I don't understand online dating

[QuietRiot]

PS - I wonder seriously, that with how bad online dating is getting....should we really consider going back to real life encounters and approaches like our parents and grand parents did, either through church, volunteerism, bookstore, gym, a night class, through friends, etc?   I find that in-person interactions may be a better fit because no one can block you in real life. lol

[chillii]

1 hour ago, QuietRiot said:

There was a survey done, I think it was via OK Cupid....where they say a good chunk of the women on the site who found men attractive, like "above average" attractive, it was a rather small percentage. The rest they considered below average.

 

l'd like to see what all the women that participated actually look like themselves.

One thing l noticed back in the day on a date site was that most of the women way wayyyy over rated themselves.

 

 

 

 

[Calmandfocused]

3 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

 

There was a survey done, I think it was via OK Cupid....where they say a good chunk of the women on the site who found men attractive, like "above average" attractive, it was a rather small percentage. The rest they considered below average.

Men, however, there was a larger percentage of men who found the women on these dating sites attractive, and if not that...average-looking. And few unattractive.   From what I recall of the verbiage, there wasn't even an "average" looking guy according to women. Just above average and below-average and nothing in-between really.

Interesting! 
 

Personally I always keep the ones with the pics I find “ok” (average In other words) in with my initial screening. Why? Well this group tends to include those who are much more attractive in real life but take a bad pic. Mind you that can also go the other way too… more often that not.

Also attractiveness is subjective. I find a certain “look” very unattractive ( I won’t specify specifics to avoid offence) but some of my girlfriends love that “look”. They tend to have more success, because unfortunately for me the majority  of the guys I rule out from the offset  have “that look”.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Calmandfocused

[Calmandfocused]

2 hours ago, chillii said:

 

l'd like to see what all the women that participated actually look like themselves.

One thing l noticed back in the day on a date site was that most of the women way wayyyy over rated themselves.

 

 

 

 

I’m a woman chilli and I wholeheartedly agree with you. 
 

Doesn’t help that 80% of online users (apparently) are male so every woman by the law of averages is going to be bombarded, irrespective of what she looks like. 

That means that women then the get the confidence to aim higher ….. which tends to not to end well.   
 

For example I have a friend who is a beautiful lady inside and out. But she’ll only consider the hunks and the hunks won’t consider her. The result: perpetually single. 

 

[SumGuy]

5 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

PS - I wonder seriously, that with how bad online dating is getting....should we really consider going back to real life encounters and approaches like our parents and grand parents did, either through church, volunteerism, bookstore, gym, a night class, through friends, etc?   I find that in-person interactions may be a better fit because no one can block you in real life. lol

Trust me, back in the day when real life encounters were the only thing it wasn't easier and the selection far less...and in-person rejection far worse; much easier to be rejected via no response online.  Not that one needs to choose real life or OLD.  I never did.

Unless you don't photograph well or can't write to save your life, ones in person presentation and communication skills are rarely much better than via a curated profile or messaging.  After all the whole idea of OLD in my mind is just an easy way to connect with others who you will then meet in real life...no pen pals for me. 

One really should never need to block anyone, but alas some people can't take a hint and/or get angry when they hear no.  Trust me on this as well, know your comment was a joke but in real life you need to be even more aware of when to take a hint if one doesn't want to be labeled "that guy"...which really hampers you getting dates in real life, saw it through high school college, and any place where people fish in the pool they live in.   Of course there is always the bar or any other scene where they are complete strangers and likely never see them again...good luck with that, that is even more work than OLD.

[chillii]

7 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

Doesn’t help that 80% of online users (apparently) are male so every woman by the law of averages is going to be bombarded, irrespective of what she looks like. 

That means that women then the get the confidence to aim higher ….. which tends to not to end well.   
 

Yeah, ldk. Any women on mine back in the day had been on them yrs and were on 2 and 3 sites at once, and l could see they were usually online and usually answered emails sooo. l think that site was 50 50 easily if anything going on that and if l was to join one now, l wouldn't even bother with a site that wasn't myself.  But from all that and with the stories they all told me, it was def' no easier for women, maybe even harder actually, even for quality women, l actually felt sorry for them tbh. Those actually wanting something real anyway, and a real future with someone.

Many seemed to join up thinking the world was gonna be their oyster though, and even when they weren't even meeting anyone in RL, but they were soon humbled back a few notches. My partner tells me if she was single now no way she'd go back to all that bc she knows she just wouldn't meet anyone worthwhile, says she'd give up. She says l'd find somebody new easily but going on the yrs of being single herself beforehand she doesn't even think she could go there again. And she's not only an incredible person and partner but also a stunner. So l don't put much into the assumptions people tend to have at first myself. So from what l saw and heard even see in forums like LS and single women l know in RL, if a person of whichever is looking for something real , lasting, a real future , it's hard for anyone really.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by chillii

[QuietRiot]

14 hours ago, SumGuy said:

Trust me, back in the day when real life encounters were the only thing it wasn't easier and the selection far less...and in-person rejection far worse; much easier to be rejected via no response online.  Not that one needs to choose real life or OLD.  I never did.

Unless you don't photograph well or can't write to save your life, ones in person presentation and communication skills are rarely much better than via a curated profile or messaging.  After all the whole idea of OLD in my mind is just an easy way to connect with others who you will then meet in real life...no pen pals for me. 

One really should never need to block anyone, but alas some people can't take a hint and/or get angry when they hear no.  Trust me on this as well, know your comment was a joke but in real life you need to be even more aware of when to take a hint if one doesn't want to be labeled "that guy"...which really hampers you getting dates in real life, saw it through high school college, and any place where people fish in the pool they live in.   Of course there is always the bar or any other scene where they are complete strangers and likely never see them again...good luck with that, that is even more work than OLD.

 

A friend of mine from the gym does nothing but real life encounter approaches in the bar or restaurant scene here. He says he doesn't necessarily target women specifically, but will strike up conversations with anyone, regardless of gender, in his vicinity. He's become a bar regular actually. 

He said he hasn't touched online dating sites, and he has a gift of gab, and has even been a wingman with his shyer male friends that join him at these places. He's able to break the ice easily, he makes it look easy.

I guess becoming a bar/ or restaurant regular at a weekly trivia night helps.

[Alpacalia]

On 5/25/2022 at 4:23 AM, QuietRiot said:

PS - I wonder seriously, that with how bad online dating is getting....should we really consider going back to real life encounters and approaches like our parents and grand parents did, either through church, volunteerism, bookstore, gym, a night class, through friends, etc?   I find that in-person interactions may be a better fit because no one can block you in real life. lol

I'm pretty sure there is a very high percentage of people who date online experiencing some sort of problem. .

It has been a brief experience dating online, and I am thankful I've never had to block anyone or anyone blocking me (as far as I'm aware). 

I only blocked one person in my life - somebody I met in real life and had a long-term relationship with.

Sure, online dating has some potential pitfalls compared to meeting people in person, but consider that the volume of possibilities is much higher, which could mean that you can find someone you're compatible with.

 

[chillii]

Yeah l didn't have any trouble with it either and l met some very nice women. Way back in the much younger single days of 20s, l use to find parties were brilliant for meeting people, friends or women or in womens case men to l suppose. Personally l never found pubs and bars much good myself.

[Alpacalia]

Yes.

The story differs on other platforms.

Certain types of content I don't want to see in my feed, so I filter them out.

True about the pubs/bars thing, though a colleague met her husband that way 20 years ago. I guess they were lucky!

Even if online dating isn't for everyone, there are still many people who find success in it.

 

[Ami1uwant]

On 5/25/2022 at 7:23 AM, QuietRiot said:

PS - I wonder seriously, that with how bad online dating is getting....should we really consider going back to real life encounters and approaches like our parents and grand parents did, either through church, volunteerism, bookstore, gym, a night class, through friends, etc?   I find that in-person interactions may be a better fit because no one can block you in real life. lol

OLD is getting harder because you are getting a lot of bots/ dead profiles/ scammers and 15+ yrs ago there were more serious users who really wanted something. Now you are getting more people who try it out just to see they get this fantasy person who they wouldn't get.

 

if you are generally 30+ finding dates the old fashioned way is incredibly much more difficult.  It was easier in your 20s thru social groups, housemates, friends of friends, having common hang out places to meet. The job you had you didn’t care about dating coworkers.

 

when you are 30+ you have a career.  You are unlikely to date coworkers either personal reasons or work rules/ sexual harassment policy.  If you live in an apartment complex you might meet people who are your neighbors.  If you have a house, it’s unlikely to meet people who live near you. There are way to meet peop,e ypthrough places like church, volunteering, social groups for causes or interest, taking classes, random meets, etc.  even ifyou do meet someone you then have the issue of them being available to date ( coukd be involved/ married).  Then there is the divorced population you could date but then there is the children variable of matching on wanting kids.  If youare a single parent seeking you coukd use the kids to meet peop,e through si ge parents of classmates or going to kids parks and meeting other single parents.

 

[Ami1uwant]

20 hours ago, SumGuy said:

Trust me, back in the day when real life encounters were the only thing it wasn't easier and the selection far less...and in-person rejection far worse; much easier to be rejected via no response online.  Not that one needs to choose real life or OLD.  I never did.

Unless you don't photograph well or can't write to save your life, ones in person presentation and communication skills are rarely much better than via a curated profile or messaging.  After all the whole idea of OLD in my mind is just an easy way to connect with others who you will then meet in real life...no pen pals for me. 

One really should never need to block anyone, but alas some people can't take a hint and/or get angry when they hear no.  Trust me on this as well, know your comment was a joke but in real life you need to be even more aware of when to take a hint if one doesn't want to be labeled "that guy"...which really hampers you getting dates in real life, saw it through high school college, and any place where people fish in the pool they live in.   Of course there is always the bar or any other scene where they are complete strangers and likely never see them again...good luck with that, that is even more work than OLD.

Pre OLD …meeting people in your 20s was the same as today   Sure you have the inpersonnrejections.  Where you lived coukd limit the options.  At the same time because of this, people tried harder if they did meet someone.  Today if these two met online they would have been 2 and done. Back then, it was good enough first date to have a few more dates then something developed.

for those 30+ non OLD avenues are very similar as today. The difference is 25 yrs ago  people got married off younger. You didn’t have many female coworkers.  Divorces were not as common.  Dating after 30was much harder.  If you worked in an area where you had 20 something’s work till married you might have had dating options to find women thru work.

 

[Kamille]

People often expect too much from OLD. I get the sense that part of the users are lonely and believe that meeting someone will cure their loneliness. They might not have a big circle of friends, they might not be comfortable chichatting with strangers. So OLD becomes their main source for meeting people and can get very frustating very fast, reinforcing their feeling of loneliness and despair. I suspect this might be the case of the OP (who has  flown the coop, unfortunately). 

I don't know what the solution is. It's easy for someone like me, who loves meeting people, to tell introverts that they should put themselves out there. 

The best I can come up with is that they should gain perspective on OLD and not approach it from a space of vulnerability. To love oneself in spite of OLD. To address their feelings on loneliness through other means. I recognize that this is much easier said then done. 

[mark clemson]

At the risk of generalizing, despite romantic rhetoric about "following one's heart" etc, humans are visual creatures. Both men and women. Society tends to downplay and even suppress men working on their attractiveness (e.g. labeling someone a pretty boy, not "manly", etc).  But, in reality good looks are typically pretty important when establishing attraction.

This leaves men who are attractive at a significant advantage in the dating game, and a steady trickle of interested women will be showing up for these men. Women have a tendency to "follow their hearts" right to the most attractive man they can reasonably land. Certainly not always, but often enough. (And men behave similarly according to their own standards of attractiveness, although as noted above men ultimately tend to be less fussy.)

This is why I frequently advise lonely males on this site to work on their looks as best they can. If you can pull off being good looking (which to be fair can be easier said than done), it gives you a distinct edge.

I would advise men to have at least one really nice pic on their profile where they genuinely look good and to show up for a first meet looking as good as possible, so the woman doesn't feel cheated/deceived. This is easy for some men, but probably takes "work" for others.  Ideally the woman perceives you as "a catch" and will be interested in establishing a relationship with you fairly soon rather than waiting and risking losing you to someone else.

Edited May 26, 2022 by mark clemson

[SumGuy]

1 hour ago, Ami1uwant said:

Pre OLD …meeting people in your 20s was the same as today   Sure you have the inpersonnrejections.  Where you lived coukd limit the options.  At the same time because of this, people tried harder if they did meet someone.  Today if these two met online they would have been 2 and done. Back then, it was good enough first date to have a few more dates then something developed.

Not my expereince, or any different than today.  Plenty of 2 dates then done back then, only more usually if some friend said give them a chance...again no different than today.

Quote

for those 30+ non OLD avenues are very similar as today. The difference is 25 yrs ago  people got married off younger. You didn’t have many female coworkers.  Divorces were not as common.  Dating after 30was much harder.  If you worked in an area where you had 20 something’s work till married you might have had dating options to find women thru work.

Not sure where you live, but this old saw that divorce rates are rising in the US hasn't been true in the US since the 1980's.   A quick look at US census data will show the divorce rate has been declining since 1980.  25 years ago was 1997.   I've been dating since the late 70s so a bit of a longer personal experience time frame. 

I'd personally guess the rise in divorce from 1960 to 1980 was the adoption of no-fault divorce laws so people finally could get out of bad marriages without showing adultery or some other fault.  Of course I'd guess it would take time to plateau (about 18 years) as I believe a fair number of people wait to get divorced until the kids are out of the house; haven't looked for data on this just a guess.

I was prepared to believe you on median age of marriage as after all my parents got married at 22 back in the 50's and the story was my mom's family thought that was old...but they were rural in a very small town (actually so small probably doesn't even meet the criteria for town) and many got married at 18 right out of high school.  Yet decided to look it up, why go on feelings when data and facts are at hand.   If this census based data can be bleleived: https://www.infoplease.com/us/family-statistics/median-age-first-marriage-1890-2010 I'd say the media age of first marriage has not significantly changed from 1890 to 2010.

Now it does seem that fewer people are getting married at all now than in the past if found good data on this, so technically more single people out there...but single doesn't equal not taken.  Perhaps that correlates with the declining divorce rate, people are only getting married when they are more sure as they do want it to last until death do us part. 

Like a lot of this society stuff this divorce rate and age of marriage is put out there as fact but if you check the actual data it is not so.  It wouldn't really matter but people are making broad pronunciations (and at times to support another agenda) about society based on these feelings instead of facts, let alone the moral panics they like to stir up which really can mess with peoples lives.  I grew up hearing this moral panic about divorce...my take is the a**hole men were the ones most concerned (or at least the loudest) as they could no longer use the law to keep their wives from leaving their abusive a**.

My view is dating was much harder at 30+ about 25 years ago because OLD hadn't really taken off, IIRC there was still the video tape thing.  Have seen studies that support the feeling that once you get out of college your social circle and potential for new friends really shrinks.  Well not surprising when going from classes with 300 people almost all single and your age to an office with 30 people, some married, some too old, some too young, others you boss, etc. 

Now with OLD dating you are back into that environment when there are 100's or 1000s of people in your "class" and they are all single...and you know as much about these OLD people as you did sitting next to someone in a class, likely more.   The only thing you don't know is if they really look like their pictures, but in my experience 95% of women met in OLD did, or better.

So I don't think divorce or marriage had much to do with the ease or lack thereof back in the past. Based on the divorce rate alone it should be harder today, but based on the percentage married it should be easier today...but my guess is the real determinant is just the shear number of people you can meet via OLD versus on the street, in classes and in social circles...at least if you live near a metropolitan area.  Can say when I did OLD easily had 2000 hits of women that met my fairly picky criteria within 15 miles of me.  Personally though I have never been paralyzed by too much choice or FOMO.

Edited May 26, 2022 by SumGuy

[SumGuy]

7 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

 

A friend of mine from the gym does nothing but real life encounter approaches in the bar or restaurant scene here. He says he doesn't necessarily target women specifically, but will strike up conversations with anyone, regardless of gender, in his vicinity. He's become a bar regular actually. 

He said he hasn't touched online dating sites, and he has a gift of gab, and has even been a wingman with his shyer male friends that join him at these places. He's able to break the ice easily, he makes it look easy.

I guess becoming a bar/ or restaurant regular at a weekly trivia night helps.

On the last it helps immensely as it is being part of a social circle, and not just some rando.

I'm the same way about striking up conversations.  I believe this works well because when you talk to a women you may be interested in you are coming from a space of getting to know another human being and not just hitting on her.   Also you get lots of conversational practice when you talk to all and sundry.  Also I enjoy it despite being a die hard introvert.

That kind of conversation makes a huge difference in my view in putting people at ease, and it hits all the buttons of security (your are not coming across as having a sexual  agenda), self esteem (such conversation very much listens to her), connection (goes without saying when you strike up conversations to get to know people, not just get laid, you are seeking more connection than transaction) and perhaps autonomy (as you are looking to just converse with them as the broader category of person instead of the narrower category of chick to hit on, which they likely do not want to be in from the get go).

In a way it is easy, and a heck of a lot easier than when I changed how I spoke to women was interested in, because all worried about impressing them, saying the right thing, etc.   Heck if you come in with this is just another person to talk to, and open up conversation as you might with anyone, the fear of rejection can disappear, because you can't get "rejected" as you are not hitting on them.  Now part of the art of it is noticing when chemistry develops and the conversation may turn to flirting.

[Ami1uwant]

1 hour ago, SumGuy said:

Not my expereince, or any different than today.  Plenty of 2 dates then done back then, only more usually if some friend said give them a chance...again no different than today.

Not sure where you live, but this old saw that divorce rates are rising in the US hasn't been true in the US since the 1980's.   A quick look at US census data will show the divorce rate has been declining since 1980.  25 years ago was 1997.   I've been dating since the late 70s so a bit of a longer personal experience time frame. 

I'd personally guess the rise in divorce from 1960 to 1980 was the adoption of no-fault divorce laws so people finally could get out of bad marriages without showing adultery or some other fault.  Of course I'd guess it would take time to plateau (about 18 years) as I believe a fair number of people wait to get divorced until the kids are out of the house; haven't looked for data on this just a guess.

I was prepared to believe you on median age of marriage as after all my parents got married at 22 back in the 50's and the story was my mom's family thought that was old...but they were rural in a very small town (actually so small probably doesn't even meet the criteria for town) and many got married at 18 right out of high school.  Yet decided to look it up, why go on feelings when data and facts are at hand.   If this census based data can be bleleived: https://www.infoplease.com/us/family-statistics/median-age-first-marriage-1890-2010 I'd say the media age of first marriage has not significantly changed from 1890 to 2010.

Now it does seem that fewer people are getting married at all now than in the past if found good data on this, so technically more single people out there...but single doesn't equal not taken.  Perhaps that correlates with the declining divorce rate, people are only getting married when they are more sure as they do want it to last until death do us part. 

Like a lot of this society stuff this divorce rate and age of marriage is put out there as fact but if you check the actual data it is not so.  It wouldn't really matter but people are making broad pronunciations (and at times to support another agenda) about society based on these feelings instead of facts, let alone the moral panics they like to stir up which really can mess with peoples lives.  I grew up hearing this moral panic about divorce...my take is the a**hole men were the ones most concerned (or at least the loudest) as they could no longer use the law to keep their wives from leaving their abusive a**.

My view is dating was much harder at 30+ about 25 years ago because OLD hadn't really taken off, IIRC there was still the video tape thing.  Have seen studies that support the feeling that once you get out of college your social circle and potential for new friends really shrinks.  Well not surprising when going from classes with 300 people almost all single and your age to an office with 30 people, some married, some too old, some too young, others you boss, etc. 

Now with OLD dating you are back into that environment when there are 100's or 1000s of people in your "class" and they are all single...and you know as much about these OLD people as you did sitting next to someone in a class, likely more.   The only thing you don't know is if they really look like their pictures, but in my experience 95% of women met in OLD did, or better.

So I don't think divorce or marriage had much to do with the ease or lack thereof back in the past. Based on the divorce rate alone it should be harder today, but based on the percentage married it should be easier today...but my guess is the real determinant is just the shear number of people you can meet via OLD versus on the street, in classes and in social circles...at least if you live near a metropolitan area.  Can say when I did OLD easily had 2000 hits of women that met my fairly picky criteria within 15 miles of me.  Personally though I have never been paralyzed by too much choice or FOMO.

I live in USA. I’ve live all over the country.  My generation either never get married or relationships end in divorce. My parent generation stay in marriage. Had they been married today given how their relationship was they woukd have ended in divorce.

 

divorce data is skewed. My career field is as a data scientist. V census gets their data via survey sampling and with response bias where they respond single instead of divorced/ widiwed

 

unlike my parents generation, in my generation both worked. My parents it usually wasn’t mom stayed home fir kids. Only after kids went to school did she go back to work. My parents were married at young 21. My brother didn’t get married till he was 27. I didn’t get married till I was 32.

 

first marriage age has changed when you split by urban centers and not. In urban centers where people are career focused marriage usually waits.  In a small town/ rural if you are over 25 and unmarried  people start to gossip. That doesn't happen in urban areas.

 

unlike traditional dating, in online dating you have far more choices. In this dynamic comes the paradox of choice. Many books and research payers have bern written on how peop,e choose or decide things and how too many choices can slow diwn or paralyze the process.  Peop,e can’t make a choice.  
 

another dynamic is now with women being responsible fir themselves, when they find a partner, many don’t want to feel they are settling.  This has also delayed marriages.

 

urban society as a whole is nbased on two income families. It’s the original jump in housing price in the late 90s in top 25 metro areas where two income families had more than one income family at the same age. This has been a primary source of the initial housing boom. Prior to that women might have worked but it was extra money.

 

 

 

 

[chillii]

9 hours ago, Ami1uwant said:

OLD is getting harder because you are getting a lot of bots/ dead profiles/ scammers and 15+ yrs ago there were more serious users who really wanted something. Now you are getting more people who try it out just to see they get this fantasy person who they wouldn't get.

Yeah l mean if it's a relationship and future your looking for, don't get me wrong there was all the other rubbish to on the sites l joined. A lot of damaged people, fake or dead profiles or 10yr old pics, people looking for ego boosts, bitter angry, all kinds of just junk. lt did take me a while to figure it all out and but in the end l got the hang of it by being very very selective and you could pick the serious and together ones, well natured.

l use to read what they had to say and the way they'd talk about the future, love, men, dreams, anything real and things like that and look for the like minded.

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by chillii

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, chillii said:

lt did take me a while to figure it all out and but in the end l got the hang of it by being very very selective and you could pick the serious and together ones, well natured.

Yeah it takes a bit to learn the ins and outs of OLD, but once you do it gets easier. It worked really well for me. Although I didn’t exclusively use OLD for dates. But to be clear I met my wife through OLD and had lots of dates with women I found attractive too. And I’m a very average looking guy. I just didn’t get bent out of shape when a women wasn’t interested; and plenty weren’t. It just didn’t bother me. Why would it?

[Amanda92]

On 5/18/2022 at 9:33 PM, Wiseman2 said:

After a couple of messages meet in person for a brief coffee/drink.. You don't want text buddies, so "carrying a conversation" in unimportant until you meet

It doesn't work like this for everyone. I don't have time to meet with everyone who will send me several messages. I would have to make makeup, dress and drive to the city. I go out only if it's a real date. I prefer to text a bit go know if we have something in common. As a young, pretty girl I could meet a new guy everyday, so he has to put effort to make me want to make time for him.

The problem is - conversation with most guys is just boring. Just "how are you". Try to find what do you have in common. Don't waste your and her time. Seeing each other pictures is too less to figure out if you are a good match.

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, Amanda92 said:

The problem is - conversation with most guys is just boring.

Remember that you are also participating in the conversation so steer it to what your interests are and he will probably appreciate it.  I find when one person is bored so is the other.

[Alpacalia]

I don't think one answer applies to all people.

Yes, I'm not inclined to meet a person after a 2.0 messages.

That's like 5 seconds.

[SumGuy]

On 5/26/2022 at 12:57 PM, Ami1uwant said:

I live in USA. I’ve live all over the country.  

.... Prior to that women might have worked but it was extra money.

Me too on the livin' in and all around the USA, and elsewhere...not quite like Johnny Cash, but I've been almost everywhere man  

You may have been lucky, in the lower middle class world I grew up in plenty of husbands and wives both worked because they needed the money, mom's job was never just extra money.  Kid's too, my paper route money was not extra, a good portion went to making ends meet.   

Heck my parents were kids during the Depression, then everyone in the family worked.  It's not like raising kids and maintaining a home isn't work.  Just no W2 and you never get a day off...kind of like the modern gig economy    I'd go so far to say that women worked as much or more than men, they just got paid less and less recognition...and for so long with far less rights than men.

Also in my parents day, rural folks worked hard...my mom always would tell the story of how if you wanted chicken and apple pie for dinner when she was a kid, well first you catch the chicken, kill the chicken, pluck he chicken, pick the apples, they had there flour made ahead of time but they grew the wheat they used...etc.   On the farm everyone worked, every day.  I would say for most people over most of history everyone in the family worked to make ends meet.  Farmer's had it good compared to factory workers then.

Not sure how any of that really even relates to dating.  

[Ami1uwant]

2 hours ago, SumGuy said:

Me too on the livin' in and all around the USA, and elsewhere...not quite like Johnny Cash, but I've been almost everywhere man  

You may have been lucky, in the lower middle class world I grew up in plenty of husbands and wives both worked because they needed the money, mom's job was never just extra money.  Kid's too, my paper route money was not extra, a good portion went to making ends meet.   

Heck my parents were kids during the Depression, then everyone in the family worked.  It's not like raising kids and maintaining a home isn't work.  Just no W2 and you never get a day off...kind of like the modern gig economy    I'd go so far to say that women worked as much or more than men, they just got paid less and less recognition...and for so long with far less rights than men.

Also in my parents day, rural folks worked hard...my mom always would tell the story of how if you wanted chicken and apple pie for dinner when she was a kid, well first you catch the chicken, kill the chicken, pluck he chicken, pick the apples, they had there flour made ahead of time but they grew the wheat they used...etc.   On the farm everyone worked, every day.  I would say for most people over most of history everyone in the family worked to make ends meet.  Farmer's had it good compared to factory workers then.

Not sure how any of that really even relates to dating.  

My dad was a career high school teacher who started his career in the mid 60s with a very good pension.  When we were young kids we didn’t have much or do many things. I was the middle child. After my younger sister went to all day school in 1st grade, I was in 5th, brother in 9 th. Mom went to work doing mainly during the day jobs. In my school it was before busing. My  mom woukd drive us to school and pick us up. When she was working I’d walk home with my sister home. There were school crossing guards that pretty much had eyes on kids the whole way walking home by where they were stationed. We had neighbors who also had kids so if we weren’t picked up, we’d stay at their house till dad came home around 4 pm.  When my sister was in the 3rd grade they started doing school busing picking up the neighborhoods. She had close home pick up and drop off. Me and my brother were latchkey kids and would make sure she got home.

my mom went to work for 9-3 jobs and then worked long schedules. These were in retail. When I was at college she went to college and got an associates and worked as a travel agent for 15+ years before she retired and internet took over.

 

my dad did spring-fall weekend work. He worked at a local nursery making extra money. He and someone he met there started doing a side business of doing home landscaping work.  Us kids can paid fir labor like hauling soil in a wheel barrow,

after my mom started working we had a little more money to do things.  By the time my dad  retired the house was entirely paid off and he was on a very good pension based on high salary and years of service. After “ returning” he still did some side jobs like fir a realtor friend of his, he did house photograph work on homes fir sale. This income he earned was classified as his play money.

 

they also had a garden they grew stuff in the backyard. 

in my childhood we did very little in terms of vacations.  It was mainly day trips. The vacations I recall were

1 I was a toddler. We went to Disney world the year it opened. My moms parents lived east or Orlando near cape conaveral ( her dad was career Air Force).

(2) we did another Florida trip a few years later to Florida staying at grandparents. 
(3) after my moms dad died, my grandma moved to near Houston to limp e near my moms sister.in early 80s we had a family reunion there over Xmas. They bought a pop up camper for this.

(4) because of having the camper when I was in my teens we did a few other summer camper trips driving around to local areas about a day trip away maybe once a summer.

 

When we did these vacations my dad would do something work related to then claim it on tax returns.

when mom became a travel agent they travelled much more as a couple. Us kids wee old enough to take care of ourselves.

i grew up in a lower end of middle class for most of my childhood.
 

my mom died first. We went through all the family documents. My dad had a bunch of life insurance policies that my mom would have made a killing on if he died first.  He did a retirement plan that would benefit her. He expected to die in his mid 50s like his dad did. He had about $250K in IRAs then. He had his pension + SS when he was old enough to tap into. he easily lived off of his retirement not touching his IRAs until mandatory withdrawals kicked in.  Most of it was gone when he died because of going into a nursing home.