Husbands long list of mistakes. What do I do

[Miss confused 40]

Hi folks! I'm hoping someone can help before I lose my mind.

I'll try keep this short. I'm with my husband 13 years, married for over 9 of those years.

9 weeks after we married my husband went out with his best friend for a few drinks. He didn't get home till 5 in the morning, which isn't like him, usually home relatively early. So I asked where he was, he said he was at his friend's house. But my gut told me otherwise, so I checked his phone when he was sleeping to find 2 missed calls and 2 messages from his friend all at approx 1.30am. These messages were begging him to go home and to remind him he's married.

I felt sick when I read the messages from his friend I rang his friend the next morning, who told me my husband didn't go back to his house, he in fact went back to his ex girlfriend (home from the states on holiday) sisters house. Admitted he was all over her all night and he begged him to not get in the taxi with her, but my husband didn't listen. So armed with this I went up to my husband, woke him gently and asked him how his night was. He said oh great, and again lied saying he was at his friend's house. When I told him I know the truth, his face fell. He said nothing happened, that they were just catching up. I kicked him out for a week, I needed space.

He came back crying, apologising for going to the house with her and continued to deny anything had happened. Said they just talked. But eventually admitted he found her attractive and wanted something to happen. Also admitted to flirting all night, dancing seductively and behaving like a single man. I let him back as I wanted to make our new marriage work.
It took me quite a long time to be able to build my trust in him again, but was getting it back slowly.

Then he took over as acting manager in work. Developed a strangely close relationship with another manager in a neighbouring city. We'll call her J. Firstly, he used to say she was a pain in the behind, then suddenly she was amazing, so helpful, funny etc. She would visit his store too frequently, and each time he would talk about her a lot. Then he stopped talking about J abruptly. I noticed around this time that he was active on his work phone WhatsApp at crazy times in the morning, 7 for example, he doesn't start work rill 8.30. Asked him why he was active outside of work hours, he said he was checking messages from the day before. Seems odd to me as its something he had never done.

So then I decided to keep an eye on his personal phone, and low and behold there were a lot of personal messages from this colleague. Then one selfie of her asking him to join her for a drink as she was in town for the night. He replied back saying sorry I can't with loads of crying emojis. Then not long after he went to another city for a work training day, stayed overnight and was asked to go for dinner and drinks with this female colleague on their own, despite dozens of colleagues being at the event also. I called him not knowing he was out having drinks with her, he sounded funny so I asked can you not talk, to which he replied oh its only me and her having a drink, I asked who was going for dinner to which he nervously said just the 2 of us. I was furious. He had many colleagues there who he'd known for many years, yet he chose to spend time alone with this woman. It didn't sit well with me. So when he got home I sat him down and asked did he think it was appropriate, and to look at it from my angle. He said he went to bed early and she went to meet with other colleagues. So I asked him to show me her messages inviting him out (all on his coded work phone). He reluctantly opened their chat, lots of conversations between them, barely any work related, and many flirtatious. Then, the last whatsapp was at 10.30 from her saying 'welllllllll???????'. I questioned this, he said she needed his room number for the bill for dinner. I asked why he didn't reply, he said he called her to give it to her. Again I found this very strange. I told him it made me incredibly uncomfortable having such a relationship with a female colleague and I wasn't comfortable with it. He flew off the handle and we argued a lot about it. He simmered and then apologised stating that it was inappropriate and he did over step our boundaries.

This dented my already battered trust in him. He had lied to me before so I felt he could easily do it again.

And now. He was away on a football weekend with his brothers in England for the weekend. I was about to whatspp him early, about 6,to say safe flight, when I noticed he was on line. His brothers weren't, and he was off and on what'sapp.

So, let's go back approx 2 months. Our 3 year old daughter was going through pics on his phone, then says daddy who's that? It was a selfie of his assistant manager (FYI, mid twenties, stunning looking). Immediately I asked why has he a selfie of her on his phone? He panicked and said oh look she was working late and sent it messing to me, so he opened up their WhatsApp conversations and showed me. On closer inspection, she has been messaging him about stuff outside of work, the soccer team he supports etc. Calls him 'bossman', repeatedly tells him what a wonderful boss he is, and silly stuff. Anyway, I told him it's inappropriate to send selfies to a manager, he agreed, and I laughed it off. However, I took her number from his phone, don't know why to be honest, but I did. So anyway, when I realised he was off and on WhatsApp to someone, I decided to check her status. Low and behold she was off and on at the same times. Looked to me like they were messaging each other. I berated myself and put it to the back of my mind. He has in the past few months been speaking more highly of her, yet when he first hired her he said she was annoying, sloppy at her work and immature. Now she's the bees knees.

So he got home after 4 days, our daughter was thrilled and asked to see pics of the game, he gave her the phone and she was happy looking through the match day pics. She was tapping away, and then went into his deleted pics, and again those dreaded words of mammy who's the girl? It was the selfie she had sent about 2 months ago. So I quickly checked his WhatsApp, but he had deleted his conversation with her.

I asked him why on match day did he delete this one pic, he said he deleted loads, but that's a blatant lie as only one was logged on the phone that say. Plus he would have had to scroll for ages to get the pic up as he receives a lot of WhatsApp pics. So I asked again, he choked, didn't have an answer. So I asked him to pull his conversation with her, he got tongue tied at this stage, and said ya we can check. He acted all surprised when the conversation wasn't there, it was infuriating to watch as he's a terrible actor. So I asked why while he was on a boys wkend did he feel the need to delete his conversation with her. He said he didn't, he must have done it before. I pointed out that on his WhatsApp, when you go to delete a conversation, its automatically set to delete media also. He started getting verbally abusive, os I left with my daughter for the evening.

When I put her to bed, I calmly asked him did he want to talk about it so we could clear it up air. He immediately went on the defensive, started saying I'm accusing him of having an affair. I never once said I anyway like that, simply I wanted an explanation. Then he said ya I deleted the conversation last wk as I was sick of seeing her every time I opened WhatsApp. Bullshit i reckon. Why I asked was there a sudden issue seeing her on it, he said he didn't want her on his personal phone. Yet they had exchanged many messages over a long period of time. So why suddenly is he not OK with it and deleting everything? So I asked again about the picture, he said he deleted it as he knew I didn't like it being on his phone. I queried why he left it approx 2 months to delete it, and why did it even enter his mind while away with the lads. Again he got verbally abusive and I could not talk to him as he was being nasty and insulting me. He even told me if I wanted to leave him then I could just go. I have a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach that he's hiding something. Maybe they were messaging and something inappropriate was said and he panicked and deleted everything. But if that's the case why can't he just tell me. 

Then, up next we have another female colleague. Has worked in the same position as my husband for years, but in a different part of the country. Never really spoke of her before.....but then about 6 months ago her name starts to pop up in conversations. My husband then took over an interim role within the company, and this coworker moved to the company headquarters around the same time. They were tasked with a project, mainly my husbands job to complete, but with some input from his coworker. Cue the constant name drops, literally this woman seemed to enter our conversations a lot. Of course my senses were on alert. Then, my husband had a work thing and had to stay over night. He rang me the next morning to say he would just pop into headquarters for an hour and hit the long road home then. But he ended up staying until after lunch. Rang me while driving home and said he stayed to have lunch with a male coworker. I just knew he was lying to me. When he got home he left his work phone on the counter and for once it wasn't locked, so while he showered I couldn't help but look. Turns out he had lunch with his female coworker that day. And also turns out they spoke regularly, calls lasting about 25 minutes on average. They work in completely different departments so the need for such frequent communication blows my mind. Also, turns out from looking at his call log that a couple of days before, she rang him whilst I was on the phone to him, and I remember him saying oh it's my boss i have to take this and rushed me off the phone, but it was her. He rushed me off the phone to talk with her. I was absolutely fuming. But left it a day to calm down and speak with him. 

He initially kept up the lie that he met a m coworker, but when I told him I saw her messages, his face dropped. Said he lied to protect me, because of things that happened in the past he didn't want to worry me, and have me thinking something was going on. I couldn't believe my ears. So the blames on me for his lies. 

I don't know their level of contact as I don't know his work phone code to unlock it, but he never mentions her anymore. 

What do I do?? There's a long list of stuff, and reading it makes me feel like such a fool. I'm so lost 

Edited July 2, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language/paragraphs

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Miss confused 40 said:

 married for over 9 of those years.9 weeks after we married 

Sorry this is happening. Do you have children? How old is your husband?

Sadly you have plenty of evidence of compulsive lying and serial cheating.

Now the question is to stay and hope it stops or to put an end to this disrespect, pain and loneliness.

Two things you can do to help you decide. Go to a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health. Franky discuss your husband's chronic philandering and ask for STD testing. Ask for a referral to a qualified therapist for ongoing support. Do not tell your husband.

Next, consult an attorney for information about your options in the event of divorce. Do not tell your husband or threaten divorce.

Armed with accurate information and support you may be able to make a decision. Unfortunately each time you forgive and forgot cheating, it's condoning it.

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, Miss confused 40 said:

What do I do??

File for divorce. 

He's never been committed to your marriage. How many more signs do you need that you should not be married to him anymore? 

[giotto]

9 weeks after you get married he does that? Kick him out.

[BaileyB]

5 hours ago, Miss confused 40 said:

What do I do??

I would file for divorce. I don’t stay in a relationship with a man who lies to me about the fact that he is is pursuing other women. 

[Will am I]

13 years. That’s what’s behind you.

The big question is: how many more years into the future would you want to live like this?

[BrinnM]

1 hour ago, Will am I said:

13 years. That’s what’s behind you.

The big question is: how many more years into the future would you want to live like this?

Exactly. With all the snooping and stuff. Must be really exhausting. It sounds exhausting!
 

There’s zero trust, and I’m not blaming OP for the lack of trust at all, but it has gotten so bad it seems, that she just can’t stop spying. It sounds like there’s an obsessive-compulsive component to it which isn’t healthy. This almost sounds like a parent-child relationship to me, or a relationship between a cop/prison guard  and a criminal.
 

And after 13 years, things seem to be getting worse, not better. 
He is still doing what he shouldn’t be doing, trying to get away with whatever he can get away with, and OP is always a step behind trying to find out new “crimes”. And there’s just no end in sight. It goes on and on and on…… and I think this perpetual pattern of him overstepping boundaries and her finding out about his lies has manifested itself somehow, not only in the relationship itself, but also within OP’s personality, to an extent where she just can’t stop. 
And it seems he just does not care. He doesn’t even protect his cell phone when he showers. It’s right there, with no pin, free for her to look through & find even more “evidence”. I mean - what’s the end game here? 

He shows zero respect. And OP, you’re clearly not happy. You can’t go on being constantly preoccupied with what your husband might be doing when he’s not at home. It’s draining. It will take every little ounce of energy away from you until you’re completely broken. I don’t even recommend marriage counseling - I would just leave the guy. And if you’re being honest - you probably only know 40% of what he’s been really up to, the tip of the iceberg so to speak. There’s no reason to go on with this. You’ll never have honesty & trust in this marriage. 

[S2B]

The marriage has been over for a long long time. He hasn’t acted married.

make it official and divorce him. That way you have the potential to ditch his drama filled life.

he’s not capable of being faithful. You are in for a long and unhappy life if you stay.

[mark clemson]

8 hours ago, Miss confused 40 said:

What do I do??

While I don't recommend that people divorce (as a matter of principle) I think it's just stating a fact to say that some folks have a strong tendency to want to stay married, once married, despite substantial perennial issues that would probably drive many folks away. Some wayward spouses will stay in a marriage despite claiming (and I suspect often actually feeling) significant unhappiness. And the same seems to apply to some betrayed spouses as well.

If you're looking for reasons to leave - well, it seems you have them.

If you're looking for reasons to stay - well, I strongly suspect those are coming from within. Perhaps you have strong views on the "sanctity" of marriage?  Feel like "you'll be seen as a failure" if you divorce, or you simply don't feel very emotionally secure alone?

I'm not saying that to be mean - but I think that you ultimately can't control another person. Sometimes spouses do weird, disruptive stuff - drastically change religions, move to other continents, become obsessed with bizarre hobbies, etc, etc. Someone who really, really wants to cheat will cheat and even if you monitor them nearly constantly (and who wants to do that) they'll probably figure out a way.

What you can control is you. Except that's only partially true - people have self-control issues all the time. So maybe you CAN'T control your strong desire to "make this work"?

But it does very much sound like "MAKING" it work, to your own emotional detriment, is what you'd be doing.

So perhaps, IF you are looking to "find the strength" to leave (which is a real issue for some people), if it's feasible, you could consider therapy to help you process the unconscious expectations or fears (or whatever it may be) that's keeping you in this. Part of this may be running on cognitive dissonance/sunken costs fallacy, but I strongly suspect that's only part of the picture.

If you're determined to "stay for the kids" or similar - well, you are an adult and can make your own decisions. But, unfortunately, I don't believe your going to be able to stop your husband from doing more of this when opportunities arise. Some people want a "stable base" to be able to "go out and have occasional adventures from" (including romantic trysts in some cases) and it seems you may have married one of those.

Edited July 2, 2022 by mark clemson

[heartwhole2]

I know that it's crazy making to have someone lying, and then when you can finally prove a lie, they say, OK, but I'm telling the truth about THIS . . .

I'm of the personal opinion that it doesn't really matter how far these relationships went/what he's lying about because he doesn't consider honesty a necessity in your relationship. That's clearly not going to change without a big catalyst (such as you suggesting separation/divorce if things don't change).

A person with nothing to hide, hides nothing. I'm sure that he will swear up and down these were all just lunches and dinners and drinks but does that make it any better (if we could even believe that for a second)? So don't expect to get the truth from him.

Decide what you want going forward. If that's an honest and open relationship, you're going to have to be willing to lose the relationship to reinvent it. You can't force your partner to change; you can only have boundaries that you enforce.

[Will am I]

 

@Miss confused 40

Just remember one thing: this situation has 0% to do with you and 100% with your husband. The long history of infidelity, repeating pattern and various affair partners prove that beyond any doubt.

 

Maybe everyhing is accelerating now that you have opened up and you are reading all these perspectives. Maybe your whole world is turning to jello. Just hang on to that one thought. It’s not you, it’s him.

[Lotsgoingon]

I agree that all your checking and confirming is a waste of time. You're just running yourself in circles and you're avoiding the hard question.

It's not your job to ask all these questions--you already KNOW the answer--that he's lying and running around with some other woman. You know that. So quit all the questions to him and answer this question for yourself:

When are you going to move out?! Or when are you going to kick him out?

This guy is a compulsive cheater and liar. What other information do you need to take action? 

[stillafool]

You'll constantly be checking and policing your husband.  He's not going to stop and he's sick of having to explain himself to you that is why he said you were free to leave.  You can't make someone love you and be faithful to you.  If you're not going to divorce him just stop checking so you can have some peace of mind.

[Alvi]

I think that you have several choices here:

1. Understand that this guy is never going to be faithful to you. You did nothing wrong here. You have tried but there is nothing that you can do that is going to make him to be faithful to you. This is just the way he is. Get a good divorce attorney and move on. You don't need to waste another 13 or more years on this marriage. End result is  going to be the same. He is going to continue having affairs on and off and you are constantly going to worry about him being with his next flavor of the month.
2. Do nothing. Close your eyes to his philandering ways and don't look for any proof of the infidelity. There is no evidence that he is going to leave you, at least not for now. For the future, who knows? Adopt a don't ask, don't tell policy. Don't go looking for any proof of his infidelity, don't confront him, don't cause any fights. Understand that this is the ways that he is and learn to live with it.  But be sure to always use a protection when you are being intimate with him. Not something that I would recommend, but hey, it works for some people.
3. Open up your marriage. Negotiate your limits and how far this can go. That way the two of you can stay married and he  is allowed to see other women. Of course, you can date other men too.  This is probably not something that is going to work out in a long run but at least everything could be out in the open.
4. Find a witch to put a voodoo spell on him. That way he can stop looking at the other women and be totally faithful to you. OK, bad idea. I am kidding about that one.

Seriously, the best choice for you is to divorce him.