An argument I want to make sense of

[lovesflame]

I have not been here in over a year and I am seeking help again. Here is the story:

I met a special someone and they live near [X] and I live near [X]. We have had a wonderful connection on the phone and meeting in person it went wonderful We met about 3 or 4 months ago. She's a very successful woman and I am starting a new job that is a huge improvement and have many good opportunities come my way lately. We get together on a lot of spiritual practices/ideas and have a wonderful sex life. I have been through a lot as you can see from my old posts here, and I am trying to not be very triggered but we have had some difficult conversations lately, and I need help.

I had a car that I owed over 15 thousand on and there was a freak incident with the motor and it broke down on a road trip to see her. I could not fix it and I consulted with attorneys and decided bankruptcy was the best option. I  also owed about 12 thousand on credit cards: some of it was from exes taking advantage of me, but mostly it was for little things here and there because my salary froze for four years and my rent went up, etc. I did not tell her about this right away. She told me she had a vision and consulted tarot and knew I was hiding something. I told her I have nothing to hide and was waiting to tell her at the right time. I truly believe the bankruptcy will be a fresh start and it is my only window of opportunity to do it before my income goes up substantially. We argued a bit about this on the phone and I was got mad.

I went out there the next day as planned and we talked through everything and decided to communicate more openly- We had been talking about life partnership and being together and me moving there and introducing our kids to one another, etc. She tells me now that we will focus on just slowing down. We had  great talk and a wonderful time.

Ac couple weeks later, Basically, she comes out here for one day for my birthday which was thoughtful. She tells me that she wants to "love without attachment to the outcome." Just love in the moment. I say that's great but what does it have to do with us?

She doesn't want to talk about it on my birthday but I say let's just get it out there. She says she has been considering that even though she wants to be with me more than anything and for life-partnership that maybe it's not what the universe wants and this is the first time she has accepted that and decided to love without attaching to any outcome. That maybe I am not able to align with her financially because I got into debt she said she's already had to wait for a husband to promise he would get his finances in order. I did not freak out or anything but I said it seems like you want to break up .She said maybe that's what it is and so on.

I got a little brooding and quiet. She became upset and said I forced her to talk. Then to give her space so I go to walk out and she becomes upset and says she's going to leave to a hotel. I told her to calm down and stay. We kissed and made up made love. 

The next morning, it was a good morning she told me "we aren't breaking up and all she can say is we will go with the flow and if we are meant to be then we will be."

We had a great morning showing each other love and affection, etc.

She left for a work retreat and is in a nice beach area. She told me a plan to come visit afterwards, and I am giving her time to be there and enjoy the getaway. 

Personally, I am doing better than before, but I feel the abandonment wounds- I had my years of therapy but of course I feel anxiety and scared. I really am going to be doing well financially this isn't some sort of story I am telling. I just want to have a happy relationship with her.

Edited June 17, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Wiseman2]

On 6/5/2022 at 11:11 AM, lovesflame said:

 they live near [X] and I live near [X]. We met about 3 or 4 months ago.

Sorry this is happening. Way too much way too soon. Add to that the financial woes, and long distance. Sadly there is so much stacked against this. Slow down and take her up on the offer to do casual/see what happens. 

Edited June 17, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Personal information

[lovesflame]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening. Way too much way too soon. Add to that the financial woes, and long distance. Sadly there is so much stacked against this. Slow down and take her up on the offer to do casual/see what happens. 

Thank you. I thought I really improved after all the help on the forum in the past and my therapy. I didn't rush into anything over the last year, But I  find myself in a situation that went too fast again. I really do love and like her as a person and it's been full of love. I am going to try to slow down I just feel so shitty now. I don't want to end up as bad as before.

[Weezy1973]

15 hours ago, lovesflame said:

, But I  find myself in a situation that went too fast again.

Moving fast is a hallmark of abandonment issues and insecure attachment. You subconsciously push for things to move fast because you want to alleviate your anxiety. 

[smackie9]

I agree you are moving way too fast. I can totally see her point, and for now it's not in the cards at this moment to be planning with moving in together, etc. You can't possibly really know someone after 4 months of dating. I would give that at least another year of dating before committing to cohabitation. As for comingling finances, you don't have to and still have a relationship together. I have been with my husband for over 32 years and we don't even share a credit card or any bank accounts. We split everything down the middle monthly when it comes to bills, property taxes, food, etc. Everything is separate and guess what...it works. We never complain about money. Whatever is left over, is our own to do with whatever we want. If he wants to go out and buy a motorcycle, he doesn't have to consult with me. It's his money to spend. So you go right back to her and explain there doesn't have to be comingled finances/joint accounts, just share with the monthly expenses. It's so easy peasy. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by smackie9

[dramafreezone]

OP, what is the downside of doing what she suggested, to just live in the moment, love without attaching to outcome, and to slow down?  It seems like that would be the best for both of you?  Doesn't mean that things won't change once you work through your issues.

As a practical matter, you don't really have a choice if she doesn't want to go forward with concrete plans, but in this case I think she's is the one thinking through this more clearly and rationally.  She can't attach herself to hypotheticals given your history, she has to see your plans come to fruition before she can trust you.

Edited June 6, 2022 by dramafreezone

[glows]

I’d wait and focus on improving your finances. You can continue seeing her casually but I think she’s more bothered that you didn’t disclose fully your financial situation or what your plans are. It’s fair for her to want to know what she’s getting into. She may not want to have anything to do with your debt or the both of you depending on her credit for the next decade. It does sound like she is willing to see you and that may be emotions talking but her head will guide her otherwise if you’re not compatible. 

I’m sorry.

[introverted1]

Sorry, OP, but if a man I was seeing told me he was declaring bankruptcy over what seems like financial mismanagement, I would back off, too.  That will affect your credit and in turn your living situation, future car/car loan, and a lot of other stuff for many years.

In some ways, I think you've inadvertently dodged a bullet:  you shouldn't be talking about "life partnerships" a mere 3-4 months after you've met someone.

Edited June 6, 2022 by introverted1

[lovesflame]

17 hours ago, introverted1 said:

Sorry, OP, but if a man I was seeing told me he was declaring bankruptcy over what seems like financial mismanagement, I would back off, too.  That will affect your credit and in turn your living situation, future car/car loan, and a lot of other stuff for many years.

In some ways, I think you've inadvertently dodged a bullet:  you shouldn't be talking about "life partnerships" a mere 3-4 months after you've met someone.

It wasn't my fault the car exploded, and to clarify for all the posters -I haven't declared bankruptcy I have just been considering it. looking into it. 

There's no point in not being completely honest on this forum, so I have to say that I really enjoyed hearing her talk about family and life partner and love of her life and all of that. She has said multiple times that I rushed her but I don't find that accurate. We both were contributing. It made me feel loved. Made me feel good.

I am trying to get through this hard time, she is away on a week long solo getaway, and I haven't spoke to her once. The anxiety was quite bad so I just saw friends to alleviate the pain and slept for like twelve hours straight. 

I wonder what do I do when she gets back? What do I say?

I promise I am not here to hurt her finances in any way and as someone said above, I don't even need to mingle finances in the first place. There's no reason to. 

I wonder what can I do one she returns- I feel like this is a breakup even though she said it wasn't. I have been stressing and this morning is the first time I am not upset in days.

[vla1120]

22 minutes ago, lovesflame said:

I wonder what can I do one she returns- I feel like this is a breakup even though she said it wasn't. I have been stressing and this morning is the first time I am not upset in days.

It sounds like you each have triggers that will get in the way of this relationship. Her trigger seems to be financial issues, stemming from a husband who didn't come through. Yours seems to be abandonment, which is triggered by her wanting to slow down. 

It doesn't have to be a breakup. Try to slow down and take it one day at a time without attaching yourself to a desired outcome, as she has requested. You're still getting to know one another. Honestly, your finances are none of her concern, as long as you do not plan to commingle finances. Also, I would let her know that your financial problems will not become her problems to put her at ease. Then, just relax and enjoy each others' company for now. 

[smackie9]

I recommend a credit counselling. You can find someone to help you consolidate and reduce the money you owe. You can negotiate with creditors because they want their money "right now", and usually are willing to take less to get the money. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by smackie9

[lovesflame]

This is all great advice and insight. I agree that the triggers are coming up in both of us I am working through mine as best as possible. I will try to negotiate with the creditors. Besides the car which is about 16 thousand. I owe in total around 14 thousand on the cards. Maybe I could get out of this.

Also, I plan to reassure her that I will not harm her financially in any way, shape, or form.

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, lovesflame said:

I plan to reassure her that I will not harm her financially in any way, shape, or form.

Why even  bring that up? Just don't do super expensive things like date long distance. She has ended things except for casual.

[glows]

1 hour ago, lovesflame said:

This is all great advice and insight. I agree that the triggers are coming up in both of us I am working through mine as best as possible. I will try to negotiate with the creditors. Besides the car which is about 16 thousand. I owe in total around 14 thousand on the cards. Maybe I could get out of this.

Also, I plan to reassure her that I will not harm her financially in any way, shape, or form.

I don't think you need to address that further. It's not likely she would have anything to do with you if she knew you'd "harm her financially" and you can't harm her in any way if she doesn't agree to it. Don't patronize her or assume that she'd fall for that. You're hurt and stung a little from her slowing things down. I think she's distancing herself from you and this is an eventual break up or going your separate ways. 

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't keep seeing that person casually. She's just moved to a space where you both are also free to date others and I think you're going to hurt yourself further carrying on this back and forth situation. 

You found someone you're not compatible with and it's ok to move on.

 

[lovesflame]

 

This is especially hard for me since we haven't spoken in days.

I am expecting her to come back with a break-up speech. 

Also, I wonder how come that night she wanted to run out and break up we calmed down- made love and then she told me the next morning that we aren't breaking up- showed me love all day. affection and saying when she'll see me again. Why?

and why am I viewing this as a breakup when she said that? What can I do I am crying all morning and remembering all of the great times we had all the laughs and love and fun and deep conversations lasting all night. 

[glows]

I wouldn't make much of what she said that night. People take time to process information. If she found you truly a man she wants to be with she wouldn't have gone on about very wacky existential stuff about "love without attachment to the outcome" and what the universe wants. This is padded language for "let's just not think about it or talk about it too much". Come what may, if you like. And also a soft rejection not necessarily addressing that there's no real intention to grow together. 

I suggest you go back to what you are looking for in a relationship long term. If it's to grow with someone, eventually cohabitate and marry a partner, you both seem to be growing apart not closer. I would think twice about someone who also brushes aside your feelings with language like the above. It's avoidant and doesn't address a shift in interest.

Take a breather for the next few days and think about consolidation of debt as Smackie said or go ahead with the bankruptcy filing. I agree that this could be a fresh start but it's also a sacrifice in other ways. You have a lot going on at the moment that needs your attention. Keeping in touch with her when your emotions are running like this isn't a good idea. Step back a bit.

[lovesflame]

3 minutes ago, glows said:

I wouldn't make much of what she said that night. People take time to process information. If she found you truly a man she wants to be with she wouldn't have gone on about very wacky existential stuff about "love without attachment to the outcome" and what the universe wants. This is padded language for "let's just not think about it or talk about it too much". Come what may, if you like. And also a soft rejection not necessarily addressing that there's no real intention to grow together. 

 

 

That's exactly how I took it as well- I have heard this before.She then convinced me that I was the one interpreting what she said as  "she doesn't want to be with me."

She told me not to get upset or disconnect from her right after she said the above. Then freaked out when I went to go on a walk outside- I thought that was giving space. 

I mean I am glad she didn't run out of the house and end like that and I it's good we spent loving morning together. I just feel so left in limbo now it's a powerless feeling and full of pain.

I went and got my paperwork turned in this morning to have a pro bono attorney- and I just had a good job interview yesterday.

For now, I keep pulling tarot cards to see what the future holds and I am just more anxious.

But everything changed once she found out about the bankruptcy- the only reason she knew about it is because she told me she had a dream and a tarot card and knew there was something I was hiding either another lover or something else. I thought I was going to fix everything- I literally have got TWO good new jobs that start soon and are going to turn my life around.

 

[glows]

Ok stay away from the tarot cards. They are not going to tell you your future. Keep that aside for another time when your mind is clear and you can read better, if you want to think of it that way. This seems like a nervous reaction to stress. Try other coping mechanisms like exercise. Go for a walk, hydrate yourself, watch a documentary that teaches you something or engage in equally meaningful and pleasant things. 

Stay very grounded and keep on working on the interviews. Good work on the job interview yesterday. Don't forget to follow up with a thank you. Congratulations on the two other jobs. You seem to have a lot on your plate so stay focused. 

You're shaken and feeling insecure because of your finances so improve them but on your terms, not to get a woman to like you back or feel strongly about you. Find empowerment in that, your own decisions for your future. If she can't accept you the way you are or wants to move this to casual, you can make the decision whether you want to pursue that from a place of confidence, not insecurity.

 

 

[lovesflame]

54 minutes ago, glows said:

Find empowerment in that, your own decisions for your future. If she can't accept you the way you are or wants to move this to casual, you can make the decision whether you want to pursue that from a place of confidence, not insecurity.

 

 

Yes, this is all great advice. I really appreciate it. I am trying not to get really drunk.

The thing is everyone else in my life was happy for me saying I have a new chance getting out of debt, and new jobs and really starting to pursue my dreams in other ways. I know she is  a very successful woman in this world, yet I am doing better for myself too. The thing is she was all about our life and future and having all the kids together until we began to fight about me considering bankruptcy. I get it- she felt I mislead her but that was not my angle.

I hope one day I feel better again. I was doing very well emotionally before this relationship started pulling away I did yell at her once about the bankruptcy but besides that I have treated her so well and been understanding, listening, supportive, kind and patient. 

I hate just waiting around for her to return- everything is always based around her schedule .

[glows]

18 minutes ago, lovesflame said:

Yes, this is all great advice. I really appreciate it. I am trying not to get really drunk.

The thing is everyone else in my life was happy for me saying I have a new chance getting out of debt, and new jobs and really starting to pursue my dreams in other ways. I know she is  a very successful woman in this world, yet I am doing better for myself too. The thing is she was all about our life and future and having all the kids together until we began to fight about me considering bankruptcy. I get it- she felt I mislead her but that was not my angle.

I hope one day I feel better again. I was doing very well emotionally before this relationship started pulling away I did yell at her once about the bankruptcy but besides that I have treated her so well and been understanding, listening, supportive, kind and patient. 

I hate just waiting around for her to return- everything is always based around her schedule .

Yes, stay away from the booze. It just slows down your response time and makes for bad decisions down the line. If you want to keep seeing her, let this blow over. She appears to still want to see you casually. 

What did you yell about specifically? How did she respond when you yelled at her? 

Maybe this dynamic isn't what you're looking for. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by glows

[Wiseman2]

22 minutes ago, lovesflame said:

I am trying not to get really drunk.. until we began to fight about me considering bankruptcy. I get it- she felt I mislead her but that was not my angle.

You can start by getting the drinking under control. Your mental health and fiscal health will not improve with addictions in the way, whether it's gambling, drinking, spending, etc. 3 months it about the time people assess compatibility and in this case you're not compatible. Add to that long-shot odds by dating long distance. 

[lovesflame]

7 minutes ago, glows said:

 

What did you yell about specifically? How did she respond when you yelled at her? 

 

I was drunk and upset from an earlier argument- no excuse I take full responsibility. She called me and was saying that she was still coming to terms with how I had betrayed her by not telling her the bankruptcy. I just got mad I didn't say anything hurtful I was just so mad that she thought of me as someone who was decietful and I was in high stress thinking she was going to leave me.

the response was I went out there the next day (as scheduled) and the we talked everything out I explained why I got into debt and told her let's focus on communicating properly. WE had a wonderful time the next day and agreed to move on and transform the relationship instead of argue in that way again- I gave her actionable steps and took responsibility that if I were upset I would just walk away or get off the phone next time.

This was two weeks ago and I thought we were fine until she came out this time. I just want to make it work. I know I get upset thinking she will leave me it's just I haven't had a partner stay with me after a fight in over five years as soon as there is a fight they leave me- I am not used to love after anger. I am not used to being forgiven. 

[glows]

1 hour ago, lovesflame said:

I was drunk and upset from an earlier argument- no excuse I take full responsibility. She called me and was saying that she was still coming to terms with how I had betrayed her by not telling her the bankruptcy. I just got mad I didn't say anything hurtful I was just so mad that she thought of me as someone who was decietful and I was in high stress thinking she was going to leave me.

the response was I went out there the next day (as scheduled) and the we talked everything out I explained why I got into debt and told her let's focus on communicating properly. WE had a wonderful time the next day and agreed to move on and transform the relationship instead of argue in that way again- I gave her actionable steps and took responsibility that if I were upset I would just walk away or get off the phone next time.

This was two weeks ago and I thought we were fine until she came out this time. I just want to make it work. I know I get upset thinking she will leave me it's just I haven't had a partner stay with me after a fight in over five years as soon as there is a fight they leave me- I am not used to love after anger. I am not used to being forgiven. 

If she can't accept you as you are now, this isn't looking good for you. I understand you want to make it work. I get the feeling that you don't feel confident around her and that insecurity and lack of confidence is also influencing your dynamic together as a couple. It may not be the possible filing for bankruptcy even that turns her away. It's that you just don't seem happy with yourself and are worried all the time that you're not good enough for her. If you have a problem with alcohol or drinking stay sober and don't touch alcohol. Look into support and means to stay sober. 

 

[lovesflame]

24 minutes ago, glows said:. I get the feeling that you don't feel confident around her and that insecurity and lack of confidence is also influencing your dynamic together as a couple. It may not be the possible filing for bankruptcy even that turns her away. It's that you just don't seem happy with yourself and are worried all the time that you're not good enough for her. If you have a problem with alcohol or drinking stay sober and don't touch alcohol. Look into support and means to stay sober. 

 

I was feeling more confident than ever so many success came my way- change career , got opportunities and gigs felt happy and healthy . 
she started small telling me that women I was friends with wanted me so bad questioning me seeing a woman friend .

then she started telling me that my ex energy was stored in my chakra and when I got mad and quiet told me I was sending her negative energy. 
then told me that the stored energy was harming her during sex . 
then told me she was moving here then changed her mind once she found a program to get a home there .

then it became non stop about the bankruptcy and the time I got mad about it .

 I thought we worked it out .

now, I don’t feel confident- she’s away and not contacting me- just because we kissed and made up before she left -doesn’t make me any more confident- 

if she knew how I am and get anxious she wouldn’t leave me this way. 
when I told her I wanted a hug and she wanted space told me I’m emotionally manipulative.

 I don’t know what to do I was hoping I could go out there the day she returns and give her a massage and make her dinner . 
i don’t know anything else to say but I want your advice . Thank you so much for helping me 

[Wiseman2]

3 minutes ago, lovesflame said:

if she knew how I am and get anxious she wouldn’t leave me this way. 

She is not your therapist or mother. Let go . Focus on the underlying problems that led your life into chronic chaos and turmoil. Drinking for sure.

Yes, the truth is bankruptcy and chronic financial problems are deal-breakers for a lot of people.