Difficulty envisioning our future together (updated)

July 5, 2022

The general consensus in your previous thread was not to rush this or rethink the relationship due to his ongoing pressing commitments with his children and ongoing custody issues.

His priorities will always be with his children and if it means being closer to their school or avoiding conflict with his ex, you will always be less of a priority. He’s just not realizing it and seems clouded, needy and feeling like he needs you as his support. If he needs to be closer to the school for his kids, don’t stand in the way. Encourage what is best in their best interests as a family and for his children.

Sorry you’re caught in this. The more time goes on and he sees that you’re more interested in your own personal interests and they conflict with his family’s the more likely this will come down like a house of cards no matter how much you try or how many solutions you have to keeping him close to you. His priorities are with his children.

July 5, 2022

This whole idea is just not a good one. I would strongly advise you against becoming your own boyfriend's landlady.

There's far too much potential for things to go south and get very messy on their own. The fact that he wants to keep your relationship a secret from his kids makes this all even worse - especially as he is essentially asking your kids to lie by omission. That puts them in a very unfair position and involves them in adult matters that they have nothing to do with (nor should they)

He didn't seem anywhere near as committed to the idea of it either, if he was still looking around for other rentals after you'd already offered yours. I am sorry but I think you probably acted in haste in kicking out your previous tenant to leave. Your relationship doesn't sound like it's in a strong enough place to support this whole plan. I would re-evaluate and urge you to consider scrapping it altogether. It's not a wise idea on any level.

July 5, 2022

I hope I'm wrong but it does sound like he's looking for ways to back out of coming. His ex should be fully aware of what he's trying to do, which is to be with you. Since you will be involved with their kids it would make sense that she should meet you through face time. Why is she still jealous if they are no longer together?

Edited July 5, 2022 by stillafool

July 5, 2022

3 hours ago, LookingForLongTermLove said:

I told him that I'd be ok asking my kids to not mention to his kids that we are a couple, unless they ask something in which case to tell them to talk to one of us about it. I would never ask my kids to lie, and he agrees that wouldn't be good. That being said, they will find out at some point. How long can this be kept as a secret from his kids?

Agree being his landlady is not a good idea. When you have to involve children to be deceitful to continue hanging on to him you need to start asking yourself if he is ready for a relationship . He is asking you to be a secret an pull his and your children in on this deception. Does that sound good to you?

July 5, 2022

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I did try to address these issues with him, and he has been listening and acknowledging my concerns.

@glows I agree that his kids are his priority. My kids are my priority too and I haven't offered to relocate for him, so in that sense I feel I can't be upset about this. And I have not tried to stand in the way of his decision. In fact, quite the opposite! He has mentioned several times that he wanted him moving in to be a joint decision, and I made it clear that I did not want to make that decision with him. I told him that if I thought about the situation in a selfish manner, I would like him to move in, but that I don't want him to make a decision that might affect his chance at shared custody. Since he was super conflicted over the situation, I encouraged him to discuss this with his lawyer and ask her what her opinion was: would this affect his ability to get shared custody. She said that she didn't feel that moving downtown with the kids would be against his Court interest necessarily. That the most important was for the kids to enjoy living with him and that in this sense the most essential is to make it a very positive experience for them, and to think of ways to get them excited about their new living situation, to help them make new friends etc. That, she believes, is more valuable than being close to school. And when we discussed it (which led to his decision), we agreed that me and my kids could help them feel at home since we know pretty much every kid in the neighbourhood.

@ExpatInItaly I am personally uncomfortable about the landlord title, and this isn't how I saw it. In my mind, he was moving in as a partner, sharing half the cost but I wouldn't make making a profit from his "rent". Although it's my house, I want him to be an equal partner, and share some of the maintenance as well (in labour not money that is). He is on board with this, but he does need a rental agreement for this legal case which muddies things. But I was under the impression we were on the same page on this, but then when he sent me a listing for a rental in the school area, I started doubting the whole thing!

@stillafool @Wiseman2His ex seems to have some serious mental issues. They were separated previously for about a 6-month period (years ago, and they got back together for a couple years after that since kids were very young). He felt it was permanently over at the time and went on a few dates with women, slept with one woman. When they got back together, he was honest and told her. She went totally crazy and started stalking these women, finding out where they live, their phone number and started calling them, treating them etc. She went completely crazy, and wouldn't let it go. This was partly the reason for him leaving her permanently. So, I can see his worry. He has put it in an affidavit for Court that he's been in a committed relationship since over a year, so she knows that, just not the details about the housing situation. I proposed that he just tells her upfront which he considered. His point was that if he tells her in advance, she will poison the kids before he even moves in. He realizes that she'll eventually find out, but wants the kids to have a chance to get adjusted and make up their own mind about the living situation before she tries her poison on them. He hopes that if there's a 6-month delay or a few months at least, that the kids will be well adjusted and happy in their new living situation and therefore be less affected by her opinion. I understand his arguments and they make sense to me. But it does make me feel uneasy to have to involve my kids in the situation. Although my kids are aware of his legal battle. He told them what they needed to know because they kept asking him when they would meet his kids (they are super excited and can't wait. They really really like my partner because he's been super amazing and involved with them). But it still makes me a little uneasy. Perhaps I just need to get over it.

July 5, 2022

1 minute ago, LookingForLongTermLove said:

I was under the impression we were on the same page on this, but then when he sent me a listing for a rental in the school area, I started doubting the whole thing!

As you should.

It's quite obvious you are not at all on the same page, and he doesn't really want to move in. You two aren't ready for it, anyway.

July 5, 2022

5 minutes ago, LookingForLongTermLove said:

But it still makes me a little uneasy.

It's understandable. He has a history of using people. Everyone seems to be a pawn for him, his kids, you for this 'affidavit'. etc. He is also vindictive .

He is throwing her under the bus, she is not as "crazy" as he states. After all the courts gave her primary custody. He's playing nice now, but in time you'll see why she divorced him.

July 5, 2022

6 minutes ago, LookingForLongTermLove said:

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I did try to address these issues with him, and he has been listening and acknowledging my concerns.

@glows I agree that his kids are his priority. My kids are my priority too and I haven't offered to relocate for him, so in that sense I feel I can't be upset about this. And I have not tried to stand in the way of his decision. In fact, quite the opposite! He has mentioned several times that he wanted him moving in to be a joint decision, and I made it clear that I did not want to make that decision with him. I told him that if I thought about the situation in a selfish manner, I would like him to move in, but that I don't want him to make a decision that might affect his chance at shared custody. Since he was super conflicted over the situation, I encouraged him to discuss this with his lawyer and ask her what her opinion was: would this affect his ability to get shared custody. She said that she didn't feel that moving downtown with the kids would be against his Court interest necessarily. That the most important was for the kids to enjoy living with him and that in this sense the most essential is to make it a very positive experience for them, and to think of ways to get them excited about their new living situation, to help them make new friends etc. That, she believes, is more valuable than being close to school. And when we discussed it (which led to his decision), we agreed that me and my kids could help them feel at home since we know pretty much every kid in the neighbourhood.

@ExpatInItaly I am personally uncomfortable about the landlord title, and this isn't how I saw it. In my mind, he was moving in as a partner, sharing half the cost but I wouldn't make making a profit from his "rent". Although it's my house, I want him to be an equal partner, and share some of the maintenance as well (in labour not money that is). He is on board with this, but he does need a rental agreement for this legal case which muddies things. But I was under the impression we were on the same page on this, but then when he sent me a listing for a rental in the school area, I started doubting the whole thing!

@stillafool @Wiseman2His ex seems to have some serious mental issues. They were separated previously for about a 6-month period (years ago, and they got back together for a couple years after that since kids were very young). He felt it was permanently over at the time and went on a few dates with women, slept with one woman. When they got back together, he was honest and told her. She went totally crazy and started stalking these women, finding out where they live, their phone number and started calling them, treating them etc. She went completely crazy, and wouldn't let it go. This was partly the reason for him leaving her permanently. So, I can see his worry. He has put it in an affidavit for Court that he's been in a committed relationship since over a year, so she knows that, just not the details about the housing situation. I proposed that he just tells her upfront which he considered. His point was that if he tells her in advance, she will poison the kids before he even moves in. He realizes that she'll eventually find out, but wants the kids to have a chance to get adjusted and make up their own mind about the living situation before she tries her poison on them. He hopes that if there's a 6-month delay or a few months at least, that the kids will be well adjusted and happy in their new living situation and therefore be less affected by her opinion. I understand his arguments and they make sense to me. But it does make me feel uneasy to have to involve my kids in the situation. Although my kids are aware of his legal battle. He told them what they needed to know because they kept asking him when they would meet his kids (they are super excited and can't wait. They really really like my partner because he's been super amazing and involved with them). But it still makes me a little uneasy. Perhaps I just need to get over it.

I'd leave it for now and let him make the decision that is best for him.

His ex-wife's mental health issues aren't any of your concern and I agree with you that it's best to take a few steps back. His anxiety is obviously playing a role as he's a bundle of nervousness and anxiety with the custody issue hanging overhead. Refuse to get wrapped up in his custody issues and issues with his ex-wife.

I think it's about time that this man makes up his mind about where he wants to live.

I am still very puzzled what it is about him that appeals to you, considering his ongoing issues. Be a little more aloof and less involved with his court details and decisions regarding his children or where he lives. Ultimately your relationship is very far down the priority list, in comparison with everything else going on. This is the reality of your relationship. There is no need to fight against this anymore. Let the chips fall where they must and let him make his decisions with zero input from you. He already knows where you stand.

The frustrating part is that you are without tenants currently and a portion of your income is unstable but it won't be forever. You will find other tenants even if he chooses something else. Whether you trust his stability or mental health is another matter altogether. He seems very unstable as a person/partner.

July 5, 2022

2 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's understandable. He has a history of using people. Everyone seems to be a pawn for him, his kids, you for this 'affidavit'. etc. He is also vindictive .

He is throwing her under the bus, she is not as "crazy" as he states. After all the courts gave her primary custody. He's playing nice now, but in time you'll see why she divorced him.

I agree.

July 5, 2022

19 minutes ago, LookingForLongTermLove said:

His ex seems to have some serious mental issues.

....said almost every ex-husband ever.

Don't worry about her mental health. That's his problem, and it's quite possible he's the reason for any mental anguish she has experienced. If he's divorced, and has been for some time, there's no reason that you should remain a secret, and that raises some red flags for me. If they are still that enmeshed after being divorced for so long, then they have some boundary issues that would concern me if I were you.

I would not rent to him under any circumstances. It could make things very difficult for you if - #1 - she's as jealous and vindictive as he says she is, and #2 - if things go south for the two of you. Also, if his child is already calling you "City Mommy", isn't it quite possible the ex wife is already aware? If not, she soon will be.

I would back off for now and let him make his decision so that he doesn't grow to resent you down the road.

July 5, 2022

39 minutes ago, LookingForLongTermLove said:

His ex seems to have some serious mental issues. They were separated previously for about a 6-month period (years ago, and they got back together for a couple years after that since kids were very young). He felt it was permanently over at the time and went on a few dates with women, slept with one woman. When they got back together, he was honest and told her. She went totally crazy and started stalking these women, finding out where they live, their phone number and started calling them, treating them etc. She went completely crazy, and wouldn't let it go. This was partly the reason for him leaving her permanently. So, I can see his worry.

I wouldn't really call a married woman whose husband is dating other women; and having sex with one of them, as having serious mental issues just because she went on a rampage about it. This is the chance people take when they mess with someone's spouse. Some will even get physical with whomever is in their path. If he thought she was so crazy why did he go back to her. When he left for 6 months they had kids and he didn't have a problem leaving so he really didn't have to return because the kids were very young. They were even younger when he left the first time.

Besides they are now divorced so he should have made her aware that you are his girlfriend by now. So what if she gets upset? He's divorced and anything she tells the kids about you will be proven wrong and the kids will tell her so. His excuses do not hold water. I wouldn't be suprised if he's still dealing with his ex and thinking about reconciling again. Be careful here OP.

Edited July 5, 2022 by stillafool

July 5, 2022

I agree that he's a bit of a mess. And I knew that going into this relationship. I agree that from an outside perspective, there don't seem to be a lot of benefits to this relationship! And I honestly never thought I would end up in a relationship with someone who's in such a messy situation (and it has been really hard). The reason I'm still with him is that outside of this crazy legal situation, he is an incredibly wonderful partner. He's very caring and kind. He's been amazing to me: very supportive of my own issues, always there to help and listen. He's gotten quite involved with my kids. My son has ADHD, and he's very difficult. He's been absolutely wonderful with him, actually helping him focus better and manage his emotions. He's been very actively working on helping him and has been doing a better job than all the school social workers helping him out since years. He's also been amazing at not only putting up with my difficult family (both my parents have difficult personalities, and my ex husband was constantly fighting with them). He, on the contrary, has not only put up with their s***, he's been helping my mom set up a vegetable garden in her house, helping her with pool maintenance, giving her advice on her financial investments, helping my dad setting up his computer, tv etc. He's been very very involved and helping out whenever he can. He just very easily and happily transitioned into my life, getting along with everyone I care about (unlike my ex husband - so I'm really grateful for that).

As for his ex wife, he probably makes her look worse than she is. Don't we all do that in divorce? That being said, she does seem a little unbalanced. His family and friends all seem to agree. They have many many stories of her erratic behaviour. In her defense, she did have a difficult childhood. Her father was quite abusive towards her mother, and then finally left her for another woman. He dragged her through the mud and left her with nothing (he is extremely wealthy). She was basically in the street. She had been a stay-at-home-mom her whole life, no skills, no money, no job options. She committed suicide a few months after her father dumped her. I can see how that would affect your mental state. My partner does feel sorry for her in some ways. But after two decades of not speaking to her father, post divorce they are now close again, and he's been advising her on how to deal with the divorce, hence the nastiness of the situation it seems. It's quite a mess! And she seems quite damaged.

As for making up his mind about where to live: yes I agree. It's super frustrating. I feel that I have been "aloof" in the sense that I proposed the option of moving upstairs but clearly stated that it's his decision, and that I don't want this to affect his legal battle, and that he should make sure it won't. It seems legal professionals say it won't have a negative impact, yet it appears he doesn't trust his lawyer. I think his doubt came from his brother making a negative comment about his situation a few days ago, and it's put everything back on the table in his mind, which is super frustrating!

July 5, 2022

I don't understand why you guys haven't made plans to actually be together and you keep your paying tenant. It seems a lot of what you have is built on lies to his ex wife as well as the kids and now wanting your kids to lie. Why not just come clean with everyone about your "love" and work from that point like most families in your position do? It doesn't quite make sense. The kids will be confused with all the lying going on as well as their mom which will really get pissed off when she finds out the lies surrounding her kids.

July 5, 2022

46 minutes ago, stillafool said:

I wouldn't really call a married woman whose husband is dating other women; and having sex with one of them, as having serious mental issues just because she went on a rampage about it. This is the chance people take when they mess with someone's spouse. Some will even get physical with whomever is in their path. If he thought she was so crazy why did he go back to her. When he left for 6 months they had kids and he didn't have a problem leaving so he really didn't have to return because the kids were very young. They were even younger when he left the first time.

Besides they are now divorced so he should have made her aware that you are his girlfriend by now. So what if she gets upset? He's divorced and anything she tells the kids about you will be proven wrong and the kids will tell her so. His excuses do not hold water. I wouldn't be suprised if he's still dealing with his ex and thinking about reconciling again. Be careful here OP.

Her issues are a long story. He has told me a lot about her early in the relationship. I have since tried to take some distance. I really don't feel comfortable being in the middle of his battle with her and I have told him so. Sometime in the fall, I put some boundaries as I felt like I was in a relationship with him and his ex at times! He has been very respectful and tried to not inform me of every detail but stick to the big picture. That being said, from what he's told me, but also from what his family members and friends told me, she has serious anxiety when she doesn't feel like she's in charge. This made her a controlling wife it seems, and I see that she's quite controlling with the kids as well. I've frequently noticed his kids behaving in ways that isn't quite normal for kids. For example, I would offer them an ice cream after lunch at my house, and they would give me a strange look like it's a trap, and something really bad would happen if they accepted. There's something slightly off there. I think it's good for the kids to have a different perspective and experience with their father.

Anyway, her odd behaviour is beyond just going on a rampage over other women. And I agree that it is somewhat understandable even if technically they were not together at the time. Love makes you do irrational things. And for him going back after a 6-month separation, why? I did the same with my ex. We separated 4 times. The first 3 I went back. The 4th was final. Why did I go back? We had a very toxic relationship in our final years. But in some ways I still loved him despite that, and my kids were also young then, and I thought it would be better for them to have parents that are together, even if the relationship is difficult.

As for getting back with her, I have zero fear of that. I think that although he never liked her very much, he did love her a lot. But she has put him through Hello since their separation, and whatever love he had left was killed by her behaviour.

July 5, 2022

3 minutes ago, LookingForLongTermLove said:

But she has put him through Hello since their separation, and whatever love he had left was killed by her behaviour.

Well like I told another poster, I'd love to hear her version of their marriage. I'm sure it too would be eye opening. It doesn't surprise me that he's made her out to be a horrible person as that's just par for the course. Did she also cheat on him with other men?

July 5, 2022

1 hour ago, LookingForLongTermLove said:

I agree that he's a bit of a mess. And I knew that going into this relationship. I agree that from an outside perspective, there don't seem to be a lot of benefits to this relationship! And I honestly never thought I would end up in a relationship with someone who's in such a messy situation (and it has been really hard). The reason I'm still with him is that outside of this crazy legal situation, he is an incredibly wonderful partner. He's very caring and kind. He's been amazing to me: very supportive of my own issues, always there to help and listen. He's gotten quite involved with my kids. My son has ADHD, and he's very difficult. He's been absolutely wonderful with him, actually helping him focus better and manage his emotions. He's been very actively working on helping him and has been doing a better job than all the school social workers helping him out since years. He's also been amazing at not only putting up with my difficult family (both my parents have difficult personalities, and my ex husband was constantly fighting with them). He, on the contrary, has not only put up with their s***, he's been helping my mom set up a vegetable garden in her house, helping her with pool maintenance, giving her advice on her financial investments, helping my dad setting up his computer, tv etc. He's been very very involved and helping out whenever he can. He just very easily and happily transitioned into my life, getting along with everyone I care about (unlike my ex husband - so I'm really grateful for that).

As for his ex wife, he probably makes her look worse than she is. Don't we all do that in divorce? That being said, she does seem a little unbalanced. His family and friends all seem to agree. They have many many stories of her erratic behaviour. In her defense, she did have a difficult childhood. Her father was quite abusive towards her mother, and then finally left her for another woman. He dragged her through the mud and left her with nothing (he is extremely wealthy). She was basically in the street. She had been a stay-at-home-mom her whole life, no skills, no money, no job options. She committed suicide a few months after her father dumped her. I can see how that would affect your mental state. My partner does feel sorry for her in some ways. But after two decades of not speaking to her father, post divorce they are now close again, and he's been advising her on how to deal with the divorce, hence the nastiness of the situation it seems. It's quite a mess! And she seems quite damaged.

As for making up his mind about where to live: yes I agree. It's super frustrating. I feel that I have been "aloof" in the sense that I proposed the option of moving upstairs but clearly stated that it's his decision, and that I don't want this to affect his legal battle, and that he should make sure it won't. It seems legal professionals say it won't have a negative impact, yet it appears he doesn't trust his lawyer. I think his doubt came from his brother making a negative comment about his situation a few days ago, and it's put everything back on the table in his mind, which is super frustrating!

It sounds very frustrating overall especially when there is a lot up in the air and his life is unsettled.

Continue stepping back. Use the thread to vent and let it out.

I do find it strange he’s close to your parents given the numerous issues or that he’s giving them financial advice. I would not feel comfortable with this. He should sort out his personal issues and living situation before advising anyone about personal matters, least of all financial.

It seems he’s got you believing a lot of his sad state of affairs and told you numerous things about his ex-wife that are really not any of your concern or business. This is strange as well and seems he’s overcompensating trying to earn your trust. I wouldn’t look upon a man who talks like this very well.

Edited July 5, 2022 by glows

July 5, 2022

4 minutes ago, stillafool said:

I don't understand why you guys haven't made plans to actually be together and you keep your paying tenant. It seems a lot of what you have is built on lies to his ex wife as well as the kids and now wanting your kids to lie. Why not just come clean with everyone about your "love" and work from that point like most families in your position do? It doesn't quite make sense. The kids will be confused with all the lying going on as well as their mom which will really get pissed off when she finds out the lies surrounding her kids.

About the living situation, my apartment is too small to accommodate 2 adults and 5 children. We would have to buy something else together otherwise, which would require me to sell my duplex first otherwise I don't have a down payment. That's an even bigger commitment, and to be honest not one I'm ready to make until his Court case is closed. The outcome of the Court case could have a very significant impact on his financial situation as a) he's paying child support now as if he never saw the kids. You need 40% custody in order to have child support be equalized between the two parents' salaries. b) he doesn't know yet how much his legal fees will be by the end. He can't invest his savings into a house until that is over. All that to say that I am not willing to own a house together and share finances until she knows what his finances will look like. I won't gamble my financial stability for a romantic relationship! So, this is the best situation for now. Furthermore, I actually think that two apartments will help kids adjust to each other (they haven't met!). All other issues set aside, I do think for the kids that this is an ideal situation: it provides a transition.

As for telling the ex. I don't know her personally so can only rely on his info. She does seem to have a lot of influence over them, so I understand his concern. But that doesn't make the situation any easier.

July 5, 2022

4 minutes ago, LookingForLongTermLove said:

She does seem to have a lot of influence over them, so I understand his concern.

She is their mother isn't she?

July 5, 2022

6 hours ago, LookingForLongTermLove said:

I told him that I'd be ok asking my kids to not mention to his kids that we are a couple, unless they ask something in which case to tell them to talk to one of us about it. I would never ask my kids to lie

You are asking them to lie by omission, please don’t ask your kids to do that.

I say - live separately, your lives as too complicated. If he is more worried about what his ex-wife thinks/that she will be jealous - you don’t want to move this guy into your home. And, I certainly wouldn’t want him as a tenant because if/when things go south, that is going to be a disaster.

July 5, 2022

Having read more of your responses, I just have to say that you are wayyyyyy too involved in their drama OP. Personally, I don’t see the appeal of this relationship at all. I worry about your children - their mama seems more focused on her relationship than her children. They don’t need this kind of relationship drama in their little lives…

July 5, 2022

9 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Well like I told another poster, I'd love to hear her version of their marriage. I'm sure it too would be eye opening. It doesn't surprise me that he's made her out to be a horrible person as that's just par for the course. Did she also cheat on him with other men?

I totally agree! I'm sure he was not perfect. He doesn't pretend he was actually. He does have a lot of issues but I've dated enough people in my life to know he's not an a**h***. She's probably not an a**h*** either, but just bitter about the situation and dealing with her own demons. From my perspective, they were not compatible. They met at a young age (my ex and I did as well), and only realized way later that they were not a good match.

July 5, 2022

Did she have an affair on him too?

July 5, 2022

2 hours ago, LookingForLongTermLove said:

About the living situation, my apartment is too small to accommodate 2 adults and 5 children. We would have to buy something else together otherwise, which would require me to sell my duplex first otherwise I don't have a down payment. That's an even bigger commitment, and to be honest not one I'm ready to make until his Court case is closed.

It is way to early to be thinking about buying a home with a man who is still married to another woman.

It’s even too early to be thinking about living with the man…

July 6, 2022

^^^^ For what it’s worth, spoken as one who is in a relationship and living with a man who was finalizing a divorce when we met, who’s ex-wife has legit mental health issues, and who had a child - it’s WAY too early for you to be thinking about introducing your children or moving in together. I’m sorry. There is a whole lot he needs to settle first.

Edited July 6, 2022 by BaileyB

July 6, 2022

I can't imagine being in a relationship that is so riddled with drama and uncertainty.

Personally, I would be out of there. He is not ready for a real relationship if he's still tip-toeing around his ex. Bottom line.

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