Making a guy like you

[hotpotato]

Please tell me if this is standard procedure. 

I was having a debate about men who are very sexual from the get go. This woman told me that she doesn't have that problem.because she would communicate with him and tell him she wants to date. 

I dont date, but I don't believe in that. If a man wants to spend time with a woman, he will let it be known. None of that, "Oh, but he might be shy", stuff applies here. If he had the cajones to ask for sex presumably very quickly, he would also ask a woman out if he wanted to. 

 

[glows]

There’s nothing wrong with what she’s doing. All that matters is people conduct themselves consistently in ways that suit them without hurting others or being rude. She may be more forward than most women and seek people who are compatible with her for her dating purposes. People date with different dynamics in relationships.

 

[Alpacalia]

Oh, I don't know.

I think in most cases you'd probably be correct.

In the case of the other cases, you seem to be looking at it from the premise that all men are not afraid of rejection, so to speak.

In cases where men are forwardly seeking sex, you are probably right.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Alpacalia

[flitzanu]

i'm not sure i follow.

the last sentence, about guys being too shy to ask you out but also saying they'd ask for sex quickly?  

no guy is going to be asking for sex quickly, and then claiming to be too shy to ask a girl on a date.  

this might need a bit more clarification.

[Alpacalia]

My understanding may be incorrect. Last sentence seems to be a statement about the man making sexual overtures to the woman, but not asking her out on a date and indicating no desire to spend time with her.

In that case OP be correct.

Being "shy" isn't the problem.

 

[hotpotato]

4 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

My understanding may be incorrect. Last sentence seems to be a statement about the man making sexual overtures to the woman, but not asking her out on a date and indicating no desire to spend time with her.

In that case OP be correct.

Being "shy" isn't the problem.

 

This is what I meant. The hypothetical guy has already made a pass that is purely sexual. At that point I don't consider a guys to shy to ask a woman out on a proper date. Imo and in my experience he doesn't want go in dates. The only way a man would change my mind is to spend time with me and take me out. I don't believe in chasing a man who at that point seems uninterested in dating me. 

[Alpacalia]

1 minute ago, hotpotato said:

This is what I meant. The hypothetical guy has already made a pass that is purely sexual. At that point I don't consider a guys to shy to ask a woman out on a proper date. Imo and in my experience he doesn't want go in dates. The only way a man would change my mind is to spend time with me and take me out. I don't believe in chasing a man who at that point seems uninterested in dating me. 

Thanks.

Wait. I'm a bit confused on the last part that I bolded. 

"I don't date," you said in your opening post.

I know you have said this is a hypothetical scenario, so in a way what you just said cancels everything out, hypothetically speaking. 

 

 

 

[hotpotato]

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

Thanks.

Wait. I'm a bit confused on the last part that I bolded. 

"I don't date," you said in your opening post.

I know you have said this is a hypothetical scenario, so in a way what you just said cancels everything out, hypothetically 

How do you mean? Everything is still hypothetical.

Edited October 4, 2022 by hotpotato

[basil67]

Your friend's approach clearly works for her - otherwise she wouldn't continue doing it.   The fact that you may not like or believe in that strategy doesn't make it any less successful for her.

[Alpacalia]

42 minutes ago, hotpotato said:

How do you mean? Everything is still hypothetical.

I think we're getting off track.

Asking men out works for your friend.

So it's unclear how this relates to your friend.

Have you told men you "don't date?". Not sure if you have but they will likely either move on to someone else or may interpret your statement as an indication that you are up for some casual fun IF you have.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Alpacalia

[Wiseman2]

20 hours ago, hotpotato said:

 This woman told me that she doesn't have that problem.because she would communicate with him and tell him she wants to date. 

Is this a friend or co-worker? If asking guys out works for her  or she wants to let them know she's not down for hooking up, well ok then.To each their own. 

[hotpotato]

16 hours ago, basil67 said:

Your friend's approach clearly works for her - otherwise she wouldn't continue doing it.   The fact that you may not like or believe in that strategy doesn't make it any less successful for her.

I'm not really sure as I don't know this person in real life. I surely wouldn't do it. 

[hotpotato]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Is this a friend or co-worker? If asking guys out works for her  or she wants to let them know she's not down for hooking up, well ok then.To each their own. 

More like online debate lol. I guess to each his own then. I wouldn't try to convince a man who sees me as a booty call to date. That's inviting a lot of problems imo. In my experience if a guy wants to get to know a woman, he won't need to be reminded or prodded into doing so. 

She said she would ask a man out, and that it didn't make a difference in the end. I wouldn't ask a man out, or is it ask a man to ask me out???

[hotpotato]

16 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

I think we're getting off track.

Asking men out works for your friend.

So it's unclear how this relates to your friend.

Have you told men you "don't date?". Not sure if you have but they will likely either move on to someone else or may interpret your statement as an indication that you are up for some casual fun IF you have.

I dont deal with men much anymore. I usually tell them I have a boyfriend. 

[basil67]

7 hours ago, hotpotato said:

 I wouldn't try to convince a man who sees me as a booty call to date.

She's not trying to convince him of anything - she's just letting him the conditions under which she will meet with him.  

[poppyfields]

7 hours ago, hotpotato said:

I wouldn't try to convince a man who sees me as a booty call to date.

I'm with you on that @hotpotato.  And I experienced this a lot when I did OLDing, not so much with men I met in real life.

With on line, I had men skipping the part where they ask me on a date and go straight to "let's meet and have sex"!

Those messages went straight to trash.

I had NO desire to explain to them that NO, I am not interesting in meeting for sex, I am interested in dating.

I suppose there is nothing bad or wrong about what your friend is doing - explaining to these men that she's interested in dating.

Frankly I got turned off when I received one of those "let's meet for sex" messages, I found them (and the men who sent them) repugnant, and they went straight to trash.

No thank you.

Edited October 5, 2022 by poppyfields

[hotpotato]

17 hours ago, basil67 said:

She's not trying to convince him of anything - she's just letting him the conditions under which she will meet with him.  

That in and of itself as an issue in my opinion. Like I already said, if he wanted to spend nonsexual time with her, he would. He has the cajones to ask for nsa sex, so he can't claim to be shy. Many guys will give you a few breadcrumbs to get sex. They'll keep you around for sex and then go all put to date someone else. 

[basil67]

5 hours ago, hotpotato said:

That in and of itself as an issue in my opinion. Like I already said, if he wanted to spend nonsexual time with her, he would. He has the cajones to ask for nsa sex, so he can't claim to be shy. Many guys will give you a few breadcrumbs to get sex. They'll keep you around for sex and then go all put to date someone else. 

How did "shyness" become part of the equation for this debate?  Of course he's not shy. 

I really don't understand what you are so bothered that she tells guys what her expectations are.  They'll either be keen enough to date or or move on.   If was a close friend who was constantly complaining about the results of her approach, I can see your frustration. But by all accounts this was written by a random person on the internet, and she's happy with her approach.  It is OK for people to have different approaches to dating.  

Edited October 6, 2022 by basil67

[hotpotato]

On 10/6/2022 at 3:29 PM, basil67 said:

How did "shyness" become part of the equation for this debate?  Of course he's not shy. 

I really don't understand what you are so bothered that she tells guys what her expectations are.  They'll either be keen enough to date or or move on.   If was a close friend who was constantly complaining about the results of her approach, I can see your frustration. But by all accounts this was written by a random person on the internet, and she's happy with her approach.  It is OK for people to have different approaches to dating.  

I was wondering if this was the norm. 

 

She said some guys are too shy to ask someone out. If they're asking for sex, no one can claim that the guy is shy. 

A lot of guys won't be kern to date but will still give you a little attention in hopes of getting sex. 

 

[basil67]

Yes, there are some guys who are too shy or nervous to ask a woman out, but you're right that the guys who hit on a woman straight up are not lacking in confidence.  

But there really is no norm - people do what works for them.   Or they might do one thing this time and a different approach next time.  And no matter how we approach it, dating is always a risk.  One could argue that a player may go for a woman who's wanting lots of dates because of the conquest.  It's probably not a common outcome, but I'm sure it still happens. 

With the approach of this particular woman, given that she's stating her expectations upfront it sounds to me like that she wants more than "a little attention". I haven't seen her posts obviously, but I imaging she's wanting to establish an emotional connection and going on dates.  And frankly, I would imagine that a guy who only wants a hookup isn't going to spend time and money taking her on dates and having to talk with her.  He'll most likely just move on to the next woman. 

 

 

[hotpotato]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

Yes, there are some guys who are too shy or nervous to ask a woman out, but you're right that the guys who hit on a woman straight up are not lacking in confidence.  

But there really is no norm - people do what works for them.   Or they might do one thing this time and a different approach next time.  And no matter how we approach it, dating is always a risk.  One could argue that a player may go for a woman who's wanting lots of dates because of the conquest.  It's probably not a common outcome, but I'm sure it still happens. 

With the approach of this particular woman, given that she's stating her expectations upfront it sounds to me like that she wants more than "a little attention". I haven't seen her posts obviously, but I imaging she's wanting to establish an emotional connection and going on dates.  And frankly, I would imagine that a guy who only wants a hookup isn't going to spend time and money taking her on dates and having to talk with her.  He'll most likely just move on to the next woman. 

 

 

That depends on how he's feeling. I had a guy who wasn't that into me but he would take me out on dates every jow and then. I would get some breadcrumbs, but he never would commit. This was a long time ago, and I admit I was chasing. 

I would give a man one opportunity to actually fate me, and I wouldn't let him believe of he gave me a littlw attention or took me a few dates that he might get sex. 

[basil67]

16 minutes ago, hotpotato said:

I wouldn't let him believe of he gave me a littlw attention

That's the third time you've invoked the phrases "a little attention" or "breadcrumbs".  What exactly did she say would be acceptable in terms of dating before she'd be comfortable taking the relationship further?  

[mark clemson]

Just on the general topic of men who proposition right off the bat, I think there are some men who were shy or otherwise lacking in social skills WRT women while growing up who have learned to do this (asking for sex) instead of starting normal bonding with women. There are also PUA types who push this as a "strategy" if I'm not mistaken.

I think these guys have figured out that once in a great while it "works" (i.e., gets them sex) and they don't have to "risk" attempting to use their weak social skills. They are skipping that step and getting right to the rejection (or very occasional acceptance). I'm going to guess they aren't overly concerned with the feelings of women who are put off by this. Some may have incel-ish or misogynistic attitudes towards women anyhow, or simply not be the type of person who worries overmuch about others' feelings.

I think men who with normal social skills typically don't do this because they know it's unlikely to result in a normal and emotionally healthy relationship AND even if they just want sex, they have better odds of success with that by treating the woman they're interested in normally (ala "players"). From what I understand even the PUA guru types who suggest this "just ask" stuff admit it's a low probability, don't worry about "burning your turf" type of strategy.

There may be some men who do this (ask for sex quickly) knowing it will probably derails things because they have issues with intimacy and/or misogynistic attitudes and realize at some level they aren't fit for a healthy relationship. So they are (consciously or unconsciously) self-sabotaging. AND once in a great while it does work to get them sex. I suspect that is probably out there as well. These men aren't necessarily shy, but they DO have "emotional issues" WRT women.

There are women who, when they see a guy they find attractive, will go to sex quickly. However, that requires at a minimum being a reasonably desirable man (and part of that typically means having reasonably good social skills and not being overtly emotionally unhealthy). I think those who follow PUA advice typically aren't particularly desirable and/or emotionally healthy (or weren't while growing up), which is how they got to that point.

Edited October 8, 2022 by mark clemson

[hotpotato]

17 hours ago, basil67 said:

That's the third time you've invoked the phrases "a little attention" or "breadcrumbs".  What exactly did she say would be acceptable in terms of dating before she'd be comfortable taking the relationship further?  

She didn't elaborate. 

[basil67]

So best not to base your argument on an assumption