Over before it began

[kleaners]

Just a little backstory for anyone new who comes across my post. I started chatting with someone from POF on Thursday and we hit it off immediately. We exchanged phone numbers and over the next few days we enjoyed some deep and intimate conversations. We were really connecting on a mental level. We tried a couple times to meet up, but things didn't work out. We finally had the opportunity to meet for lunch today and things did not go as expected.

I'm divorced for almost a year now, after a 13-year relationship and seven years of marriage. I remain on friendly terms with my ex and maintain a relationship with her sister, brother-in-law, and their three kids (boys 7 and 4 and girl 1-year-old) who have known me all their life as their uncle. When I mentioned this, and the fact I will be going on vacation with them, I could tell things had taken a turn. What I had thought was a two-hour lunch break was cut short. We weren't even out the restaurant door before she was saying goodbye. When I asked if she'd be opposed to a kiss goodbye, she said she would. Moments later, I receive a text saying she didn't want to see me again. I called just to confirm it was my revelation.

The last person I was seeing was totally understanding of the new family dynamic and was supportive of my involvement in the kids' lives, as well as their parents. I know the situation is a little weird, but I thought this new person would see virtue in the fact I continue to hang out with the kids, who love me dearly (the feeling is mutual). I'm not going to change for anyone. I'd be heartbroken not to have these kids in my life (not having any of my own at this time). But is this an obstacle I will continue to face as I continue to meet other people?

 

[salparadise]

6 hours ago, kleaners said:

But is this an obstacle I will continue to face as I continue to meet other people?

Yes, almost certainly. That's not to say you won't find someone who is willing to accept the situation... but the majority are going to want someone who is free of encumbrances and in order to focus on the new relationship.

People you date aren't interested in mixing it up with your ex-wife, her sister and kids, etc. Nor do they want to sit home alone and watch netflix while you go on vacation with them. They want YOU to take THEM on a vacation. And we haven't even gotten to the inevitable jealousy.

What surprises me is you seem to have just now considered the notion that this might be deemed unacceptable by most women. I'm a pretty open-minded man, and I absolutely wouldn't want to get involved with a woman who is entangled up to their eyeballs with exes and their families. Ugh!

You might as well put it in your profile and save yourself (and others) the trouble of spending all of that time on the phone and meeting up... and at least the ones you match with won't have to leave in the middle of the meetup [ ]

Edited August 2, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[BrinnM]

1 hour ago, kleaners said:

But is this an obstacle I will continue to face as I continue to meet other people?

Maybe not always right away, but definitely down the road at some point. If the woman is relatively open-minded, you might get lucky in the beginning, as she might not see this as an obstacle (or a threat) immediately, unlike your most recent date, but I can guarantee you that there will be a lot of conflict once you’re in a serious relationship a few months or years in (if it lasts that long), especially if you’re invited to family events (by people who aren’t even your family anymore) that involve your xW.
 

I’m not saying it has to be that way, as everybody’s different, and maybe if your new partner is invited to all these gatherings and vacations, everybody might be getting along just swimmingly, but chances are slim IMO. I’m a pretty non-jealous person but in a situation like that even the most tolerant & free-spirited girl will constantly be on high-ish alert, making sure that nobody is looking at her weird and/or talking behind her back. She’ll probably feel a little bit like an intruder in a world where everybody is close, while she’s the “new” woman, “replacing” a beloved family member aka your ex. Sounds uncomfortable even to me. 

Edited August 1, 2022 by BrinnM

[Versacehottie]

I actually think it's admirable. Perhaps though if you had it to do over, I would wait a bit longer--like several dates in at least where you describe that relationship. 

Right now someone who doesn't know you is heavily weighting their thoughts about relationships among ex-es and in laws with just their general rigid beliefs on that...they don't yet have enough information about you to understand how you would operate in such an arrangement and if it would work for them considering how you are. 

Guessing TBH, that there are some people who would be hard-headed about it regardless. Idk, I think they should consider that would mean that you are likely low-drama and able to move on and by default there would be less drama in their lives while dating you or if you ever broke up.  I would say, in fairness, that you would in the future probably have to consider your partners views and dial down "how much" time you spent with your ex&his family. Too much though to all figure out on first date or first handful. Sorry this happened to you. Just move on like you do

[poppyfields]

My take is her rejection had little (if anything) to do with your ex and her family.  

While not acceptable to most, that was simply a symptom of the larger issue - she wasn't attracted to you when she met you in person. 

Happens all the time.  On line you're vibing well, like each others pics, but in person, it's a whole different thing. 

You may even look the same as your pics, but your energy/vibe, your presence, your style just didn't appeal to her. She wasn't attracted to it, or to you, I'm sorry.

Had she been attracted to you, trust me she wouid have found a way to justify within herself being OK with your sitch. 

Women have accepted much MUCH worse things from men they're attracted to, namely men being married with families they go home to every night. 

Logic goes right out the window when women are attracted to a man. 

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by poppyfields

[IrinaM]

This would be a complete dealbreaker for me as well. She did a good job honoring her boundaries. I also think you're being unrealistic in your expectations on this matter.

I understand you love these children, but ultimately, your relationship to them is through your ex-wife. You might want to rethink the commitment to relationships that grew out of your prior marriage. These kids will be okay without you. Your ex will remarry, and the new guy will be their uncle.

I had an aunt that divorced when I was a kid. I really liked my uncle, he was definitely a "cool uncle," but I never saw him again after that. It would have been weird if he found ways to still spend time with us.

Divorce brings loss:( There's just no getting around that.

[ShyViolet]

I have to be honest, I think it's very weird that you maintain this relationship with your ex wife's sister and her kids.  Even more weird that you go on vacation with them.  If it makes you happy, then good for you.  But don't be surprised if this strange arrangement scares away potential dating partners and interferes with your dating life.  A lot of women would want nothing to do with a man who still has ties to his ex-wife like this.  Why do you need to stay involved with your ex wife's sister and her kids?  This sounds like a case of poor boundaries.

[kleaners]

7 hours ago, salparadise said:

Yes, almost certainly. That's not to say you won't find What surprises me is you seem to have just now considered the notion that this might be deemed unacceptable by most women.

The only other person I dated since the split was perfectly accepting of the situation and encouraged my involvement in the kids' lives. So how was I to know this could be a problem?

[basil67]

I would have thought it would be a no brainer.

Most women (or men if the tables were turned) would be understanding of your own kids from a previous relationship, but to be so close as to vacation with the ex's extended family will be a step too far for many. I would also suggest you prepare yourself for your ex finding a new man who isn't comfortable with your close involvement in her family and she chooses to prioritise his needs over yours (as she should)

Edited August 2, 2022 by basil67

[ExpatInItaly]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

to be so close as to vacation with the ex's extended family will be a step too far for many. 

This. 

You need to be prepared for this being an issue with others in the future. You don't need to change, but you need to adjust your expectations and understand that it will probably mean you miss out on future prospects. Just as you aren't prepared to change for a woman, you can't expect a woman to change her boudaries for you, either. 

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, kleaners said:

 We exchanged phone numbers and over the next few days we enjoyed some deep and intimate conversations. . We finally had the opportunity to meet for lunch today and things did not go as expected.

Unfortunately you need to meet much sooner and discontinue the deep intimate chatting before meeting.

This is why these things tank. You both build up things in your minds and create a false connection.

There's also way too much over sharing. Dating is not therapy. 

You're divorced less than a year and that combined with tagging along with the ex's family is going to be quite off-putting to some people.

Meet sooner. Skip the TMI. Focus on your date, getting to know each other.

Only briefly mention you're divorced and remember that going on and on about exes and their families no less, is going to relegate you to the "too much baggage, not ready to date" pile in a lot of women's minds.

[FMW]

It's possible she's had bad experiences in the past with someone she's involved still being attached to an ex's family.  For many people this isn't going to be something they want to deal with regardless of how attracted they are to you and how long it's been since you started dating.  It may not have been the only reason, just the deciding factor in her leaving. 

There was nothing wrong with her cutting the date short if that was the only reason.  It's good to know our acceptable boundaries and stick with them.  She wasn't someone who would be compatible with your life.  

You don't have to second guess your choices or change. Just accept that not everyone is going to want to go along for the ride.  

 

[introverted1]

I'm in the camp that this is a lot to expect a new person to accept.

That said, I'm also curious why you are quite so involved with your ex and her family?  I totally understand (and admire, even) staying in the lives of your niece and nephews, but going on vacation together, especially when your ex will be there, seems like a lot. I don't even know that many married people who travel with extended family on a regular basis (not withstanding the occasional summer house share).

Perhaps you could redraw the terms of your engagement with your ex's family.  Maybe you could establish a routine of taking the kids for dinner or an outing once every couple of weeks, while minimizing contact with the adults and foregoing vacations together.  I think it is possible to remain in the lives of your niece and nephews without being quite so intertwined into the overall family.  Is there a reason you don't want to do this?

Or you could wait to see if you meet a woman who will be fine with you having so much time committed to a family she is not part of.  I think it may be quite a long wait.

[Els]

Agreed with the others. It's not wrong of you to want to do this of course, but it's definitely something you need to be up-front about to a potential romantic partner. If you're meeting primarily through online dating, then you definitely want to have it on your profile so as not to waste time (both yours and theirs).

[Ami1uwant]

I don’t think your life from marriage has nothing to do with it.

 

i get you still have a relationship with niece/ nephew of your ex and her family.  You should not have tosscrafice that for a relationship.

[Ami1uwant]

7 hours ago, basil67 said:

I would have thought it would be a no brainer.

Most women (or men if the tables were turned) would be understanding of your own kids from a previous relationship, but to be so close as to vacation with the ex's extended family will be a step too far for many. I would also suggest you prepare yourself for your ex finding a new man who isn't comfortable with your close involvement in her family and she chooses to prioritise his needs over yours (as she should)

no

 

not if you were involved with the family closely for 15 years snd you weren’t the reason for marriage ending.

i don’t view this any different than if youare very good friends with a family and was the “ uncle” to their kids.

[Alvi]

16 hours ago, kleaners said:

three kids (boys 7 and 4 and girl 1-year-old) who have known me all their life as their uncle.

Let's be realistic here. All their life? If they were in their late teens, maybe they could come to love and care about you and it would make more sense for you to visit them. But at their ages? How much is a 1-year-old is going to miss you? Not that much. She is at the age where she is probably not even aware that you exist. Four-year-old is somewhat aware of you and maybe is somewhat attached to you, give or take. He is at that age, where he is going to forget about you completely if he doesn't see you in a few month or even less. A 7-year-old is more than likely busy with the school, friends and activities to be preoccupied much about some extended family. Hardly doubtful that he is going to cry himself to sleep at night if he doesn't see his aunties' ex husband. He may ask his parents once or twice abut you, but that's about it. So, this is more about you than about them. I think that you are not over your ex in the slightest, and visiting you exes' sister and her kids gives you sense of being a part of that family. Perhaps visiting her sister and her sister's kids allows you to stay in your exes orbit. Don't you think so? At some point, you have to be honest with yourself and admit that these people are no longer your family. It is going to happen when you are going to be ready to finally let your ex go for good. They are not your kids. As bad as it sounds to you now, they are not your kids.

16 hours ago, kleaners said:

I remain on friendly terms with my ex and maintain a relationship with her sister, brother-in-law

I would love to hear from your ex-sister-in-law on this. What is her thought process on this and why she allows her sister's ex to go on a vacation with her own family? Where is her loyalty to her sister? One thing is for her to allow occasionally for you to see her kids (and I am talking about very occasionally here, like once in a blue moon). She can stay cordial  and friendly with you but to take you on a vacation with them is a whole other thing. It s very strange, very unnatural. Unless she is trying to play a matchmaker and wants you and her sister to make up. I cannot come up with any other explanation.

[kleaners]

5 minutes ago, Alvi said:

Let's be realistic here. All their life? If they were in their late teens, maybe they could come to love and care about you and it would make more sense for you to visit them. But at their ages? How much is a 1-year-old is going to miss you? Not that much. She is at the age where she is probably not even aware that you exist. Four-year-old is somewhat aware of you and maybe is somewhat attached to you, give or take. He is at that age, where he is going to forget about you completely if he doesn't see you in a few month or even less. A 7-year-old is more than likely busy with the school, friends and activities to be preoccupied much about some extended family. Hardly doubtful that he is going to cry himself to sleep at night if he doesn't see his aunties' ex husband. He may ask his parents once or twice abut you, but that's about it. So, this is more about you than about them. I think that you are not over your ex in the slightest, and visiting you exes' sister and her kids gives you sense of being a part of that family. Perhaps visiting her sister and her sister's kids allows you to stay in your exes orbit. Don't you think so? At some point, you have to be honest with yourself and admit that these people are no longer your family. It is going to happen when you are going to be ready to finally let your ex go for good. They are not your kids. As bad as it sounds to you now, they are not your kids.

I would love to hear from your ex-sister-in-law on this. What is her thought process on this and why she allows her sister's ex to go on a vacation with her own family? Where is her loyalty to her sister? One thing is for her to allow occasionally for you to see her kids (and I am talking about very occasionally here, like once in a blue moon). She can stay cordial  and friendly with you but to take you on a vacation with them is a whole other thing. It s very strange, very unnatural. Unless she is trying to play a matchmaker and wants you and her sister to make up. I cannot come up with any other explanation.

You can't come up with an explanation because you have no idea the bond I've forged with the kids nor their parents. I certainly don't have any intention of getting back with my ex after she broke my heart. My ex brother- and sister-in-law have encourged me to continue being a part of their lives. My brother-in-law serves in the military and when he went overseas after the birth of each of his boys, their mother was left home alone to raise them, while also trying to balance a career. I stepped up and offered to go over once a week to hang out with the boys and help with whatever she might need around the house. Essentially I became a second father to them and the only male role model they had while their father was deployed (twice) for a year at a time. When he returned home, I continued the arrangement because his job as a police officer kept him away from home from the early afternoon to late at night, limiting his time with the kids. Sure, the one-year-old likely wouldn't miss me, but the boys certainly would. Heck, some weekends they'll call me to see if I can come over to play. I don't seem like someone they would soon forget. I went to a local carnival with them the other day. The four-year-old wanted to play one of the games of chance. When given the option of going with his father or me, he chose me.

As for vacations, we started family summer trips to the Jersey Shore four years ago. When plans were being made for this summer, they invited me. Again, because they know the boys had a good time hanging out with me, they asked if I wanted to go. My sister-in-law is already talking about plans for next year. I initiated nothing, but I welcome the invite. 

My ex and I never had kids, even though that was the original plan when we got married. My niece and nephews subsequently became very important to me and their parents see the value in continuing to have me in their lives.

[poppyfields]

OP, referencing my previous post, not sure why you're ruling out the possibility she just wasn't attracted to you when she met you in person.

Her desire to leave quickly. Her refusing a simple kiss.   Her rather blunt text the following day announcing she doesn't want to see you again. 

Sheesh!  

This suggests almost a repulsion which can happen when the reality of someone (you) doesn't match their image of that someone, before the meet.

Like I said, women have accepted much more egregious things when attracted.  Like a man being married, for example. 

Strong physical and sexual attraction is rarely logical.  

Jmo but if the sitch with your ex were a deal breaker, I doubt her exit would have been quite so dramatic and blatant.

The whole thing just sounds odd and off to me. And I think she used as the perfect excuse without hurting you by telling you she just wasn't attracted enough. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by poppyfields

[kleaners]

33 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

OP, referencing my previous post, not sure why you're ruling out the possibility she just wasn't attracted to you when she met you in person.

Her desire to leave quickly. Her refusing a simple kiss.   Her rather blunt text the following day announcing she doesn't want to see you again. 

Sheesh!  

This suggests almost a repulsion which can happen when the reality of someone (you) doesn't match their image of that someone, before the meet.

Like I said, women have accepted much more egregious things when attracted.  Like a man being married, for example. 

Strong physical and sexual attraction is rarely logical.  

Jmo but if the sitch with your ex were a deal breaker, I doubt her exit would have been quite so dramatic and blatant.

The whole thing just sounds odd and off to me. And I think she used as the perfect excuse without hurting you by telling you she just wasn't attracted enough. 

Because following the text I called her and specifically asked if it was because of my relationship with my ex's family and she indicated as such. I suppose what you say is possible and she just used it as an excuse (she did give me a hard time about it when I was discussing the situation), but it's not like she didn't have any idea what I looked like. And we had talked enough on the phone to give her a sense of my personality.

Edited August 2, 2022 by kleaners

[poppyfields]

53 minutes ago, kleaners said:

Because following the text I called her and specifically asked if it was because of my relationship with my ex's family and she indicated as such. I suppose what you say is possible and she just used it as an excuse (she did give me a hard time about it when I was discussing the situation), but it's not like she didn't have any idea what I looked like. And we had talked enough on the phone to give her a sense of my personality.

Pls read my previous post about vibe and energy which can only be felt in person.  Despite looking same as pics.

People reject others all the time for this after meeting in person. 

The sitch with your ex and kids whom you are extremely close with, just gave her proper justification. 

In any event, it doesn't matter.  You were not her cup of tea, the reasons don't even matter. 

I'm sorry it didn't work out and if the sitch with your ex and her sister and kids is that important to you, then remain true to that. 

To me, it's not that much different from a man remaining close with his ex wife and their kids. 

The right woman, a woman who is attracted to you, will at least make an attempt to understand.  That's how attraction works in my experience.

If it becomes too much, she will eventually leave. 

But the first meet?  Something else was going on there, over and above your ex and the kids. 

Just my take. 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by poppyfields

[kleaners]

2 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Pls read my previous post about vibe and energy which can only be felt in person.  Despite looking same as pics.

People reject others all the time for this after meeting in person.  The sitch with ex just gave her proper justification. 

In any event, it doesn't matter.  You were not her cup of tea, the reasons don't even matter. 

I'm sorry it didn't work out and if the sitch with your ex and her sister and kids is that important to you, then remain true to that. 

To me, it's not that much different from a man remaining close with his ex wife and their kids. 

The right woman, a woman who is attracted to you, will at least make an attempt to understand.

If it becomes too much, she will eventually leave. 

But the first meet?  Something else was going on there, over and above your ex and the kids. 

Just my take. 

Perhaps she just didn't want to reveal the real truth. Nothing I can do about it, but move on. It still stings.

 

 

[poppyfields]

2 minutes ago, kleaners said:

Perhaps she just didn't want to reveal the real truth. Nothing I can do about it, but move on. It still stings.

I think that's best.  And sure it stings, but life goes on, thankfully it happened during the first meet and not weeks or months later, when you're more attached. 

All the best moving forward. 

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, kleaners said:

As for vacations, we started family summer trips to the Jersey Shore four years ago. When plans were being made for this summer, they invited me. Again, because they know the boys had a good time hanging out with me, they asked if I wanted to go. My sister-in-law is already talking about plans for next year. I initiated nothing, but I welcome the invite. 

Again, you are welcome to navigate this as you choose. 

But understand that many women will see this level of involvement as a dealbreaker. Then it won't come as a surprise when they opt not to continue dating you. 

[Calmandfocused]

When I was married to my exH I was very close to all his family- specifically his parents, his siblings and the children of the family. 
 

As soon as I publicly declared to them I was divorcing my ex husband it all changed. I lost all of them. 

I knew it would happen and I didn’t want it to happen but I knew there could be no other way. Even if I was 100% in the right and my ex 100% in the wrong it would be unrealistic and unfair to me to expect they would remain in my life post divorce. It couldn’t happen and I had to accept that. 
 

I see issues with your situation on all levels and you need to accept that you cannot continue the way you are if you are to move on successfully with someone else. It’s too weird! 
 

I’m gobsmacked that that your ex wife accepts the relationship you have with her sister but that’s a separate issue entirely. 
 

As for your dates who cares whether they accept it or not?  They are strangers but equally are entitled to reject you for any reason whatsoever. 
 

What you should be doing instead is focusing your attention on whether this situation is healthy for you. And I confidently say that it isn’t. 
 

personally I don’t think you’ve adjusted to your divorced status and you need to give yourself more time. 
 

Loss is very painful. But we all need to go through it to move on. 
 

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Calmandfocused