Is he interested or not?

[glows]

I’m not sure why you deleted all your profiles over this thing. He wasn’t interested. The second time he didn’t come up with an alternative date or time would have been auto-ignore for me, wouldn’t even have bothered blocking him unless he kept pinging or messaging. Deep breaths here, don’t take this too personally that you’re undateable or everyone is a kook. 

You were kind and understanding this one time but it didn’t work. Try another approach.

[lovesfool]

Hi all. Sorry for not replying sooner. It's been a busy week!

Firstly, I didn't really delete my dating profiles because of him. It was more that it was on my mind for a while and then this was the straw that broke the camels back!

Just as an update, he messaged me on Monday to check in on me and to chat. Eventually he suggested meeting for our rescheduled date, which we did! We ended up going for some drinks which went on for about 5 hours! We just kept chatting and there were no silences at all. It was very nice. He said to me that I was very intimidating because of my good looks (!) and was very nervous about meeting which was a first for me. I didn't know whether to take that as a compliment or an insult! We've arranged to meet again this weekend.

However, I have landed myself into an awkward situation now. Last week after I thought I would never hear from him again, by chance another guy I was casually chatting to for a long time asked to meet. So I said why not. He was a really nice guy, but there were some possible red flags. After the date I said we should meet again (and I meant it), just to see if it could turn into something. Now I don't know what to do.

I've been putting off meeting him and I feel like I'm the one turning into a flake! The only reason I haven't met him again is because I see more potential with the other guy. I feel so bad. He also has a lot of family issues and he actually told me he's lonely and that I'm the first girl he's been interested in since his breakup early this year. I don't want to lead him on, even though it could turn into something if I gave it a chance.

I don't think I'd be comfortable with dating two people at the same time (which I know some people do regularly). Do I just roll the dice and choose one guy and write the other one off entirely? This is a very strange scenario for me as I've never been interested in two guys at the same time!

[Wiseman2]

48 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

 I've never been interested in two guys at the same time!

And this is exactly what dating is for. To find a good fit. There is no reason to choose anything at this point because your information about and understanding of them is too limited at this point.

Go with the flow until you feel that someone is a good fit and there's mutual interest and attraction.

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, lovesfool said:

Do I just roll the dice and choose one guy and write the other one off entirely?

I wouldn't, no. You don't know enough about either one of them yet to guess who (if either) is a good match for you. 

I see no harm in contuing to meet both of them. You don't owe either one exclusivity at this point. See how things unfold with them both, and then decide. 

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, lovesfool said:

I don't think I'd be comfortable with dating two people at the same time (which I know some people do regularly). Do I just roll the dice and choose one guy and write the other one off entirely? This is a very strange scenario for me as I've never been interested in two guys at the same time!

Whoa. No need to be a speed demon.

An aversion to dating two men at the same time makes sense.

But... These men are strangers.

It's about knowing what you want and whether you're a good match for each other.

A few dates with a guy do not constitute a relationship. No need to commit yourself to someone until you know enough about him. Focusing in before knowing enough about someone could lead to being hooked on someone that is not right for you or you them.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Alpacalia

[shellzbellz83]

Absolutely do NOT stop meeting other people just because you had one date with the first guy. It was one date. 

[glows]

I wouldn’t keep seeing red flag-lonely-family issues man if he turns you off that much. I’m curious about what he told you. Sounds like a lot of unnecessary drama.

Cut your losses early and see what other matches there are and feel open to dating others. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by glows

[lovesfool]

51 minutes ago, glows said:

I wouldn’t keep seeing red flag-lonely-family issues man if he turns you off that much. I’m curious about what he told you. Sounds like a lot of unnecessary drama.

Cut your losses early and see what other matches there are and feel open to dating others. 

He seems quite caring, especially with his family, but he told me a few stories where he was involved in a bit of drama. For example, he told me about arguments he had with a mechanic because he didn't keep his word. It seemed a bit immature, but maybe I just don't stand up for myself like he does and that's why it seems odd to me.

Maybe I'll give him a chance. He seems disappointed that I haven't arranged another date yet.

[Lotsgoingon]

You're acting like you're engaged. Go out with both people. If there is a third guy who comes along or a fourth go meet them as well. This is totally honorably and acceptable practice. 

And you go out with each person as many times as you want.  If at some point there is one person you are committing to, then you stop meeting others. This usually takes place without a lot of thinking. Maybe the best tip here is to replace the word "date" with the word "meet." You are merely meeting people.  That's all a first or second date is--a meeting. These early dates are merely meetings even if you kiss and make out.

And look, a five-hour, no-silence date actually doesn't mean much at all for the future. I've gone on super-long dates just because it was fun to spend time with the person. Didn't mean she or I wanted to get deep with each other. I've been on super-long dates that didn't go anywhere. Gone on much shorter dates that were spectacularly good and exciting. 

Sounds like you're revving up all your fantasies and hopes based on one meeting.  No, you keep going and meeting people. Dating is basically like applying for jobs. You apply for a 100 at a time if you can! You don't have one little feeler and stop looking for other jobs. No. 

You don't know someone well enough after one meeting or two ... sometimes after three and four ... to know that they are worthy of focusing on. And even if they are worthy, you don't know if they are interested or if you are REALLY interested. 

Do anything other than this and you are undermining your esteem, you're putting your value into the reaction of any one person. Very destructive. Not respectful to yourself at all. 

 

[lovesfool]

Maybe I'm just old fashioned. I only ever dated one man at a time. I know if I found out that someone I was seeing was also dating (or meeting!) someone else I'd be pretty upset. I know it's a common thing in dating now, and I accept it, but still feels a bit wrong.

I was dating someone recently for a short while and saw him in a bar with another woman and it just ruined it for me. Ignorance is bliss.

[poppyfields]

5 hours ago, lovesfool said:

He said to me that I was very intimidating because of my good looks (!) and was very nervous about meeting.

My advice is stay away from men who tell you this after distancing themselves and returning after a period of no contact. 

While I'm sure you're lovely, either it's a BS excuse to get back into your good graces after disappearing OR he's so insecure that any type of dating experience with him is going to be a huge PITA, filled with uncertainty and drama.

If me, I'd dump both and seek someone better, a man more secure who has his s*** together. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by poppyfields

[lovesfool]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

My advice is stay away from men who tell you this after distancing themselves and returning after a period of no contact. 

While I'm sure you're lovely, either it's a BS excuse to get back into your good graces after disappearing OR he's so insecure that any type of dating experience with him is going to be a huge PITA, filled with uncertainty and drama.

If me, I'd dump both and seek someone better, a man more secure who has his s*** together. 

May be a misunderstanding. He didn't go no contact, unless a day or two counts!

Also that comment wasn't really related to why he missed the first date. He just said it at a random point and thought he was being sincere. He didn't come across as insecure, but he did mention he was very overweight in the past so maybe he's held onto some of that worry.

I'm always confused by the advice here. It usually ends up as if I want to keep dating, I'm told to dump them and if I don't want to keep dating I'm told to stay with them! I don't know if I'm always making bad decisions or the advice here tends to be contrary to the OP's choices!

[poppyfields]

18 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

He didn't come across as insecure, but he did mention he was very overweight in the past so maybe he's held onto some of that worry.

Him being overweight in the past and hanging on to that and feeling intimidated by certain women (you) and flaking because of it IS an insecurity. 

The way you posted it made it sound like he used his insecurity to explain why he flaked and/or why he was nervous to meet you. 

Just my take, the written word is often ambiguous and can be interpreted in different ways. 

But hey if you're cool with it and want to meet/date him, that is totally your call. 

I was simply stating my opinion and what I would do given his previous flakey behavior and announcing he felt intimidated by me. 

In my experience, nothing good or positive ever resulted from dating a man like this, but you gotta do you and if you're okay with it, then I hope it works out for you. 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by poppyfields

[NuevoYorko]

You're a bit off base with how you're approaching online dating.

I understand only dating one person at a time.  I'm the same.  These encounters are "meetings" and you're not dating.   They are strangers who you've met one or a couple of times. 

Your insistence that it would be meaningful to know why a STRANGER was not very interested in you plays into a false paradigm.  Men you meet are STRANGERS and they will remain STRANGERS until you spend some real time getting to know them.  You really have no idea whether they are even representing themselves honestly.  Them explaining to you "why" they didn't bother following up or didn't pursue more enthusiastically are likely to just be excuses or other hot air.  You certainly have no clue about what they're up to where you are concerned, and you never will unless / until you both put in more time.  Even if you have sex with them after one or two meetings,  they are still a stranger until you spend the time.  During this phase, either person can just decide "no" and say bye; hopefully not just ghost, but a reason  / explanation is not required.

The "we are exclusive" decision needs to happen when you actually know a person.   For me, if I were hoping and ready to start getting intimate with a woman, that was the time that I'd make the commitment to exclusivity and want the same in return.  Of course sometimes there happens to be only one person you're interested in spending time with; in that case,  no need to force seeing others.  Still, it doesn't mean that this one guy is going to be your boyfriend ... ever.  You'll need to keep in mind that you are getting to know them and that all bets are off until you know quite a bit.  Same goes for the guys:  At any time during the "getting to know" phase, they can just bow out without any kind of a solid reason.  Maybe they're just not feeling it.  Ouch, but ... bye.

From what you've shared, I'd be surprised if either one of these men are going to end up your partner in a healthy longterm relationship.  The first guy, sorry, but he's full of bologna.   He didn't put you off multiple times (I lost track) and "forget"  because you are "too good looking."  That is not a thing.   He put you off because his interest level wasn't super high.  Texting between strangers is  about as easy as looking at your phone.  It means little to nothing.  And he gave you an excuse for his flaking that was flattering to you.    Who knows - maybe your amazing looks played into it, but it still adds up to the same thing.   Meeting you was not a big priority.

That in itself  would not need to be a deal breaker.  There is way too much emphasis and expectations here on men supposedly needing to come on super strong with women they don't know.  It's not necessary.  Why should it be top priority?  THEY DON'T KNOW YOU.  Once two people meet, the chemistry can get going and it turns into something real.  In his case, though, it's a problem that he gave you the lame excuse about your looks.  Also he kept "forgetting" but still  wasting your time with texting during the pre-meeting stage.     Those are my reasons for thinking that this is not going to get anywhere.

And the second guy - if you see "potential red flags"  when you meet someone, the message is clear.  RED FLAGS mean:  STOP - DO NOT GO FURTHER.  They are different than "possible incompatibilities" or "potential stumbling blocks."  We use the term RED FLAG for reasons.  

Anyway, the weekend is half over.  How did your date with the first guy go?

 

[Lotsgoingon]

There are some great stories about effective online dating. One that I've heard goes basically like this. This was a woman who eventually found a partner and got married to this person.

She would on a Saturday schedule back-to-back cafe meetings with like 5 people. One from at 12. One at 1. One at 2 ... and on and on. The point, just meet people to see who was worth a second date. Incredibly smart. And that's what employers do when they are interviewing potential employees. You could waste tons of time (to no good effect) by spreading out those meetings over weeks, months. Waste of time.

Before online dating, you met people at a party, at work, through friends, and you talked to them and observed them in a natural setting.  Based on observing them and talking to them (and maybe hearing about what others think of them) you would decide, "hey, I really like Mary."

Then you might have asked your friends/her friends--people who knew the person--if the person was dating anyone. And this is crucial part relevant to the question here.  When you asked (or even today if you ask) if someone was dating you weren't asking if they had recently gone on a date with someone. You were asking if they were seriously dating someone. You were asking,  "are they partnered seriously right now?" The person you're interested in might have have gone on ten recent dates with people and not felt anything about any of those folks! Today, I think the same thinking applies. In fact, all going on a lot of dates means is you are looking. That's the people think about it. Going on dates means you are looking for a partner. Continuing to go on dates means you haven't found a partner. 

So part of the confusion about "dating" is that we use the word in two ways. One meaning refers to seriously dating and partnered, exclusively so. The other meaning of "dating" is any kind of meetup. Once you are seriously partnered, no you don't want to go out on any more "dates" with new people. But until you are partnered, you want to keep meeting people on dates.

Not all that different from going to parties. When you're meeting people and forming friendships, you go to as many parties as you want and meet as many people from different circles as you want. At some point, you'll find your particular party group, your people, and then you start to just hang with that particular group. 

 

 

  

 

 

[Alpacalia]

6 hours ago, lovesfool said:

Maybe I'm just old fashioned. I only ever dated one man at a time. I know if I found out that someone I was seeing was also dating (or meeting!) someone else I'd be pretty upset. I know it's a common thing in dating now, and I accept it, but still feels a bit wrong.

I was dating someone recently for a short while and saw him in a bar with another woman and it just ruined it for me. Ignorance is bliss.

I am the same way.

I don't need to date two men at once.

If it doesn't fit your personal style then don't do it.

There isn't anything wrong with dating more than one man at a time. The first few dates should be thought of as interviews, not dates. You're deciding who to take on in a partnership position, and you better be selective.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Alpacalia

[glows]

10 hours ago, lovesfool said:

He seems quite caring, especially with his family, but he told me a few stories where he was involved in a bit of drama. For example, he told me about arguments he had with a mechanic because he didn't keep his word. It seemed a bit immature, but maybe I just don't stand up for myself like he does and that's why it seems odd to me.

Maybe I'll give him a chance. He seems disappointed that I haven't arranged another date yet.

Choose a different mechanic? Most would find a different shop if things aren’t up to par. This guy doesn’t sound like much of a catch. 

I date one at a time and have no issues with it. I think some have a real fear of becoming attached. You won’t if you understand your own needs and know what you want. You do what feels best to you. 

On the other hand it wouldn’t cross my mind feeling guilty about meeting someone else by accident either. I just don’t prefer going out with multiple people at the same time - can’t think of anything more supremely uninteresting and takes too much time I’d rather be spending elsewhere.

[poppyfields]

I was a one-at-a-time dater too once I met the man I wanted to focus on one-at-a-time with. A man with whom there was a mutual attraction and "click." 

Nothing wrong with spinning several men until you meet "that" man.

IMO from what you've posted OP, neither of these men are that man.

But keep spinning them if you want.   As long as you remain realistic about it, keep expectations in check and you're simply having fun. 

I never could, one two dates was my dating limit until I found that man to go one-at-a-time with. 

May last a week, a month, a year or forever, point is when you meet that man focus on him, play it out, see where it goes. 

These two men aren't that man imo for obvious reasons that don't need repeating. 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by poppyfields

[salparadise]

@lovesfool  I'm a man who has been doing online dating for 12 years, on and off. What the others are saying –– that you have every right to multi-date –– is true of course. You can certainly keep several "spinning" at once if you're intent on optimizing the process and selecting a man in much the same way an employer would hire a secretary or whatever. But I am like you in that it just feels too weird, incongruent, complicated, disingenuous. There have been times when I had several potentials going at once, but I never had any problem deciding if I was really interested (or which one) after the meeting. So for me, the term "spinning" is only applicable before meeting, and until after a first date. If I had someone I was interested enough in to go out with 2-3-4 times, the others would either be put on hold or just not pursued (since the man has to initiate  or nothing happens). So that's just to give you some perspective and reassurance that you aren't necessarily doing it wrong, given that the responses have all been of a certain attitude with respect to how you SHOULD be going about this.

And from the other side of the coin, as a man trying to find a good woman to date, if I get the sense that a woman is "spinning" a bunch of men... I am not going to play the pick-me, pick-me game. If a first date or meeting feels like I'm being interrogated and every word I say is being judged in an effort to eliminate me as a candidate, or if she's asking a series of qualifying questions with that certain tone, then there will be no follow up or second date. I just have no patience for that kind of crap. First comes rapport, and if we click in that way then the relevant information will be shared in due time. 

I've had two significant relationships and several shorter ones since being divorced, and in every single instance things progressed based on the two of us focusing exclusively on each other once the attraction and interest was established, which was usually the first meeting in-person. In each case we carried on an exclusive relationship from day one without it ever having been declared as such. We focused on each other and there was no time, energy or inclination to "spin" a bunch of others for either of us. It was happening FOR US and we both knew it. With one girlfriend the subject came up after a year of dating  (based on the usual advice that if it hasn't been declared then it's not exclusive) and we both had a good laugh, knowing that we had been on the same page the entire time.

So yea, don't think you have to march to anyone else's tune. You do you. And thanks to Poppy for giving this mentality a fitting name.

[lovesfool]

I understand that there's nothing wrong with meeting multiple people, but I just feel off about doing it. You end up weighing up one against the other, even if both might seem like suitable "candidates". I remember a friend of mine was dating two guys who she really liked and she found it hard to decide which one to continue pursuing. She made a decision, and it ultimately worked out, but what if it didn't? The other person was just as eligible and now there's likely no future chance with them.

Plus I wouldn't like to be the person on the other end if they ever found out I was seeing two people. Even if it acceptable generally and that you're obviously not in anything committed, it still hurts when you find out you're only an option. Emotion has a greater hold over logic.

The second guy (lets say he's the less eligible one called Guy B), was messaging me yesterday wanting to meet. I didn't want to meet him when I had another date lined up with Guy A today. I feel bad because he had an evening planned out. He seems like an old romantic and doesn't seem to be out just for sex.

I got a message from Guy A this morning saying that he's feeling under the weather. He hasn't exactly cancelled, but it seems like he's laying the ground work to do just that! I'm thinking I might have been too eager suggesting to meet him again. After our first date on Thursday he suggested meeting again on Friday (the following week). I countered with Sunday and he asked "as long as you don't think it's too soon after our first date?". Maybe I need to give him a bit of breathing space, although he is a heavy texter! Constant back and forth with messages which I'm not used to, but it's nice. He also messages me most mornings wishing me a good day!

I guess I'll wait and see what happens. If Guy A flakes again, maybe I should meet Guy B instead and see if there's more potential there.

[glows]

Neither of them may be what you wish for. You’re investing way too much into either of them. Less texting and more in person dates. Try not to get caught up with words.

[NuevoYorko]

6 hours ago, lovesfool said:

 You end up weighing up one against the other, even if both might seem like suitable "candidates".

But ... that's exactly what you're doing now, except in your case, you don't know either one of them at all.  They are both strangers.

6 hours ago, lovesfool said:

I remember a friend of mine was dating two guys who she really liked and she found it hard to decide which one to continue pursuing. She made a decision, and it ultimately worked out, but what if it didn't? The other person was just as eligible and now there's likely no future chance with them.

???  What she did worked great.   She made the right decision.  In your case you are considering choosing between 2 guys you don't even know.   IMO neither one of them is remotely "eligible" but regardless, they are both strangers.  The one you don't pick, you have no future chance with - just like your friend.  In her case, though, she actually got to know both people before deciding.  

6 hours ago, lovesfool said:

 

I got a message from Guy A this morning saying that he's feeling under the weather. He hasn't exactly cancelled, but it seems like he's laying the ground work to do just that! I'm thinking I might have been too eager suggesting to meet him again. After our first date on Thursday he suggested meeting again on Friday (the following week). I countered with Sunday and he asked "as long as you don't think it's too soon after our first date?". Maybe I need to give him a bit of breathing space, although he is a heavy texter! Constant back and forth with messages which I'm not used to, but it's nice. He also messages me most mornings wishing me a good day!

I guess I'll wait and see what happens. If Guy A flakes again, maybe I should meet Guy B instead and see if there's more potential there.

Why are you wasting your time with Guy A.  It seems clear that you are intent on setting yourself up for failure, because this guy is not very interested in you and he is so clearly wasting your time with all the texting.   But you're eating it up with a spoon ... like it really means anything.  It doesn't.  

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

Why are you wasting your time with Guy A.  It seems clear that you are intent on setting yourself up for failure, because this guy is not very interested in you. 

I echo this^ so much and would love it @lovesfool if you would answer the question. 

I see this so much in today's dating culture, women continuing to go after and/or wait around for guys who are clearly NOT interested in them. 

And demonstrating their lack of interest in various ways -- flaky elusive behavior.

Texting is NOT dating. It never was and never will be.  Its not even a reflection of interest! 

It's a way to pass the time, to alleviate boredom, to get an ego boost, anyone will do as long as they're texting back, that's all that's required. 

 

[lovesfool]

I'm "wasting" so much time on Guy A because almost all guys I come across are like this in the dating world. If I ruled out every man that behaved like this, I'd never go on a date. I'm just a number. I'm sure they have plenty of other matches on Tinder who they are messaging and making dates with. That's modern dating I guess.

On one hand you're saying that these guys are strangers and I shouldn't be worried about meeting both at the same time, but on the other you're saying that I should be a priority in their lives. It seems like a contradiction.

[Alpacalia]

Guy A is someone you have exchanged a few messages with for what, a month now?

In that time he's flaked on you twice and you've had one date.

Plus, he's not just flaky, he is weird.

Are you sure you want to go out with this guy? At this point he has flaked more times than he's kept plans.

His anxious personality will cause you to become anxious. No one should make you so involved in how they’re thinking and feeling that you take on their stress and negative energy. It's wrong and you don't need it.