Author LoveComplexity Posted May 27, 2022 Author Posted May 27, 2022 Just now, dramafreezone said: Look, everyone deals with depression at some point in their lives. But this sample size clearly demonstrates a pattern of women that by your account would all benefit from intensive counseling/therapy. Why would you think these women are suitable relationship partners? I don't think this is bad luck, you are selecting these women because of some common quality amongst them that you find to be attractive. People are not fixer-uppers for you. How you get them is how you should be prepared to keep them. A lot of people have childhood trauma, but some of them not only seek out the help that they need, they actually learn to lead very successful and healthy lives. Not to sound callous but her having childhood issues or bad experiences with relationships doesn't mean it's your job to deal with the fallout. She can't control what happened to her but she can control how she handles it today. What I will place at your doorstep is that this isn't luck, this is a pattern of yours so that's something you have to evaluate within yourself. As long as you keep telling yourself that these women "happened to you" and there's nothing you could do about it, well, it's certain that you will keep dating them. Or, you can take responsibility and understand that you had a part in cultivating these relationships. 4 minutes ago, mark clemson said: Ok, perhaps look into that. Certainly part of that is that there are women like that floating around out there. That said, perhaps you are unconsciously gravitating towards somewhat more problematic ones and then trying to "make it work"? Perhaps try to work on your "picker" so to speak and maybe not reject the ones who have fewer issues and not accept ones who maybe have more deeply rooted issues. When possible - I certainly agree and respect that it's not always easy to sort out the other person's psychology. I've heard it said around here that it can take six months for the "real them" to emerge (where they're no longer on best behavior in the relationship). Yes some very good points here. I mean I know dramafreezone, the first time she had a huge jealousy outburst (crying, panic, didn't want me to touch her or come near) that lasted for more than 30 minutes.. she then was very apologetic and that she is so sorry she didnt mean it etc... and I clearly said that in a relationship we need trust or this won't work.. im not her ex boyfriends nor am I her father, she needs to treat me as me.. she said yes I will... but it kept repeating itself. In terms of me continuing with them I guess maybe I have to learn how to let people go, it seems like I get to know them and we start being together, being a couple, getting feelings etc... and then when with time I get to know all these deeply rooted issues, most people would leave, but I have this sort of mentality that everyone has faults, and also that when you commit to a relationship you should give 200% and try your best for the longest possible in order to make it work, regardless of the hardships, as I was always taught that relationships have alot of hardships and bad moments also and you shoudl stick through it with your partner in order to build something that lasts for a long time... but maybe my thinking and my view on this is wrong.
Wiseman2 Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, LoveComplexity said: the first time she had a huge jealousy outburst (crying, panic, didn't want me to touch her or come near) that lasted for more than 30 minutes.. she then was very apologetic and that she is so sorry she didnt mean it etc..... but it kept repeating itself. Don't let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch. If you are the common denominator in bad choices, well, you can stop and reflect on that. There are plenty of fine women out there, you haven't found one yet. maybe your criteria is off, maybe you like drama, maybe you're not looking in the right places for quality women. Hanging out with naysayers and negative people won't help you. There are 3,904,727,342 females on earth, so your friends' logic is tainted and makes no statistical sense. Take a break from dating until you regroup, revise and reflect. Then there will be a better outlook. Look for quality women in quality places. Volunteer. Take some classes and courses, join some groups and clubs. Forget bars and while OLD is a useful tool in your toolbag, don't rely on that alone to bring the perfect mate to your doorstep. Edited May 27, 2022 by Wiseman2 3
Ami1uwant Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 2 hours ago, stillafool said: This is interesting because women come here and complain about the exact same thing about men in their 40s.. The drivers are different. 40 yr old guys who re entlupy got out of a marriage/ LTR are looking to sleep around since sex was probably an issue innthe relationship. they don’t want baggage ( like kids) 1
Ami1uwant Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 50 minutes ago, LoveComplexity said: Mark no I will gladly answer, I think talking about this openly with other people is very helpful. First of all let me say that ive dated quite a few girls where I didn't feel like we were compatible enough, so I generally don't take it to the next level if we simply do not have any interests or other things that are big hurdles. But in terms of serious relationships, ive only had 4, generally when I do choose a female to be my partner I give it 100% and really try to commit to making the relationship work, because im looking for something long term, a life partner. First relationship was a bit over 3 years, the other 3 were quite similar around 1 - 2.5 years. Why I say I have bad luck? The 1st gf had severe problems with depression, the relationship was good but sometimes she fell into depression for weeks and it was extremely hard, when she was not in depression it was great, but overall it was quite emotionally draining and constant, we then separated because she went to study in another country so it would have been distance and we could see each other very rarely, so we decided to go our separate ways, it was hard because we loved each other alot, but overall it was quite hard with the depression 2nd gf very open and bubbly personality but had anger issues, with me, with family, with friends, she was almost a narcisist but not to that serious extent in that everything was mostly about her, and whenever it was not or something was not how she wanted it to be she threw temper tantrums and anger outbursts against everyone, it was quite tough to deal with at times and it was impossible to talk to her, this was the shortest relationship I had at just about 1 year 3rd gf similar to the 1st one, had depression problems in that at times she was low, no will, unhappy, didn't care about anything etc... and at times she was really open and great and fun.. so it was similar to the 1st relationship alot of ups and downs, emotionally draining.. on top of that she was very undecided, at first she said she wanted x, then suddenly she wanted another thing, once deep into the relationship she came up with that she wants kids at (age at where she is at currently) so basically the same year, and she did not have a job at the moment and we didn't have anything stable yet made, so we kind of viewed at this very differently, I was not even ready to have kids yet on top of the fact that I believe you need to have a stable home and income to think about it, so we drifted apart because of that mostly, but again the deperssion and her mood swings made it also hard. The last gf had alot of issues, had severe childhood trauma, bad past relationships with abuse and infidelity, she has extremely low self esteem (she admits it herself) and gets very upset or cries if anything happens that she questions herself, she also had a few depression like moments when something was not going perfect in that she wanted to give up her goals or dreams and that nothing matters etc... also had anger outbursts at times when things did not go how she wanted, she was very jealous at times and made stories in her head at times and accused me of things out of the blue and many more things. Now I know im not perfect and also have mistakes and im not looking for a perfect girlfriend, and I have tolerated alot of faults with all these girls that are normal faults that everyone has, and even through these issues with depression and low self esteem and many other ones I tried to stick with them and really give my all and try to make things work as long as possible, but it does seem I attracted quite a few girls with similar "issues" so far, i have no idea why. I am definitely very compassionate, empathic as a person, maybe that has some effect, but once I do find out about these traits or issues I don't run away, I definitely do want to work it out and put everything into trying to work it out and trying to be there for them through these issues, and try to be very patient and do everything possible for the relationship for a long time. I’m curious give the 1+ yr length of these, we’re there any warning size you think about now you glazed over. i don’t look at depression as much of an issue if they are getting treatment. I look past that. I don’t have mental health issues, I do have other medical issues that she could view as an issue that I do not. with those you have dated is there a commonality among them? Some fir whatever reason are attracted to a personality type but it don’t fit them when it comes to a LTR. 1
Ami1uwant Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 32 minutes ago, LoveComplexity said: Yes some very good points here. I mean I know dramafreezone, the first time she had a huge jealousy outburst (crying, panic, didn't want me to touch her or come near) that lasted for more than 30 minutes.. she then was very apologetic and that she is so sorry she didnt mean it etc... and I clearly said that in a relationship we need trust or this won't work.. im not her ex boyfriends nor am I her father, she needs to treat me as me.. she said yes I will... but it kept repeating itself. In terms of me continuing with them I guess maybe I have to learn how to let people go, it seems like I get to know them and we start being together, being a couple, getting feelings etc... and then when with time I get to know all these deeply rooted issues, most people would leave, but I have this sort of mentality that everyone has faults, and also that when you commit to a relationship you should give 200% and try your best for the longest possible in order to make it work, regardless of the hardships, as I was always taught that relationships have alot of hardships and bad moments also and you shoudl stick through it with your partner in order to build something that lasts for a long time... but maybe my thinking and my view on this is wrong. i think you might be the type who wants to support and want to fix it. I can understand her reaction at first because of her own biases from what she perceived from father/ brother/friend/ lover previously. At some point you need to saw no. 1
dramafreezone Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, LoveComplexity said: Yes some very good points here. I mean I know dramafreezone, the first time she had a huge jealousy outburst (crying, panic, didn't want me to touch her or come near) that lasted for more than 30 minutes.. she then was very apologetic and that she is so sorry she didnt mean it etc... and I clearly said that in a relationship we need trust or this won't work.. im not her ex boyfriends nor am I her father, she needs to treat me as me.. she said yes I will... but it kept repeating itself. In terms of me continuing with them I guess maybe I have to learn how to let people go, it seems like I get to know them and we start being together, being a couple, getting feelings etc... and then when with time I get to know all these deeply rooted issues, most people would leave, but I have this sort of mentality that everyone has faults, and also that when you commit to a relationship you should give 200% and try your best for the longest possible in order to make it work, regardless of the hardships, as I was always taught that relationships have alot of hardships and bad moments also and you shoudl stick through it with your partner in order to build something that lasts for a long time... but maybe my thinking and my view on this is wrong. She only has her experiences to go on though. If all someone knows is abuse, and that's what's normal to them, then they can hear you say all the right things but it doesn't compute because it doesn't align with her lived experiences. In a sense the type of relationship you're describing is not possible for someone in her mindset. She doesn't know how to do what you're suggesting, and you are not qualified/trained to teach her how to help herself. *She* is the one that has to change her thought processes by dedicating herself to therapy. Some people don't want to get better. Some prefer to dwell in what a lot of us call dysfunction because that's normalcy for them and there's comfort in whatever normalcy is for us. In that sense they don't even see it as needing to get better. Others dwell in dysfunction because that negative attention they create from it is better than no attention at all. For some therapy is a lifetime commitment. Is it fair that they have to constantly be on top of their issues? No but that's life, we all have our struggles to handle. Some have more significant struggles than others. Regardless, it's still *that* person's responsibility, they have to put in the work. Relationships are a two-way street. They can't work when one person is giving 200% and the other doesn't take meaningful action to get past their trauma. Certainly there are times where one partner has to carry the weight but ideally that's balanced out over time. Also relationships with two well adjusted people can be tough at times. You add in people with serious issues, and the difficulty only multiplies. Relationships require selflessness, meaning your issues come second. How can someone be selfless when the best thing for them is focusing on themselves (like all of these women)? These women are incapable of being good partners for you or anyone else until they fix themselves. Edited May 27, 2022 by dramafreezone 1
stillafool Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Ami1uwant said: The drivers are different. 40 yr old guys who re entlupy got out of a marriage/ LTR are looking to sleep around since sex was probably an issue innthe relationship. they don’t want baggage ( like kids) There are more women than ever before who don't want kids and will not date men with kids. As far as sex goes I'm sure recently divorced women weren't exactly having mind blowing sex with their ex husbands either and are excited to have a new sex partner. Things aren't as different as one would think. 1
basil67 Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 5 hours ago, LoveComplexity said: Now I know im not perfect and also have mistakes and im not looking for a perfect girlfriend, and I have tolerated alot of faults with all these girls that are normal faults that everyone has, and even through these issues with depression and low self esteem and many other ones I tried to stick with them and really give my all and try to make things work as long as possible, but it does seem I attracted quite a few girls with similar "issues" so far, i have no idea why. Kindly, the behaviour of the women you described are not normal faults. These were women who were essentially broken and who most men quite reasonably run from. I'm a woman and was sitting here wondering why you'd try and make things work with them. I understand you value commitment and working through issues and this is a good thing, but you've lost a total of 5 or 6 years trying to make things work with women who's issues made them very bad choices. I think you'll find that many men attract women with similar issues. The difference between those men and and you is that they walk away from the dramatics. Try not to martyr yourself to lost causes. 1
chillii Posted May 27, 2022 Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, LoveComplexity said: 1. Alot of people seem very self centered and selfish, everything should be catered to their needs and so that they can get the most out of it, and it revolves around them but don't really put much thought about the other person, or willing to make big compromises about things 2. Relationships for the long haul are a commitment and getting to know someone, accepting them, learning to grow together, face difficulties... but seems like these days alot of people think a relationship is this insane high of emotions (like at the start) and that lasts forever and that there are no problems in relationship its all a smooth sail and everything is perfect, and at the first sign of things not going perfect they already want to call it quits because its too tough to deal with, they have no patience to actually try to solve things There's a lot of truth in all this. The younger gen are very different now, society is very different now. The internet and media and sm has also really messed a lot of people up and taken so much RL away from them to. l see it all with my daughters friends and all over forums to too, it's everywhere. She sees it but most of them are too trapped and unaware now, most people are or in denial. Buttt, your only 29. lt's always been hard to find the right person, that's not new. You feel the way you do well, there's still people out there that are aware and will feel the same. l'm 50s and my partner and l feel very similar about most things. Admittedly we do have a different foundation than what younger people go through now butttt, not that you'd know it see a lot of middle aged people now. Thing, is, whatever you feel or your views,see the world, the way you'd like your life to be , your relationship, marriage, future, is what you look for in a partner. lt's hard to find yep, of course it is, it's hard for anyone. Some seem to just trip over it easier than others well, that's life. Edited May 27, 2022 by chillii 1
Author LoveComplexity Posted May 28, 2022 Author Posted May 28, 2022 Yeah I get what you are saying, when I discover these things I should just love miself more and end it, it's hard because by then I'm already attached plus I feel like I would be a bad person for leaving someone like that because they are not ok, but I should change my view on this. 1
Gaeta Posted May 28, 2022 Posted May 28, 2022 Yes it's hard to find a partner nowadays and OLD is like the place where all the weirdos reunite. It is what it is. You can't change it no matter how much complaining you do about it. You learn to roll with it, or you don't use it. I have had over 200 online coffee-dates before meeting my ex, I expect it will take as much meeting/work to meet someone new compatible this time around. Till I meet someone life goes on and I make it as enjoyable as possible. Romance is one facet of your life, not all of your life. 2
glows Posted May 28, 2022 Posted May 28, 2022 6 hours ago, LoveComplexity said: Yeah I get what you are saying, when I discover these things I should just love miself more and end it, it's hard because by then I'm already attached plus I feel like I would be a bad person for leaving someone like that because they are not ok, but I should change my view on this. Just a hunch here but sometimes we stay in relationships like this with people who need a lot of 'help' because we ourselves need that support (but aren't looking for it in the right places). If you're able to seek out and develop a strong network that helps you overcome your own personal difficulties and issues, the more you may realize that it's not your place to 'help' women/people like this. Leaving may be hard, not having any contact with her may be seemingly impossible so switch focus to you. Start on the other end and with you. That means addressing your moods, feelings, difficulty concentrating, negative outlook overall and acknowledging that you may have a problem and want to change. Engage in other worthy endeavours, volunteer and give your time to your community or just be present. Go out and meet new people doing what you love, whatever that may be interest/hobby-wise. I guarantee you any and all of these exercises will have some profound effect on the way you view yourself and others, the way you may approach relationships. You may develop friendships too in the process that are much healthier and learn ways to avoid problem individuals and situations that don't help you in the long run and where it's best to steer clear. In the meantime seek help from your doctor, therapists, try counselling even if it's one or two sessions to start to get a feel of what it's like. It's you saying that you want to do things differently and have committed yourself to changing. In reality, nothing she says or does (your ex) matters at this point. The one person who needs the help and support is you so start taking care of yourself better instead of projecting that onto someone else.
basil67 Posted May 28, 2022 Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, LoveComplexity said: Yeah I get what you are saying, when I discover these things I should just love miself more and end it, it's hard because by then I'm already attached plus I feel like I would be a bad person for leaving someone like that because they are not ok, but I should change my view on this. The different behaviours you've described probably need to be addressed in different ways. First, let's look at those with anger or jealousy issues. Assuming you've looked at what they are mad about and you're comfortable with your choices, then you make it clear that you are not willing to accept being treated this way in a relationship and if it happens again, you're out. And you must mean it! If you've given them a warning that this is unacceptable and they do it again, you can leave with your head high. Alternately, if they are raging and you realise that your own actions probably did play a part in it, then you need to both apologise but also discuss more productive ways to address and issue. And let's face it, we all make mistakes - but in a relationship our partners need to know how to tell us we've upset them in a manner which isn't going to make things worse. The depression is different. And I write this as someone who suffers depression - it's not unreasonable to expect a person to do what they can to be mentally healthy. If you care about the person, make your observations about their mental health known. You can tell them how their depression affects you. Ask them to seek help. If they don't seek help, start making noises about the relationship becoming untenable....but if they absolutely refuse to seek help, it's OK to walk away. There is another option that they are doing everything they can but the mental health issues are very complex. In this case, you can only do your best, but ultimately decide if you can live with it. Edited May 28, 2022 by basil67
Author LoveComplexity Posted May 28, 2022 Author Posted May 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, basil67 said: The different behaviours you've described probably need to be addressed in different ways. First, let's look at those with anger or jealousy issues. Assuming you've looked at what they are mad about and you're comfortable with your behaviour, then you make it clear that you are not willing to accept being treated this way in a relationship and if it happens again, you're out. And you must mean it! If you've given them a warning that this is unacceptable and they do it again, you can leave with your head high. The depression is different. And I write this as someone who suffers depression - it's not unreasonable to expect a person to do what they can to be mentally healthy. If you care about the person, make your observations about their mental health known. You can tell them how their depression affects you. Ask them to seek help. If they don't seek help, start making noises about the relationship becoming untenable....but if they absolutely refuse to seek help, it's OK to walk away. There is another option that they are doing everything they can but the mental health issues are very complex. In this case, you can only do your best, but ultimately decide if you can live with it. Your right! I did make it clear after the anger and jealousy issues that the relationship won't be able to function and work without trust or without the outbursts etc... Only that when it happened again I said the same thing.. and again... and keep putting up with it. Next time I will do exactly as you say, make it clear it won't work like this and next time it happens I'm out, and if it happens I do it. 1
mortensorchid Posted May 29, 2022 Posted May 29, 2022 This is the world now. Period. You're in it for the long haul. Unfortunately there are people who think that they are so unique but they are so not, it's stereotypical man / woman relationships and attitudes clashing with one another. What to do? If I had the answer I would tell you but alas, I don't have it.
Alpacalia Posted May 29, 2022 Posted May 29, 2022 (edited) Sometimes identifying your ex's shortcomings can be worthwhile. I would also suggest that instead of seeking the right match, try to become the right match for you and the right person will be drawn to you. People won't do for you what you don't do for them. Uninspiring, lazy, or pessimistic people are seldom sought out. You set up your own standards for the person you want. You need to reflect the type of person you expect. If you want to attract a healthy and fit individual, then you must possess and reflect that characteristic. When you start to reflect the characteristics that you look for in a partner, you are more likely to find a suitable match. Edited May 29, 2022 by Alpacalia 1
Woggle Posted May 29, 2022 Posted May 29, 2022 The whole climate and vibe these is not conducive to finding a healthy relationship at all.
smackie9 Posted May 29, 2022 Posted May 29, 2022 On 5/27/2022 at 7:58 AM, Ami1uwant said: The issue on being pefect…. inlike say 40 years ago where a female needed a male to be the provider because mens careers tended to outplay women. Now women are working and earning their own so they don’t need a man to take care of them. As a result they feel they don’t want to settle on someone. They are looking firthst perfect match passing over the 80-90% matches ahhh excuse me? 40 years ago I didn't have or want a man to "take care of me", nor did any of my friends. We all were working , or going to college and getting ready for our careers. You have the wrong decade hun. Women were having careers and being financially independent in the 1960's. A big thanks to the invention of the pill, gave women the choice to do what we wanted so there was a lack of any urgency to get married. And yes with us having more finical stability meant we didn't have to stay in abusive relationships/marriages. "Settling" for someone for the purpose of financial support is not a healthy thing now is it? IMO all this did was level out the playing field. But as they say a poor musician always blames his instrument. The problem doesn't lie with women, it lies within you. 3
Ami1uwant Posted May 29, 2022 Posted May 29, 2022 3 hours ago, smackie9 said: ahhh excuse me? 40 years ago I didn't have or want a man to "take care of me", nor did any of my friends. We all were working , or going to college and getting ready for our careers. You have the wrong decade hun. Women were having careers and being financially independent in the 1960's. A big thanks to the invention of the pill, gave women the choice to do what we wanted so there was a lack of any urgency to get married. And yes with us having more finical stability meant we didn't have to stay in abusive relationships/marriages. "Settling" for someone for the purpose of financial support is not a healthy thing now is it? IMO all this did was level out the playing field. But as they say a poor musician always blames his instrument. The problem doesn't lie with women, it lies within you. sure there were some women who did go to College and had careers. The vast majority the focus still was on kids and getting married. My parents got married in 1964 in there early 20s. My mom went to college. She didn’t finish. She supported my dad after they met where she worked early in their marriage while he finished college and got a job. For a decade+ she stayed home and had kids until they were full time in school, then she went to work. there was still many jobs you can do without college. This changed in the early 1980s when, because of baby boomers and factories closing they used degrees as a pre-screener on career jobs. today more women than men are graduating with degrees. over that time women disassociated marriage to financial/ life success it became a choice rather than a societal requirement. research has shown differences in male and female brains in thinking. One of these areas is in perspective, decision making, and choosing.
Lauriebell82 Posted May 31, 2022 Posted May 31, 2022 I believe that as you get older it becomes harder to find a partner with more desirable relationship qualities like you mentioned due to the fact that most of those people have already found committed partnerships and/or marriage by the age of 29-30 and are better at maintaining those relationships. What is left in the dating market is people with insecure attachment styles or people with baggage from previous relationships who aren't as skilled at making relationships work, so they tend to come in and out of relationships more regularly. But..people who are more relationship desirable DO tend to come back into the dating market (their spouse leaves them or passes away) but they don't tend to stay there very long. Because they are better at attracting more secure partners and maintaining those partnerships. So they tend to only be available for a very short time period.
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