Boyfriend wants to sleep in separate rooms

[glows]

22 minutes ago, MomInHer40s said:

That is definitely a good point. I do think that we are compatible both in values and lifestyle. Timing is another issue. With his ongoing court battle, it does add a lot of pressure and stress to our relationship. He's been worried about his ex retaliating. Not that there's anything that she can do, but it could make negotiations more difficult, which delays the process, delays the outcome and costs more money. 

It keeps coming back to his ex, the source of frustration in the relationship. This initially was about sleeping arrangements. What happens if none of this ever ends? That there is always a fear of her retaliating, beyond any court dates or initial custody issues? I am puzzled why you’ve chosen this or continued to date him. I understand you care deeply for him and believe that you’re compatible but your concerns show you’re both quite different. You can’t lose a good man if you’re both in it for the right reasons. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by glows

[Wiseman2]

42 minutes ago, MomInHer40s said:

which delays the process, delays the outcome and costs more money. 

He is driving that. In the meantime, focus on yourself and your children and let him fight his own battles.

[BaileyB]

51 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

In the meantime, focus on yourself and your children and let him fight his own battles.

This.

This is exactly why most men don’t involve themselves in another serious relationship before their divorce is final, custody is decided, and everyone has settled into a new normal. It’s easy for the new person to become over involved - if only because he is telling you some of the things that he is dealing with in his divorce. 

It’s good that you continue to talk about things, but I’m a little concerned about his comment that he would rather lose sleep than lose the relationship. That, to me, shows the same kind of romanticized/magical thinking that you have both demonstrated by moving so quickly into a serious relationship/new living situation. While well intended, I don’t think it’s sustainable. Lack of sleep, for both of you, is going to make this already taught situation even more challenging. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by BaileyB

[Will am I]

He sounds like a work in progress. (but then, aren’t we all?  )

If there’s motivation and ability to adjust from both sides, there’s a future. Him seeking therapy is a very positive sign.

 

[Els]

22 hours ago, MomInHer40s said:

We actually had a long conversation about this yesterday evening. He said "if I'm going to loose you in the process of trying to get better sleep, the sleep is not worth it".

I don't understand how you can claim to love someone and yet continue to push them to choose between you and a literal health requirement. Have you suggested ANYthing at all to solve this catch-22 for him besides "well maybe you can sleep poorly just half the time instead of all the time"?

I don't agree with him moving in with you either without the divorce finalized, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

[MomInHer40s]

56 minutes ago, S2B said:

Do not put his name on YOUR assets (home in this case)!

that’s like handing over money to him.

if he didn’t pay half in when you bought the house - do not put him on the house.

I might have been unclear when I mentioned this in passing. This is not at all what we discussed. We agreed that once his divorce is finalized and their assets are split, that we discuss whether he moves in with me permanently, and then would use the money he got out of his house with the ex to invest an equal amount that I invested in my house. In this case, I would put him on the house title. If we cross that bridge, we would also create some co-habitation agreement. I think we both learned from our separations that it's better to have things be clear while you're still happy with each other. 

[MomInHer40s]

1 hour ago, S2B said:

its useful knowledge - now you know the way he handles things and can decided for yourself if this kind of ‘communication style/decision making’ works for you.

if it doesn’t - don’t stay with him.

 

I did mention to him that I greatly disliked the way he communicated this information with me. He acknowledged this and said he is willing to work on that. I guess time will tell if you does/will.

[BaileyB]

5 minutes ago, MomInHer40s said:

I think we both learned from our separations that it's better to have things be clear while you're still happy with each other. 

Absolutely. 

When you marry for for the first time, it is about love. The sad reality is, when we marry/enter into a serious relationship with a man for the second time - it’s about love but it’s also about money. 

Always best to discuss these things prior to the end of the relationship. It’s a little naive to think that he will just move out and you will settle things financially if/when this relationship ends. You can have a some idea of how he will act based on how he is responding in his current divorce, but you don’t really know until it happens. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by BaileyB

[MomInHer40s]

3 hours ago, Elswyth said:

I don't understand how you can claim to love someone and yet continue to push them to choose between you and a literal health requirement. Have you suggested ANYthing at all to solve this catch-22 for him besides "well maybe you can sleep poorly just half the time instead of all the time"?

I don't agree with him moving in with you either without the divorce finalized, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

I don't think that I was suggesting this at all. I was just upset about how this was communicated, and how I felt a sudden distance between us. It didn't feel good especially since it seemed to come out of nowhere. I would not have handled things in this manner at all. Instead I would have reassured him about how much I love him first, then addressed the difficult topic and my need, and engaged in a conversation before suggesting my solution. 

As for moving in with me, he does have his own apartment. We are not officially co-habitating. 

[Els]

9 hours ago, MomInHer40s said:

I don't think that I was suggesting this at all. I was just upset about how this was communicated, and how I felt a sudden distance between us. It didn't feel good especially since it seemed to come out of nowhere. I would not have handled things in this manner at all. Instead I would have reassured him about how much I love him first, then addressed the difficult topic and my need, and engaged in a conversation before suggesting my solution.

Okay, we have been through this, but let's try and move forward for a bit rather than rehashing the past. So your partner still believes (and you are letting him believe) that he must "choose" between you and sleep. What solutions have you suggested to this? What sleeping arrangements will you propose going forward?

[Wiseman2]

10 hours ago, MomInHer40s said:

 , he does have his own apartment. We are not officially co-habitating. 

Exactly. He's your tenant, so he doesn't have to sleep with you if he feels it's affecting his health. Even though you're dating, as a tenant, he has rights, including the right to privacy and peaceful enjoyment of the premises.

You'll have to look over the lease agreement and review the laws in your area. His rights as a tenant supercede your needs as a lover.

[stillafool]

What in the world is taking so long to get the custody agreement done.  Is she going to move out of their marital home with the kids, sell it and split the money?  I know you don't care if they divorce or not but is that still in the plans?  Frankly, a lot of this just doesn't make sense.

[MomInHer40s]

14 minutes ago, stillafool said:

What in the world is taking so long to get the custody agreement done.  Is she going to move out of their marital home with the kids, sell it and split the money?  I know you don't care if they divorce or not but is that still in the plans?  Frankly, a lot of this just doesn't make sense.

It's taking so long because they are going to trial. In Canada there's a law that you don't have shared custody unless you have 40%. If you don't have shared custody, the salary of both parents is not taken into account for the child support calculations. The person that has the kids less has to pay child support based on their salary alone. He's now at 38% and is paying considerable child support because he's a high income earner. However, if he gets to 40%, then she will actually have to pay him because she makes three times his income (she's a doctor). Hence the whole reason for the custody battle: she doesn't want to have to pay him anything. He personally doesn't care about getting money from her, and if there were a legal way that he could tell her that she can keep her money if she agrees to shared parenting, he would. That would actually probably cost less than going to trial. But so with the trial, just everything takes a long time. It starts with a series of court dates where no court order is presented but the judge essentially tries to be a mediator, make recommendations  and try to avoid trial for them. Generally judges tries to convince you not to go to trial beacuse it costs the government lots of money. It doesn't look like she'll agree to not go to trial. So if they do go to trial, that won't be before next fall probably. 

When they do end up divorcing, she will either have to buy him out or sell and move. She'll most likely just buy him out. They have already done a house appraisal.

[MomInHer40s]

6 hours ago, Elswyth said:

Okay, we have been through this, but let's try and move forward for a bit rather than rehashing the past. So your partner still believes (and you are letting him believe) that he must "choose" between you and sleep. What solutions have you suggested to this? What sleeping arrangements will you propose going forward?

I don't think that I ever asked him to choose between me and sleep. I also never told him that I want him to give up his sleep for my sake. I'm not going to force him into anything obviously. People are free to make their own choices. I am concerned that this will affect our relationship, and I do think that some adjustments on his part could make this work (for example, he goes to bed super late and gets up late as well. I go with his schedule (which is a compromise for me) on days I don't have my kids but go to bed quite a bit earlier when I have them. If he followed that same schedule, then it wouldn't really be an issue). But again, you can't force people into doing things they don't want to do, and that is certainly not in my nature anyway. 

[NuevoYorko]

49 minutes ago, MomInHer40s said:

I don't think that I ever asked him to choose between me and sleep. 

Someone upthread posted "his body his choice." 

You've complained several times about how he made the decision to sleep without you unilaterally.  

If he could not get sleep with you in the bed, then he needed to sleep solo.  That's all there is to it.   It would not be a situation for a "group" decision.  This is about him and his need for sleep.  Not a time for compromise.   

I do think that how he approached this with you would be important.  Did he help you understand that he loves you and this doesn't indicate any form of rejection?  That's important.  But needing to sleep in his own space?  His choice. 

The effect it's having on your intimacy needs to be addressed by both of you, but his taking care of his own need for sleep IS HIS BUSINESS.

Whether or not you can, or choose to deal with this is your side of the street.

 

[introverted1]

17 hours ago, MomInHer40s said:

As for moving in with me, he does have his own apartment. We are not officially co-habitating. 

Meh, this murkiness is not helpful.  You haven't fully committed to the idea of living together and you also don't have the independence you would have if your partner wasn't just upstairs (or downstairs).

1 hour ago, MomInHer40s said:

He personally doesn't care about getting money from her, and if there were a legal way that he could tell her that she can keep her money if she agrees to shared parenting, he would.

Why can't they agree to this in mediation? Surely there is a way to draft a custody/child support plan that the parties agree to and have it legally documented.

 

 

[stillafool]

On 9/23/2022 at 9:58 PM, MomInHer40s said:

So, when we met he started spending more and more time at my place finally in late the spring he would almost never sleep at his place anymore. He never said anything about the situation then. But the minute he moved in, he suddenly was looking for excuses to not sleep downstairs, until he finally said he wouldn't do it anymore. Our sex life was really great until that moment, and then just totally dried up the minute we stopped sleeping in the same bed. 

Don't you think it's odd that after he moved in with you, your kids being up at night suddenly became a problem when it wasn't before?  You yourself said here he was suddenly looking for excuses to not sleep downstairs (with you) and then proposed the 6 months of no sex and no talking about it until the end of that 6 month period?  Don't you find this odd OP?  Have you wondered was he kinda using you?  You said "and I know he loves me"; are you sure?  That's not how this is reading to me.

[Els]

1 hour ago, MomInHer40s said:

I do think that some adjustments on his part could make this work (for example, he goes to bed super late and gets up late as well. I go with his schedule (which is a compromise for me) on days I don't have my kids but go to bed quite a bit earlier when I have them. If he followed that same schedule, then it wouldn't really be an issue

Why wouldn't he get woken up if he went to bed earlier?

[MomInHer40s]

2 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Why can't they agree to this in mediation? Surely there is a way to draft a custody/child support plan that the parties agree to and have it legally documented.

Yes, that would be ideal! The problem with the way the law works in Canada is that even if you have a signed agreement where one party renounces spousal or child support, the parent that agreed to the sacrifice can at any point change their minds and ask for retroactive payment. I have an agreement with my ex where I renounced spousal support, but I could essentially take him to court any time. In this sense, it is not legally possible to reach such a compromise.

[MomInHer40s]

1 minute ago, Elswyth said:

Why wouldn't he get woken up if he went to bed earlier?

Not if he got up at a normal hour. Then he would just get up. The issue is that he often sleeps until 9 or so me and the kids getting up at 7:30 shortens his sleep. But if he went to bed with me at 11, then that wouldn't be an issue I think.

[MomInHer40s]

4 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Don't you think it's odd that after he moved in with you, your kids being up at night suddenly became a problem when it wasn't before?  You yourself said here he was suddenly looking for excuses to not sleep downstairs (with you) and then proposed the 6 months of no sex and no talking about it until the end of that 6 month period?  Don't you find this odd OP?  Have you wondered was he kinda using you?  You said "and I know he loves me"; are you sure?  That's not how this is reading to me.

He didn't say that he didn't want sex for 6 months. Sex is still happening, just not on the days that we sleep in separate beds. So, every other week, sex can only happen once a week. 

[introverted1]

3 minutes ago, MomInHer40s said:

Yes, that would be ideal! The problem with the way the law works in Canada is that even if you have a signed agreement where one party renounces spousal or child support, the parent that agreed to the sacrifice can at any point change their minds and ask for retroactive payment. I have an agreement with my ex where I renounced spousal support, but I could essentially take him to court any time. In this sense, it is not legally possible to reach such a compromise.

In the US, either party can go back into court and argue for a revised payment schedule at any time. Wouldn't that also be the case if they go to trial? 

I don't know all the legalities of the Canadian system but I question why he wouldn't want to try this approach if it would get him greater access to his kids and an end to the ongoing fight with his wife, which is presumably the goal.

[Els]

11 minutes ago, MomInHer40s said:

Not if he got up at a normal hour. Then he would just get up. The issue is that he often sleeps until 9 or so me and the kids getting up at 7:30 shortens his sleep. But if he went to bed with me at 11, then that wouldn't be an issue I think.

I'm confused, in your opening post you said "He said I'm welcome to sleep upstairs with him, but that he's not getting good sleep with my kids going to the bathroom at night". Do your kids only go to the bathroom at 7.30am?

What time does his work start and end?

[BaileyB]

34 minutes ago, MomInHer40s said:

So, every other week, sex can only happen once a week. 

Which is pretty much the norm for two people in their 40’s who are working and raising children. 

Sure, it’s a new relationship and there are always people of a similar age that will have a higher frequency, but I would suggest that this is a realistic expectation for many couples in similar circumstances. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

36 minutes ago, MomInHer40s said:

Not if he got up at a normal hour. Then he would just get up. The issue is that he often sleeps until 9 or so me and the kids getting up at 7:30 shortens his sleep. But if he went to bed with me at 11, then that wouldn't be an issue I think.

His sleep schedule is his sleep schedule. Lots of people have difficult getting to sleep, even without the stress that he is under. Or perhaps his sleep schedule has developed because he is actually sleep disordered? This is sometimes my partner’s schedule as well. He stays up hoping that it will help him get to sleep, but then he is often awake in the middle of the night/early morning. He’s tried everything he can think to try to help him fall asleep and stay asleep. When he can, he tries to fall back asleep and he often sleeps late. I wish it was different, but I try to understand because I am not the one who is having difficult sleeping. I have learned to let sleeping dogs lay, because they are in a better mood when they have slept!

Edited September 28, 2022 by BaileyB