Ex upsetting our son, telling me to give his fiancee 'a seat at the table'

[jakrbbt]

My ex and I divorced when our son was 18 months old.  Son is now nine.  We have shared legal custody.  Parenting plan is for 50-50 parenting time, but I have our son more like 60% (sometimes more, never as low as 50) and I pay for his medical insurance, school and school things, et c.  I really like to keep things informal wherever possible, knowing most small issues will blow over, but it's not always possible.  

Ex moved into his girlfriend's house a few years ago and started frequently having her care for our son while ex was out late playing poker; riding his motorcycle; taking long naps.  I would not give this a thought if son was happy with it-- but my son has been complaining a lot to me about it (completely unprompted).  Ex also tells me that I have to work out custodial decisions-- like school-- with his fiancee and not with him (or not with just him).  He says that to "leave her out" of the custodial decisions hurts her feelings, and that "she deserves a seat at the table."  I have told him that of course I have no issue at all with him talking to her about whatever he wants, and geting her input, and allowing her to be with our son alone assuming she's safe (no indication that she isn't).  But that he and I are the parents and that when it comes to school, religion, medical decisions, I will work those out with him.  And I don't rudely ignore her or anything-- I listen if she has input and I always say something appreciative.  I say nice things about her to son.

The thing is that ex and I actually agree on the custodial parental decisions.  But his fiancee sometimes does not.  When that happens, fiancee tries to assert herself, and is hurt and "cries" if my ex and I work out the custodial decision between us and without having her at a meeting or similar.  Ex has told me to basically treat her as the other custodial parent.

As an example, last year ex's fiancee decided that she thinks son should be held back in school-- because his handwriting was very poor.  No teacher or evaluator thought he shoudl be held back.  Ex and I had had him evaluated based on a vision issue; long story short, he needs vision support but not special ed or IEP and certainly not any grade repeat.  Ex did not agree with his fiancee--- but he felt he needed to pretend he did, and to act on it.  so he called me and said we'd need to do something. He and I both agreed child shoujld not be held back.  but ex was unwilling to just do nothing-- he said his fiancee would be very offended.  In fact, ex was offended that I was even asking him to just go with the (informed) decision ex and I, the parents, already wanted.  Ex told me to have son re-evaluated and say it was for the sole purpose of grade placement decision-- jsut so that ex would not feel "put in the middle" with his fiancee.  He asked me not to tell fiancee that he, ex, agreed with me.  He needed her to know that we were not making a parenting decision together, against fiancee's "wishes."  That whole thing eroded my trust in ex and in our coparenting.   

Lately, my son has been extremely distraught becaue ex and fiancee keep talking about their wedding.  They thew a party last week and kicked son (who, agian, is 9)  of the house for looking "sad" and he face timed me at 9:00 at night from the backyard, crying, huge ropes of snot coming out of his nose, complaining about the wedding.  I heard him ask his dad if he could get some water.  His dad said, "You can go in the house and get some."  My son said, "[dad's fiancee] doesn't want me in the house."  His dad:  "You can go inside if you don't sit around being sad."  It was heartbreaking.  Son also is getting creeped out by how (he says) his dad's fiancee makes "every decision" in the house "including what we're all supposed to think and including everything we do and what happens to me."  I just listen, and try to support him without saying anything negative about them.

My son complains that his dad has been saying:  "We're going to be a family now" and "[fiancee] is going to be part of your family now" and "You have to fully accept her as your stepmom and the adult I trust to take care of you."  When son cries and says, "She's not my mom," his dad says, "You need to fully accept her as your stepmom,  she will be your stepmom  and part of your family now."  This terrifies my son.  He thinks everything will change with the wedding.  So I told him, "Your daddy and I will always be your parents.  The wedding does not change any of that.  I am still your mom.  I'm sure that Daddy and [fiancee] just want you to share their happinees.  No one wants to change the fact that you still have a mommy and a daddy."

Well, apparently my son repeated that to his dad, and his dad said, "Your mom thinks differently, and she is not in this house.  [Fiancee] is your new stepmom and a part of your family now." and some other things my son couldn't rember verbatim.  As my son put it, "Daddy basically said, without saying it, that [fiancee] will be my mom now and I don't want that!!!!"  He has also asked to be with me 100 % of the time-- and has become extremely nervous on the day he has to go to his dad's.  I just tell him that I'm alwasy here for him, and that I know he needs both parents and it's good to have his daddy time even when he's having a hard time sometimes, and I'm alwasy ready to listen to him.  

But he is terrified and really upset.  I just don't know how to best support him through this.  I've asked ex to talk with son along with me, but gotten no response. 

I don't want to undermine my son's dad to him, or make son even more uncomfortable.  But I wish his dad would step up with his own parenting time, and would also let son come to his own terms wtih the marriage and relationship with fiancee.  I also wish fiancee would stop trying to assert herself as a "parent" in the legal sense.  (I have no problem at all with her being close to my son, having a bond wiht him, loving him-- the more loving grownups, the better.  I just want to keep the custodial decisions with ex and me.)  

I'm thinking of asking for a first right of refusal-- so that my ex, instead of leaving son with fiancee, will offer for me to take him if it's going to be all day or overnight.  I actually think ex would have agreed to that some time  ago-- but now, with teh marriage stuff, ex seems to by trying to force everyone into somehow "recognizing" his fiancee as a "parent."  I might have to battle for first right of refusal in court, if it comes to it-- and it's best to avoid all the cost and stress and animosity if possible.  

I am afraid that my ex will stop agreeing for me to have my son on extra nights when otherwise son would be with fiancee.  Again, if son was comfortable with fiancee, then great.  But if ex is blowing off his parenting time and also trying to basically transfer his legal custody to the fiancee, then I'd rather son be with me or dad (or dad plus fiancee) as much as possible.  

My plan now is to just keep offering to take my son one night early if my ex has things to do.  That way, he doesn't have to leave son with fiancee.  What do people think?  Should I formally (or even informally) ask for first right of refusal?

Edited June 29, 2022 by jakrbbt

[Wiseman2]

58 minutes ago, jakrbbt said:

My plan now is to just keep offering to take my son one night early if my ex has things to do.  That way, he doesn't have to leave son with fiancee.  

Sorry this is happening. Legally only you and your son's father have any legal rights or responsibilities regarding your son. A Partner/stepparent never has rights or a say in a child's life. Let your child's father and his GF figure there issues out and do not discuss his relationship. You can petition the courts for more custody. This ad hoc custody is not stable for your child.

Make sure he is with you if his father is negligent and out drinking, playing cards or partying. Your child should be enjoying dad-time, not fobbed off for the GF to babysit.  That is unfair to your child. File for full custody with a visitation schedule. Increase your son's child support payments, when you petition for full custody. Accommodate your child, not your ex, do what's best for your child, not your ex and his GF.

[basil67]

Ugh, this is horrible for both you and your son.  Your ex and his fiancee are completely out of line.  If you really want her to back off, you're going to have to dig your heels in.

I understand that your ex wants you to view his fiancee as a custodial parent, but the fact is, she doesn't legally get a say and you don't have to go along with it if you don't want to.  I'd be having a private conversation with your ex (or with her present if she really insists), stating while you respect his fiancee, as a non biological parent, she does not get a say in decisions about your son.  And while you will continue being warm to her, you will not hesitate to remind her that she has no parental rights if she oversteps your boundaries.   If this doesn't work, you may have to look at mediation to address this issue.

I have no experience with custody issues, but I do think that you, your ex and your son would be wise to get into some family counselling together, with a counsellor who specialises in divorce/custody issues and with them taking the role of advocate for your son.   The main issue which needs to be heard is that your son is there to visit his father, and as such, his father should be present.   

[jakrbbt]

21 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I do think that you, your ex and your son would be wise to get into some family counselling together,

I would really like this.  I have had a lot of trouble even finding a counselor, everyone's booked.  I'll keep trying!  

Ex might not even be willing to talk with son and me together about the upcoming marriage.  (Which he does not have to, I know.)  I asked in a pretty neutral way, two days ago, no response.  So I'm guessing he will refuse counseling together.  

Here's how I asked him if he'd be willing to talk to son with me:  "I'm really happy for you and [fiancee] about the wedding.  [Son] seems to be having a hard time with it.  I'd like to support you in helping him through this change.  Would you be willing to talk with him about it together with me?  I'd like to help him see that all the important things from before that were good will be staying the same-- and the new things that are coming will be a bonus.  I think if we talk to him together, that would help a lot.  Give me a call and we can talk about the details."

I mean, I didn't say this part, but right now son is talking to both Daddy and me separately, at our houses, about this.  And repeating (or trying to) what each other is saying to him.  And there are misunderstandings et c. . . . Son shouldn't be put in the middle, we should just have a conversation with him together.  

Ex has not responded to my email at all.  

A lawyer friend tells me that I get a say in how new partners are addressed (whether the child may call new spouse "stepmom," "mom" or equivalent; or must use only surname).  To me, that doesn't really solve the real issue.  I mean, if my son wanted to call ex's fiancee "Mommy- [her name]" and was happy that way, then fine.  To me, the issue is them forcing this idea of "You are GOING to accept your NEW family with your official NEW stepmom and we are all going to be A FAMILY NOW and how DARE you be sad about it"-- plus ex's fiancee wanting to be a "parent"-- plus ex wanting me to "recognize" fiancee as a parent.  

So, yes, I really like your idea of family counseling.

And next time ex or fiancee tells me to treat fiancee as parent, I'll have that conversation you mention.  I really like that suggestion too.  Thank you.

 

[SingFish]

It's infuriating @jakrbbt If your ex and his partner had kept good boundaries and just left things to evolve naturally your son would be fine with her. It takes time for a child to accept a new family member and adjust family dynamics. You are right for you and his dad to talk directly in future, it's not possible for a 9 year old to be a healthy intermediary. 

Sounds like you are going to need to be the mature one in this though, the calm one for your son. 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

13 hours ago, jakrbbt said:

Should I formally (or even informally) ask for first right of refusal?

I would ask for it formally, in court. 

Your ex is being unrepsonsive and uncooperative. Time to being in some formal, legally-recognized mediation. 

[Wiseman2]

9 hours ago, jakrbbt said:

. So I'm guessing he will refuse counseling together.  

There's no need for that. Your son does not have to appease your ex's GF and neither do you.

Petition the court for full custody with scheduled structured  visitation. You need to take control of the situation, not worry about meetings with your ex and his GF.

Your son should come first. It's that simple.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Wiseman2

[jakrbbt]

My ex called me yesterday evening while he was with our son (a "Daddy day").  First, he apologized for speeding with son in the front seat of the car.  (I had called him on that in the same email.  Because son had told me that on road trips, ex was speeding at over 100 MPH and son LOVEd it; ex says that's an exaggeration, but still said he'd stop speeding.)  In front of son, ex assured me that he'd have a conversation wiht son about driving safely, and not speeding.  He pledged to stop speeding.  As we talked, I could hear son in the background, sanding the boat he and his dad are working on.  

Then I told ex that I'd like us to talk to son together sometime soon, about the upcoming marriage,.  Ex agreed, but then son interrupted by asking to talk to me.  Ex put me on speaker and, to make a long story short, we all ended up talking about it.  Ex was there for a lot of it, then seemed to walk off while son and I talked-- me still on speaker.  (My son is very verbal.  We talked for an hour.)

Toward the end of the call, ex and fiancee were in the background.  I said to son, "Your daddy and I are still your parents, and that does not change."  Ex then seemed to say, "Except for [fiancee]."  Son started protesting.  I-- on speaker-- said, "I think your Daddy was saying that he agrees we are still your parents and that that will not change.  Right [Ex]?"  And ex said, "That's right."  It was good.  I just like that we're able to talk.  I know I can't push a perspective on anyone, but knowing my son can talk to both parents about this-- together-- is very good.

AND:  Ex agreed it would be good for the three of us to talk to a childhood/ family therapist together to get through this.  !!!   That was probably the biggest benefit of last night's conversation. 

So I am really appreciative, basil67, for the suggestion of family therapy.   

Available therapists are hard to find right now, but I will make it happen.  

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by jakrbbt

[basil67]

That's a terrific update @jakrbbt .  I think you'll all get through this

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, jakrbbt said:

 speeding with son in the front seat of the car.  (I had called him on that in the same email.  Because son had told me that on road trips, ex was speeding at over 100 MPH 

If you would like more control over your son's safety and well-being, you'll have to petition for full custody. Unfortunately when your son is with his father, his father can do whatever he wants and doesn't have to take orders from you. Trying to micromanage your son's father and GF and his parenting style won't work.n

Endangering the welfare of a minor is a crime, so it's unclear why you won't petition for full custody and supervised visitation. It's unclear how you could be ok with that.

Skip the suggesting  family therapy. Your ex and his GF Dont care. Protect your child from dangerous reckless activity. Do it legally through the courts, not email. Your responsibility is the safety of your child, not changing your ex.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Wiseman2

[S2B]

You will need the courts to grant you full custody if you want this changed.

unfortunately, your exH doesn’t make enough effort to make your son his priority. Second, he puts the responsibility on his fiancé. From there, she thinks she has a big say in raising your son. (Holding a 9 year old back a grade is VERY detrimental to the child)!

tell your ex that his fiancé doesn’t have any right to say how to raise your child! 
 

he needs to grow some balls and tell her to back off! It’s harming your son! I’d tell your ex that exactly.

and if she doesn’t - gain full custody based on her meddling and his inability to be a responsible parent.