smackie9 Posted April 24, 2022 Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) Just my opinion but when they are really into you, there is never any doubt they want to be with with/committed. This dude isn't mature enough to know what he wants regardless of how much in common you have with each other. Look at him..he's undecided about his life, his future, and you. He still has some growing up to do. It's time to cut him loose for your own sanity. Stop inventing guys like him. TBH there shouldn't even be a conversation about this. You know this isn't right so why fight it? Edited April 24, 2022 by smackie9 8
basil67 Posted April 24, 2022 Posted April 24, 2022 I have to agree with @smackie9. I've seen plenty of guys who never wanted to commit do a complete U-Turn when they find The One and suddenly start talking about marriage. You wrote >> (he is 26, I am 33) and he is not very stable in his life right now. Essentially, he is still trying to figure out what he wants to do with his life as everything seems to be up in the air. He doesn’t have stable work and is trying to figure out his next steps. I on the other hand am very stable. I own my own home, I have a dog, and I have a stable career. I know what I want and he is unsure about everything in his life. I guess this should have been my first red flag<< You're absolutely right that this should have been your first red flag. My daughter is only 22 and despite not being ready for a family, she would have run a mile from this kind of dysfunction, no matter how good company he is. Question is, why didn't it send you running for the hills? I suspect it's because you're the kind of person who want to see the best in everyone. But while this is an admirable choice in friendships, you'd be wise to be more choosy when it comes to relationships. Also, you're at the age that you're wanting a family and this is completely understandable. But this guy was only 26. Even if he did have his life together, it would be surprising if he was ready for a family before he was in his early 30's (At least, that's the kind of timeline which is common where I live) but this kind of delay is a huge risk for you. And importantly, did you consider how he could be a role model for your children when he couldn't sort out his own life. Thinking about what kind of father and partner a person would be are crucial questions. Learning to take off those rose coloured glasses will be of so much benefit to you. 2
poppyfields Posted April 24, 2022 Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) Such fears are very real and [even as your boyfriend says] the closer he feels (i.e the more into her he is), the more fearful he gets, and the more he wants to run away. It's not unlike other phobias, say claustrophobia or agoraphobia, both of which present with intense anxiety and often panic [ ] That's what those with intimacy and commitment fears (commitmentphobia) experience upon getting emotionally close and developing strong feelings, romantic feelings, for another human being. Anxiety and panic, a need to run away which they often do. [ ] Edited April 24, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator removed quote, off topic and dismissal of other's views
Author Venus080411 Posted April 24, 2022 Author Posted April 24, 2022 13 minutes ago, poppyfields said: I have too. Those guys obviously didn't suffer from intimacy and commitment fears. They just hadn't met the right person. Given Venus' bf's hot/cold, push/pull behavior and the fact he told her he has a fear of commitment, it's more than him simply not meeting the right woman. There IS no right person for those with such fears, there will always be something 'wrong' and again more times than not, the more intense the attraction and emotion, the more fearful they feel. The stronger the urge to run. I agree with everything you are saying. This guys fear of commitment has been much worse than anyone I have previously dated and I will say I have learned a lot about fear of commitment through him. I think I always thought it was an excuse before him. He actually has said to me "he feels insane". I am his perfect person, but there is something holding him back. He said there is no logic to his feelings right now since I am his ideal and perfect girl and we are great together. He said he actually learned through me that he can't be in a relationship and needs to work on himself to find out what is wrong and how to fix it. I will admit I had no idea someone could be this scared of commitment or love. Thanks to everyone here, I have decided I will be moving on since it seems his issues are much deeper and will take a lot of time to overcome. 2
Alpacalia Posted April 24, 2022 Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Venus080411 said: Thanks to everyone here, I have decided I will be moving on since it seems his issues are much deeper and will take a lot of time to overcome. Excellent. Don't rely on armchair diagnoses because they will only keep you trapped in unhealthy co-dependent dynamics. Best of luck OP! Edited April 24, 2022 by Alpacalia 1 1
Wiseman2 Posted April 24, 2022 Posted April 24, 2022 6 hours ago, Venus080411 said: Do you think people who are afraid of commitment like this can be helped with therapy? "Commitmentphobic" is an Invented term. It's not a psychological condition that needs treatment. For every so labeled commitment phobe out there, they probably married the right person when they knew it. It means you're not compatible on a long term basis. Therapy will not make anyone who's just not that into you have an epiphany and make them walk down the aisle. The key is finding someone you're compatible with as well as attracted to. Relax and try not to force fit things because of ticking clocks. 3
poppyfields Posted April 24, 2022 Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) Venus, it is a fact that people will run away from "love" due to fears and anxiety. Fear of intimacy, fear of commitment, "commitmentphobia," label it however you want, they all boil down to the same thing - FEAR. There is another (very long) thread running now by a long term male poster discussing the conflict/fears he's experiencing, fighting the urge to run; these are genuine fears many people experience. I love to read and have learned a lot from doing so, and if you're interested in learning more, I recommend a powerful book that I still refer to from time to time entitled "He's Scared, She's Scared, the Hidden Fears That Sabotage Relationships." Google it, read reviews. Stay away from garbage like "He's Just Not Into You" or "The Rules." They're pure propaganda to make a buck and won't teach you a dam thing. I'm happy to hear you've chosen to walk away! Next step is introspection and resolving your own issues, it's not easy! And I speak from experience when saying that. Good luck! Edited April 24, 2022 by poppyfields
Author Venus080411 Posted April 24, 2022 Author Posted April 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, poppyfields said: Venus, it is a fact that people will run away from "love" due to fears and anxiety. There is another (very long) thread running now by a long term male poster discussing the conflict he's experiencing, fighting the urge to run; these are very real fears. I love to read and have learned a lot from doing so, and if you're interested in learning more, I recommend a powerful book that I still refer to from time to time entitled "He's Scared, She's Scared, the Hidden Fears That Sabotage Relationships." Google it, read reviews. Stay away from garbage like "He's Just Not Into You" or "The Rules." They're pure propaganda to make a buck and won't teach you a dam thing. I'm happy to hear you've chosen to walk away! Next step is introspection and resolving your own issues, it's not easy! And I speak from experience when saying that. Good luck! Poppyfields, thank you so much for all of your great insight into this issue. You have really helped me understand things better. I have been back and forth the last few weeks on if he was playing me from the start or if what we had was real. I had such a hard time being able to understand if what we had was so real, how could he be so OK with losing it? I never had anyone look at me the way he does, and he probably knew me better than anyone else in my life. We just understood each other on a deep level. He was always there for me, and I will miss our daily talks more than anything else. I am hoping time helps with this. I have really been struggling with it because everything else with us was so perfect and we really became each others best friends in the last 6 months so it is like I am also dealing with the loss of a best friend, which may hurt even more than the loss of the relationship at this point. However, I know from experience, trying to stay friends after is never a good idea and usually just causes more hurt in the end. In the future, I will ask anyone I start to date what they are ultimately looking for and get a feel for their dating history. I now know the red flags to look for and don't want to go down this road again. I will check that book out, thanks again! 1
Weezy1973 Posted April 24, 2022 Posted April 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Venus080411 said: In the future, I will ask anyone I start to date what they are ultimately looking for and get a feel for their dating history. I now know the red flags to look for and don't want to go down this road again. I will check that book out, thanks again! So I would strongly suggest you take @poppyfields advice, which is introspection and resolving your own issues before you start dating seriously again as opposed to asking "anyone you start to date what they are ultimately looking for". Many people say things like "trust your gut" but for those with a dysfunctional family and relationship history, their gut is usually wrong. So to get what you want, you often have to do the opposite of what you feel like. And that's where resolving your issues comes into play. Take your own relationship history from what you've shared. At the beginning you never saw the flags, including with this guy. Thinking you now know the red flags to look for is going to lead you astray again. Put another way - you're drawn to and attracted to red flags. If you don't focus on yourself and resolving your own issues, guaranteed the next guy you find yourself really attracted to will have screaming red flags, which you won't notice until it's too late. 1 1
Alpacalia Posted April 24, 2022 Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) The only thing you need is better boundaries and to be able to identify when you're not compatible. We can spend an indefinite amount of time contemplating ourselves, but the end result is that we have little more insight into ourselves when we're done than when we began. What questions can enslave us to our past, and what questions can help us shape a better future, have a purpose. Thinking about yourself is not correlated with knowing yourself. Edited April 24, 2022 by Alpacalia
poppyfields Posted April 24, 2022 Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said: I would strongly suggest you take @poppyfields advice, which is introspection and resolving your own issues before you start dating seriously again. I wholeheartedly agree with this. Introspection and self-reflection are absolute musts imo. Speaking personally, I've taken the time to introspect and reflect after every relationship and it's helped me tremendously in gathering valuable insight into determining why I make the choices I do. It's allowed me to learn, grow and evolve. The result being learning new ways to relate, attracting better men, or rather better men for me and making better choices leading to what I ultimately want and desire. Edited April 24, 2022 by poppyfields
Alvi Posted April 24, 2022 Posted April 24, 2022 3 hours ago, Venus080411 said: In the future, I will ask anyone I start to date what they are ultimately looking for and get a feel for their dating history. No, this is not something you ask when you start to date a person. These question you should be asking before meeting in person, if we are talking about on-line dating. "What are you looking" for is probably the very first question that you ask a person. This is something that you discuss before talking about hobbies, jobs or anything else. If you are looking for a long term and he only wants a hook up, that is an automatic no match. No guarantee that you are going to receive a honest answer, of course. But I find that the majority of men on-line are fairly honest about their intentions (but not all). You should screen and weed out people more carefully.
Wiseman2 Posted April 24, 2022 Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Venus080411 said: In the future, I will ask anyone I start to date what they are ultimately looking for and get a feel for their dating history. Unfortunately this won't yield much because they may say "long term" or "marriage" but that doesn't mean with you. Best to not apply so much pressure. Take your time and take the stance of "Is he right for me?", not "Is he another commitment-phobe?". Men can sense marriage-thirty women and these questions can come across as you'll go down the aisle with just about anyone who asks. Edited April 24, 2022 by Wiseman2 3
Alvi Posted April 24, 2022 Posted April 24, 2022 Just now, Wiseman2 said: Unfortunately this won't yield much because they may say "long term" or "marriage" but that doesn't mean with you. Best to not apply so much pressure. While this is true, at least this is a good starting point to weed out some men who are straight incompatible. Of course, who goes on a first meet and thinks: "Hey, I am going to marry this guy or a girl?" Not many I suppose. But at least the two people are on the same page about something. I think if a guy is truly honestly interested, he would not mind a little pressure. God forbid if a woman puts any pressure on a guy, lol. If he is such a delicate flower, well, that is another red flag.
basil67 Posted April 24, 2022 Posted April 24, 2022 While asking what a guy is looking for can be helpful, quietly observing them equally important. You talked earlier about the red flags which were early in the relationship - these are exactly the things you should be looking for. For example, is the guy old enough to want a family? Does he have his life together? Is he financially stable? Is he house trained (cleans, cooks etc)? Does he want to spend enough time with you? You're at the wrong end of your fertility to choose a 'fixer upper'. 2
Weezy1973 Posted April 25, 2022 Posted April 25, 2022 2 hours ago, basil67 said: For example, is the guy old enough to want a family? Does he have his life together? Is he financially stable? Is he house trained (cleans, cooks etc)? Does he want to spend enough time with you? But as she’s admitted, she’s not attracted to the types of men you describe. 1
Woggle Posted April 25, 2022 Posted April 25, 2022 26 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: But as she’s admitted, she’s not attracted to the types of men you describe. Exactly. With all due respect to the OP who is to say if she actually gets what she claims to want from this guy that she won't run the other way. I have seen it happen. Another thing is that while I can't speak for this man many men tend to want to run the other way when we feel that pressure from a woman. Most men are ready to commit when they meet a woman they really do want to share their life with and being around somebody who is always pressuring him and seems to have some sort of larger agenda does not seem appealing. Don't mean to be harsh but it really is the way many men feel.
poppyfields Posted April 25, 2022 Posted April 25, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Woggle said: ...and being around somebody who is always pressuring him and seems to have some sort of larger agenda does not seem appealing. I agree but often times when men (when people) have an irrational fear of commitment, the pressure they feel is self-induced, meaning it doesn't come from anything the woman (or man if roles are reversed) is doing or saying, she may not even want commitment or mentioned commitment. At least not at that time. The pressure they feel comes from within themselves due to their own fears and anxieties. I also agree that there are people who truly believe they want a committed relationship, but when it finally happens, their fear kicks in and they run. Our OP, at 33, has never been in a committed relationship, she chooses men who are unavailable. This is telling and suggests she shares the same fears as the unavailable men she chooses, the difference is their fears are active and hers are passive. She may be totally unaware she even has the fear unless and until she meets a man who wants a committed relationship with her and she suddenly becomes turned off, scared and runs. That will be the true test of her availability. Edited April 25, 2022 by poppyfields
Author Venus080411 Posted April 25, 2022 Author Posted April 25, 2022 28 minutes ago, Woggle said: Exactly. With all due respect to the OP who is to say if she actually gets what she claims to want from this guy that she won't run the other way. I have seen it happen. Another thing is that while I can't speak for this man many men tend to want to run the other way when we feel that pressure from a woman. Most men are ready to commit when they meet a woman they really do want to share their life with and being around somebody who is always pressuring him and seems to have some sort of larger agenda does not seem appealing. Don't mean to be harsh but it really is the way many men feel. Just to be clear, I never asked him to commit and I certainly never pressured him! I was OK with the way things were for now, he is the one who brought it up because he may need to move soon, he was in a work transition, and given all the uncertainty in his life right now, and his age, he was concerned because he knew I eventually wanted a family and I was older. He does too but obviously has nothing else in his life figured out at this point. So I never pressured him...
poppyfields Posted April 25, 2022 Posted April 25, 2022 Just now, Venus080411 said: Just to be clear, I never asked him to commit and I certainly never pressured him! I was OK with the way things were for now, he is the one who brought it up because he may need to move soon, he was in a work transition, and given all the uncertainty in his life right now, and his age, he was concerned because he knew I eventually wanted a family and I was older. He does too but obviously has nothing else in his life figured out at this point. So I never pressured him... Venus, I understand. Read my last post right before yours. 1
basil67 Posted April 25, 2022 Posted April 25, 2022 Thanks @Weezy1973 I missed that she's not attracted to the stable kind of guy. @Venus080411 I went back and found where you wrote about getting bored by the stable guys. I would urge you to rethink choosing a guy who's a train wreck as a father for your future children. A huge part of parenting is role modelling for our children. A guy like the one you've been dating would not be able to support your children with how to become a functional adult. Kids deserve more than this. Yes, I get that you want passion and that emotional connection, but there are men out there who are both functional and passionate. 1
Woggle Posted April 25, 2022 Posted April 25, 2022 There are men who are functional but still have a passion in life and still be able to inspire that connection. Get out of that mindset that dysfunction equals passion and excitement. 2
Ami1uwant Posted April 25, 2022 Posted April 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Venus080411 said: Just to be clear, I never asked him to commit and I certainly never pressured him! I was OK with the way things were for now, he is the one who brought it up because he may need to move soon, he was in a work transition, and given all the uncertainty in his life right now, and his age, he was concerned because he knew I eventually wanted a family and I was older. He does too but obviously has nothing else in his life figured out at this point. So I never pressured him... live scanned through this thread…these are just my thoughts…. on his jobs/ career. im assuming he graduated from college and has an idea of what he wants to do but since his job area is broad across multiple industries he doesn't know yet what he wants to do. the issue in this is how does his career choices affect you such as if he’s interested in a specific industry ut woukd involve him likeky moving. on the abuse issues….. the ramifications of what he went through is a type of attachment disorder which then yields to this fear of commitment. If you want this to go somewhere maybe you should go with him to counseling to try and address this issue of fear of commitment.
Alpacalia Posted April 25, 2022 Posted April 25, 2022 You are wasting a lot of time on a man who has told you very clearly that he can't commit right now and needs time. The truth is, the actual reason a man gives when he says he does not want to commit is irrelevant. Bottom line: Listen to him when he says he doesn't want to commit, and focus on that fact. Put an end to trying to change yourself into an ideal woman you think he will be willing to commit to. 1
poppyfields Posted April 25, 2022 Posted April 25, 2022 On 4/23/2022 at 7:37 PM, Venus080411 said: Thanks to everyone here, I have decided I will be moving on since it seems his issues are much deeper and will take a lot of time to overcome I'm happy to hear this. Live and learn as my late mom would way. Best of luck moving forward!
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