Boyfriend wants to sleep in separate rooms

[stillafool]

48 minutes ago, MomInHer40s said:

That is not correct. I had tenants before he moved in, and there was nothing wrong with them. I evicted my tenants (and paid them compensation) so that he could move in. I don't need him to live there at all. My apartment is really nice and very well located. If he moves out I could rent it for $300 more than he is paying. 

I suspect you evicted those tenants to move him in hoping to make you guys one big family and to get him to remain there with you.  He is a single man living alone paying cheap rent while you are his landlady.  With the costs to rent an apartment these days it's clear why he moved there.  Who else would reduce the rent by $300, what a deal for him.

[Gaeta]

19 hours ago, MomInHer40s said:

7) In terms of him being divorced or not, I respect everyone else's opinions on whether people should wait to have the divorce paper in hand or not before starting to date. For me, as I stated before, that's not something that I care about or feel makes a difference outside of perhaps being able to own a house together.

Like you, I am Canadian (French), so I understand your stand on the fact he's not divorce yet. We are more liberal around those issues. It took something like 4 years for my divorce to be final, by the time I got my divorce certificate I was already in another relationship and owning a house with that new man. 

That being said: Even if I felt free without that certificate paper when I got it, I remember feeling *now I'm really free, do I really want the man I'm with, am I really in love with him, am I making a mistake *, that certificate generated all types of doubts in me. Do not dismiss the power of that divorce certificate. 

Also, I've learned a huge lesson during my last break up. A man cannot sustain an emotional connection without sexual intimacy. If he is the one lowering the amount of intimacy, it's because his emotional connection is on the decline. Do NOT fool yourself!

I think you gave too much too fast to this man. You also met him while he was down and struggling emotionally and he needed you as his emotional sponge. Men don't stay with the woman that rescue them. Please give it serious thought. Read about it. 

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, MomInHer40s said:

His kids don't know that we are a couple. We discussed this and think that for the time being it's best given his custody battle. No need to throw oil on the fire (with the ex). Also, he has better access to the kids now, but didn't have a lot of access for a long time. So his relationship with the kids needs rebuilding. He needs to focus on them when he has them. 

Are you kidding?  They have been separated for years (according to you) and he still wants to hide the fact that he's dating?  If the kids love you so much as you say, why would they have a problem with it?  I don't see how any court expects a man or woman whose been separated for years to not have a lover somewhere.  That doesn't add up.  He probably is just hiding you from her and using the kids as another excuse not to sleep with you.   If your kids have to be exposed to your sleeping with him, I'd make sure that his were too or we wouldn't sleep together.  I do admire him for putting his kids feelings first rather than his sex life.

Edited September 29, 2022 by stillafool

[NuevoYorko]

1 hour ago, MomInHer40s said:

His kids don't know that we are a couple. We discussed this and think that for the time being it's best given his custody battle.

Oh.  This is huge.   You are keeping your relationship from his children, who actually live in your "hybrid" living situation half of their lives. 

What do they think when they are hanging around with your kids? 

You said that you use his daughter's bedroom for your office when she is not there ... how on Earth is that OK?  I think it's inappropriate even if you were acknowledged by him as his partner, but now, the girl just has a general landlord / roommate person taking over her bedroom?    Are you aware that even navigating this with his daughter will be experienced as a pressure by the man?

You have a tendency to be  dismissive.  His sleep needs are "a dumb excuse" and you don't think his marital status is important because, in your personal opinion, marriage is a lame institution.  

OK.  But I think that most of this man's waking hours, when he is not working, are consumed with issues around his marriage.   He is not divorced.  There are complications.  The custody of the kids is not figured out.  AND the kids live "with" you but not really, and they don't even know you are in a relationship.

Him moving there without the kids even knowing about your relationship was a really bad judgement call and now that you've shared this, I am pretty sure that he realizes he made a big mistake. Mature adults with kids from a prior marriage usually take some care with how they introduce the new significant other.  This did not happen.    

He is definitely not thriving, living a lie.  The "talk about it after 6 months" was probably a last ditch idea.  Maybe by some miracle he could get his issues resolved and you two could start fresh-ish, but that is not going to be the case.  

[poppyfields]

5 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

A man cannot sustain an emotional connection without sexual intimacy.

 

6 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Men don't stay with the woman that rescue them. 

These two statements should be cut and pasted to every woman's fridge and read every morning as affirmations.

Spot on!!!  

[introverted1]

1 hour ago, MomInHer40s said:

His kids don't know that we are a couple.

Really?

I think you are underestimating his kids who 1) probably have some sense of the dynamic between their dad and you, even if you haven't articulated it;  2) spend time with your kids who do know that the adults are a couple;  and 3) are no doubt questioned by the wife about what the living situation is.  If the kids aren't smart enough to put it together, I am pretty sure she is.

This is a mess, OP.

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by introverted1

[stillafool]

23 hours ago, MomInHer40s said:

My daughter usually goes to the bathroom once at night. So do I actually so if that were the main issue, then me going to the bathroom should also be an issue. I see how everyone getting up before he does can be an issue, but the bathroom at night I think is a dumb excuse.

He makes his own schedule and often starts at 10 am and then works late in the evening when he doesn't have the kids. This schedule to be honest is not my preference either since him working late on our few days to ourselves is not great.

I think it's kinda telling how he feels about you by the way he acts towards your kids.  He cannot tolerate them even going to the bathroom at night, asking you to ask them if you can sleep upstairs leaving them alone at night and they are 10 and under.  I bet he wouldn't leave his kids alone somewhere to sleep with you.  This means he has no intention of ever living with you and being a father figure to them.  You come as a package deal.

[MomInHer40s]

44 minutes ago, stillafool said:

I suspect you evicted those tenants to move him in hoping to make you guys one big family and to get him to remain there with you.  He is a single man living alone paying cheap rent while you are his landlady.  With the costs to rent an apartment these days it's clear why he moved there.  Who else would reduce the rent by $300, what a deal for him.

I didn't reduce to rent for him and the apartment is not cheap at all. It's definitely on the higher end of the market for the size given location and recently renovated. He's paying the same as previous tenants but I could now rent it for $300 more. I had tenants who moved out during a lockdown during the pandemic and had to reduce the rent at the time since I could only show the apartment virtually. It's right next to the university and was previously renting it to students at a higher price. With courses being online and the lockdown situation, I had to reduce the rent for the previous tenants. But it's still not cheap rent. if he moves out, I could re-rent if for more and he could find something cheaper elsewhere in the city. He asked me to evict my tenants because he wanted to move in to be closer to me and see me more often. That's at least what he said at the time. 

[stillafool]

10 minutes ago, MomInHer40s said:

He asked me to evict my tenants because he wanted to move in to be closer to me and see me more often.

Yes and the fact (as you said earlier) he couldn't stand where he was living and spent most of the time at your place because he didn't want to sleep there.  That was a convenient move for him.

[poppyfields]

OP, agree with others, you're being bamboozled but course like most of us, you will need to learn this the hard way.  

You will get hurt in the end, that's pretty clear, but hopefully you will learn from it, grow, evolve.

Try to not become bitter, that is soul destroying which is never good. 

 

[Versacehottie]

One thing (not sure if it's been pointed out) is that you seem to have a bunch of anxiety and fretting about this situation. Whereas he is doing what he pleases and got the best of both worlds (and yes it would appear as if he does have some sort of declining interest or perhaps his own issues of why his previous relationship didn't work are emerging).

The one thing--whether you are expressing it to him or not--is that you seem to be trying to hold on tighter and do everything in your power to make this work while he is retreating. You have to look at that dynamic and not really try to hold on tighter but reset the balance of power. It's too one-sided. And I mean romantically/emotionally reset it. If a living arrangement "deal" was part of his thought process (such as escaping a previous bad living situation or saving money bc he spends a lot of time with you anyway), it's going to be/or IS problematic. Being part of a couple with you has to have an emotional/romantic reason rather than a logistical/financial one and now those two things are intertwined....as well as you have the power in the logistical-financial realm (which I would bet he really doesn't like even if he took the deal! Probably makes him feel trapped and resentful as if it's not his choice...a lot of that will follow normal consumer behavior patterns (ie things "purchased" or decided on bc there is a "deal" tend to lose excitement for the purchaser rapidly) because money factored into his thinking...and now that is all mixed up with his thoughts about you.  

I would guess that realizing you have far bigger problems than what bed is slept on as a couple, whether consciously or unconsciously you know it and that is the reason you have anxiety and some urgency about this. That is totally my takeaway from reading this (as well I think there might have been a previous thread about you guys, right?). This isn't good but IMO you aren't good to power struggle him into complying. I would back off and see if what he CHOOSES to do meets your needs. If he chooses stuff that doesn't make you happy then I would end it.  You can only fool yourself for so long. I agree that putting yourself in a rescuer or savior position is a bad move. The sleeping arrangements are just a sign of all the other mess going on. Good luck

Edited September 29, 2022 by Versacehottie

[Gaeta]

59 minutes ago, MomInHer40s said:

 He asked me to evict my tenants because he wanted to move in to be closer to me and see me more often. That's at least what he said at the time. 

Oh god! 

I'm speechless. 

OP, you really cannot put all these pieces together?  I think deep down you can. You know this is going nowhere. 

[Els]

The more details emerge, the more bizarre it sounds. So now his kids don't know that you are a couple at all (!!!), and he asked you to evict your tenants for him to move in???

The question that still puzzles me is why none of this was a problem for you until he needed to sleep in a different bed.

[Gaeta]

I think this man is an opportunist. 

I felt that in your last thread, and I am feeling it even more in this thread. The way he handles his divorce, the split of assets, the child support, it seems he's ready to drag this in court as long as he can to make some type of futile monetary gain. You said he's a high earner so he can afford what the court will tell him to pay. When his children are old enough to say they want to live with dad at 50% then he can get a financial break. 

I remember your story well because summer 2021 I was also dating a man that was divorcing his doctor-ex and dragging it in court for every penny he could get out of her. He was also an opportunist. He did not ask me to kick out my tenant for his benefit, but he did try to borrow and important amount of money from me EVEN if he too was a high earner. 

A man that's ready to move on with this life will not want infinite court battles, he will pay his child support, he will be flexible with the separation of assets, he won't hide his new lady from his ex (I don't believe one second that his ex could cause him trouble if she learns he's in relationship, a court will not keep a father from seeing his children for trivial reasons like that, heck even prisoners have access to their children in our Country).

[MomInHer40s]

49 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

The one thing--whether you are expressing it to him or not--is that you seem to be trying to hold on tighter and do everything in your power to make this work while he is retreating. You have to look at that dynamic and not really try to hold on tighter but reset the balance of power. It's too one-sided. And I mean romantically/emotionally reset it. If a living arrangement "deal" was part of his thought process (such as escaping a previous bad living situation or saving money bc he spends a lot of time with you anyway), it's going to be/or IS problematic.

This has been brought up a few times, and just want to reiterate that this living situation is not advantageous for him from a financial perspective. It would have cost him less money to move into a similar place closer to where his ex wife live. Like A LOT cheaper. Whether he now feels uncomfortable about me being his land lady now is another topic and you might be right about that. Just wanted to set this straight though. 

I would guess that realizing you have far bigger problems than what bed is slept on as a couple, whether consciously or unconsciously you know it and that is the reason you have anxiety and some urgency about this. That is totally my takeaway from reading this (as well I think there might have been a previous thread about you guys, right?). This isn't good but IMO you aren't good to power struggle him into complying. I would back off and see if what he CHOOSES to do meets your needs. If he chooses stuff that doesn't make you happy then I would end it.  You can only fool yourself for so long. I agree that putting yourself in a rescuer or savior position is a bad move. The sleeping arrangements are just a sign of all the other mess going on. Good luck

I agree with you on this. My sense of unease is not so much about the sleeping situation but about how I have the sense that there is something else going on, and that worries me. It's like we are living a double life: he's very close and affectionate when there are not kids around, and the minute there are kids it gets a little weird, especially just my kids and not his. There's a distance on those days that concerns me. 

I agree with you that there isn't any way that I will make him "comply", and I certainly have no interest in doing this. I don't think that you can make people want to be with you. If they don't want to be with you then that's that. Nothing you can do about it. The tricky thing here is that he keeps repeating that he wants to be with me, that he loves me, that he wants to grow old with me etc, but then half the time his actions don't quite align with his words. I don't think that he's lying when he says those things. He's definitely not perfect, but he's absolutely incapable of lying! So, if what he says he truly means, why are his actions often not saying the same? It is anxiety inducing!

 

[MomInHer40s]

Many addressed the fact that he hasn't told his kids that we are a couple. We actually put a lot of thought into how to introduce the kids and even had a session with a therapist to talk this through. 

Obviously kids must know. His youngest calls me "auntie" so clearly gets the sense that I'm more than just the downstairs tenant. And his ex knows for sure as well. He has told her that he is in a relationship. I'm sure she'll put the pieces together if she hasn't already done so. 

We never said that he would never tell his kids. The reasoning behind the delay were several:

- he was worried that his ex would try to influence the kids to dislike me or being with him when I'm around before they had an opportunity to make up their own minds. He simply wanted to delay the process so that by the time she figured it out they would have had a few weekends with him in his new place, and have made up their own minds about the new situation. He always intended of telling them before the Holidays. 

- he was also worried that the ex would bring this up at their next court date in November. Obviously this doesn't really change anything, and she probably knows that. However, she seems to like monopolizing court time with trivial issues so that there isn't enough time to address the more important issues. 

[MomInHer40s]

24 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I think this man is an opportunist. 

I felt that in your last thread, and I am feeling it even more in this thread. The way he handles his divorce, the split of assets, the child support, it seems he's ready to drag this in court as long as he can to make some type of futile monetary gain. You said he's a high earner so he can afford what the court will tell him to pay. When his children are old enough to say they want to live with dad at 50% then he can get a financial break. 

A man that's ready to move on with this life will not want infinite court battles, he will pay his child support, he will be flexible with the separation of assets, he won't hide his new lady from his ex (I don't believe one second that his ex could cause him trouble if she learns he's in relationship, a court will not keep a father from seeing his children for trivial reasons like that, heck even prisoners have access to their children in our Country).

I certainly think that there is more here than meets the eye, and that the sleep situation is hiding something else. But I don't think that what you're saying is true. He would love to move on, but he refuses to accept that he doesn't get to be an equal parent in his kids' lives. And since the ex refuses to budge on that, there's really no choice. As a mother, I totally get that: I would also fight tooth and nail to get shared custody if those were my children! Who wants to miss their children's childhood to get shared access once they're "old enough". For all his flaws, I don't think this is one of them.

[MomInHer40s]

50 minutes ago, Elswyth said:

The more details emerge, the more bizarre it sounds. So now his kids don't know that you are a couple at all (!!!), and he asked you to evict your tenants for him to move in???

The question that still puzzles me is why none of this was a problem for you until he needed to sleep in a different bed.

I'll agree that it is an unusual situation! And not a situation that I thought I would end up in. The reality is that dating with young children is in itself complicated. That's just reality, so obviously unusual situations will arise.

The complexity of the situation definitely ads a layer of uncertainty, at least for me. Since nothing is very clear, and a lot of the current situation is presumably temporary leading to a future more stable sitaution, it does leave lots of room for confusion and uncertainty. Perhaps I'm over reacting and am just anxious because I feel the foundations of our relationship are not yet as solid as I would like them to be. Perhaps we are actually building a relationship on quick sand. I'm not sure! And every time I feel like he's not fully engaged it causes me anxiety. So him suddenly wanting to sleep in separate beds caused anxiety because as I said, the situation already held a lot of uncertainty and this distabilized me. If we had been common law with clear terms of engagement, I feel I would have reacted differently.

[Gaeta]

12 minutes ago, MomInHer40s said:

I certainly think that there is more here than meets the eye, and that the sleep situation is hiding something else. But I don't think that what you're saying is true. He would love to move on, but he refuses to accept that he doesn't get to be an equal parent in his kids' lives. And since the ex refuses to budge on that, there's really no choice. As a mother, I totally get that: I would also fight tooth and nail to get shared custody if those were my children! Who wants to miss their children's childhood to get shared access once they're "old enough". For all his flaws, I don't think this is one of them.

It's not like in the old days anymore. Any father with a stable job and an appropriate home can get 50% custody. No judge will decline that to a father. Question is if he's having difficulties obtaining that 50% than the ex must have tangible reasons to fight him on this. 

[MomInHer40s]

Just now, Gaeta said:

It's not like in the old days anymore. Any father with a stable job and an appropriate home can get 50% custody. No judge will decline that to a father. Question is if he's having difficulties obtaining that 50% than the ex must have tangible reasons to fight him on this. 

Agreed. And his lawyer is convinced that he will get 50% at the trial. However, no judge will give a court order saying the other parent gets 50% without trial. They want to look at all the arguments from both parties. All they can do is recommend that the parties agree to 50-50, and that has already been recommended by the judge, but his ex keeps fighting it unfortunately. It's quite unclear how she thinks she can win. His lawyer thinks that she doesn't stand a chance.

[Tullyseptember]

Mominher40s -  Your situation brings back a time in my life when I was with a Man who wanted our relationship "hidden" for a varitey of reasons.  It was a very painful time and I can relate to the anxiety you experience at times.  The things I did and the execuses I made to stay with this man were damaging to say the least.  I really hope you don't have the same situation because anything hidden never ends well.  I really wish you the best and I hope you at least entertain the different opinions/advice being given.  

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, MomInHer40s said:

That is not correct. I had tenants before he moved in

Ok perhaps the thread is misleading because you named it "Boyfriend wants to sleep in separate rooms", which gives the impression that you live as a household  family, when in fact he wants to sleep in his own separate rented apt. It's irrelevant what the market value of the apt. is, as that has nothing to do with his pulling away and wanting more space away from you.

[stillafool]

On 9/28/2022 at 4:23 PM, MomInHer40s said:

4) @stillafool I never said that we don't have sex anyomre. We do, except only on days that neither one of us has the kids, which is 3 days one week, and one day the other week. 

Really?  Your story has changed on quite a few things in this thread:

On 9/23/2022 at 9:58 PM, MomInHer40s said:

Well, long story there. He hated his apartment before. He chose it at a bad time of year and in a rush when him and his ex separated. It was supposed to be temporary but then he was living there for a few years. It was a nicely renovated basement apartment in a very trendy part of town, but small and a basement. So, when we met he started spending more and more time at my place finally in late the spring he would almost never sleep at his place anymore. He never said anything about the situation then. But the minute he moved in, he suddenly was looking for excuses to not sleep downstairs, until he finally said he wouldn't do it anymore. Our sex life was really great until that moment, and then just totally dried up the minute we stopped sleeping in the same bed. 

 

On 9/24/2022 at 11:29 AM, MomInHer40s said:

He proposed this morning that we try his proposed sleeping arrangment for 6 months and then reevaluate. He even proposed setting a date now for this reevaluation to happen. He wants me to give it an honest chance and be open to the possibility of it working out. And also proposed we don't discuss the new sleeping arrangement until our reevaluation date. That we can separately take notes about how it's going and how we feel about it in the interim, and that anything that still rings true in 6 months can then be brought up as a long term issue with the arrangement. I told him that I fear a loss of intimacy and connection; his take on it is that once we both get used to the situation, things should naturally rebalance. And if they don't, that should be brought up in 6 months as a major issue with the sleeping arrangment. I personally find 6 months a long time. If loss of intimacy and connection occurs for a 6-month period, things might get to the point that they are unsalvagable. He seems to disagree and doesn't think 6 months is such a long time. 

You never said anything about continuing to have sex except when you have your kids in this post^.  If you are still having sex why did you fear a loss of intimacy and connection?  You don't need to sleep in the same bed to maintain that.

[stillafool]

3 hours ago, MomInHer40s said:

Many addressed the fact that he hasn't told his kids that we are a couple. We actually put a lot of thought into how to introduce the kids and even had a session with a therapist to talk this through. 

Obviously kids must know. His youngest calls me "auntie" so clearly gets the sense that I'm more than just the downstairs tenant. And his ex knows for sure as well. He has told her that he is in a relationship. I'm sure she'll put the pieces together if she hasn't already done so. 

 

Here you said his ex knows you two are in a relationship  but earlier you were talking like it was best for her not to know because it would affect his custody trial.  Now you say she knows.  So if that's the case why shouldn't his kids know, like your kids do, that he's in a relationship with you and you two sleep in the same bed together?

7 hours ago, MomInHer40s said:

His kids don't know that we are a couple. We discussed this and think that for the time being it's best given his custody battle. No need to throw oil on the fire (with the ex). Also, he has better access to the kids now, but didn't have a lot of access for a long time. So his relationship with the kids needs rebuilding. He needs to focus on them when he has them. 

 

3 hours ago, MomInHer40s said:

- he was worried that his ex would try to influence the kids to dislike me or being with him when I'm around before they had an opportunity to make up their own minds. He simply wanted to delay the process so that by the time she figured it out they would have had a few weekends with him in his new place, and have made up their own minds about the new situation. He always intended of telling them before the Holidays. 

- he was also worried that the ex would bring this up at their next court date in November. Obviously this doesn't really change anything, and she probably knows that. However, she seems to like monopolizing court time with trivial issues so that there isn't enough time to address the more important issues. 

1- He's using that as an excuse not to tell his kids about you for some reason.  It has nothing to do with his ex as she already knows and I'm sure has already told them you are not their      "Auntie".  

2-Why would he be worried his ex would bring up that he's in a relationship with you at the court date in November when he's already informed her he is according to you?

This all makes no sense.  What is clear is you make up excuses to cover everything he does to somehow convince us or maybe yourself that this man is in love with you.

[poppyfields]

It sounds like this guy is doing some major scrambling and mental/emotional maneuvering (i.e. manipulating) so to not lose the comfy arrangement he's got going now - living in a beautiful place, cheap rent with a woman so into him, she'll believe anything he says, even when his actions say the exact opposite.

I dunno OP, it's always much easier for those not directly involved to see things more clearly. 

Your denial about what's happening, your telling yourself different stories so to not face the reality of it is pretty typical, I have done it myself.

As I said earlier, you will just have to learn this the hard way and from where I sit, it's not going to be pretty.

I'm sorry.