Does physical attraction need to be immediate? or can it develop overtime?

[Hopeful30]

29 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I am now in a relationship with a man who I find attractive, but I doubt that he would meet societal standards for “handsome.” That said, when he looks into my eyes and smiles at me, I find him to be quite handsome and he has the ability to make my knees melt. Does this have anything to do with him (some), or the relationship that we share (some). But really, I would say that my attraction to the man also has a lot to do with me. I know that I am primarily responsible for my own arousal/sexual fulfillment. And some days, I have to really work to keep that attraction/connection (when we are annoying each other about the mundane things in life. That’s just the reality of a long term relationship - even the best relationships go through good and bad periods, and all take commitment and work). That said, what I find attractive has changed - physical is only one part. I am also very attracted to him because of his sense of humour. I am attracted to him because of the twinkle he gets in his eye when he teases me. I am attracted to him because of the kindness that he shows me. I am attracted to him because of the care that he offers, when we snuggle on the sofa and he runs his hand through my hair or along my low back. I am attracted to him because he is a good man, easy going, hard working, thoughtful, protective, etc…

It sounds like your attraction to him grows the more you know him. What about sexual attraction? Did you sense this from the beginning? Or did the physical attraction ("I find him to be quite handsome") grow on you?

[Hopeful30]

56 minutes ago, giotto said:

I can only speak from my experience. I haven't had that many partners (about 6 - I met my future wife when I was 22), but with all of them I experienced a very strong sexual chemistry. All of them. I think that, yes, it's pretty common. That doesn't mean it might not fade away a bit after many years together - life happens! But I would never marry somebody with whom I'm not very compatible in bed. It's such a marvellous thing...   

Do you find that it enhances the relationship overall? Does it enhance qualities like trust, communication, problem solving? Or without those other qualities, this sexual compatibility would not be enough?
 

36 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

to determine why on earth you find married men or deadbeat losers sexually attractive

Is that relevant though? Sexual attraction (in the physical sense) is about pheromones and the nervous system. It's the initial layer, and then we have mental and emotional attractions too. My question is... can we bypass the physical one and have it develop from a mental or emotional attraction alone? Or do the pheromones and nervous system (for example) need to be compatible from the get-go? Whether these guys were married or deadbeat, I doubt those factors played a role in the initial sexual attraction. If we could choose who gets us aroused, the world would be very different. 

 

36 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Meaning this is about you and whats happening within you.

Yes exactly. What to change about myself?

 

36 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Perhaps there are some underlying fears lurking within that prevent you from opening up and feeling sexually vulnerable with appropriate available men?

I don't think so. The 'appropriateness' of these men was not determined until after sexual chemistry happened. Or do you mean that sexual chemistry can be predetermined by these things?

 

36 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I am curious about your parents.  Were they ever in love and sexually attracted and it just died somewhere along the way?  

Or did they go into it knowing they would never be in love?

Obviously they had sex since they had children but did they enjoy it?

I would never be happy with "duty sex," or obligatory sex or sex just to have sex.

For me (and many women I associate with) sex is highly emotional and if there is no attraction, frankly I'd prefer to go without or do it myself.

This is not a judgment although it may sound that way.  I am genuinely curious because imo the path you're choosing doesn't sound healthy to me at all, or a path that will bring you happiness, joy and peace In the long term.  

It was an arranged marriage. From what they tell me, my dad was more excited that my mom, who grew to love him. 

"Duty sex", or what I call 'maintenance sex', is absolutely necessary. Doesn't mean you have to force yourself. Just means being open to regular sex for the relationship (not just yourself), and not needing 'absolute passion' every time. I think it's healthy.

I have no idea if or how much they enjoyed it and I don't really want to know lol

"I'd prefer to go without or do it myself." I'm on the other side of that coin sista

Can you clarify by which path you mean? From my perspective, compromising on some qualities for the sake of others is not uncommon? After all, no one has everything. It's most about finding a balance that works. Namely, how much sexual attraction is enough?

Edited September 28, 2022 by Hopeful30

[BaileyB]

18 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

It sounds like your attraction to him grows the more you know him. What about sexual attraction? Did you sense this from the beginning? Or did the physical attraction ("I find him to be quite handsome") grow on you?

It definitely grew with time. He says, when he met me he knew that I was “the one.” We met at a social gathering and he came right over to talk with me. I could tell that he was interested. 

I remember thinking - nice guy. We had a lot in common. I thought he was good looking, but I wasn’t sure that I was truly attracted to him - certainly not in a, you make my heart skip And make me want to find the nearest hotel room kind of way. 

My friends encouraged me to give it a chance. And, I was still a little undecided on the first few dates. And then, we had a date where we went to a board game cafe. He taught me to play his favorite game, and he was so kind and patient in the way that he taught me to play and allowed me to win.  I felt my attraction to him growing that night… I remember driving home thinking to myself - this is good. 

So yeah, for me there was a hint from the beginning. I knew that I liked him, I knew thought he was cute (honestly, in a middle age man kind of a way), but the attraction absolutely grew over time. And I will say, when we haven’t spent time together or we are annoying each other over the little things that happen in a long term relationship… we go back to this place. We do something fun together, we cook a nice meal, we tease and laugh and we find that attraction/chemistry again…

Just my experience, for what it’s worth. Everybody is different. Men and women are different. And it’s complicated, if it was not we would all be happily partnered up! 

[giotto]

9 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

Do you find that it enhances the relationship overall? Does it enhance qualities like trust, communication, problem solving? Or without those other qualities, this sexual compatibility would not be enough?
 

It enhances the relationship, because you build trust and intimacy, which brings you close. But alone wouldn't be enough. You need many other other different qualities - some you have mentioned here.  

Edited September 28, 2022 by giotto

[BaileyB]

10 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

Or do you mean that sexual chemistry can be predetermined by these things?

Yes, there are many women who are very attracted to “the bad boys.” They like the personality characteristics, they like the drama and excitement that these men/these relationships offer. 

11 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

My question is... can we bypass the physical one and have it develop from a mental or emotional attraction alone?

In my opinion, no. You would have essentially what your parents had - would you not? 

This is just my armchair psychology assessment, but I wonder if you are searching for an intensely physical relationship because it was not what you experienced in your home. You have clearly decided that what your parents shared was not enough, but you have swung a little too far in the opposing direction - ie. placing a little too much emphasis on the physical/sexual feelings of arousal and attraction. 

[introverted1]

17 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

Is that relevant though?

It is absolutely relevant that you have only had sexual attraction for men who were either unsuitable or unavailable.  Have you considered exploring this in counseling?

[Hopeful30]

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

This is just my armchair psychology assessment, but I wonder if you are searching for an intensely physical relationship because it was not what you experienced in your home. You have clearly decided that what your parents shared was not enough, but you have swung a little too far in the opposing direction - ie. placing a little too much emphasis on the physical/sexual feelings of arousal and attraction. 

I believe my problem is the opposite, not putting enough emphasis on sexual arousal and hoping it can develop otherwise. I'm beginning to think that physical and sexual attraction should be important in relationship criteria lol 

[BaileyB]

Just now, Hopeful30 said:

I believe my problem is the opposite, not putting enough emphasis on sexual arousal and hoping it can develop otherwise. I'm beginning to think that physical and sexual attraction should be important in relationship criteria lol 

Sure, when you are searching for a husband and life partner. 

And yet, the men with whom you have been most attracted to have been unavailable/unsuitable. 

Your parents married because they were suitable partners but there was little physical/sexual attraction. 

The two must be connected in some way, as what has attracted you is the polar opposite of your childhood/family experience.

[fred123]

On 9/25/2022 at 6:19 PM, Weezy1973 said:

Attraction is on a continuum. Say 10 is “oh my god I want to rip your clothes off immediately and have at ‘er” and 1 is “never in a million years even if we were the last two people on the planet”. I’d happily go on a second date with anybody that was a 5 and above as long as there was some chemistry in the first date. 

that would mean the guys who were 5s and 6s wouldnt get away with saying certain things that 9s and 10s would?

why should a guy date you knowing this? he gets the raw end of the deal

[Hopeful30]

2 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

It is absolutely relevant that you have only had sexual attraction for men who were either unsuitable or unavailable.  Have you considered exploring this in counseling?

I have been, so far what we've discovered is that I need a more realistic approach to men. This includes (of course) noticing my distortions, such as sexual chemistry is not that relevant when it comes to healthy relationships. Apparently it is, which is disappointing because of my experiences. In my defense though, I had similar difficulties prior to my poor experiences with highly sexual relationships. I'm a late bloomer (19 years) because it took that long to find a man I felt sexually attracted to. Disclosure: I don't have any history of sexual abuse or molestation.

[introverted1]

1 minute ago, Hopeful30 said:

I have been, so far what we've discovered is that I need a more realistic approach to men. This includes (of course) noticing my distortions, such as sexual chemistry is not that relevant when it comes to healthy relationships. Apparently it is, which is disappointing because of my experiences. In my defense though, I had similar difficulties prior to my poor experiences with highly sexual relationships. I'm a late bloomer (19 years) because it took that long to find a man I felt sexually attracted to. Disclosure: I don't have any history of sexual abuse or molestation.

Have you considered that this is a way of avoiding emotional intimacy?  If you can only be sexually attracted to men who are wrong for you (for whatever reason), then there is no chance that those relationships will become true partnerships.

I don't think the solution is to learn how to phone it in but to perhaps explore why you (perhaps unconsciously) choose men with whom you cannot have a healthy, lasting relationship. It sounds as though there is some disconnect between emotional and physical intimacy going on for you.

[poppyfields]

43 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

The 'appropriateness' of these men was not determined until after sexual chemistry happened. 

Meaning, when you became sexually attracted to these men, you did not know the men were married?  

Or had no job, anger issues, problems with the law and abusive? 

Is so, that's an entirely different problem worthy of consideration and exploration. 

Learn to identify and choose better men!  

I realize sexual attraction is about pheromones etc but there is a direct link as to why you are finding these men sexually attractive and yes it IS very much relevant.

In any event, you seem set in your ways about this and don't appear open to alternative ways of approaching it or resolving it.

So in closing all I will say is I wish you luck finding a man who is on board with your needs and requirements.

I'm sure they're out there, perhaps you could get on a dating app and in your profile state exactly what you need. 

A 'companion' who shares the same core values and with whom you wish to share a life and family where sexual intimacy and attraction is not a priority.

That might work. 

Again, good luck to you. 

EDIT:  Agree with everything @introverted1recently posted.  It's worth considering anyway. 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by poppyfields

[Hopeful30]

3 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Have you considered that this is a way of avoiding emotional intimacy?  If you can only be sexually attracted to men who are wrong for you (for whatever reason), then there is no chance that those relationships will become true partnerships.

Out of everyone you've been attracted to, how many have been 'right' for you? Everyone else will have been 'wrong' for you. If we always attract or feel attracted to the right people, everyone would be happy and settled in relationships. Emotional intimacy can be scary, I admit, but I'm actively making an effort to engage in relationships like that. This current situation is a man I can get emotionally intimate with. I shared quite a bit about myself when we hung out. He even said I am so brave for being vulnerable. I think that's why I'm tripping up on the sexual part. Would be so much easier if it was there.

[Hopeful30]

4 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Learn to identify and choose better men!  

Enlighten me.  

[poppyfields]

6 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

Enlighten me.  

I don't have the tools to enlighten you, it comes from within.

It relates to self-esteem, self-worth, and how much you value yourself and is something a good qualified therapist can help you work through. 

I will tell you that I have developed attractions to men who weren't right for me for one reason or another and I left before any damage was done. 

However, married men, men with no jobs, anger issues, abusive -  no I have never been sexually drawn to such men in any way shape or form.

I was able to identify such men very early on and said no thanks. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by poppyfields

[Weezy1973]

@Hopeful30 I think it’s important to have a minimum baseline of attraction to start. That baseline does not have to be “throbbing” “weak in the knees” but there has to be something appealing. It’s not an all or nothing proposition, but that’s somewhat how you’re presenting it. If there’s something there to start, it can grow. Like in my case with my wife it grew once we had sex and were sexually compatible. With another poster it grew because they played board games. But in both cases there was something right from the start. 
 

Is there a common theme physically with the few men you have felt sexual attraction towards? Do you have a particularly rare “type”? Or were they conventionally attractive men?

[introverted1]

54 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

Out of everyone you've been attracted to, how many have been 'right' for you? Everyone else will have been 'wrong' for you. If we always attract or feel attracted to the right people, everyone would be happy and settled in relationships. Emotional intimacy can be scary, I admit, but I'm actively making an effort to engage in relationships like that. This current situation is a man I can get emotionally intimate with. I shared quite a bit about myself when we hung out. He even said I am so brave for being vulnerable. I think that's why I'm tripping up on the sexual part. Would be so much easier if it was there.

Having both sexual and emotional intimacy in the same package can be downright scary, especially if you have any sort of abandonment or similar issues in your past. it's an extremely vulnerable position to be in. This could be why you find men with whom you are either sexually compatible OR emotionally/intellectually compatible, but not both.  It's a way of holding back and, typically, fear is the motivator, even if it's not apparently so.  This is why I suggested discussing it with your counselor. 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Hopeful30 said:

It was an arranged marriage.

Are you scheduled for an arranged marriage too? Do you have a choice or will your parents and the man's parents be involved?

[poppyfields]

3 hours ago, Hopeful30 said:

"I'd prefer to go without or do it myself." I'm on the other side of that coin sista

LOL, you're not alone, many people are able to enjoy sex for the mere physical aspect of it, I am not one of those people.   I need to feel an emotional connection otherwise it leaves me COLD and empty, and I'd just rather not.  

3 hours ago, Hopeful30 said:

Can you clarify by which path you mean? From my perspective, compromising on some qualities for the sake of others is not uncommon? After all, no one has everything. It's most about finding a balance that works. Namely, how much sexual attraction is enough?

I wholeheartedly agree there needs to be a balance, absolutely!   I also agree with compromising and you are correct, no one has 100% of every quality we seek, it's unrealistic to expect that.

And when we are whole and complete individuals on our own, we don't need our partner to complete us in every single way.

With respect to sexual attraction and chemistry, I think it's fair to say most people need to feel some element of sexual attraction and desire for their partner otherwise as has been stated earlier, it's a friendship.

And perhaps that is all you need and require - a strong friendship with your partner/husband, with whom you can enjoy a sexual relationship without the sexual chemistry, attraction, desire and passion.

That would not work for me personally, I need to feel that strong connection - physically, sexually, emotionally   I don't need to feel that every single minute of every single day, it ebbs and flows, there are peaks and valleys.  But without it, again it would leave me feeling cold and empty so no thank you.

It's up to you, there is really no "wrong" or "right" as far as I am concerned.  As long as you and your partner on the same page re what you both need and expect from each other, that is fine!

And from reading your posts, it sounds like you are perfectly fine without that sexual attraction and desire, far be it for me to say that's wrong or you should feel otherwise.

I mean if you wanted that for yourself, I might tell you to explore why you're unable to feel those emotions with available men, but again you seem fine to go without.  

Like mother, like daughter? 

For me it was like father, like daughter.  He eventually divorced my mom for not being able to provide the love and desire he needed.  He ended up marrying another woman who was able to provide these things and she became the love of his life until she passed.

My only advice is when you meet a man, let him know.  Most men need to feel a woman's sexual attraction and desire before committing, so again you may be hard-pressed to find a man who will agree to your terms.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by poppyfields

[Alpacalia]

5 hours ago, Hopeful30 said:

I have been praying for such a relationship for a very long time lol Any tips on how to find such a man? Should I date men who sexually attract me first, and then consider the rest? Should I date everyone in general? How can I make more effective my selection process?

For starters. Don't date married men. 

There are certain qualities that you're either drawn to or you're not.

Figure out which of those qualities are good for you and important to you and toss out the rest. 

 

 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

And from reading your posts, it sounds like you are perfectly fine without that sexual attraction and desire, far be it for me to say that's wrong or you should feel otherwise.

From how I read it, this is not what the OP wants at all. Just the opposite - she wants to experience that really strong chemistry - but she’s 36 and it’s only happened with 4 men in her life, and there’s been nothing in the last 6 years. She absolutely wants marriage and a family so she’s wondering if a marriage can be healthy without that initial intense chemistry. Again, OP, I think there has to be something to start, but it doesn’t have to be earth shattering. In the context of a long marriage earth shattering, knee weakening chemistry at the early stages won’t matter much. But complete lack of attraction or repulsion is also a non-starter. Something in the middle can work. 

[poppyfields]

21 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

From how I read it, this is not what the OP wants at all. Just the opposite - she wants to experience that really strong chemistry - but she’s 36 and it’s only happened with 4 men in her life, and there’s been nothing in the last 6 years. She absolutely wants marriage and a family so she’s wondering if a marriage can be healthy without that initial intense chemistry. Again, OP, I think there has to be something to start, but it doesn’t have to be earth shattering. In the context of a long marriage earth shattering, knee weakening chemistry at the early stages won’t matter much. But complete lack of attraction or repulsion is also a non-starter. Something in the middle can work. 

Well it that's the case I am utterly confused.  I based my opinion on several comments she has posted throughout this thread such as she believes sexual chemistry and passion are not necessary to sustain a long term happy healthy relationship/marriage.

And asking questions like "does this connection/chemistry/energy need necessarily be sexual in nature? From my experience and learning, sexual chemistry doesn't help couples work through marital challenges like trust, accountability, communication, etc., which are essentially the building blocks of a healthy and long-lasting relationship. If anything, it makes it difficult to walk away from relationships that don't work."

Both these comments among others lead me to conclude she is not interested in that aspect of a relationship, she seeks more of a friend, a companion to spend her life with with whom she shares common goals, the same values and desire for family.   And emotional connection.  Similar to the type of marriage her parents had.

And that sexual chemistry and passion can actually detract from achieving these things.

@Hopeful30 can you clarify?  What is it you are actually seeking and desiring?

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by poppyfields

[Hopeful30]

3 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

@Hopeful30 Is there a common theme physically with the few men you have felt sexual attraction towards? Do you have a particularly rare “type”? Or were they conventionally attractive men?

I'm not sure about conventional, but to me personally all but one were very handsome. One of them was extremely physically unattractive but I couldn't ignore the sexual chemistry. They all vary in appearance, ethnicity, personality. Allow me to be matter-of-fact about this:

Case #1 - skinny and fit, unattractive face, dark features, large manhood, divorced, 3 children (early 40s)

Case #2 - tall, dark, handsome, large build, large manhood, mentally ill, crime (early 30s)

Case #3 - short, small build, fair features, gorgeous smile, married with children (late 30s)

Case #4 - short, rugged, medium features, strong build, single and delicious (early 20s ) 

 

Short = between 5'2 and 5'5. Ethnicities are American, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Latino. 

Keep in mind these men fall across a 10-year span (my entire 20s).

 

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Are you scheduled for an arranged marriage too? Do you have a choice or will your parents and the man's parents be involved?

I have asked them to find me a partner, so they are looking. I have a choice in the matter of course, however they handle the initial selection process. My current situationship was by their matching. 

 

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

For starters. Don't date married men. 

There are certain qualities that you're either drawn to or you're not.

Figure out which of those qualities are good for you and important to you and toss out the rest. 

That was only one guy  (see above ) and I never acted on it of course. Do you think 'forbidden fruit' plays a role here? 

 

2 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Again, OP, I think there has to be something to start, but it doesn’t have to be earth shattering. In the context of a long marriage earth shattering, knee weakening chemistry at the early stages won’t matter much. But complete lack of attraction or repulsion is also a non-starter. Something in the middle can work. 

Thanks for this  I guess I'm moving on then. I never thought my age would become an insecurity until now. 

 

15 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

she seeks more of a friend, a companion to spend her life with with whom she shares common goals, the same values and desire for family.   

And emotional connection.  Similar to the type of marriage her parents had.

And that sexual chemistry and passion can actually detract from achieving these things.

@Hopeful30 can you clarify?  What is it you are actually seeking and desiring?

 

You've misunderstood a little but that's okay  I think I've learned what I needed to. Sexual chemistry / attraction is an important component of relationships, I just don't want to accept that because it makes finding a partner that much more challenging. And considering my age bracket and goals, it feels like another delay. 

[poppyfields]

56 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

You've misunderstood a little but that's okay  I think I've learned what I needed to. Sexual chemistry / attraction is an important component of relationships, I just don't want to accept that because it makes finding a partner that much more challenging. And considering my age bracket and goals, it feels like another delay. 

I see, thanks for clarifying.  And actually, that is what I originally thought at the beginning of this thread but then somewhere along the way it veered into you questioning whether sexual chemistry and passion were even necessary, so I sort of went with that. 

58 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

Thanks for this  I guess I'm moving on then.

May I ask what you are moving on from?  The man you recently dated for whom you felt no attraction?

Have you heard from him?  Last I heard, you had not but perhaps that's changed.

In any event, this was a really good thread, and it appears you took away a lot from it! 

 

 

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, Hopeful30 said:

That was only one guy  (see above ) and I never acted on it of course. Do you think 'forbidden fruit' plays a role here? 

It's certainly a possibility.

The chemistry of sexual attraction trumped common sense.

Likewise, with the other relationship mentioned (the jobless lawbreaker).

The taste is alluring, but you know it isn't good for you.

That's not meant to be a dig at you. You're not the first person to feel attraction to things that aren't necessarily good for you, nor are you the last. Not everyone makes perfect relationship choices every single time.

To answer this question, I guess you have to determine what function these men served in your life. As a non-therapist, I hope to not make any assumptions or speculate. 

Considering your intellectual capacity, maybe that's why you found him intellectually attractive (the person this thread is about) to begin with?

Like attracts what's familiar.

I think it is pertinent to point out that it is helpful to not think of yourself in neat boxes and try to fit into neat boxes where you are supposed to fit. 

I don't find that a good relationship is defined by just one quality. I've had a few really good ones with wonderful men. I've also had a crap one. 

I find that strong partnerships are typically between people who have shared values and goals, mutual respect and deep love for each other.

Yes, in most cases, that involves mutual sexual attraction AND sex because aside from it being a physical act that is how we express our love and affection and desire for each other. But I feel that sexual chemistry alone shouldn’t be confused with love. There is no automatic link between sexual arousal and the development of a loving relationship. Even if you have good sexual chemistry with someone, that does not guarantee you will get along for the long haul.

Anywho. Those are just a few thoughts that come to mind. Hope it helps!

Edited September 28, 2022 by Alpacalia