How to handle this in my relationship

[Henry1234]

30 year old guy, girlfriend is 24.

Meet her, dated for a while, started being boyfriend and girlfriend.

She is smart, attractive, great sense of humor, very charming, we get along well in the personality sense, have the same vision and goals for the future, sex is great... a ton of amazing positive points that are not so easy to find.

But there are also some very negative ones, and im not sure how to better them or go around trying to improve them, I really thing there are many good positive points about her that I love and I wouldn't want to end this relationship, but these things really do need to improve somehow, but for some reason she is like this and at times it can be quite a pain in the butt.

- She gets angry easily over little things and has quite a rage, and also is very jealous at times to the extreme (She is a latina so I guess it is a common trait with alot of them, but still)

- The worst part is that when she gets angry or jealous over something she makes some version of how things are or happened and is acting like that because of that, and even when I try to tell her my point of view or how I see things, most of the time she takes those things like im trying to devalue her point, gets defensive, says im saying something bad about her or that she is making things up etc... or at times tries to spin things around and goes to the extreme to not accept any responsibility or accountability and that it was seemingly about me and my fault

- And at times the things she gets so mad about are so insignificant but still manage to make her so angry and upset, and alot of times its that she has this ideal and perfect vision of how something is supposed to be or happen like some fairytale in her head and when something doesn't go exactly as she planned it to go she is upset and angry and when I try to tell her things are not like that or I view it differently she just doesn't accept it up until the point where she rather just goes away and distances herself and acts upset and doesn't want to talk about it until after some time she cools down but can take a while, or it also happened where we had an argument on the phone and instead of trying to communicate about it she just got mad and hung up.

I also have to be very careful what to say because every little thing can trigger her and she feels like she is attacked, she can't take any constructive critique, not even something very small, she takes EVERYTHING as a personal attack and gets very upset about it and says that im insulting her and that she is the worst etc... she is very sensitive about these things.

 

So basically there are some quite hard things to deal with, not sure if i can do anything about her beeing so sensitive about everything, getting mad so fast or jealousy apart of telling her that its not good and we need to change it, but can I at least somehow try to get her to accept my point of view better? Because the communication is horrible because of that, if two people have an argument or are discussing an issue, the two need to listen and try to understand each other, but with her it seems like I almost can't solve anything or have any constructive talk about things because she takes everything as a personal attack, gets defensive, revolves around things, justifies doing the same thing she is arguing that its not the same for some reason, doesn't take accountability, doesn't even seem to want to understand my point of view but is only focused on how she sees it and thats how it is, so its very hard.

[Wiseman2]

58 minutes ago, Henry1234 said:

She is a latina so I guess it is a common trait with alot of them, but still. she can't take any constructive critique, not even something very small, she takes EVERYTHING as a personal attack and gets very upset about it and says that im insulting her and that she is the worst etc.

How long have you been dating? You seem quite incompatible. Your temperaments are too different.

Why are you "critiquing" her? Start by discontinuing that. She probably senses your prejudices and condescension.

Maybe she is moody, argumentative, etc. in general, but unfortunately you seem to bring out the worst in each other. You can't change her or her personality, but you can deescalate and cease the critiquing.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Wiseman2

[Weezy1973]

Look you the term Borderline Personality Disorder. There’s a book written on it called “Walking on Eggshells” which is sounds like you’re describing.

To be clear, I’m not diagnosing her with BPD. Just some of the things in your post reminded me of my experience with someone with BPD so good to rule it out.

[Henry1234]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

How long have you been dating? You seem quite incompatible. Your temperaments are to different.

Why are you "critiquing" her? Start by discontinuing that. She probably senses your prejudices and condescension. Maybe she is moody argumentative, etc. in general, but unfortunately you seem to bring out the worst in each other. You can't change her or her personality, but you can deescalate and cease the critiquing.

11 months.

The thing is im not critiquing her with some big things at all (she would probably go extremely mad over that) but its just small things, trying to make her see from my point of view and that maybe it was not all my fault, I will give you an example:

She was going to go sign up for some classes and I asked her if she needs me to lend her the money so she doesn't have to go to the bank, and she said no thats ok, and she went to sign up... then later she acted distant and cold, asked her whats up, she said nothing.. obviously I knew it was not nothing, I told her I know something is bothering you but I won't pressure you, when you are ready to talk let me know... she kept acting distant and barely said anything... then after a while... she got mad and started yelling how I didn't lend her the money blabla... and I told her that I offered to do it? And she said it should have been OBVIOUS to me and I should have just lend it to her without asking her, and she was extremely upset and pissed about it and very "disappointed", and I tried to "critique" in the sense that I said I realize she is upset but I can't read her mind, thats why I asked her.. and she said oh now its my fault...and got defensive... and that I should have known obvious things without having to ask her...

 

 

[glows]

It sounds like a lot of drama. A smart woman wouldn't be relying on a man to hand her cash for classes.

Rethink whether this is going anywhere. Both of you may be good in the moment but the relationship doesn't progress because of how dysfunctional it is overall. 

[Henry1234]

1 minute ago, glows said:

It sounds like a lot of drama. A smart woman wouldn't be relying on a man to hand her cash for classes.

Rethink whether this is going anywhere. Both of you may be good in the moment but the relationship doesn't progress because of how dysfunctional it is overall. 

Thats what im trying to figure out, why so much drama for such little things? Ive never had such drama in any relationship before, for little insignificant things.

And more importantly how to try to make my partner see that this is not good for us and to motivate them to work on it and change it?

[dramafreezone]

10 minutes ago, Henry1234 said:

Thats what im trying to figure out, why so much drama for such little things? Ive never had such drama in any relationship before, for little insignificant things.

And more importantly how to try to make my partner see that this is not good for us and to motivate them to work on it and change it?

Because it may be what she's learned by observing interpersonal relationships (her parents, her siblings).

This just may be what is normal behavior for her.  I've had a couple of girlfriends that would start arguments over almost nothing.  I think some people need to create some turmoil when things are too calm.  They cannot stand peace for an extended period of time.  They don't trust when things are going well, and perhaps assume that it's all going to end at some point so they create conflict to cope with those feelings.

If I have her pegged correctly, this is not something that she can just fix.  It's built on years of programming from her surroundings.  She'll need counseling/therapy and that has to be her idea.  In the meantime you have to decide if the positives outweigh the negatives.

Edited June 9, 2022 by dramafreezone

[Henry1234]

Just now, dramafreezone said:

Because it may be what she's learned by observing interpersonal relationships (her parents, her siblings).

This just may be what is normal behavior for her.  I've had a couple of girlfriends that would start arguments over almost nothing.  I think some people need to create some turmoil when things are too calm.  They cannot stand peace for an extended period of time.  They don't trust when things are going well, and perhaps assume that it's all going to end at some point so they create conflict to cope with those feelings.

If I have her pegged correctly, this is not something that she can just fix.  It's built on years of programming from her surroundings.  She'll need counseling/therapy and that has to be her idea.  In the meantime you have to decide if the positives outweigh the negatives.

Her parents have had a very abusive relationship so I guess you are spot on about that.

[glows]

6 minutes ago, Henry1234 said:

Thats what im trying to figure out, why so much drama for such little things? Ive never had such drama in any relationship before, for little insignificant things.

And more importantly how to try to make my partner see that this is not good for us and to motivate them to work on it and change it?

That last part is a bit iffy (bold). You date to see what and who a person is, how the handle adversity, challenges, how they work through problems or also problem solve with you. You're realizing what a lot of couples realize and it's not an uncommon issue. Sex and intimacy may 10/10 and you want the same things on paper (same future goals) but as soon as there's any disagreement you both go right down the toilet and aren't able to work out your differences. You can't do it all on your own and it takes two. Maybe you're realizing that just now. 

The irony is the more you seek to change her the less and less receptive she may get. That's when you might want to ask yourself if your partner has checked out or is no longer on the same page as you. 

Without any other details or why she is the way she is or insight from you about why she is angry all the time, resentful and jealous, I can't comment about whether you both should stay together or work anything out. It's too bad that she resorts to whatever she does or says without just breaking up with you if she doesn't get along with you. Do you help her with her bills or does she depend on you financially for anything?

[Wiseman2]

23 minutes ago, Henry1234 said:

how to try to make my partner see that this is not good for us and to motivate them to work on it and change it?

If you have to fix and change someone in order to be with them, you're with the wrong person, it's that simple. Plus whoever you are trying to fix/change will resent it causing even more discord.

Step way back and observe what's going on. Keep in mind, "hot" won't conquer all. That wears off around this time coming on a year.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Wiseman2

[Henry1234]

32 minutes ago, glows said:

That last part is a bit iffy (bold). You date to see what and who a person is, how the handle adversity, challenges, how they work through problems or also problem solve with you. You're realizing what a lot of couples realize and it's not an uncommon issue. Sex and intimacy may 10/10 and you want the same things on paper (same future goals) but as soon as there's any disagreement you both go right down the toilet and aren't able to work out your differences. You can't do it all on your own and it takes two. Maybe you're realizing that just now. 

The irony is the more you seek to change her the less and less receptive she may get. That's when you might want to ask yourself if your partner has checked out or is no longer on the same page as you. 

Without any other details or why she is the way she is or insight from you about why she is angry all the time, resentful and jealous, I can't comment about whether you both should stay together or work anything out. It's too bad that she resorts to whatever she does or says without just breaking up with you if she doesn't get along with you. Do you help her with her bills or does she depend on you financially for anything?

I assume her jealousy is from her past relationship, she only had 1 serious one and the guy cheated on her for a while before she found out... her dad also cheated on her mom, so theres that.

Im not sure where her anger and resentfulness comes from, but she has quite alot of conflicts with friends, family.. and many times stops talking to some and has not talked to them since because they did something and she resents them, so she has alot of drama and conflicts with quite a few people, alltho she always claims its their fault, many times I think she overreacts alot and is also somewhat responsible from what she told me about the conflict (and that was just her side).

I do pay for alot of stuff since she is financially not that stable.

She is quite unhappy with that btw, she was hoping to have her career and everything settled by now but its quite a while before she has and she feels very unhappy about that and disappointed in herself and very hard on herself, so from what aspect she is not in the most happy place in her life.

[glows]

15 minutes ago, Henry1234 said:

I assume her jealousy is from her past relationship, she only had 1 serious one and the guy cheated on her for a while before she found out... her dad also cheated on her mom, so theres that.

Im not sure where her anger and resentfulness comes from, but she has quite alot of conflicts with friends, family.. and many times stops talking to some and has not talked to them since because they did something and she resents them, so she has alot of drama and conflicts with quite a few people, alltho she always claims its their fault, many times I think she overreacts alot and is also somewhat responsible from what she told me about the conflict (and that was just her side).

I do pay for alot of stuff since she is financially not that stable.

She is quite unhappy with that btw, she was hoping to have her career and everything settled by now but its quite a while before she has and she feels very unhappy about that and disappointed in herself and very hard on herself, so from what aspect she is not in the most happy place in her life.

I'm all for support and working as a team but it seems one-sided and dating a person who isn't happy with his/herself is a constant uphill battle. Is there a reason why you find appeal in this? Was she financially stable before? Feeling unsteady or needing to rely on someone can make a person irritable as she's doing. She also appears trapped depending on you to pay her way while resenting you. 

You've only been dating for one year. I think the first five years in any relationship is more or less the honeymoon period and it's not the case with the both of you at all. You're not even married, nor do you have kids. At 24, I'd imagine depending on anyone (not a family member) practically intolerable. She's young and probably doesn't see eye to eye with a 30 year old either who keeps telling her she should change.

[Foxhall]

2 hours ago, Henry1234 said:

She gets angry easily over little things and has quite a rage, and also is very jealous at times to the extreme (She is a latina so I guess it is a common trait with alot of them, but still)

lol I imagine there is a grain of truth in this ( I also date a latina)

she says my laidback nature does calm her, so perhaps not engaging as much and avoid argumentative situations,

In saying that you dont want her dictating all the terms of the relationship and you need a mind of your own too,

overall Id say she is young and needs to find time to grow and find her way, 

so it depends how much you want the relationship,

 you may have to make a few sacrifices hold back a bit yourself if you want to make things flow.  make her feel she is the special one and you are willing to accommodate her.

 

[deepthinking]

She has stopped being on her best behaviour Now she has you involved with her, her mask is slipping.

[Alpacalia]

Your girlfriend's response to criticism and perceived threats is overly developed, in that she will constantly try to defend herself against a perceived attack, even when there is none. 

The problem arises when you talk constantly to each other and only get constant reminders of annoying deeper issues that are never resolved.

The moment that line has been crossed, it is no longer enough to simply ask how to communicate with her and avoid the deeper problems that await. 

She lacks introspection, which is unfortunate.

It is difficult to motivate people to change, and it is very likely that she will always argue this way. What's more, it seems that it's working for her - she can wring all the information out of you that she desires, without having to admit that any wrong-doing has taken place on her part.

In this case, why would she change a technique which is working so well?

Does this sound like how you would like the rest of your relationship to be? If so, I'd probably recommend you stop caving into her for disagreeing with her, however. In this case what you may (justly) see as something that a mature person would say as an argument winds down and compromises begin to be made may actually just be the act of conceding defeat.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Alpacalia

[Henry1234]

13 hours ago, deepthinking said:

She has stopped being on her best behaviour Now she has you involved with her, her mask is slipping.

Ah, so you mean in the early stages she was holding back her true self, trying to be as appealing as possible, but now she is just how she always is?

[Henry1234]

10 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

Your girlfriend's response to criticism and perceived threats is overly developed, in that she will constantly try to defend herself against a perceived attack, even when there is none. 

The problem arises when you talk constantly to each other and only get constant reminders of annoying deeper issues that are never resolved.

The moment that line has been crossed, it is no longer enough to simply ask how to communicate with her and avoid the deeper problems that await. 

She lacks introspection, which is unfortunate.

It is difficult to motivate people to change, and it is very likely that she will always argue this way. What's more, it seems that it's working for her - she can wring all the information out of you that she desires, without having to admit that any wrong-doing has taken place on her part.

In this case, why would she change a technique which is working so well?

Does this sound like how you would like the rest of your relationship to be? If so, I'd probably recommend you stop caving into her for disagreeing with her, however. In this case what you may (justly) see as something that a mature person would say as an argument winds down and compromises begin to be made may actually just be the act of conceding defeat.

Yes thats exactly it, its impossible to argument anything without her taking it as a personal attack, infact many times I even do something or say something when we are not arguing that she takes as an attack, or when I hug her and kiss her when we see each other but maybe the day before was slightly more intense and theres something wrong I must have a lover.. basically she makes up alot of drama... now ok its fine that different people react differently to things and nobody is perfect, but what bothers me is that its not possible to resolve anything because you can't argument anything, she takes it as an attack or spins it around and its always the way she sees it, doesn't try to understand my point and get to some middle ground... thats what ive been struggling with most... and more and more starting to think that its almost impossible to make some big improvements here idk..

Lacks introspection in what sense do you mean?

Your right about the point of stop caving in but its that I do not try to cave in, I try to argument my case, try to make her understand things from my point of view but she just takes it as an attack or spins it or simply says im wrong and its like she says it... so in the end I have nothing else but to just say ok then if you feel that way... and move on from that, or it will be an endless thing, idk.

[glows]

4 minutes ago, Henry1234 said:

Yes thats exactly it, its impossible to argument anything without her taking it as a personal attack, infact many times I even do something or say something when we are not arguing that she takes as an attack, or when I hug her and kiss her when we see each other but maybe the day before was slightly more intense and theres something wrong I must have a lover.. basically she makes up alot of drama... now ok its fine that different people react differently to things and nobody is perfect, but what bothers me is that its not possible to resolve anything because you can't argument anything, she takes it as an attack or spins it around and its always the way she sees it, doesn't try to understand my point and get to some middle ground... thats what ive been struggling with most... and more and more starting to think that its almost impossible to make some big improvements here idk..

Lacks introspection in what sense do you mean?

Your right about the point of stop caving in but its that I do not try to cave in, I try to argument my case, try to make her understand things from my point of view but she just takes it as an attack or spins it or simply says im wrong and its like she says it... so in the end I have nothing else but to just say ok then if you feel that way... and move on from that, or it will be an endless thing, idk.

I think it’s one thing to sit detached away from a topic and judge a situation and it’s another to be in it living that reality. Introspection works best when a person is several degrees removed or not emotionally attached. It’s a rather textbook approach to a messy life situation where two people are just incompatible. Some are able to do that because they’re never actually attached. Your girlfriend is not only going through some financial trouble, she’s younger than you and she doesn’t like you arguing your case. You’re both different people. 

Instead of criticizing her and vice versa, why not just stop? And stop putting up with someone who can’t connect with you. Stop paying her bills and keeping her under your control as that is a form of control and manipulation. 

There’s a very good chance she doesn’t respect you either but she uses you because she needs you around. 

You have some decisions to make as it doesn’t sound like this is working. It’s more harmful to the both of you to stay together.

[stillafool]

16 hours ago, Henry1234 said:

She is quite unhappy with that btw, she was hoping to have her career and everything settled by now but its quite a while before she has and she feels very unhappy about that and disappointed in herself and very hard on herself, so from what aspect she is not in the most happy place in her life.

What is she doing about this?

[giotto]

She is a tad immature, being only 24... hopefully, she will get better with "age"... 

[Henry1234]

16 minutes ago, glows said:

I think it’s one thing to sit detached away from a topic and judge a situation and it’s another to be in it living that reality. Introspection works best when a person is several degrees removed or not emotionally attached. It’s a rather textbook approach to a messy life situation where two people are just incompatible. Some are able to do that because they’re never actually attached. Your girlfriend is not only going through some financial trouble, she’s younger than you and she doesn’t like you arguing your case. You’re both different people. 

Instead of criticizing her and vice versa, why not just stop? And stop putting up with someone who can’t connect with you. Stop paying her bills and keeping her under your control as that is a form of control and manipulation. 

There’s a very good chance she doesn’t respect you either but she uses you because she needs you around. 

You have some decisions to make as it doesn’t sound like this is working. It’s more harmful to the both of you to stay together.

I never said im paying for her, I said financially the burden is more on my side at this moment, but it is still shared, but obviously it won't be 50-50 if the other person is in a worse state financially.

[Henry1234]

16 minutes ago, stillafool said:

What is she doing about this?

Trying to build a career but she is slightly confused on what she actually wants and changes her mind often, and gets frustrated with it, so its like... a work in progress I guess

[glows]

1 minute ago, Henry1234 said:

I never said im paying for her, I said financially the burden is more on my side at this moment, but it is still shared, but obviously it won't be 50-50 if the other person is in a worse state financially.

I suggest expecting less from this relationship as she’s not receptive to what you say. 

You’re looking for miracle ways to appeal to someone who may just not like your input. Rethink whether she’s using you or both of you are together out of convenience.

[Henry1234]

Just now, glows said:

I suggest expecting less from this relationship as she’s not receptive to what you say. 

You’re looking for miracle ways to appeal to someone who may just not like your input. Rethink whether she’s using you or both of you are together out of convenience.

I get what you are saying and that is a very good point, I would probably be thinking something in a similar way in terms of communication, only that its the same with every single person in her life, its not like im the outliner but she has this kind of communication with everyone, friends, family, so its not so much about the relationship.

[smackie9]

The only way it can work is that she acknowledges the issues of her anger and agrees to get professional counseling for it. If not, there is no chance to survive this.