How long to try if they don't seem to see past your looks?

May 24, 2022

5 minutes ago, glows said:

It was a couple of dates fortunately and a handful of weeks. I'd strongly suggest a little more perspective and playing less of a victim in this. I get the feeling that you enjoy companionship and being in a relationship, tend to miss this quite a lot when it's gone regardless of how poor that company is. Keep screening better and let go earlier. Don't hang on just because it's an available person to offer warm texts often.

Thank you, yes this is true. I get attached to people easily, which gets further enhanced by all the chatting outside of seeing each other. This guy was so, so nice that I really don’t know which version of him was real. The nice person I came to know over 6 weeks, or the monster that suddenly got unleashed last night for no apparent reason.

At this point I’m still missing the good times/texts more than I’m processing the horrific abuse that he thrust upon me. With time, as I stop missing him the latter will help me never want to think about him again.

Edited May 24, 2022 by babybrowns

May 24, 2022

6 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

Thank you, yes this is true. I get attached to people easily, which gets further enhanced by all the chatting outside of seeing each other. This guy was so, so nice that I really don’t know which version of him was real. The nice person I came to know over 6 weeks, or the monster that got unleashed last night for no apparent reason.

At this point I’m still missing the good times/texts more than I’m processing the horrific abuse that he thrust upon me. With time, as I stop missing him the latter will help me never want to think about him again.

If you can, go back to your earlier screening process. You gave this guy a chance but stayed too long. He had some red flags early on and one thing that did stand out to me was you driving three hours to see him each time. It's too one-sided. If you're going to date that far out, make sure the other person has a license and a vehicle (and uses it half the time or is willing to meet you half way). You doing on all the driving is investing too much time and effort into a situation. Emotionally you're also at odds because you're texting quite a bit.

Take your time a bit more, date closer to home and avoid texting so much. Too much texting morning, noon and night gives the illusion that you know one another.

May 24, 2022

Kindly, the way he reacted to you spending time with your friends and not paying enough attention to him was the sign that the he is an abuser. It's why I was pushing so hard for you to stop seeing him. As always though, it's so much easier to recognise when you're not involved.

Also, both versions of him are real. I'm sure he's a real sweet dude when all is going his way, but when things don't go his way he's abusive. However, when it comes to abuse, even 10% abusive should outweigh 90% good.

May 24, 2022

3 minutes ago, glows said:

If you can, go back to your earlier screening process. You gave this guy a chance but stayed too long. He had some red flags early on and one thing that did stand out to me was you driving three hours to see him each time. It's too one-sided. If you're going to date that far out, make sure the other person has a license and a vehicle (and uses it half the time or is willing to meet you half way). You doing on all the driving is investing too much time and effort into a situation. Emotionally you're also at odds because you're texting quite a bit.

Take your time a bit more, date closer to home and avoid texting so much. Too much texting morning, noon and night gives the illusion that you know one another.

Thank you, yes you’re very right. It was particularly cruel when he sent me this text message during his barrage of abuse:

“And wow, when you said you were driving up to see me, I expected you to atleast have a nice car! What kind of piece of **** is that Really you couldn’t get anything nicer than that??”

From someone who doesn’t even know how to drive, whom I had even offered to teach, it is comical.

May 24, 2022

1 hour ago, babybrowns said:

Thanks but this is exactly it; for our first date he took me out to dinner in his neighbourhood, which we followed with a walk near the river. When I drove him home afterwards, we got quite affectionate in my car outside his house and he asked me to come into his house, which I refused since it was only the first date.

The second date was meant to be a picnic in the park near where he lives, and because parking is difficult, he said I could park on his driveway and we could walk from there. When I came into his house upon arrival, he asked if I’d like to do the lunch in his beautiful garden instead, which I agreed to. We got physically intimate after that but didn’t have sexual intercourse.

Our 3rd date which was meant to be this week, was me taking him out to dinner, somewhere near his work (I offered to go to that area).

We also had some activities planned for down the line: hiking, tennis, me teaching him how to drive.

I’m feeling a little sad at how it’s come to an abrupt end It is quite a change to go from having someone text you multiple times a day with affectionate texts for 6 weeks, to suddenly nothing.

But I know I cannot go back to someone who is so possessive, tries to control and isolate me from my friends and gets so abusive like this over minimal provocation. Let alone having this kind of behaviour when you’ve only met them twice.

Yes, it is disappointing, for sure.

Positively, the takeaways that you can draw from this are that you liked him very much but able to pick up on some red flags that led you to be concerned.

The inner voice spoke to you and you listened to it.

May 25, 2022

8 hours ago, babybrowns said:

Thank you, yes this is true. I get attached to people easily, which gets further enhanced by all the chatting outside of seeing each other. This guy was so, so nice that I really don’t know which version of him was real. The nice person I came to know over 6 weeks, or the monster that suddenly got unleashed last night for no apparent reason.

That's surreal that he went of his nut like that , God almighty there's some troubled souls out there isn't there eh.

l suppose you can just be thankful it revealed itself now .

May 25, 2022

1 hour ago, chillii said:

That's surreal that he went of his nut like that , God almighty there's some troubled souls out there isn't there eh.

l suppose you can just be thankful it revealed itself now .

Yes indeed, and with such a slight provocation at that. All I said to him was that I am concerned about his possessiveness and asked him for a few days’ space. He couldn’t handle that he was losing his grip and attempted control over me, and thus completely lost it. I’ve never had someone get so hysterical over me over nothing!

Edited May 25, 2022 by babybrowns

May 25, 2022

Oh no BB!!!

Got to admit I found the text that you copied and pasted quite triggering. Unfortunately I know them well. I’ve had a lot of them.

You met one of “Them” BB. An abuser! (Probably a narc too). Caught red handed early on. Well done you.!

The text was an example of narcissistic rage - tear you down to make himself feel powerful. I can assure you there is nothing wrong with your car BB.

What really happened is that you figured him out! How very dare you! How dare you criticise him and suggest that his behaviour is less than perfect ….

Well done BB. Truly. Don’t ever speak a word to this man again.

May 25, 2022

Another word of advice:

Please stop tormenting yourself with “why did he say this and that”. Forget the detail of what he actually said.. it’s irrelevant.

An abuser is fundamentally driven by the need for power and control. If they feel like they are losing their control they will say and do anything to get it back. Your situation is a classic example,

Also I’ll tell you why you miss him already..

An abuser needs a victim, a willing one! In order to a victim they need to hook somebody - ie get them addicted. This hooking process (usually in the form of love bombing) starts from the very first word/ interaction.

That’s why you miss him BB. You’re already a little bit addicted. The good news is that your not fully - you can easily break this by staying away from him. Do not interact with him again under any circumstances.

Doesn’t matter that you only had 2 dates. Everything runs very fast with these people. Just how they like it.

May 25, 2022

37 minutes ago, Calmandfocused said:

Please stop tormenting yourself with “why did he say this and that”. Forget the detail of what he actually said.. it’s irrelevant.

I agree and if you must ask, ask him right after he does it. He's the only one who knows why he does and says certain things.

May 25, 2022

10 hours ago, babybrowns said:

I’ve never had someone get so hysterical over me over nothing!

And somehow I think you felt you're more worthy by him acting that way. That is not the kind of attention you need or is healthy. That's the kind of attention that eventually leads to physical abuse. Abusers can sense the type of women who aren't used to healthy attention and play on that.

Edited May 25, 2022 by stillafool

May 25, 2022

4 hours ago, stillafool said:

And somehow I think you felt you're more worthy by him acting that way. That is not the kind of attention you need or is healthy. That's the kind of attention that eventually leads to physical abuse. Abusers can sense the type of women who aren't used to healthy attention and play on that.

If your assumption were true, would it not reflect in me trying to get this man back after the hysterical rage? Are you actually saying I liked it and am craving more of it? Where on Earth are you getting that from? I started this thread before that happened, when I was already having doubts about him.

During his rage, I was the one who ended it. I wished him all the best, and he then blocked me.

Edited May 25, 2022 by babybrowns

May 25, 2022

5 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

Oh no BB!!!

Got to admit I found the text that you copied and pasted quite triggering. Unfortunately I know them well. I’ve had a lot of them.

You met one of “Them” BB. An abuser! (Probably a narc too). Caught red handed early on. Well done you.!

The text was an example of narcissistic rage - tear you down to make himself feel powerful. I can assure you there is nothing wrong with your car BB.

What really happened is that you figured him out! How very dare you! How dare you criticise him and suggest that his behaviour is less than perfect ….

Well done BB. Truly. Don’t ever speak a word to this man again.

Thank you so much for your posts CalmandFocused. Yes, yesterday I was even looking up ‘narcissistic rage’ since this struck many chords with what I knew it to be!

Upon hardly any stimulus or provocation, the only one being him seeing he could no longer control me or my life, he lit up like a raging fire and made a series of sharp and personal attacks. Typical narc!! I have attracted a few of those in my dating life.

This one was very good at hiding the other aspects of it all this time, these past 6 weeks when things were “good”, No gaslighting and no putting down other people, else I’d have spotted it much sooner than the night of this sudden intense rage 48 hours ago 🥹 Might have been covert

Edited May 25, 2022 by babybrowns

May 25, 2022

14 hours ago, babybrowns said:

Yes indeed, and with such a slight provocation at that. All I said to him was that I am concerned about his possessiveness and asked him for a few days’ space. He couldn’t handle that he was losing his grip and attempted control over me, and thus completely lost it. I’ve never had someone get so hysterical over me over nothing!

Telling a possessive/controlling/potentially abusive person that you're concerned about their possessiveness and asking for a break is not "nothing". It's actually a highly risky move and with the wrong person could put you in danger.

For them it will be seriously triggering because you're criticising them AND they are losing control. If you're ever with someone like this again, you're better off doing the most tactful exit you can. Something more like "I think you're a great person, but I know that I can't give you the time you need. I'm ending this so that you can find the perfect girl"

May 25, 2022

13 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Telling a possessive/controlling/potentially abusive person that you're concerned about their possessiveness and asking for a break is not "nothing". It's actually a highly risky move and with the wrong person could put you in danger.

For them it will be seriously triggering because you're criticising them AND they are losing control. If you're ever with someone like this again, you're better off doing the most tactful exit you can. Something more like "I think you're a great person, but I know that I can't give you the time you need. I'm ending this so that you can find the perfect girl"

Very true, only that remember I had not experienced any abuse prior to me asking for space; only possessiveness. I didn’t realise he’d completely lose his rag and go into a trance of hysterical rage. Part of me wondered whether he realised how possessive he was being before I asked for the space; I was looking at this more innocently than it turned out to be.

The thing that is just really unclear to me is, were those 6 weeks of him being a nice guy the real him in any sense? Or was that all just a mask? It was literally Jekyll and Hyde when he flipped and went on a rampage of abuse that night - way too different to who he was being the past 6 weeks for me to believe that his genuine and kind nature that I got to know was real. That’s the sad thing here for me really

Edited May 25, 2022 by babybrowns

May 25, 2022

But his degree of possessiveness was abusive. You were experiencing abuse

May 25, 2022

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

But his degree of possessiveness was abusive. You were experiencing abuse

I had never been in this specific situation before and thus did not know enough about it to equate it to such.

May 25, 2022

18 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

I started this thread before that happened, when I was already having doubts about him

All due respect, baby browns (and a reality check), you ALWAYS have doubts about every single guy in almost every possible way.

I would say there is some truth to what stillafool has said because of the title you named this thread indicates it. You both "like it" and and doubt it You seem to be constantly searching for meaning and attributing meaning incorrectly when perhaps your deduction is wrong or there is no significant meaning to be attributed. I'm not even sure that your "perspective" on the events of this guy are not through a heavily, biased and overly suspicious lens and conformation bias. IMO, you can't just place all the blame of what happened on this one on this guy (perhaps he is some of the things you've deduced though I don't imagine many people reacting well to being called possessive and some lecture and a call for a break 2 dates in either so take some responsibility on that part).

As far as the "gorgeous girl" comment and worries about him not being able to "see past your looks", I think it's a term of endearment--again depends on your perspective. Even if you are a gorgeous girl, I wouldn't take it that literally that he's fixated on your looks. Sounds like he was happy and sweet on you, maybe a little too invested or pushy-but he wouldn't be the only one or the first one to do that. Anyway, if you don't like the term, and willing to throw a relationship away (going back to the beginning) then that is exactly what you should have done. Too extreme but whatever. Instead you parcel it into a huge debate and then create a huge negative perception and doubt in your mind which leads to the downfall of the relationship--we've seen this story before. Might he have been not the right guy for you? Sure. Might he have been normal and a good guy? Also possible. Coping skills/communication skills---if we are to believe even the littlest parts of your story don't seem that great. And honestly yours could use improvement too. Reality check on 2 dates in, is that a guy is probably going to be more looks/surface-focus because he doesn't KNOW you that well. I would guess he's objectifying you to an extent based on the only information he has so far. As women do to men all the time (though on other factors typically) and I'd be surprised if it didn't happen in this case as well. Two dates in you only know each other on a surface level really.

Why do i get the feeling that he'd have been d*mned if he did call you "gorgeous girl" and d*mned if he didn't. Same with asking what you are up to. If he didn't ask, you would say he seems "uninterested"/doesn't care enough/never asks about me. You've got to set yourself up to win by looking for more of the positives and interpreting the same event such as an innocuous question in a positive way. Imagine being on side where someone is responding to the doubts and suspicions you have had about them.

May 26, 2022

Agree with @Versacehottieand @stillafool

Just to add, it seems that the worry you felt about him stemmed from your belief that he was only interested in you physically and sexually.

The way he responded to your request for space was pretty nasty.

As hurt as you may feel by his berating you afterwards, and rightfully so, it would not be fair to paint him a horny, testosterone-fueled monster as you implied earlier.

There was clearly some attraction between you and him when you visited his house to the extent that you became somewhat intimate with him.

Even so, it did seem as though he was trying to get the dates closer to home.

Still, you kind of have to separate those two issues.

A slower pace may be preferable for you because you don't know the person you're dating very well after two dates. In addition, when you add sex, things can get quite complicated.

Maybe not always, but often. Particularly if you have a tendency to form attachments more quickly.

Take your time with your dates. It is possible that these things may have shown up at a much earlier stage and it would have been easier to cut them off at the first sign of trouble.

May 26, 2022

1 hour ago, babybrowns said:

Part of me wondered whether he realised how possessive he was being before I asked for the space

Respectfully, you had been on two dates with the man. You should still be talking about your families, what you do in your spare time, and what your plans are for the summer. He shouldn’t be possessive about anything at this stage in the relationship - you were not actually in a “relationship” yet.

May 26, 2022

Clearly the guy is some kind of a bottom feeder. You got wind of that, evidently, before you ever met him, per your prior thread.

I've contributed to a thread of yours before and it had a very similar trajectory to this one, actually. That guy didn't appear to be an abuser, but he was someone you didn't know, had no real relationship with, and in a few days you were involved in a complicated drama that became very unpleasant.

It appears to be a pattern. Why do you think you create these situations?

May 26, 2022

4 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

It appears to be a pattern. Why do you think you create these situations?

I agree, and echo the same question.

May 26, 2022

8 hours ago, babybrowns said:

I had never been in this specific situation before and thus did not know enough about it to equate it to such.

Just learn from it and move on. You had mentioned getting attached too early. Be careful not to be attached to people like this.

May 26, 2022

9 hours ago, babybrowns said:

who he was being the past 6 weeks for me to believe that his genuine and kind nature.

And therein lies the problem. 6 weeks of stalling and chitchat with someone you hadn't met yet.

This led you to a fantasy image of who you wanted him to be rather than who he turned out to be.

However within 2 in person dates, you were able to discern what a weirdo he really was.

That's the key lesson here. Stop the extended chitchatting and faux rapport and cut to the chase and meet in person ASAP.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Wiseman2

May 26, 2022

12 hours ago, babybrowns said:

Typical narc!! I have attracted a few of those in my dating life.

It is worth exploring to understand why you are drawn to men with these sorts of tendencies. It may well be that you leave once they fully reveal their true selves, but you should examine the common themes that attract you initially. Particularly since you seem to invest quite early, it would be to your benefit to make better initial choices, so you avoid some of the disappointment that comes from discovering personality flaws after you've already become intimate or gotten your hopes up.

For any of us, when there is a common/recurring theme in our lives, we have to look at our own behaviors and patterns, as these are what is holding us back.

Edited May 26, 2022 by introverted1

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