women along, then dump him and go no contact.

Good luck!!

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by poppyfields

[Alpacalia]

OP you have met this man ONCE.

It's possible you're overlooking the fact that he's actually using his anxiety as an excuse for not meeting with you. Are you comfortable giving someone a crucial position in your life who has bailed on you three times at the last minute and created so much internal conflict?

Edited December 20, 2022 by Alpacalia

[poppyfields]

@loves to add to my previous, I recommend a great book for you to read, it's entitled "He's Scared, She's Scared - The Hidden Fears that Sabotage Our Relationships;" it was (still is) quite popular and I personally learned A LOT from it.  From reading your posts and about your own tendency to flake and become unavailable when men are interested in you, I think it might help you too.  

It discusses both active and passive fears that cause some people to run away from relationships, run away from people we like and are attracted to.   In fact, believe it or not the more they like someone, the greater the fear!!  

It's about ANXIETY.

The active runner (in this case your guy friend) actively runs by breaking dates, disappearing, etc.

The passive runner (you) are drawn to this person and will proceed to chase him.

Two sides of the SAME coin so to speak.   The coin being fear and anxiety.  For you, because he remains so elusive and distant he feels safe to you.  He won't suffocate you, cramp your style, disrupt your life and you have plenty of time to dream and fantasize instead of being actively involved in a mutually-rewarding healthy relationship.

You claim you want a relationship but what often happens is IF he ever were to become available the way you claim you want him to be, YOU will then become the active runner, flaking, breaking dates etc.

It's never-ending cycle of hot/cold and push/pull.

Anyway, there is so much more, too much to get into here, but I highly recommend you read the book for insight and understanding into your own choices and behavior and those of the person you choose.

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by poppyfields

[lovesfool]

Happy New year everyone. Thanks for all the advice. Just to give an update, a few days before Christmas he messaged me to meet for a date. He suddenly became very keen to meet, possibly because of how I reacted to being cancelled on a third time. On the date he sincerely apologised for cancelling. He even said he asked his female friends if he should bring a gift to say sorry and they advised him against it! I thought it was quite sweet.

We've gone on four dates in total now. They've all gone really well and we seem to click, and he is very interested in me which is a relief!

I like him as well, but I can't help but think I'm going to spoil things by overthinking again. I'm not sure whether this should be another post or not, but there are a few things that have my mind wondering whether he is suitable or not. It seems like I can't settle for anything less than perfection! 

The big one I'm worried about is sexual compatibility. I feel like I'm going to sound shallow, but I tend to only go for men who take care of their bodies. So someone who is athletic or exercises regularly. He is very much into his fitness, and- goes to the gym 6 days a week! But I'm worried that he has a lot of residual fat or excess skin from his huge weight loss. While he doesn't look overweight at all when looking at him (clothed), he has dropped hints to me about his body like saying that he has accepted he will never get the beach body he wants and that he would be self-conscious in a pool with others.

I have to admit, we got into an intimate situation and I had to pull myself away from it going further, even though I was enjoying myself. I saw that he was wearing a tight vest underneath his shirt (which I've never seen men his age do) and I got it into my head that he was trying to squeeze his body to appear slimmer. Then my mind started racing and I was really worried about how I would react if he took off his shirt and it wasn't what I was hoping for. It's so shallow, I know, but I'm really worried about not being physically attracted to him. It's in my head now and I don't know how to take the next step. Is the only way to address it is to get into an intimate situation again and see how I feel? It would be horrible to get to that point and just say "I'm not feeling it".

I always seem to find some problem when dating, or maybe I just attract issues.

[NuevoYorko]

When he blew you off all those times, you should have just walked away.   It's pretty hard to have any support to offer you.  The guy was clearly not ready for this but you refused to take the blazing hints.   Now you're on the verge of dumping him because of his body.   Poor fellow.  

[Weezy1973]

20 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

It's so shallow, I know, but I'm really worried about not being physically attracted to him.

If there was real chemistry between the two of you, you wouldn’t be thinking like this. You’ve been out a few times and it’s gone well, but doesn’t seem like your feeling have progressed too much. I dated a woman once where the initial chemistry was off the charts. She had had a double mastectomy because of breast cancer, and it didn’t occur to me to worry about it. And when we did get intimate it was a complete non-issue. These things don’t matter if you’re really feeling connected and there’s good chemistry. 
 

Also I dated a woman for awhile where things were going well but she was more a “maybe” with some potential. When we got intimate her body was a turn off and I ended it shortly after. I didn’t end it because of her body, but it was the push to end something that wasn’t going to go anywhere. 
 

So you have to decide if there’s enough chemistry with this guy, are there enough things you like about him, so you don’t even notice if he has some loose skin. Your admiration for his weight loss and dedication to the gym outweighs (no pun intended) what may not be the perfect beach body.

[lovesfool]

47 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

When he blew you off all those times, you should have just walked away.   It's pretty hard to have any support to offer you.  The guy was clearly not ready for this but you refused to take the blazing hints.   Now you're on the verge of dumping him because of his body.   Poor fellow.  

I'm sorry, how does him flaking on me reflect poorly on me? People here were saying that he wasn't interested, which I've established is not the case so I'm not sure how you can say that he's "clearly not ready for this"?

30 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

If there was real chemistry between the two of you, you wouldn’t be thinking like this. You’ve been out a few times and it’s gone well, but doesn’t seem like your feeling have progressed too much. I dated a woman once where the initial chemistry was off the charts. She had had a double mastectomy because of breast cancer, and it didn’t occur to me to worry about it. And when we did get intimate it was a complete non-issue. These things don’t matter if you’re really feeling connected and there’s good chemistry. 
 

Also I dated a woman for awhile where things were going well but she was more a “maybe” with some potential. When we got intimate her body was a turn off and I ended it shortly after. I didn’t end it because of her body, but it was the push to end something that wasn’t going to go anywhere. 
 

So you have to decide if there’s enough chemistry with this guy, are there enough things you like about him, so you don’t even notice if he has some loose skin. Your admiration for his weight loss and dedication to the gym outweighs (no pun intended) what may not be the perfect beach body.

I would have to disagree. There has to be some physical chemistry. It's very rare that someone is not at all attracted physically to their partner. And what you're suggesting is that if there is "real chemistry", no physical trait that could keep you apart. Very unlikely!

Maybe it is all in my head and that it won't be an issue if things get more intimate, but I couldn't help thinking about it when we were in that setting. It was probably a stupid thing for me to ask because I guess I will have to follow through for me to really know for sure how I feel.

[poppyfields]

 

1 hour ago, lovesfool said:

I always seem to find some problem when dating, or maybe I just attract issues.

My take on this^ is you overthink, become anxious and invite problems in real life dating situations because you yourself fear intimacy and commitment and focusing on their flaws and overthinking negative thoughts is your way of avoiding those things. 

Focusing on flaws after you were otherwise very attracted and interested before meeting and spending real time together in person, gives you an "out" without appearing like the "bad guy." 

If only they were perfect!!

No one is perfect @lovesfool, no one, including you. 

It's quite common among those with avoidant attachment and commitment fears/anxieties. 

I recall you're in your late 30s?

IF you truly desire a close committed relationship (and you may not which.is OK too), please read the book I suggested earlier.  

At this point in your life it's become a pattern and you'd be wise to explore it.

Anyway, the book a great alternative to therapy if you're averse to that. 

It helped me a lot and many others. 

I got married last July.

Edited January 2, 2023 by poppyfields

[Wiseman2]

On 12/3/2022 at 12:57 PM, lovesfool said:

. He could be nervous about meeting after just getting back into dating, 

Do you feel his stalling and flaking are related to the body issues? He seems to talk about that a lot.

[lovesfool]

19 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

 

My take on this^ is you overthink, become anxious and invite problems in real life dating situations because you yourself fear intimacy and commitment and focusing on their flaws and overthinking negative thoughts is your way of avoiding those things. 

Focusing on flaws after you were otherwise very attracted and interested before meeting and spending real time together in person, gives you an "out" without appearing like the "bad guy." 

If only they were perfect!!

No one is perfect @lovesfool, no one, including you. 

It's quite common among those with avoidant attachment and commitment fears/anxieties. 

I recall you're in your late 30s?

IF you truly desire a close committed relationship (and you may not which.is OK too), please read the book I suggested earlier.  

At this point in your life it's become a pattern and you'd be wise to explore it.

Anyway, the book a great alternative to therapy if you're averse to that. 

It helped me a lot and many others. 

I got married last July.

I do not feel consciously that I fear intimacy or commitment. I've been longing to find someone to have a stable relationship with, but for some reason I have these standards that I can't seem to find in the men I date. I don't even consider them high standards by any measure, but just character or physical traits that I find attractive.

I am always looking for the spark and not "settling" for someone that I don't think is right for me. Is that seeking someone who is perfect? Maybe so, but I can't help who I'm attracted to.

I am in my mid-thirties. I'll consider reading the book you've suggested, thank you.

6 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Do you feel his stalling and flaking are related to the body issues? He seems to talk about that a lot.

I don't think that's the case. Despite him saying he can get anxious, he comes across as confident in many ways. The comments about his body only came up twice, very briefly, across 4 dates where we might have spoken for 20+ hours so I wouldn't consider it having come up a lot.

I actually think he's quite proud of where he's gotten to as he regularly posts gym progress photos, so he's not ashamed of showing how far he has come which I admire him for.

[Weezy1973]

10 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

I am always looking for the spark and not "settling" for someone that I don't think is right for me. Is that seeking someone who is perfect? Maybe so, but I can't help who I'm attracted to.

You seem to have answered your own question. You are only attracted to men that are “perfect”. And since perfect doesn’t exist, you’re in your mid-30s never having been in a long term relationship, and don’t appear to be heading in that direction. Hopefully you don’t want kids / family, because in your mid-30s most family minded men won’t be interested in dating you as your fertility is going to be an issue.

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, lovesfool said:

I do not feel consciously that I fear intimacy or commitment. I've been longing to find someone to have a stable relationship with, but for some reason I have these standards that I can't seem to find in the men I date. I don't even consider them high standards

Bolded, Bingo!  In many cases, until one becomes self-aware, such fears and anxieties are NOT conscious, they're hidden.  One is not consciously aware of them. 

However, they're reflected in our choice of partner and also our behavior once faced with the possibility of a relationship.

Just as you're doing now. And done in the past.

One of my brothers is just like you.  He wants nothing more than a close intimate relationship but whenever faced with that possibility, he always finds something "wrong."  He becomes anxious and begins overthinking. 

Jumping way ahead and envisioning things that might happen, but have no basis in reality at the present time. 

He's aware of it now, in his 40s.  And taking steps to resolve, it hasn't been easy!

The book I recommended - He Said, She Said - the Hidden Fears that Sabotage Your Relationships."

Please at least Google it, read the reviews,  It's quite insightful and has helped many many people. 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

33 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

The book I recommended - He Said, She Said - the Hidden Fears that Sabotage Your Relationships."

Oops, got the name wrong

It's "He's Scared, She's Scared - Understanding the Hidden Fears that Sabotage Your Relationships."