Here Today, Gone Tomorrow

[SoulOfOne]

First post. A bit of history. We are both 30 plus. I've know P for a LONG time. Always friendly, caring. Both in other long term relationships until about a year ago. He admitted to me that he had been pining after me for a long time. I didn't know but I liked him and since things were open now I thought I would give it a go. I do really enjoy his company, humor and way with words. He is very expressive and deep which was new for me. There were a few times he has said some things that made my instincts perk up.  There have been very few intimate times, but it seemed as if nerves or something else had kept things from progressing. The 1st time he said it was nerves. I am accepting and understanding of it all. I didn't act put off at all. I wasn't, because I really do like and care for him and it is so much more than that.  A couple other times he said things like "well I didn't do it very much with old GF probably 1/10th of what normal people would have.  Only once every few months." I was open to listening and he didn't go further than that but said "it's not like I have ED or anything" and laughed. Then it happened again. Mentioning his medication was off. ??  I asked what meds. He said Anxiety-low dose.  I said, I understand what that does to a body. It's really ok. (I wasn't lying).  That being put aside, he is very physical and lovey when we get the chance to be in the right space. His words of affirmation are beautiful.  So it's not a problem with me if that type of sex is an issue.  What I HAVE noticed, is that there is a pattern to a distinct part of his behavior. about every 3 weeks or so, sometimes once a month, he will go very suddenly quiet. Not returning texts, telling me that we will make plans but doesn't. Last week he went off the radar for 2 days completely which is really not normal for our communication which is mostly via text. When he does this, I will leave him for a bit, then a gentle "are you ok" text to which sometimes he will answer that he is working on him, feeling quiet, alone or sometimes he says "What do you mean?" like nothing is wrong and will return all smiley and lovey, then there will be some excuse as to how busy he was with work or whatever.  There isn't a different relationship I am worried about, he has been sober after issues for 10 years and isn't doing that. I do believe he loves me. Or maybe he loves the "idea" of me? 

 I am wondering-is this some sort of depression or mental illness? I remind him that I am there and I love and care for him, and we have known each other a long time but not romantically so. I am only trying to figure out what he needs from me in a relationship sense. He told me, "I am not used to people caring about me." he tells me to keep reaching for him. To keep checking in. It's hard to do when he doesn't follow through with plans, or just disappears. Not used to people caring?  Did he do the same thing to his longtime GF and she just got tired of chasing him checking on him and just let him go?  That is a possibility.

 In turn, I have told him (a few times now) that I would appreciate him telling me if he feels like he wants to be left alone because I just don't know. I don't want to feel like I am chasing him or bothering him and when he goes silent, there is no warning.  It goes from lovey to disappearing in the snap of fingers. I don't mind reaching out to him in quiet times, but I'm beginning to notice that it is weighing on me. Maybe I am not what he needs, wants? Which makes it hard to reach out.  Is this the way of someone who might have depression that he has not told me about?  Do I ASK? Maybe it's MY boundaries that are in question? I certainly don't want to chase him. I care about him but I have my dignity too. But I also don't want to be insensitive to any mental illness that he doesn't feel comfortable telling me about.    I could really use some thoughts. 

[introverted1]

Is he in therapy? 

If so, I'd de-escalate to friendship while he works out his issues.

If not, unless you want to try to save him (an impossible task, imo), the same advice applies:  de-escalate. 

He has unresolved issues and, no matter how much you may think your love or concern will "cure" him, it won't.  Unless you relish the thought of being in a relationship where sex is difficult and your partner frequently checks out emotionally, you'd be better off stepping back until he is whole and truly ready for a relationship.

 

[stillafool]

44 minutes ago, SoulOfOne said:

Maybe I am not what he needs, wants?

It doesn't sound like he's what you need.  I think it makes you feel unwanted to have to always be the one to reach out to him instead of the other way around.  I suggest you stop that and get involved with something or someone else to fill your time until he gets in touch with you.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, SoulOfOne said:

There have been very few intimate times, but it seemed as if nerves or something else had kept things from progressing.  I asked what meds. He said Anxiety-low dose. 

Sorry this is happening. How long have you been dating? Try not to rescue him or play therapist or mother or coddle him. He pushes you away physically, emotionally and sexually. It's important to focus on what You need and want in a relationship, not what all his physiological and psychological problems are about.

[glows]

2 hours ago, SoulOfOne said:

First post. A bit of history. We are both 30 plus. I've know P for a LONG time. Always friendly, caring. Both in other long term relationships until about a year ago. He admitted to me that he had been pining after me for a long time. I didn't know but I liked him and since things were open now I thought I would give it a go. I do really enjoy his company, humor and way with words. He is very expressive and deep which was new for me. There were a few times he has said some things that made my instincts perk up.  There have been very few intimate times, but it seemed as if nerves or something else had kept things from progressing. The 1st time he said it was nerves. I am accepting and understanding of it all. I didn't act put off at all. I wasn't, because I really do like and care for him and it is so much more than that.  A couple other times he said things like "well I didn't do it very much with old GF probably 1/10th of what normal people would have.  Only once every few months." I was open to listening and he didn't go further than that but said "it's not like I have ED or anything" and laughed. Then it happened again. Mentioning his medication was off. ??  I asked what meds. He said Anxiety-low dose.  I said, I understand what that does to a body. It's really ok. (I wasn't lying).  That being put aside, he is very physical and lovey when we get the chance to be in the right space. His words of affirmation are beautiful.  So it's not a problem with me if that type of sex is an issue.  What I HAVE noticed, is that there is a pattern to a distinct part of his behavior. about every 3 weeks or so, sometimes once a month, he will go very suddenly quiet. Not returning texts, telling me that we will make plans but doesn't. Last week he went off the radar for 2 days completely which is really not normal for our communication which is mostly via text. When he does this, I will leave him for a bit, then a gentle "are you ok" text to which sometimes he will answer that he is working on him, feeling quiet, alone or sometimes he says "What do you mean?" like nothing is wrong and will return all smiley and lovey, then there will be some excuse as to how busy he was with work or whatever.  There isn't a different relationship I am worried about, he has been sober after issues for 10 years and isn't doing that. I do believe he loves me. Or maybe he loves the "idea" of me? 

 I am wondering-is this some sort of depression or mental illness? I remind him that I am there and I love and care for him, and we have known each other a long time but not romantically so. I am only trying to figure out what he needs from me in a relationship sense. He told me, "I am not used to people caring about me." he tells me to keep reaching for him. To keep checking in. It's hard to do when he doesn't follow through with plans, or just disappears. Not used to people caring?  Did he do the same thing to his longtime GF and she just got tired of chasing him checking on him and just let him go?  That is a possibility.

 In turn, I have told him (a few times now) that I would appreciate him telling me if he feels like he wants to be left alone because I just don't know. I don't want to feel like I am chasing him or bothering him and when he goes silent, there is no warning.  It goes from lovey to disappearing in the snap of fingers. I don't mind reaching out to him in quiet times, but I'm beginning to notice that it is weighing on me. Maybe I am not what he needs, wants? Which makes it hard to reach out.  Is this the way of someone who might have depression that he has not told me about?  Do I ASK? Maybe it's MY boundaries that are in question? I certainly don't want to chase him. I care about him but I have my dignity too. But I also don't want to be insensitive to any mental illness that he doesn't feel comfortable telling me about.    I could really use some thoughts. 

It sounds more like he has issues. It’s not you. He appears to care about you but his moods are imbalanced. It just means he might need more time to work on himself. You don’t need to diagnose him and I’d be wary about doing that. Only recognize what your needs are and if it’s not working for you don’t pursue this. 

[poppyfields]

He sounds extremely conflicted.  

On one hand he tells you to continue reaching out and "caring," but on the other hand, when you do just that, it "scares" him and he disappears.

Please consider that all your caring and loving might actually be pushing him away. 

To say he's got issues is an understatement. 

I'm curious about his ex.  I wouldn't be surprised if the tables were turned in their relationship with HIM chasing her.

It would seem he's more comfortable with that dynamic even though he claims otherwise. 

This is all part and parcel of a person with severe anxiety about closeness and intimacy in a relationship with a woman who loves and cares about him.

Even his ED is a by-product of that anxiety and fear.  He associates sexual intimacy with commitment, the idea of which scares him. 

My brother is exactly this way, as such I'm very familiar with this type of fear and anxiety. 

I agree with de-escalate.  Unless he gets therapy to help with resolving his conflicts and internal demons, there is no chance of this working out, not in a romantic sense anyway.

Take care of you.

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by poppyfields

[SoulOfOne]

2 hours ago, introverted1 said:

Is he in therapy? 

If so, I'd de-escalate to friendship while he works out his issues.

If not, unless you want to try to save him (an impossible task, imo), the same advice applies:  de-escalate. 

He has unresolved issues and, no matter how much you may think your love or concern will "cure" him, it won't.  Unless you relish the thought of being in a relationship where sex is difficult and your partner frequently checks out emotionally, you'd be better off stepping back until he is whole and truly ready for a relationship.

 

No, He isn't in therapy. He was years ago for substance abuse issues but that isn't a thing anymore. I am OK with de-escalating the relationship. It seems that would be easiest, but since I have known him so long and we run in the same circles, how to do that properly while still showing caring and a more friendly love.  Will this be awkward? We haven't been very public about being together, mainly because we thought the mutual acquaintances we have would have things to say and we didn't want the noise while we tried to figure out what we "were."

You are right.  I don't think I can "cure" him nor am I wanting to take that on. 

ugh... 

[SoulOfOne]

2 hours ago, stillafool said:

It doesn't sound like he's what you need.  I think it makes you feel unwanted to have to always be the one to reach out to him instead of the other way around.  I suggest you stop that and get involved with something or someone else to fill your time until he gets in touch with you.

You are right.  It does make me feel unwanted.  

[SoulOfOne]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening. How long have you been dating? Try not to rescue him or play therapist or mother or coddle him. He pushes you away physically, emotionally and sexually. It's important to focus on what You need and want in a relationship, not what all his physiological and psychological problems are about.

We have not even been casually dating for a year.  Probably 9 months.

[SoulOfOne]

52 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

He sounds extremely conflicted.  

On one hand he tells you to continue reaching out and "caring," but on the other hand, when you do just that, it "scares" him and he disappears.

Please consider that all your caring and loving might actually be pushing him away. 

To say he's got issues is an understatement. 

I'm curious about his ex.  I wouldn't be surprised if the tables were turned in their relationship with HIM chasing her.

It would seem he's more comfortable with that dynamic even though he claims otherwise. 

This is all part and parcel of a person with severe anxiety about closeness and intimacy in a relationship with a woman who loves and cares about him.

Even his ED is a by-product of that anxiety and fear.  He associates sexual intimacy with commitment, the idea of which scares him. 

My brother is exactly this way, as such I'm very familiar with this type of fear and anxiety. 

I agree with de-escalate.  Unless he gets therapy to help with resolving his conflicts and internal demons, there is no chance of this working out, not in a romantic sense anyway.

Take care of you.

 

Conflicted is a good word for it.  I let him sit in silence for 3 days and gently (did what I do..ugh) reached out with a "Hey, just wanting to check in. hope you are ok!" and received

 "Just stuck in my head so hang in there with me.  Or not. I'd completely understand if you don't want to."

???  I see this as some sort of self sabotaging behavior.  Like, "If I could pull myself together, this woman would be great-but I am afraid of that, so I am going to act like a wreck to make sure it doesn't work out."  Does that make sense?

I've asked about his ex. She never hung out with our mutual acquaintances so I don't know her at all. He said she didn't like people much. He doesn't say much. She had a good heart, saw him through treatment, said she always wanted to be with him, he never felt it for her though and felt guilt like he used her and owed it to stay with her. But was never quite happy.  --well it doesn't sound like he is happy in general, right? But he sure masks it well. I've known him a long time and never knew this side. Even though when he is feeling good-he is simply amazing. good listener, funny, compassionate. If he didn't have this going SILENT quirk, I could see myself dating him long term. 

So dial this back to "friendly" and smile and nod when we have to cross paths. SMH.  Never been in a situation like this one!

[Wiseman2]

24 minutes ago, SoulOfOne said:

He was years ago for substance abuse issues but that isn't a thing anymore.

He is still on benzodiazepines, so are you sure his hot/cold, push/pull, and ED issues are not related to this? Unfortunately he seems like too much work to date. Perhaps you were better of as friends? That frees you to find someone less confused, and unavailable.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Wiseman2

[introverted1]

17 minutes ago, SoulOfOne said:

I am OK with de-escalating the relationship. It seems that would be easiest, but since I have known him so long and we run in the same circles, how to do that properly while still showing caring and a more friendly love.  Will this be awkward?

I would explain to him that you plan to dial it back.  He may or may not accept that gracefully.  My guess is that he will say something passive-aggressive and/or self-pitying.  Try not to let this bother you.  His reactions are about his own feelings, not what you are (or aren't) doing. 

Alternately, you might be successful in just doing it without explaining, and perhaps he will feel relief.  What was your friendship like before you decided to try having a romantic relationship with each other?

 

[SoulOfOne]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

He is still on benzodiazepines, so are you sure his hot/cold, push/pull, and ED issues are not related to this? Unfortunately he seems like too much work to date. Perhaps you were better of as friends? That frees to y to find someone less confused and unavailable.

No. I am NOT sure that his Hot/Cold Push/Pull aren't related to meds. So I wondered about the level of anxiety or even depression.  I figured in fact that the ED might be med related, and was very understanding about that-even said it out loud. The fact that he laughed and stated "I Don't have ED." (but it sure seemed like he did) was one of the things that made my instincts twitch. I wasn't aware of the Hot/Cold disappearing act that I was in for. I have been reeling trying to figure it out since then. But it makes sense.  It could very well be med related. He hasn't shared any of that with me. At this point, I probably don't even need him to If I am gauging this correctly.  The "I'll contact you about plans" to the vanishing act-might be anxious fear that that kind of physical intimacy would be expected by me or something. And I am a talker.  I would talk this one out. "I am not expecting anything and we can just hang out and be together." But that is where I was stuck.  Do I TALK to him or just dial back.  

[SoulOfOne]

13 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

I would explain to him that you plan to dial it back.  He may or may not accept that gracefully.  My guess is that he will say something passive-aggressive and/or self-pitying.  Try not to let this bother you.  His reactions are about his own feelings, not what you are (or aren't) doing. 

Alternately, you might be successful in just doing it without explaining, and perhaps he will feel relief.  What was your friendship like before you decided to try having a romantic relationship with each other?

 

I can see the self pitying more than the passive aggressive.  I would hope that we would be able to remain friendly. We had a great relationship before. But I can see if he would be too hurt/embarrassed/angry to want to bother.

[SoulOfOne]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

He is still on benzodiazepines, so are you sure his hot/cold, push/pull, and ED issues are not related to this? Unfortunately he seems like too much work to date. Perhaps you were better of as friends? That frees you to find someone less confused, and unavailable.

Damn....I did a little googling on the Push Pull Relationship you mentioned Wiseman2

[ ] 

Really interesting. And sounds oddly familiar. Other than I don't have a fear of abandonment with him, I was just trying to figure out if this is a sign of something else.

Yikes.  Now I'm down a rabbit hole. But it helps with perspective!! 

Edited September 26, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed commercial link

[Lotsgoingon]

Wipe from your mind all the worry about hurting him with talk of mental illness. No need to mention mental illness. And no, I don't think this is depression anyway.

Sounds more to me like he has another gf that he focuses on and gets distracted with a week out of the month  or that he is simply a person who needs to hide and shut down every few weeks.  The way to do this if a person goes through moods like he does is to state this up front with your partner and make clear to your partner that this behavior has nothing to do with them.  

Your job at this stage is to stay with your standards. Period! You are not there to rescue him or heal him or save him. If he needs help or treatment for a mental health issue, it's his job to go get the help , and if he does have some mental illness (which runs rampant in my family of origin), trust me: gf's and wives don't solve that problem. Psychiatrists, therapists and lots of work on the part of the individual solves that problem.

FWI: let's say he were depressed. You still don't want to let him off the hook for being absent and distant. People can be depressed (and the partner thinks OH THAT'S THE REASON  ....) and in fact, they may just not be into the relationship. They might be distant from reasons having nothing to do with depression.  Or they might emotionally distant when depressed and when not depressed.  And it's a bad assumption to assume that if you help someone through a depression they will want to be with you. Actually if they're feeling great, they may want to dump you and date a different kind of person. 

Stay with your standards. If you don't like his withdrawals and shutdowns, then say so. The way to say this is to say I'm not feeling good when you seem to withdraw. I don't know what to do. I am not comfortable with this pattern.  You speak about how his behavior hits you, which is different than criticizing him.

The red flag here is his cluelessness about going distant.  He is unaware that being distant is flamingly OBVIOUS to a partner. That is not good news .

 

[glows]

3 hours ago, SoulOfOne said:

 Do I TALK to him or just dial back.  

Communicate in some way but I wouldn’t get too deep in his problems. There’s a fine line between being helpful and enabling. Slow this down a bit and think also about the effect this situation or relationship has on your life,  your goals, outlook, feelings etc. Are you agitated and anxious? Or relaxed and feeling motivated? All things to consider if you’re looking for something that works or is compatible with you in the long run.

[FMW]

I would recommend backing off (not initiating contact) and see what he does.  Don't try to keep things going on your own.  Don't expect anything to change - so if you aren't ok with things as they are right now (how can you be?), start detaching yourself and don't let him take up more of your emotional energy.  When you start worrying about him or what you should be doing about him, focus on how you are feeling, how this is affecting you, like glows said.  Is this something you want to continue experiencing?

My recent experience with mental illness with the guy I'm involved with has been heartbreaking, and it wasn't something that had been apparent for the three years we've been together.  If it's on display this early on, expect that it will continue.  It's hard to accept that you really can't help, but it's not your responsibility.  It will be easier to detach at nine months of casual dating than after several years of getting more involved.  

Regardless of the reasons for his behavior, the bottom line is this is what he's offering you.  Is it really what you want?  

[ExpatInItaly]

He sounds like too much work, and he can't offer you the sort of relationship you want. 

The reasons aren't all that important, in the end. He's just not on the same page as you and not the right guy for you. 

[SoulOfOne]

I decided to have a gentle conversation with him.  I mentioned gently that I seemed to notice a pattern in his quiet and that I had asked him once before this about it and shared with him that I simply wanted to be given a heads up if he needed time or quiet.  He acknowledged that this was true.  I said to him that I really cared for him, yet that it felt like MY needs weren't being met when I was clear what I needed. I said I knew it might be some work he needed to do and I would be there but backing off (still remaining in a friendly manner, but not advancing in a romantic way).  He was sad-but he did say that he understood.  We had a really good friendly talk about maybe a fear of intimacy, getting close-then pulling away. He talked a bit about being raised and some neglect and never feeling good enough for his father while his father wasn't such a good man. I listened. I said I am not qualified to make any fix it statements as I am not a therapist-but as a friend, I would listen-but maybe a therapist would help.  He actually agreed.  

Because of the circles we both run in-it would be rather impossible for us not to run into each other and be in the same spaces. but it was a loving friendly discussion.

 

[glows]

2 hours ago, SoulOfOne said:

I decided to have a gentle conversation with him.  I mentioned gently that I seemed to notice a pattern in his quiet and that I had asked him once before this about it and shared with him that I simply wanted to be given a heads up if he needed time or quiet.  He acknowledged that this was true.  I said to him that I really cared for him, yet that it felt like MY needs weren't being met when I was clear what I needed. I said I knew it might be some work he needed to do and I would be there but backing off (still remaining in a friendly manner, but not advancing in a romantic way).  He was sad-but he did say that he understood.  We had a really good friendly talk about maybe a fear of intimacy, getting close-then pulling away. He talked a bit about being raised and some neglect and never feeling good enough for his father while his father wasn't such a good man. I listened. I said I am not qualified to make any fix it statements as I am not a therapist-but as a friend, I would listen-but maybe a therapist would help.  He actually agreed.  

Because of the circles we both run in-it would be rather impossible for us not to run into each other and be in the same spaces. but it was a loving friendly discussion.

 

I know these things often aren’t instant and we say things like this so as not to hurt the other person but I hope you also see that by hanging onto a friendship (if he has feelings for you and vice versa) may hinder you from finding or giving yourself to the next person, a new relationship. I’d let this fade over time especially since you have mutual circles. Best to have good boundaries in order to move on with your lives.

[poppyfields]

@SoulOfOnethe below comment was taken from another thread made by a very well respected and experienced poster, and which I very much agree with.   

>>Men don't stay with the woman that rescue them. <<

Be careful to not allow him to turn you into his therapist or best friend. 

You can get stuck in these roles which may hinder your ability to move on with your life and meet a man who is functional and available for the type of relationship you desire and need. 

Wish him well and move on is my advice. 

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by poppyfields

[smackie9]

On 9/26/2022 at 11:55 PM, ExpatInItaly said:

He sounds like too much work, and he can't offer you the sort of relationship you want. 

The reasons aren't all that important, in the end. He's just not on the same page as you and not the right guy for you. 

This is exactly what I was thinking...so not worth it. Girl you need to pass on this guy. 

[Alpacalia]

37 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

This is exactly what I was thinking...so not worth it. Girl you need to pass on this guy. 

Agree.

Just reading the initial post is mentally exhausting.

On 9/26/2022 at 10:16 AM, SoulOfOne said:

I remind him that I am there and I love and care for him, and we have known each other a long time but not romantically so. I am only trying to figure out what he needs from me in a relationship sense

Those who are right with you will have a clear, unobstructed view of the parts of you that you find unique and special. You won’t have to explain yourself. Explicit explanations are unnecessary.  You won’t have to try so hard to show them who you are. 

If they don’t. Then okay. Goodbye.'

Talk to as many people as possible and don't stop until you find someone who's as crazy about you as you are. You will feel it when you find it. This won't require you to search, grab, and claw.

Simple, organic, and peaceful. 

[SoulOfOne]

Thank you all.  Yes. I see.  I am not going to be friendly and enable him to tell me all his issues.  I am not going to fix him.  I just hate leaving anyone with animosity, so I tried to be a bit more gentle, however I do have boundaries and like I said, my dignity. I've no plans on "helping" him through this. we WILL run into each other, where I will smile and nod and be cordial. I don't plan on pursuing this.  We haven't communicated since the last chat. It probably stung him more than he let on I'm guessing. I wish him well.  I am very grateful to you all for helping clarify what I think I knew deep down.