dragonwalker Posted July 26, 2022 Posted July 26, 2022 (edited) First some quick background, I'm male, 34, have had a very unsuccessful dating history to the point where I think this may be the first 2nd date I've had in 7+ years although the amount of dates I've been in that time has probably been pretty low maybe at best 1-2 times a year exclusively from online. This year I felt more motivated to redouble efforts and after a string of more failures I was feeling a bit down. A woman I had seen online but had not looked into sent me a wink not long ago, I reached out and we chatted briefly than agreed to meet for coffee. The impression I had from our first meeting was that I think she's a lot like me from things like her general personality and even mannerisms. As usually happens we talked about various topics and some personal details. I think the talk went fine but there wasn't some amazing spark (I'm not expecting one). I asked her out to another meeting (I almost always do unless things went very bad) and for once in 7 years someone agreed! I had suggested maybe something outdoorsy but living near LA it will be hot and she suggested lunch which I agreed. Now my main issue is although it's nice to talk about general things and some personal details I feel like I have difficulty determining when I should move the conversation beyond the surface and into something that could tell me more about a person on a deeper level. I'm not sure if I'm overthinking this but in the few instances I've gone past the first date and sometimes in the first date I sense that the woman I'm talking to might be bored or uninterested in the conversation. Sometimes it even happens to me. I've tried to think about these instances and I think one thing that I've thought of is a lot of these interactions I have seem to be missing an emotional element. A lot of the conversation often seems to be information exchange rather than more intuitive. I've tried to alleviate this by finding moments where I can be funny or maybe tell a story and be more expressive. Ironically I do like to talk and I usually get along well with people and strangers but I think I'm much better at making friendships rather than speaking romantically. I have bad game, womp womp. I'm not looking for one liners and cure alls but do people here have other suggestions for maybe what to observe or do during a conversation to maybe drive more of the other feelings out? Hopefully I'm making sense. I'm curious for people here what often comes up in conversation during a second date? One thing I've thought of delving a bit into is certain aspects about lifestyle so that both of us know where we stand on that but I'm wary of going into things like religion and politics. I know those are very tricky subjects but often seem to be important to many people. I have a strong feeling she may share similar politics to me but I mention religion because I'm an atheist and although I don't care what a partner believes in religiously it seems to feature prominently for many people at least online and seems to be an important aspect of many people's lives. She wrote very little online about herself regardless and I got no hint of where she stood on that but would it be wise to broach the subject in some tactful way when we meet again? I mean if she thinks I'm going to hell, it probably won't work. Are there other conversation topics that may be socially acceptable to talk about now that could really make a good determination if we are a good fit? Edited September 11, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
glows Posted July 26, 2022 Posted July 26, 2022 (edited) You could ask her what she does in her free time. People usually have a lot to say on that and once they see that you're interested will continue to introduce you more into their world and what interests them. From there you're gauging what a person more or less lives for or what they're about. It is intuitive, as you say. Go with the flow. Edited July 26, 2022 by glows
Ami1uwant Posted July 26, 2022 Posted July 26, 2022 I don’t know general topics you talked about on date 1 and other convos when was date 1? do you know if you agree politically? You coukd talk about current e rents since last meet. you can talk about their hobbies, interest? Do they take vacations or travel to places to work? Where did they go. Us there any overlapping destinations? 1
smackie9 Posted July 26, 2022 Posted July 26, 2022 just be yourself....ask her stuff about her, like does she travel, talk about pets. I know you want to build a connection but you can't force it...it happens naturally. If it falls flat, then you two just don't have the chemistry. 1
Author dragonwalker Posted July 26, 2022 Author Posted July 26, 2022 The first date was this past Saturday. Thanks yes we talked about most of what people have suggested. We met and talked for about 1.5 hours. btw, If the 2nd date involves a meal that we mutually agree to before hand what is the thing to do these days? Pay for it all? Go Dutch? 1
JEG88 Posted July 26, 2022 Posted July 26, 2022 1 hour ago, dragonwalker said: The first date was this past Saturday. Thanks yes we talked about most of what people have suggested. We met and talked for about 1.5 hours. btw, If the 2nd date involves a meal that we mutually agree to before hand what is the thing to do these days? Pay for it all? Go Dutch? Since you were the one who asked her out for a second date (if I understood your OP correctly) I think you should pay for the meal or whatever the activity is. If you continue dating, it "should" become more mutual where she would pay if she suggests something, for example. 2
Author dragonwalker Posted July 26, 2022 Author Posted July 26, 2022 30 minutes ago, JEG88 said: Since you were the one who asked her out for a second date (if I understood your OP correctly) I think you should pay for the meal or whatever the activity is. If you continue dating, it "should" become more mutual where she would pay if she suggests something, for example. Right, good point.
Ami1uwant Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 3 hours ago, dragonwalker said: The first date was this past Saturday. Thanks yes we talked about most of what people have suggested. We met and talked for about 1.5 hours. btw, If the 2nd date involves a meal that we mutually agree to before hand what is the thing to do these days? Pay for it all? Go Dutch? What broad topic areas did you talk about
Author dragonwalker Posted July 27, 2022 Author Posted July 27, 2022 33 minutes ago, Ami1uwant said: What broad topic areas did you talk about We each talked about what we like to do for hobbies, where we both grew up, our jobs, educational background, general family background, ethnic background, travel, future work plans.
Ami1uwant Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 12 hours ago, dragonwalker said: We each talked about what we like to do for hobbies, where we both grew up, our jobs, educational background, general family background, ethnic background, travel, future work plans. What in common do you have? 1
glows Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 You’re off to a good start. Try not to rush anything. Deeper conversations happen spontaneously on their own when someone feels open and wants to talk. Keep enjoying your dates and when you’re planning them ask for her input. You’re building rapport and trust slowly.
smackie9 Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 You ask you pay. That shows you are being a gentleman. Make sure you put your best foot forward, and show up looking and smelling good.
Author dragonwalker Posted July 27, 2022 Author Posted July 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Ami1uwant said: What in common do you have? Good question, we have similar ethnic and family backgrounds, we grew up very close to each other (as children), we don't live that far from each other now, she plays piano and cello as a hobby even as an adult which although I don't play I had recently started to learn a new instrument myself but I'm not otherwise musically inclined but something we shared in common. I really respect how she pivoted from a career earlier in her life where she thought she might go on to teach piano to becoming a MD doctor now. I was frankly surprised that as a doctor she reached out to me as on this site a person's profession is listed next to their picture. I don't do badly for myself and managed to do well financially from a few very good decisions in the last few years but I'm sure no where near as financially "successful" as her. I've always worked in an office job and my earnings in a big city are probably about average (I am working on this though with graduate school). I'm truly not sure how important this is to many women nowadays and I'd like to simply think it's my own ego that is creating the belief of needing to be the man and providing greater income however I do think there is some truth to this in reality. Something else that stuck out to me was that she seemed to be a pretty modest person just from what she wore and how she talked. She wasn't a quiet person by any means and definitely not a person that always needs to be outdoors a lot or claims to always need to be out and about. Similar to me I'm more of an indoors person and occasionally go out but it doesn't factor prominently in my day to day. I think her energy level was very similar to mine. She seems intelligent and interested in me (asking plenty of her own questions).
Author dragonwalker Posted July 27, 2022 Author Posted July 27, 2022 1 hour ago, glows said: You’re off to a good start. Try not to rush anything. Deeper conversations happen spontaneously on their own when someone feels open and wants to talk. Keep enjoying your dates and when you’re planning them ask for her input. You’re building rapport and trust slowly. What's interesting is right after she agreed to meet again I asked about her schedule and unlike others before her she gave a very specific day and time. I got back to her suggesting perhaps we should think of a place and activity and asked for any suggestions and she got back with something fitting what I suggested and even went ahead on her own initiative bought the tickets to this arboretum. I offered to venmo and she said it was her turn now. I was flattered as something like that had not ever occurred. Even more so because we had just made the plans and she said she would make the reservation and with how flaky people are nowadays she thought it was ok to go ahead and buy them and I checked and they were $15 each. I am the type of person to never flake but I don't think she would have known that. Again, I might be reading into this to much and maybe it's not in reality a big deal but I really felt quite amazed she would do that after the most recent strong of rejections and ghosting. It was a good feeling after decades of setbacks lol. Anyway, we also planned lunch to be something decided upon day of when we get there and ofcourse I will pay for that. 1
Author dragonwalker Posted July 27, 2022 Author Posted July 27, 2022 1 hour ago, smackie9 said: You ask you pay. That shows you are being a gentleman. Make sure you put your best foot forward, and show up looking and smelling good. Yes. I do believe I make a good effort at looking nice and clean. I may actually have to buy some new clothes soon if things continue as I have only a few options for date type options. Never really mattered if I just always go on 1 with someone.
Versacehottie Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, dragonwalker said: Good question, we have similar ethnic and family backgrounds, we grew up very close to each other (as children), we don't live that far from each other now, she plays piano and cello as a hobby even as an adult which although I don't play I had recently started to learn a new instrument myself but I'm not otherwise musically inclined but something we shared in common. I really respect how she pivoted from a career earlier in her life where she thought she might go on to teach piano to becoming a MD doctor now. I was frankly surprised that as a doctor she reached out to me as on this site a person's profession is listed next to their picture. I don't do badly for myself and managed to do well financially from a few very good decisions in the last few years but I'm sure no where near as financially "successful" as her. I've always worked in an office job and my earnings in a big city are probably about average (I am working on this though with graduate school). I'm truly not sure how important this is to many women nowadays and I'd like to simply think it's my own ego that is creating the belief of needing to be the man and providing greater income however I do think there is some truth to this in reality. Something else that stuck out to me was that she seemed to be a pretty modest person just from what she wore and how she talked. She wasn't a quiet person by any means and definitely not a person that always needs to be outdoors a lot or claims to always need to be out and about. Similar to me I'm more of an indoors person and occasionally go out but it doesn't factor prominently in my day to day. I think her energy level was very similar to mine. She seems intelligent and interested in me (asking plenty of her own questions). What I see from this, if I were in her shoes as a doctor or highly educated person, is that while you might not make the same as she does or your career might not carry the same prestige, the fact that you are into progressing and betting yourself with the graduate school, would make it about equal in my mind. She values higher education (more than likely!) and usually people want someone they consider an "equal" (well let's say women do). I think it's good that you speak about this..for one, it sounds like you are proud of it and it's part of your own personal trajectory and for two it's likely to be impressive to her since she probably appreciates people who better themselves in this way due to her own choices. it's less about the financial possibilities for you but as a reflection of your life choices--which as an outsider, at least with regard to career, would seem to align. FYI I would also add that some doctors would seemingly make bank but that isn't always the case--like if they have huge student loans or the financial structure of their organization or if she is building her practice/career, she might re-invest her excess right back into her business. So you never know. Good luck on your date. Edited July 27, 2022 by Versacehottie
glows Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 1 hour ago, dragonwalker said: What's interesting is right after she agreed to meet again I asked about her schedule and unlike others before her she gave a very specific day and time. I got back to her suggesting perhaps we should think of a place and activity and asked for any suggestions and she got back with something fitting what I suggested and even went ahead on her own initiative bought the tickets to this arboretum. I offered to venmo and she said it was her turn now. I was flattered as something like that had not ever occurred. Even more so because we had just made the plans and she said she would make the reservation and with how flaky people are nowadays she thought it was ok to go ahead and buy them and I checked and they were $15 each. I am the type of person to never flake but I don't think she would have known that. Again, I might be reading into this to much and maybe it's not in reality a big deal but I really felt quite amazed she would do that after the most recent strong of rejections and ghosting. It was a good feeling after decades of setbacks lol. Anyway, we also planned lunch to be something decided upon day of when we get there and ofcourse I will pay for that. Lovely. Baby steps and see how it goes. She sounds like what I would do too and there are people/women who do take initiative and plan dates. Have fun. Remember that you're dating to see what the other person is like. Nothing is set in stone and you're still getting to know one another.
Ami1uwant Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 3 hours ago, dragonwalker said: Good question, we have similar ethnic and family backgrounds, we grew up very close to each other (as children), we don't live that far from each other now, she plays piano and cello as a hobby even as an adult which although I don't play I had recently started to learn a new instrument myself but I'm not otherwise musically inclined but something we shared in common. I really respect how she pivoted from a career earlier in her life where she thought she might go on to teach piano to becoming a MD doctor now. I was frankly surprised that as a doctor she reached out to me as on this site a person's profession is listed next to their picture. I don't do badly for myself and managed to do well financially from a few very good decisions in the last few years but I'm sure no where near as financially "successful" as her. I've always worked in an office job and my earnings in a big city are probably about average (I am working on this though with graduate school). I'm truly not sure how important this is to many women nowadays and I'd like to simply think it's my own ego that is creating the belief of needing to be the man and providing greater income however I do think there is some truth to this in reality. Something else that stuck out to me was that she seemed to be a pretty modest person just from what she wore and how she talked. She wasn't a quiet person by any means and definitely not a person that always needs to be outdoors a lot or claims to always need to be out and about. Similar to me I'm more of an indoors person and occasionally go out but it doesn't factor prominently in my day to day. I think her energy level was very similar to mine. She seems intelligent and interested in me (asking plenty of her own questions). where in gopher being a doctor is she? it’s usually 4 yr med school, 6 yr residency and other training work before being a full doctor. from my experience knowing and dating doctors/ lawyers/ professors…. 1. thry are going to have longer work days and bringing work home with them on nights/weekends. With di tires thry coukd have on call duties on some weekends and nights. with women…because of tradition roles…some might expect the man to make a respectable salary relative to hers. If she is in specialty areas it will be hard to top. from my experience in general..some women expect man to make as much, some expect them to be in a high education career even though income is the same. There is not easy way to measure this.
Author dragonwalker Posted July 27, 2022 Author Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Ami1uwant said: where in gopher being a doctor is she? it’s usually 4 yr med school, 6 yr residency and other training work before being a full doctor. from my experience knowing and dating doctors/ lawyers/ professors…. 1. thry are going to have longer work days and bringing work home with them on nights/weekends. With di tires thry coukd have on call duties on some weekends and nights. with women…because of tradition roles…some might expect the man to make a respectable salary relative to hers. If she is in specialty areas it will be hard to top. from my experience in general..some women expect man to make as much, some expect them to be in a high education career even though income is the same. There is not easy way to measure this. Ok, so not exactly sure what you are asking in the first part but assume there is a typo. I had previously asked if she had finished her residency and she said yes 2 years ago which suggests she started medical school right after college. She works at a small clinic which she said she strongly prefers because of the basically 9-5 scheduling. She does not have a specialty though. Just from an income perspective I'm sure I fall well below her income. Assets wise I probably have the upper hand but anyway since my correct employment was listed next to my profile picture I'm hoping she would have checked if it were important enough and yes she did reach out to me first. My plan though with graduate school is specifically to increase income so there is that and I think the prospects are strong in that regard but she will almost certainly have the higher credentials in the end, which is ok with me. Edited July 27, 2022 by dragonwalker
Ami1uwant Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 30 minutes ago, dragonwalker said: Ok, so not exactly sure what you are asking in the first part but assume there is a typo. I had previously asked if she had finished her residency and she said yes 2 years ago which suggests she started medical school right after college. She works at a small clinic which she said she strongly prefers because of the basically 9-5 scheduling. She does not have a specialty though. Just from an income perspective I'm sure I fall well below her income. Assets wise I probably have the upper hand but anyway since my correct employment was listed next to my profile picture I'm hoping she would have checked if it were important enough and yes she did reach out to me first. My plan though with graduate school is specifically to increase income so there is that and I think the prospects are strong in that regard but she will almost certainly have the higher credentials in the end, which is ok with me. primary/ family care make the lowest income. it’s still decent income. She’s likely going to be very strained the next few years paying off med school. right now disposable income won’t be all that high. 1
Author dragonwalker Posted July 31, 2022 Author Posted July 31, 2022 I went on the second date and have a few questions. We agreed to meet at a local arboretum and then have food afterward. I started off with a hug. Up till this point I had not initiated any physical contact. She returned the hug lightly but it didn’t seem awkward. We spent the next 1.5 hours walking and talking. I think the conversation went well and we both talked fairly equally throughout and I think we got along well. When we finished walking the whole area, we went off to get some food. The food went fine and then we walked in the mall to get something to drink and we continued to walk and talk for another hour. Toward the end of our time, I thought it was a good time to conclude said I had a good time, went for another hug and we parted. I think it may been a little awkward as there was no lead up to it and I think I rushed through it a bit. We spent 4 hours together. Some thoughts I have, I was trying to gauge how comfortable she was with me and it was hard for me to tell but I think she was fairly comfortable with me. From these 2 dates she’s given me this very strong impression that she’s a traditional and very modest person from what she told me about herself, what she wears, and her actions, even more so than myself and I consider myself pretty traditional and modest. I tried to look for a hint that she was more comfortable doing something more physical but I’m quite certain she gave none. However, seeing as we are both appear to be modest people when it comes to affection do I need to take a chance and do something more direct? I don’t want to shock her in a bad way but I feel some move to initiate more intimacy is warranted or am I off base and waiting and taking it very slow more prudent? This reminds of a situation years ago when I went on a series of dates with another woman (who was not nearly as modest) who similarly didn’t show much physical interest and it was quite limited until about our 6th date when I finally took initiative after a very clear signal and did something sexual. I thought at the time it went ok however at the time when I tried to go all the way she said no and I didn’t push it but then the very next week in that instance that women told me she didn’t want to meet again stating at that time vaguely from what I can tell that “she tried” but essentially wasn’t attracted to me. Ofcourse every situation is different but I have this nagging concern something similar might be happening except this woman is clearly more modest than the other woman from years ago so not sure how to proceed. Finally, I would still like to continue meeting her and a bit unsure how I should now go about it as I’ve initiated both previous dates. Should I reach out for the 3rd time, wait for her, just say something in the intermin? Our only real communication is on the dates and she doesn’t really seem to be that chatty by text.
smackie9 Posted July 31, 2022 Posted July 31, 2022 If she keeps saying yes to dates then just go with it...ask her out for dinner this time. Remember you two are still strangers and getting to know one another, nothing wrong with being a little reserved. She might be the type that's going to take things slow and make sure your intentions are honourable. Plenty of women have started thread here worrying about this sort of thing. 1
glows Posted July 31, 2022 Posted July 31, 2022 13 minutes ago, dragonwalker said: Finally, I would still like to continue meeting her and a bit unsure how I should now go about it as I’ve initiated both previous dates. Should I reach out for the 3rd time, wait for her, just say something in the intermin? Our only real communication is on the dates and she doesn’t really seem to be that chatty by text. Don’t rush anything physical. It’ll happen in its own time. Keep asking her out on dates and if she accepts and keeps seeing you, it means she’s interested. Go with the flow in texts. If she doesn’t reciprocate but agrees to meet it means she’s still interested in seeing you. I’m sensing you’re trying to rush intimacy whether emotionally or physically. No need to rush anything. 1
Ami1uwant Posted July 31, 2022 Posted July 31, 2022 Her past relationship history matters here. Some are naturally slow. Some don’t remember how to ride a bike. holding hands to me is a trigger that says kissing is ok to do.
Author dragonwalker Posted July 31, 2022 Author Posted July 31, 2022 19 minutes ago, glows said: Don’t rush anything physical. It’ll happen in its own time. Keep asking her out on dates and if she accepts and keeps seeing you, it means she’s interested. Go with the flow in texts. If she doesn’t reciprocate but agrees to meet it means she’s still interested in seeing you. I’m sensing you’re trying to rush intimacy whether emotionally or physically. No need to rush anything. Yes I know that I am placing pressure on myself for the intimacy partly because I think of an insecurity stemming from gaining some personal validation, concern that my poor initiative is hindering my my chance of success and plain old desire.
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