How long to try if they don't seem to see past your looks?

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, babybrowns said:

 this guy already seems a little possessive. 

Why bother continuing when all you're seeing is red flags everywhere and feel ignored in person when you are talking to him? 

This isn't about your looks at all . it's about chitchatting too much and for too long before meeting in person, creating false intimacy with that, as well as getting too sexual on date 2.

Stop all the chitchatting and slow down on the sexual bit. He's Just Not That Into You if he seems bored in your company.

[salparadise]

10 hours ago, babybrowns said:

He didn’t like it when I met up with my gay male best friend of 10 years, since I “seem to see him a lot”.

This poor schmuck is doomed. There's nothing worse than getting run over by the train. 

So did he actually object to you spending time with your gay friend? You have seem to see him a lot in quotes, so I assume that's exactly what he said, which doesn't quite rise to the level of objection or expressing dissatisfaction. But you're the only one who knows what kind of inflection was there and how it felt. I just wonder if you could be misreading how he meant it. Two dates is way too soon to be possessive, and over something that isn't even threatening. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by salparadise

[Eternal Sunshine]

I was in a relationship like this for 8 months. I stayed that long because the guy before him was constantly telling me what's wrong with my physical appearance. So that new guy was refreshingly into me in that way.

As I got to know him better, it wasn't that he didn't like me as more than that. There just wasn't much substance to him. He had no need for deep conversations on almost any level. I met his family, and they were all like that, only making superficial small talk with each other. I tried introducing different topics, current events, anything to generate a deeper discussion. His responses were always to agree with me and generic phrases, he never added any content. I guess you could say that there wasn't an intellectual connection so I was never able to fall for him. He was very attractive though and nice guy too.

[introverted1]

16 hours ago, babybrowns said:

So far, he’s the nicest person I have ever dated

What exactly is nice about him?  I'm not challenging his niceness, just want to understand what leads you to declare him the "nicest person you have ever dated."

16 hours ago, babybrowns said:

even though we’ve not yet had sexual intercourse, we did get quite close to it on our second date.

There's nothing wrong with intercourse on the second date.  And there's nothing wrong with waiting,  But it doesn't make sense to let things progress to "quite close" to intercourse (oral sex, sounds like) on the second date and then wonder why you haven't built emotional or intellectual bonds.

11 hours ago, babybrowns said:

What I find a little weird though, is that this guy already seems a little possessive. He’s often checking who I’m seeing on a night when I’m not with him, whether it’s a “friend” or someone else. He didn’t like it when I met up with my gay male best friend of 10 years, since I “seem to see him a lot”.

Assuming this is true and not an embellishment on your part, this is what you should be concerned with.  A guy you've been on 2 dates with shouldn't be checking on your actions or disliking it when you spend time with friends. It wouldn't be a good sign no matter how many dates you'd had. Don't mistake control for caring; they are not the same.

Edited May 23, 2022 by introverted1

[dramafreezone]

21 hours ago, babybrowns said:

Hello all,

I have met a lovely man online. He’s 34, I’m 32. I’ve met him twice, after talking for 4 weeks (I was abroad and then fell ill, all through which he patiently waited). So far, he’s the nicest person I have ever dated and has demonstrated consistent enthusiasm.

A problem that is putting me off a little however, is that he seems to only appreciate the way I look but not much else. The best word I can use to describe the way I feel is ‘objectified’. 

I do hold physical attraction towards him too, and even though we’ve not yet had sexual intercourse, we did get quite close to it on our second date. He didn’t push me to have sex, and when I told him my feelings on needing to know a guy for longer first, he said he’s very willing to wait.

But there are very strong signs that so far he likes me only for my physical appearance. One of these are that he mostly refers to me as “gorgeous girl” rather than using my name.

Currently, I feel like a paper doll around this man and it doesn’t matter what I say or do; he only seems to see the outside. As a deep person, I do feel reduced to far below what I am when I’m with him or talking to him and it’s giving me no pleasure from spending time with him. I need to connect on more than just a physical level with someone.

Having said that, I do like how affectionate he is; my ex partner of 3 years wasn’t very into me at all and at times displayed very little affection whereas I always craved it. Having it so much from this man, is a nice contrast.

Since I have only met this man twice, and I like many things about him, I am intending to keep seeing him a couple more times or so to see whether we can develop an emotional connection as well as a physical one. I am making suggestions for dates which don’t provide an easy platform for making out but rather to have conversations. 

I have expressed my feelings to him a few times in that I want him to get to know me more, rather than focus on the outer shell. He says “ofcourse he wants to get to know me more”, but naturally the proof will be in the pudding.

I am just wondering if anyone who has been in this situation can provide any advice, such as, how long to wait? Perhaps when we get to know each other more, it’ll be different and we’ll start to feel the emotional connection more? I don’t want to let this one go so easily because I do like many attributes about him, atleast that’s how I currently feel.

Well, if you feel objectified, then no one can tell you not to feel objectified.

If the worst thing he's doing is saying "gorgeous girl" then that seems kind of cheesy from my point of view but not intended to make you feel like a sex object (in my opinion).  He's trying to make you feel good about yourself.  I know women that love to be talked to that way but if that's not your thing then tell him you don't like it.

Most guys connect through the physical first.  I'm that way, my friends are that way and the majority of other men that I've known as aquaintances are similar.  We tend to fall in love through our eyes and then the emotional connection comes later.  There are some guys out there that are very emotionally available.  If that's your cup of tea then maybe one of them would be a better fit for you.  I would say emotionally availability is uncommon with men early on, and there are several reasons for that.

Emotional connection with humans is natural over time though.  If I brought some random, law-abiding man to you and you were forced to live with him for a year, you would probably develop some affection for him.  That's just how we are as humans, emotional connection develops over time.   That said you can't speed up the rate at which *he* connects with you, and he may never meet your expectation for emotional connection.  But it's my estimation that you're attracted to this guy precisely because he's not emotionally available.

Edited May 23, 2022 by dramafreezone

[flitzanu]

On 5/22/2022 at 12:51 PM, babybrowns said:

 

 I don’t want to let this one go so easily because I do like many attributes about him, atleast that’s how I currently feel.

 

such as?  you mentioned texting you, "making future plans" and playing sports.  what else is it that is so endearing that you're into about this guy? 

(also aside from the weird jealousy and possessiveness from later comments)

[babybrowns]

Hello all,

Thanks a lot for your useful replies. A big update I have on this now…

His possessiveness was getting very much out of hand. Some of the ways in which this manifested were:

-Trying to intercept pre-existing plans I had at the weekend to see my friends (which were not frequent anyway), so that I always see him instead of my friends. 

-Being unhappy with me even talking to my friends.

Usually I’m very good at replying to this man’s messages quickly, but occasionally when he sees I am “online” on WhatsApp but not replying to him immediately, (because I’m in the middle of a conversation with someone else), he gets mad and asks “are you there?!” 

- As I mentioned, regularly asking me what I’m doing and who I’m with, “friend” or other?  

Setting aside the fact that I have only met this man twice, I have never given this man any reason to doubt that I’m not seeing anyone else romantically. I’ve not even touched my online dating profile since meeting him. Yet he was trying to take total control of my life and trying to minimise and even eradicate any life I had outside of him. 

The possessiveness was getting very out of hand yesterday, and thus I requested to him that we please have a few days apart.

Rather than respect my feelings and wish for space, he lost his temper and went into what can only be described as a hysterical rant. The rant was based on something that’s never even come up: the wealth difference between us.

He insulted

-- How as a high school teacher, I must earn “sooo much less than him as a banker”. 

- My “small car”. Ironic since not only did he never himself learn how to drive, but I have been driving 3 hours every time to his neighbourhood to meet with him. I would even drive him home at the end of dates so that he wouldn’t have to walk home, before embarking on my own long journey back home. I had even offered to give him a driving lesson next week which he willingly accepted.

- the place I grew up: he looks down on this part of the city.

- insinuating that “my family must be of much lower ranking than his, being from this borough unlike that part of the country where his family is from”. Again ironic, since my family is made up of doctors and lawyers (not entirely to his knowledge) and his not so. He has a broken family too and has no relationship with his mother and siblings whom he dislikes, whereas I come from a strong family unit.

The rant was violent and belligerent, revealing a very different side to him than that which he had portrayed all this time. I said nothing back instead of “it’s a shame you’re not who I thought you were.” When he was finished with the insults he simply blocked me. 

Beyond his possessiveness, did I realise he had such a big mask on all this time and the sheer horrors that lurked underneath- not really.

I feel an immense sense of relief from having lost this suffocating presence in my life.

Thank you all for all your responses 

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by babybrowns

[Wiseman2]

Sorry this happened. All you can do in the future is meet sooner and avoid faux intimacy that chitchatting way too much before meeting creates.

Keep it simple. After a couple of messages, meet for a brief coffee/drink. Decide if you want to meet again.

Avoid these protracted and unnessary text chats. Dating and relationships are in person events.

[babybrowns]

Just to add something else here, which makes it even more bewildering that he would abuse me about our differences in wealth. Much before this big episode yesterday, we were arranging our 3rd date. I enthusiastically said that I wanted to treat him to a nice dinner to thank him for the nice dinner and picnic lunch he gave me on our first and second dates, and I had made a reservation for later this week. 

He was excited but had said “you don’t have to pay!” But I insisted that I’d like to.
I even told him that I had got him a little nice gift from my recent weekend abroad, which I was excited to give him upon seeing him next.

Not once, in all the time we have known each other, as an issue of a wealth difference between us ever come up. He has boasted about his wealth at times and what he owns etc, but I am not one to boast much about my own possessions. When he would make these brags I didn’t respond in a ‘well I’ve also got a xyz’ way, at the same time neither did I act like I was super impressed; so didn’t give him the reaction I think he was hoping for. I just changed the subject at those times and tried to start conversations about healthier matters.

The one thing I did tell him about my ‘wealth status’ a few weeks ago where he made a bit of an inappropriate joke,  was that I own a house in neighbourhood X,  {which is known to be the richest in the capital}, and all he said was “aww you must be so proud of yourself. Well done  ”. But he would keep bragging about himself owning this and that.

It is honestly beyond comprehension why he should give me a tirade of abuse about his perceived differences in our financial status, a completely isolated and unrelated matter when I simply asked for a few days’ space due to his possessiveness. 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by babybrowns

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, babybrowns said:

  I simply asked for a few days’ space due to his possessiveness. 

It's not a relationship after 2 dates. So relationship talks and space and playing games is a waste of your time.

Know when to cut your losses. []

Stop the relationship talks and slow down on the sexual activity. It was 2 dates! Yet you're overinvolved and overinvested. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Rude

[babybrowns]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

 

Know when to cut your losses. In this case, when he seemed bored to death of your conversation and got sexual on date 2.

Stop the relationship talks and slow down on the sexual activity. It was 2 dates! Yet you're overinvolved and overinvested. 

The reason we got sexual on date 2 is that I was at his house and he couldn’t get his hands off me. We were supposed to go for a picnic, but he said I could park at his place since he lives next to the park.

And it is strange that you reach the conclusion you seem to have if you actually read my posts on this thread. I’m not the one who got over-invested here- he was. I’m the one that wanted distance, he’s the one that couldn’t let go of his firm grasp of me until I forced it.

And just a word for the ‘Wise’, when a man gets overly sexual too quickly it has nothing to do with the level of boredom with conversation. It’s because of a high level of testosterone and being a lustful excited man.

Edited May 24, 2022 by babybrowns

[Alpacalia]

In the above conversation, you stated that you needed a bit of space and he seems to have made those remarks in response. He did not reply in kind based on what he took as a rejection. Your last comment further irritated him, so he blocked you.

Nevertheless, it is a bit much for two dates.

12 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

And just a word for the ‘Wise’, when a man gets overly sexual too quickly it has nothing to do with the level of boredom with conversation. It’s because of a high level of testosterone and being a lustful excited man.

But you reciprocated OP. That doesn't fall on him entirely. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Alpacalia

[babybrowns]

9 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

In the above conversation, you stated that you needed a bit of space and he seems to have made those remarks in response. He did not reply in kind based on what he took as a rejection. Your last comment further irritated him, so he blocked you.

Nevertheless, it is a bit much for two dates.

Have I got it right, you are condoning going on an irrelevant and unrelated rant about wealth differences when someone asks for space based on a pathological level of possessiveness?

[Alpacalia]

5 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

Have I got it right, you are condoning going on an irrelevant and unrelated rant about wealth differences when someone asks for space based on a pathological level of possessiveness?

Where did I say I condone it?

Look, if he was too possessive and you disliked the fact that he did not "feel enough of an emotional connection with you" after two dates then why entertain the idea of going out with him again?

Edited May 24, 2022 by Alpacalia

[Wiseman2]

25 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

 he couldn’t get his hands off me. when a man gets overly sexual too quickly it has nothing to do with the level of boredom with conversation. It’s because of a high level of testosterone and being a lustful excited man.

It's best not to make date 2 an in-home date and let things evolve slowly. And no, testosterone has nothing to do with being a grabby horndog, it has to do with lack of respect. No offense but that theory is dangerous. You do not have to let men paw you up because they have Y chromosomes.

[ExpatInItaly]

When you need space from a guy you’ve seen twice in your life….just cut it off.  Don’t request space - just recognize that it’s not the right guy for you and walk away.

It’s best that this is done, in any event. He sounds unstable. 

[stillafool]

3 hours ago, babybrowns said:

The possessiveness was getting very out of hand yesterday, and thus I requested to him that we please have a few days apart.

I don't understand this, if the possessiveness was getting out of hand why didn't you just tell him you don't like it and to stop rather than ask for a few days apart?  

3 hours ago, babybrowns said:

The rant was violent and belligerent, revealing a very different side to him than that which he had portrayed all this time. I said nothing back instead of “it’s a shame you’re not who I thought you were.” When he was finished with the insults he simply blocked me. 

Why didn't you at this point leave and tell him "I don't want to see you again", instead of sitting there taking his abuse and letting him be the one to block you.  When are women going to start using their voices.

[Alpacalia]

Yes, I concur.

Take the first few dates away from home, and don't ever feel rushed physically. 

Let him take you out. No coming over and making everything house-house-house all the time. Get out and find an interesting activity to do such as golf, dancing, poetry readings, or psychic readings.  For the moment, forget about the home dates.

[glows]

Hindsight is 20/20 and you likely wanted to get to know him more but practice being more assertive. I agree with Expat on blocking someone like that instead of asking for space. He sounds uncouth and badly mannered. You'll have to watch for individuals who are materialistic or on a completely different wavelength and don't discuss details like property or what you own early on. Excuse yourself from the conversation and say that you're not a match and wish that person well. 

I'm sorry you had to listen to this drivel.

[babybrowns]

8 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

Yes, I concur.

Take the first few dates away from home, and don't ever feel rushed physically. 

Let him take you out. No coming over and making everything house-house-house all the time. Get out and find an interesting activity to do such as golf, dancing, poetry readings, or psychic readings.  For the moment, forget about the home dates.

Thanks but this is exactly it; for our first date he took me out to dinner in his neighbourhood, which we followed with a walk near the river. When I drove him home afterwards, we got quite affectionate in my car outside his house and he asked me to come into his house, which I refused since it was only the first date.

The second date was meant to be a picnic in the park near where he lives, and because parking is difficult, he said I could park on his driveway and we could walk from there. When I came into his house upon arrival, he asked if I’d like to do the lunch in his beautiful garden instead, which I agreed to. We got physically intimate after that but didn’t have sexual intercourse.

Our 3rd date which was meant to be this week, was me taking him out to dinner,  somewhere near his work (I offered to go to that area). 

We also had some activities planned for down the line: hiking, tennis, me teaching him how to drive.

I’m feeling a little sad at how it’s come to an abrupt end   It is quite a change to go from having someone text you multiple times a day with affectionate texts for 6 weeks, to suddenly nothing. 
 

But I know I cannot go back to someone who is so possessive, tries to control and isolate me from my friends and gets so abusive like this over minimal provocation. Let alone having this kind of behaviour when you’ve only met them twice. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by babybrowns

[babybrowns]

9 hours ago, stillafool said:

I don't understand this, if the possessiveness was getting out of hand why didn't you just tell him you don't like it and to stop rather than ask for a few days apart?  

Why didn't you at this point leave and tell him "I don't want to see you again", instead of sitting there taking his abuse and letting him be the one to block you.  When are women going to start using their voices.

I had just grown quite fond of him over the 6 weeks we’d been talking, and wasn’t ready to end it. Hence I asked for space instead.

When he then lashed out with all the abuse, I did say to him “it’s a shame you’re not the person I thought you were. All the best”.

But I didn’t block him; he took that step. I’m not ready to block him back but I will be in a few days.

[Wiseman2]

26 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

We also had some activities planned for down the line: hiking, tennis, me teaching him how to drive

Overall, you dodged a bullet. You only had 2 dates with what, unfortunately, turned out to be a weirdo.

[ExpatInItaly]

54 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

I’m feeling a little sad at how it’s come to an abrupt end   It is quite a change to go from having someone text you multiple times a day with affectionate texts for 6 weeks, to suddenly nothing. 

If memory serves, hasn't this been the case with at least one other guy before?

Apologies if I'm mixing you up wtih someone else, but I seem to recall a past thread along the same vein: some guy you hardly know (or only dated a short time) lashing out at you, and you wind up missing the attention from chatting so much beforehand  - despite you having already recognized red flags and outlining them in the thread. 

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by ExpatInItaly

[glows]

57 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

Thanks but this is exactly it; for our first date he took me out to dinner in his neighbourhood, which we followed with a walk near the river. When I drove him home afterwards, we got quite affectionate in my car outside his house and he asked me to come into his house, which I refused since it was only the first date.

The second date was meant to be a picnic in the park near where he lives, and because parking is difficult, he said I could park on his driveway and we could walk from there. When I came into his house upon arrival, he asked if I’d like to do the lunch in his beautiful garden instead, which I agreed to. We got physically intimate after that but didn’t have sexual intercourse.

Our 3rd date which was meant to be this week, was me taking him out to dinner,  somewhere near his work (I offered to go to that area). 

We also had some activities planned for down the line: hiking, tennis, me teaching him how to drive.

I’m feeling a little sad at how it’s come to an abrupt end   It is quite a change to go from having someone text you multiple times a day with affectionate texts for 6 weeks, to suddenly nothing. 
 

But I know I cannot go back to someone who is so possessive, tries to control and isolate me from my friends and gets so abusive like this over minimal provocation. Let alone having this kind of behaviour when you’ve only met them twice. 

It was a couple of dates fortunately and a handful of weeks. I'd strongly suggest a little more perspective and playing less of a victim in this. I get the feeling that you enjoy companionship and being in a relationship, tend to miss this quite a lot when it's gone regardless of how poor that company is. Keep screening better and let go earlier. Don't hang on just because it's an available person to offer warm texts often. 

[babybrowns]

Just now, ExpatInItaly said:

If memory serves, hasn't this been the case with at least one other guy before?

Apologies if I'm mixing you up wtih someone else, but I seem to recall a past thread along the same vein: some guy you hardly know (or only dated a short time) lashing out at you, and you wind up missing the attention from chatting so much beforehand. 

 

Yes it’s happened to me once before. That other person was facing going to jail for a life sentence, I’d like to think this one wasn’t!

I just find it odd how this man went on and on about a topic that was so unrelated to the matter at hand, that had never once come up before. Why he used wealth as a weapon and went hysterical with it