Alvi Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) I don't know. I don't think I am unreasonable. I am fairly shy and quiet person and I work well with the men who take the initiative. Sort of take in charge person. I am not talking about aggressive or overly pushy type of guys but I surely appreciate when a guy takes a charge and arranges plans for a date or an outing. The problem is, that I am running into a lot of men on-line who expect me to arrange everything myself. A year or so ago one guy wanted me to phone a coffee place and to aske till what time they would be open. And not only that, he expected me to find out about the parking. I did all that but but it left a very bad taste in my mouth. He could've done all that by himself prior to our meeting. If it was just one guy, it would be one thing. But I am running more and more passive type of guys lately. For example, I've been talking to another guy and he asks me if I want to meet him sometimes. I say yes. So, here is a clue for him, an opening to ask me out right here and there, right? Or am I reading this wrong? But no, instead he continues with a chit chat after that. I told him that I went for a walk and he sends me 3-4 texts about how he wished that he was walking besides me. But he never asked me to go for a walk with him directly. And this morning, he sends me a texts asking me yet again if I want to meet him for a coffee or to go for a walk with him sometimes. And that if I am interested, I should let him know. But I have told him already last night that I am interested, lol. I am assuming that that he wants to meet but why can't he say, for example: "Are you free to meet Friday evening for a coffee? If you are, how about we meet at XYZ place at 7 pm?" Is it that difficult? I honestly, don't feel like continue talking to him anymore. I am interested in him but I don't want to arrange a date place and time for us to meet all by myself. Why can't he be more assertive? He can still be respectful, while being in charge. Perhaps, they are trying to be polite and respectful (and don't want to offend a woman) but it comes out like they are not that interested or unsure of themselves. And for sure, they expect a woman to arrange a date for them and to take them out. Forgive me, I am just rambling. Don't mean to offend anybody. But why are guys relying more and more on a woman to do all the heavy lifting? Why can't they be more assertive? Edited August 16, 2022 by Alvi 2
alphamale Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 If you want assertive you have to meet men IRL and not online. 3
Alpacalia Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) Just judge by your feelings. In the end agreeing to a first date doesn't make much sense if you're not feeling good about it. A man I went on a date with I felt was a little pushy, it made me uncomfortable initially, but the date went well, and we had a good time but both decided to go our separate ways. Edited August 16, 2022 by Alpacalia
Happy Lemming Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 I don't think you are being unreasonable... I do think what you are experiencing has to do with "on-line dating" and these men being lazy. These men think they are putting in some type of effort by tapping out a few lines of text on their phone. That isn't how you date (in my opinion). A date is a Day/Time/Place/Activity -- it really isn't that hard and with those four basic elements are the logistics that go with the date. Parking, hours of operations, tickets in advance (if necessary), reservations (if necessary) and so on and so forth. And yes it does require some effort on the guy's part, effort these guys don't seem to want to put in. There is a reason it is called "date planning". The guy should be the one presenting the "date plan" and inviting you out, and it should be fairly specific. That being said, when I did call up and ask a woman out with my date plan, I always had a "plan B" date already researched, so if she said "no" to my first idea, I was ready with a second idea (for a date). Now if she shot down my "plan B", at that point I would ask for suggestions so I could try again. And I agree with @alphamale Have you though about maybe trying to meeting men in "real life"?? 2 1
Gaeta Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 Before online dating men had to approach women live and take risks. It took a certain confidence and not all men were good at that as some men are more Beta (for lack of better word) and these more passive men often remained single for life. Now with the online dating we come across all those types of men! From the overly confident ones to the super passive ones. Now in paralleled to that, as we know women have grown more confident, independent, outspoken and some men depend on that as they lack courage to take the lead. So these passive men are out there in the dating world now, waiting for their 'Harriett Oleson' to lead the way. And on top of that online dating is like a trash can now. 6-7 years ago before my last relationship it was a challenge to filter through it but since I am back online this year I can affirm it is now a big trash can impossible to filter through. I have a male friend he's 59. He's online dating and women throw themselves at him. He doesn't need to play the gentleman (even if he is and he can), women are the ones making 1st invitation and often they will invite him to their home, cook for him, send him racy pictures etc. I listen to his stories and I scratch my head wondering how am I going to succeed when all the women my age out there offer themselves on a silver platter! Anyway Avi, I feel for you. Hang in there! Stay true to yourself. 2
Ami1uwant Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 If you are asking thrm to go out you shoukd take the lead. It’s about equality…right?
Els Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 Personally, I have never minded making the first move in arranging to meet. It's a whole other kettle of fish entirely if I make the first move and then they don't make a second, or a third... but if I do it sometimes and they do it sometimes it's all good IMO. I actually really like picking where to go. That being said, it's totally fine for you to want what you want! I think in this day and age it may be harder to find, especially if you want a guy who's otherwise progressive and egalitarian in other areas of the relationship. On the other hand, there ARE terrible dudes who are lazy AND chauvinistic (who basically want to be "equals" when it suits them), so it's never a guarantee. 1
Gaeta Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Alvi said: I And this morning, he sends me a texts asking me yet again if I want to meet him for a coffee or to go for a walk with him sometimes. And that if I am interested, I should let him know. He probably thinks he's being a gentleman by letting you pick a free spot in your schedule. Some men think it's too macho if they pick a time and place instead of letting the woman decide. I would have told him something like: Well dear, make your invitation I'll be happy to accept. 1
Els Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) Couldn't edit my post, but I wanted to mention that, as I personally tend to eschew some of the behaviours that are expected of women (e.g. makeup, high heels, bras...), I empathize with men who feel the same way about behaviours that are expected of men. And it's actually really important to me to be with a man who doesn't expect those "conventionally female" behaviours of me, so this filter works both ways for me. At the end of the day, I think the key thing for anyone is to decide what's really important to you and to hold out for it. The only partners it would exclude are the ones who aren't right for you anyway, so there's no real loss. Edited August 16, 2022 by Elswyth 3
Wiseman2 Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Alvi said: why can't he say, for example: "Are you free to meet Friday evening for a coffee? If you are, how about we meet at XYZ place at 7 pm?" Is it that difficult? I honestly, don't feel like continue talking to him anymore. With online dating many women are more comfortable picking a venue and area they are familiar with. This is not someone you're dating a while, it's a first meet. So it's up to you to have a few pubs, restaurants, coffeehouses, etc. You are comfortable with in Your area for you to suggest. It's much more selfish for them to pick a convenient place near them where you do the driving to a strange area at their convenience. In the other case he is not arranging or suggesting anything but "let me know" which sounds like lack of interest and someone to cut loose. Planning dates is quite different than arranging first meets with a complete stranger and safety, not "a take-charge guy", should be your main concern. Edited August 16, 2022 by Wiseman2 1
smackie9 Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) I think they are like that because they were arranging dates only to be flaked on/ditched, etc. So they are a bit wary is my take on this. They probably see more commitment to meet if the woman plans the date/meetup. Edited August 16, 2022 by smackie9 2
glows Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 I can't speak about this as I haven't had it happen personally. There has always been a degree of assertiveness even though I myself don't have a problem making a suggestion about when/where to meet. Move on to the next match if it's an app. Don't pay attention to these ones.
Wiseman2 Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 3 hours ago, Alvi said: If you are, how about we meet at XYZ place at 7 pm?" Is it that difficult? Gentlemen don't bark orders at women and particularly women they never met in this manner or presume they have nothing going on so are free on a specific date/time. A meeting is arranged at a mutually convenient time. Not orders like "meet me at X place on Y day at Z time". Be safe an plan something brief near you. Never let someone pick you up at your home or follow you home. "Online dating" is a misnomer. It should be "online of profiles of complete strangers available in your area who would like to meet someone". And the first meeting is not a date either. Dating happens after the first date when mutual interest is established. Then, once you at least know each other somewhat, the next date can be planned. 3
glows Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 That was a suggestion. It doesn't read like barking orders to me. "how about we meet" is asking whether it's ok or not to meet a time. She can reply whether it's fine with her or not. 1
Weezy1973 Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 I think different people have different expectations of online dating. I’m also of the view that the first meet isn’t really a date, so expecting men to act like it is will be disappointing. Not to say some men won’t be more assertive that way. Some will. I always was when I was online dating, but that was more because I wanted to meet quickly to see if we were a match. I wasn’t down with endless messaging / texting. But I’m Gen X and I suspect the younger set are fine with it. 1
Gaeta Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) Most men l met, and that's many, would suggest we meet and would ask when l am free, l would offer 2 free evenings. They'd pick one and then they would ask me where l'd like to go, and that was perfectly fine with me. Actually l prefer the gentleman ask me if there is a place l'd like to go as oppose to him picking a place as l'm the vulnerable one when meeting a stranger. Edited August 16, 2022 by Gaeta 1
glows Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 How many threads have there been like this? I suggest, OP, to pay no mind to the ones who don't seem attractive to you and start responding more to the men who interest you or who are more of your type. It's what you want or are looking for in a partner that matters. 2
Versacehottie Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 6 hours ago, Alvi said: A year or so ago one guy wanted me to phone a coffee place and to aske till what time they would be open. And not only that, he expected me to find out about the parking. I did all that but but it left a very bad taste in my mouth. He could've done all that by himself prior to our meeting. Ok this part is just ridiculous. I think it would do more for your self-esteem and potential dating burnout to have pulled the ripcord on that guy. He's showing you right up front how he's going to take you for granted. If you allow these kind of things, it will make it tougher to weather the uncertainty of dating that IS worth it. So allowing this has a chance to put a person into the bitter zone. So recognize these black and white, no go guys right away and just decide not to indulge it. Whatever investment you had had up to this point with him no way could be worth putting up with this--so recognize your worth and what you want from a partner... 6 hours ago, Alvi said: I honestly, don't feel like continue talking to him anymore. I am interested in him but I don't want to arrange a date place and time for us to meet all by myself. Why can't he be more assertive? He can still be respectful, while being in charge. Perhaps, they are trying to be polite and respectful (and don't want to offend a woman) but it comes out like they are not that interested or unsure of themselves. And for sure, they expect a woman to arrange a date for them and to take them out. so on this part ^^ it's more in a grey area, right? With the bolded, if this is how this makes you feel and you are getting a sense of his assertiveness or what he's willing to put into it, then just don't talk to him anymore. You have to recognize when it's causing you to burn out. That's a feeling that you might bring into whomever the next guy is--and he might be someone you really want to be your best for. If you start feeling down about dating, it will probably affect the way you are presenting yourself, so you have to protect yourself from this kind of stuff. 1) don't allow it. Decide you won't put up with it and unmatch the guy or stop conversing with him. Who wants mediocre? 2) Be real with yourself; if you've truly indicated you want to go and feel sure it was clear and he can't grab the ball and run with it, that's fine and then see number 1; if there's any doubt, try again in a different way. Sometimes guys do need a nudge. Maybe you just didn't nudge in a the right way or clear enough for him. But if it starts to drag you down where you aren't excited about him anymore, then see number 1. 3) Ask him out. Then doing the planning is your job and you will have less of a "feeling" about it. Doesn't mean he will do anything for date number two but if you are really interested, why not try this option. Often we don't resent stuff that we are "supposed to do", ie if you asked him, you plan and pay (gulp did I just say that??)..but yeah, you would do it more willingly that way and wouldn't waste your time as much, ie go out on date one which is a you-initiated thing and see if he can meet you where you are for date two. 4) I'm not sure it has to be this hard. I'd be super careful about applying it to men on the whole or dating life--that will just be a hurdle that sticks with YOU. If a guy isn't getting it, I'd pull back and mentally consider it back burner and move onto other guys. It makes little sense to apply your experience with one guy, or even a series of guys to men altogether--it will sap your dating energy. Also you can't change the world--if you are right. The best thing you can do is figure out your workaround this obstacle and it's as simple as moving on. I'm going to read the rest of the thread and see if there's anything else I can recommend. Good luck 1
chillii Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) Funny really, women becoming more this and that, from the sounds in the more pushier mentalities /countries, they're literally cutting of their nose to spite their face and teaching/showing men he can sit back and let her work. A lot of women will do anything now, l jaw drop at some of the stuff l read round here women doing . So it seems to all become a bit of a catch 22 and while more this or that you can see they've also just lost the fine art of attraction and dance. And many men/societies out there take it all as the new school signs, can't believe what some of the guys round here expect from a woman before he'll even breath at her , l often say to them wth are you waiting for a big sign on her forehead but it seems they literally expect one more and more now. And then there's all the games, rules they all seem to be making, all the trouble guys can get into now to with things thrown left and right, a lot of guys also seem to think it's not safe to do anything unless she literally jumps on him. Just a mix of impressions l get reading about in these forums and watching the circus/shytshow it seems to have become. Edited August 16, 2022 by chillii
basil67 Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 Times have changed and women who like to take charge of the direction and chances in their own lives are no longer expected to play coy. And men who don't want to be doing the leading are now able to be themselves in order to find a woman who matches him. There are certainly lids for each of these pots. @Alvi in your situation, I don't know why you're still talking to this guy. He's clearly a time waster, so don't go wasting your own time trying to figure out why he does and doesn't do things the way you would like it to be done. Just 'next' him without a second thought and keep working at it till a more proactive guy comes along. There is a lid for your pot too. And for what it's worth, no matter who's leading, the idea of "I'll ask you out but you do the legwork" is just weird. There is a reason this guy is available. Actually, there's probably a reason why many people who are long term on dating apps are single. 2
Alpacalia Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 8 hours ago, Alvi said: The problem is, that I am running into a lot of men on-line who expect me to arrange everything myself. A year or so ago one guy wanted me to phone a coffee place and to aske till what time they would be open. And not only that, he expected me to find out about the parking. I did all that but but it left a very bad taste in my mouth. He could've done all that by himself prior to our meeting. Being asked out becomes less exciting when you have to arrange your own date. Why would you want to date someone who makes you feel unimportant or disregarded? 3
divegrl Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 Idk. I meet these guys in real life too. Guys who text and text and text and text! They always say, let’s get together! But never offer a real plan. They miss me! But cannot meet for dinner. I cannot think of a single time when this type of situation turned out well. I played along and waited, I planned the date and they were always busy. So now I pass on all these situations. All these “I wish” or “I miss” or “I want” or “I dream” platitudes without action are a firm pass. Wishing you the best! 2
Els Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 17 hours ago, basil67 said: And for what it's worth, no matter who's leading, the idea of "I'll ask you out but you do the legwork" is just weird. There is a reason this guy is available. Agreed, that's just really bizarre. Like the thread some time ago re: the dude who tells her to open the door... how does that even work!??! 17 hours ago, chillii said: Funny really, women becoming more this and that, from the sounds in the more pushier mentalities /countries, they're literally cutting of their nose to spite their face and teaching/showing men he can sit back and let her work. A lot of women will do anything now, l jaw drop at some of the stuff l read round here women doing Oh, my, you're right! I mean, I have to spend 1 minute searching Google Maps to see where I want to go, and ask him if he'd like to go there... in exchange for not being expected to get all dolled up, him doing 50% of the household chores, a partner who's supportive of my career, and no orgasm gap! What a terrible tradeoff!! Bring back the "good ol' days", please... Each to their own, obviously, but IMO unless it's really important to the woman to be financially supported, the "traditional" arrangement has never benefited women.
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