am I right to be annoyed?

[ccas93]

so I set a date with this girl for lunch today. I didn't feel like there were many expectations when talking with her on the app, she seemed pretty casual and invited me to lunch. I drove to her city (30 min from me) to meet her at a seafood restaurant. Sitting down and talking, I knew pretty early on I didn't feel particularly attracted to her in person, but she seemed comfortable and nice enough where I felt like it could at least be a good time. I'm not on a super tight budget or anything, but was happy to see that the restaurant was pretty affordable. I ordered a Cajun fish plate for $12 (which was really good) and a side of garlic bread for $4 and a water, so my total was $16. She ordered crab legs ($35), garlic bread ($4) and a soda ($4) for a $43 total. 

When the bill came I looked at her and she made no eye contact with me, pretending to be staring off. I saw the bill was $70 when you factor in the tips. This is probably where I messed up: by not speaking up and asking her how she wanted to do this. But for some reason I'm uncomfortable about addressing money matters with people.

 I cleared my throat. She didn't look up. I pulled out my wallet slowly while looking at her hoping she'd notice what I was doing. I then put my card on the tray down while looking at her, hoping she'd see what I was doing and at least offer to split, if not pay for her food, that way I could say either "no I got this" or "yes sure that would be great, thanks". The waiter took it and I ate the $70, which I wasn't really expecting to spend on a casual lunch date. Oh, and then as soon as the waiter took it, suddenly her attention was back on me again, and she didn't even say thank you when the waiter came back with my card and we were getting up to leave. 

We took a walk and sat down at the park after. I was annoyed but tried to hide it, but she still sensed it but she thought it was because of her conversation skills, and asked if she was talking about herself too much. I didn't want to tell her why my demeanor changed, because I feel like I'd sound like a prick being annoyed about the money. 

Obviously I'm a man so I've payed for first dates before and it's not usually a problem, esp since the vast majority of girls will at least acknowledge the bill and ask how we should pay, and tbh it's not like I can't afford $70. But I didn't like her buying the most expensive thing on the menu, ignoring the check, not leaving her own tip, not thanking me for or acknowledging that I paid. 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

I would be annoyed by her behaviour as well. 

And since you weren't attracted to her anyway, let this be the last date. In the future, don't do meals for first meets. Suggest a coffee or a drink instead. See if there's chemistry and some level of compatibility. And then suggest a meal for a second date. 

[Alpacalia]

[ ] 

Yes. Crab legs are expensive.

Plus, she invited you out.

No offer on her part to chip in? No thank you? Geesh.

Yes, I can see why there's no interest on your part for a second date.

Rather than working out who pays on a date in this scenario you’re better off avoiding this situation entirely. 

I'd decline the seafood restaurants in the future and stick to something low-key.

Edited April 28, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed reference to double posting

[Acacia98]

I would be annoyed too. That was pretty rude of her.

[Alpacalia]

xxx

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Alpacalia
double post

[glows]

My take on this is that she felt no connection with you either or chemistry but wanted to take advantage of the situation. She seems very aware of what was happening and that you hesitated when you were paying the bill or seemed annoyed afterwards. 

The truth is very few women who are interested in you as a person, as a man, or someone she would want to see again, would behave like that and think everything is ok. You would have to be remarkably removed from reality or have a great deal of entitlement to think that way. 

[ccas93]

12 hours ago, glows said:

My take on this is that she felt no connection with you either or chemistry but wanted to take advantage of the situation. She seems very aware of what was happening and that you hesitated when you were paying the bill or seemed annoyed afterwards. 

The truth is very few women who are interested in you as a person, as a man, or someone she would want to see again, would behave like that and think everything is ok. You would have to be remarkably removed from reality or have a great deal of entitlement to think that way. 

sort of, I would have been OK with splitting the bill. Or at least thanking me for paying the entire thing. She seemed pretty out to lunch tbh (good pun huh?), kept talking about microdosing on shrooms on stuff. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by ccas93

[Wiseman2]

This is why planning appropriately is so crucial. For the first meet keep it a brief coffee/drink and none of this awkwardness would have happened. Write this off as tuition, then next time keep the date brief and simple.

[smackie9]

Settle for coffee dates here on out. 

I remember reading a story that the woman went on a date, they ordered dinner, he drank 2 bottles of wine, got belligerent. While she went to the bathroom he got kicked out/took off in a cab. She came back to find him gone and was left with the bill. 

[Alvi]

Every time I see a thread from guy about who should pay I notice one very clear common denominator. A guy is not attracted to a woman. This is then he starts complaining. How dare she eat too much. OK, I cannot honestly believe you looked into her mouth and calculating dollar signs. And that wasn't 'enough, you took it to the Kangaroo court on this site and posted exactly what she ate and how much exactly each item on the menu costs. I am sorry OP, but you do come across and cheap and petty. Ask yourself, if you found her attractive, heck if she looked better than her pics, would you still be complaining? If the answer is no, then let it go. 

This is what I have learned from this site. A guy finds woman hot = He has zero problem either paying for her and to put up with the incredible amount of crap from her. If she says jump, he is going to say how high. As long as a woman is hot, she can get away with almost everything. Even if she is a serial killer, all some guys are going to care about is how how she is. If a guy finds woman not attractive enough to his standards = This is were all the complaining starts. How dare she order that much food, how dare she eat, just how dare she. How dare she do this or that, how dare she talk about certain subjects, and how come I am supposed to pay for her. She is not attractive after all.

OP, dating costs money. If you don't have much, then either don't date or arrange some cheap dates. Coffee dates are great. They are unexpansive and you get to see what the other person is like. 

[vla1120]

Take it as a lesson learned. Opt for coffee or something free for a first meet-up. I do wonder if it would have been as much of a problem had you been attracted to her. This is why I never allow a man to pay for me. I pay my own way because I wouldn't want him to feel inconvenienced if he didn't find me attractive, but still felt obligated to pay for my meal. 

[glows]

21 hours ago, ccas93 said:

sort of, I would have been OK with splitting the bill. Or at least thanking me for paying the entire thing. She seemed pretty out to lunch tbh (good pun huh?), kept talking about microdosing on shrooms on stuff. 

Don't let it jade you or think poorly of women/dating. I think many people are raised to play a stereotype or a role when it comes to dating and romantic relationships. You can choose to steer clear of that or avoid that in the future if that's not the type of woman you're looking for. It sounds like you've dated more down to earth women in the past. This one was unusual. 

[Alvi]

1 hour ago, vla1120 said:

I do wonder if it would have been as much of a problem had you been attracted to her.

This is exactly what I was talking about in my post above. Somehow you never read posts where a guy went out with a supermodel and complained that he ended up paying for a dinner.  The guy would go on and on about how hot she looked and we would be spared hearing any gory details about what she ate in particular and how much each individual thing on a menu actually costs. 

So, mainly this post is not about what that woman did wrong in particular. It is about a guy not finding her particularly attractive. 

Should she offered to split the bill or to pay for herself. Well, perhaps she should have. But since the OP agreed to go out to the restaurant with this woman, paying the entire meal is not that strange or unexpected. The main thing here is not what she did or didn't do but  rather that OP did not find her attractive and therefore in his mind she needs to pay. Would he be complaining about her if they met for a coffee and he spent $2-3 dollars on her. Hey, how dare she not to pay for her own coffee, lol. 

[Happy Lemming]

If money is tight, pick a home style restaurant.  Those types of restaurants usually don't have a liquor license. And the meals are all pretty much the same cost.  I used to go to this chain called "Po Folks" most of them are out of business, but they were perfect for first dates.

I also utilized this "dive" bar I knew that had dirt cheap drinks.  If the woman asked why I picked this place, I told her they have the "Best Grill Cheese" in the world, and convince her she had to try one.  The grill cheese wasn't the best --- as a matter of fact, it was fairly average, but it was cheap.  So I fed her and got a few drinks in her for really, really cheap. 

You need to learn where these "inexpensive" places are and plan your dates accordingly.  I WILL NOT take a woman (I am newly dating) to any place that serves "Crab Legs"  OMG!!  those things are outrageously priced!!

You'll learn young grasshopper -- you'll learn.

[ccas93]

55 minutes ago, Alvi said:

This is exactly what I was talking about in my post above. Somehow you never read posts where a guy went out with a supermodel and complained that he ended up paying for a dinner.  The guy would go on and on about how hot she looked and we would be spared hearing any gory details about what she ate in particular and how much each individual thing on a menu actually costs. 

So, mainly this post is not about what that woman did wrong in particular. It is about a guy not finding her particularly attractive. 

Should she offered to split the bill or to pay for herself. Well, perhaps she should have. But since the OP agreed to go out to the restaurant with this woman, paying the entire meal is not that strange or unexpected. The main thing here is not what she did or didn't do but  rather that OP did not find her attractive and therefore in his mind she needs to pay. Would he be complaining about her if they met for a coffee and he spent $2-3 dollars on her. Hey, how dare she not to pay for her own coffee, lol. 

Interesting take, just goes to show you can frame my post how you'd like to in your own mind  this isn't even advice, this is just speculative (inaccurate) third person comment on how you think I am and casting aspersions on my character. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by ccas93

[ccas93]

2 hours ago, vla1120 said:

Take it as a lesson learned. Opt for coffee or something free for a first meet-up. I do wonder if it would have been as much of a problem had you been attracted to her. This is why I never allow a man to pay for me. I pay my own way because I wouldn't want him to feel inconvenienced if he didn't find me attractive, but still felt obligated to pay for my meal. 

a lot of people are telling me not to do restaurant dates as a first meet up, and I totally understand why they're saying, but I've done plenty of them in the past and this is the first time I've had an issue with this particular matter. If we had both ordered the same meal, maybe I would have offered to eat the cost of the lunch anyway. I've covered dates before even if I wasn't that into the girl. 

For the record, I would have been annoyed if I did find her attractive - it seemed really expectant and entitled. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by ccas93

[ccas93]

Just now, ccas93 said:

j

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by ccas93

[smackie9]

Clearly this woman had a craving for crab legs, knew she couldn't afford them and possibly anything for that matter and figured out a way to get them. The OP was taken advantage of, whether she was attractive or not. Yes he would still be upset because the attractive woman would probably decline a second date/ignore his texts. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by smackie9

[ccas93]

4 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

Clearly this woman had a craving for crab legs, knew she couldn't afford them and possibly anything for that matter and figured out a way to get them. The OP was taken advantage of, whether she was attractive or not. Yes he would still be upset because the attractive woman would probably decline a second date/ignore his texts. 

assuming I'd even want to text said attractive girl again. I was put off and should have probably should have declined going to the park with this girl, where it also seemed like she was hoping I'd make a move on her. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by ccas93

[ccas93]

anyway I understand that it's not strange or unusual for women to have this expectation. I personally didn't like the etiquette on this particular date, next time I won't be doing any sort of restaurant that could potentially run expensive as a first meet. I'm now personally guessing she couldn't afford the meal like Smackie said. Doesn't really matter anymore though it's a leaning experience. Thanks and I think we can have this topic closed now. 

[Calmandfocused]

Op, I’m a woman and I fully agree with you that this was very bad manners on her behalf. I agree: she used you for a free expensive meal and that is wrong!

I have a rule; I always split the bill on the first date. This way I don’t owe anyone anything if we don’t work out, and I can’t be be accused otherwise.

 In the event he absolutely insists, I’ve already ensured I have ordered a cheaper option. If the date goes really well I offer to pay “next time”. The only exception to this is if the 1st date is a coffee date and he pays for it. I can live with him parting with a couple of £ on my behalf. 
 

(side note; I went on a coffee date once, agreed to a second date, went for a pub meal and he insisted I paid, based on the fact he “paid the first time”. I paid for the meal but was disgusted on the basis that he was loaded and I was going through an expensive divorce. I never saw him again) 

I’m all for gender equality on every level but you cannot have your cake and eat it. 

Don’t contact her again op. Write it off as a bad experience but learn from it - no expensive restaurants from here on in. 

[Wiseman2]

This takes "eat and run" to a whole new level.🍽

[dramafreezone]

On 4/27/2022 at 10:03 PM, ccas93 said:

so I set a date with this girl for lunch today. I didn't feel like there were many expectations when talking with her on the app, she seemed pretty casual and invited me to lunch. I drove to her city (30 min from me) to meet her at a seafood restaurant. Sitting down and talking, I knew pretty early on I didn't feel particularly attracted to her in person, but she seemed comfortable and nice enough where I felt like it could at least be a good time. I'm not on a super tight budget or anything, but was happy to see that the restaurant was pretty affordable. I ordered a Cajun fish plate for $12 (which was really good) and a side of garlic bread for $4 and a water, so my total was $16. She ordered crab legs ($35), garlic bread ($4) and a soda ($4) for a $43 total. 

When the bill came I looked at her and she made no eye contact with me, pretending to be staring off. I saw the bill was $70 when you factor in the tips. This is probably where I messed up: by not speaking up and asking her how she wanted to do this. But for some reason I'm uncomfortable about addressing money matters with people.

 I cleared my throat. She didn't look up. I pulled out my wallet slowly while looking at her hoping she'd notice what I was doing. I then put my card on the tray down while looking at her, hoping she'd see what I was doing and at least offer to split, if not pay for her food, that way I could say either "no I got this" or "yes sure that would be great, thanks". The waiter took it and I ate the $70, which I wasn't really expecting to spend on a casual lunch date. Oh, and then as soon as the waiter took it, suddenly her attention was back on me again, and she didn't even say thank you when the waiter came back with my card and we were getting up to leave. 

We took a walk and sat down at the park after. I was annoyed but tried to hide it, but she still sensed it but she thought it was because of her conversation skills, and asked if she was talking about herself too much. I didn't want to tell her why my demeanor changed, because I feel like I'd sound like a prick being annoyed about the money. 

Obviously I'm a man so I've payed for first dates before and it's not usually a problem, esp since the vast majority of girls will at least acknowledge the bill and ask how we should pay, and tbh it's not like I can't afford $70. But I didn't like her buying the most expensive thing on the menu, ignoring the check, not leaving her own tip, not thanking me for or acknowledging that I paid. 

 

I don't think this is about the money.  I think if you were really into this woman this wouldn't have been a big deal.

You invested a lot, 30 minutes to drive there, money for someone that you weren't that attracted to.  The lesson here is date women that you find attracive and you're excited to see.

Maybe you were acting cold during the date and she could feel that you weren't really into her.  I don't think you can drive 30 minutes to see someone and then it just be a casual thing.  You had expectations and she didn't meet them.

Dinners or lunches are risky for first dates.  When it goes badly, this is what happens, you pay too much and you get stuck in front of someone that you don't like.  Coffee or drinks are much better, they're cheaper, but more importantly you can eject quickly if it's not going well.  Take it as a lesson learned.

Edited April 30, 2022 by dramafreezone

[poppyfields]

@ccas93 this is 'female entitlement' plain and simple; there is another thread running very similar to this and I posted the same thing, it's a very real thing. 

And thank you for clarifying your annoyance had/has nothing to do with her looks or how attracted you were, and I believe you! 

It's sheer entitlement and you or any man have every right to feel annoyed by it, put off and turned off no matter how gorgeous or not gorgeous she was. 

It's called having standards and knowing your value. 

And I applaud you for having both!  

Edited April 30, 2022 by poppyfields

[ccas93]

31 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

I don't think this is about the money.  I think if you were really into this woman this wouldn't have been a big deal.

You invested a lot, 30 minutes to drive there, money for someone that you weren't that attracted to.  The lesson here is date women that you find attracive and you're excited to see.

Maybe you were acting cold during the date and she could feel that you weren't really into her.  I don't think you can drive 30 minutes to see someone and then it just be a casual thing.  You had expectations and she didn't meet them.

Dinners or lunches are risky for first dates.  When it goes badly, this is what happens, you pay too much and you get stuck in front of someone that you don't like.  Coffee or drinks are much better, they're cheaper, but more importantly you can eject quickly if it's not going well.  Take it as a lesson learned.

Thank you, I agree with you and appreciate your input.

Just so you guys know, here's what made me not attracted to her: her voice more than anything. Very loud voice, lots of casual stoner speech, think the whole restaurant could here what she was saying, and plus she said some things about herself that I didn't quite vibe with. She sounded a lot better spoken over text. She also looked mostly like her photos, but kept a certain physical... ummm trait hidden in her photos. dud dates happen - I wouldn't have thought anything of it if the situation had been gone down differently. 

Anyway, you are definitely right, lesson learned, no more restaurant dates on the first meet. 

14 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

@ccas93 this is 'female entitlement' plain and simple; there is another thread running very similar to this and I posted the same thing, it's a very real thing. 

And thank you for clarifying your annoyance had/has nothing to do with her looks or how attracted you were, and I believe you! 

It's sheer entitlement and you or any man have every right to feel put off and turned off no matter how gorgeous or not gorgeous she was. 

It's called having standards and knowing your value. 

And I applaud you for having both!  

Thank you for understanding! I feel like maybe some people may have taken my post as "she wasn't hot so I didn't wanna pay, if she was a barbie doll I would have been happy to" which is totally like... no. If we had both ordered a normal priced meal I might have just offered to pay anyway. It seemed like "oh I want crab legs, I'mma go to town on this meal and get whatever I want because he's a guy so he will pay for it"

Edited April 30, 2022 by ccas93