How do you define abuse?

[slubberdegullion]

A recent thread got me thinking about how we define abuse. I'd like LSer's input.

 

Here are a few situations with a hypothetical couple, Leslie and Chris. I've deliberately kept the names androgynous.

 

1. Chris is loading the dishwasher. Leslie says, "That's a very inefficient use of space. Here, do it my way..." and proceeds to take over;
2. Chris is always the one to initiate sex, but Leslie turns Chris down 4 times out of 5. This hurts Chris' self-esteem and Chris feels rejected;
3. Before they were married, the couple decided that Chris would handle the finances because Leslie admittedly isn't very good at it. Leslie now feels that Chris is keeping too tight a rein on the money;
4. Leslie doesn't like being around Chris' family, so Leslie purposely makes alternate plans ahead of time to interfere with Chris' family gatherings;
5. Chris once told Leslie, "You're gaining weight. We should develop a plan so we can both get in better shape." Leslie was offended;
6. Leslie made an apology to a gathering of friends for Chris' behaviour after Chris had too much to drink one night;
7. After being pushed beyond reasonable limits in an argument, Leslie slapped Chris across the face with an open palm.

Which, if any, of these situations could be considered abuse, and why?

[Outcast]

Slub, you don't need LSers' vague ideas of what might constitute abuse to tell you. All you need to do is check out the expert advice

 

http://quark.physics.uwo.ca/~harwood/abuse.htm

http://web-street.com/thingsarelookinup/Boundaries/Controlling.shtml#protecting

http://www.leavingabuse.com/powerwheel.html

http://www.dvirc.org.au/whenlove/checklisttxt.htm

http://www.thans.ca/ami.html

 

Abuse is about a pattern of repeated behaviour, not about one or a couple of isolated incidents unless those incidents include extreme verbal abuse or violence to people or animals.

 

Abusers do try to minimize their behaviour by mocking the idea of abuse by taking their arguments to the extreme and asking, for example, if telling someone once that they have gained weight constitutes 'abuse'.

[slubberdegullion]

Slub, you don't need LSers' vague ideas of what might constitute abuse to tell you. All you need to do is check out the expert advice

I agree that there are LOTS of sites that give an outline of abusive behaviour. I was - and am - curious about the opinions of people on the site, however, because those who peruse here are more likely to be interested in relationship dynamics than someone "off the street."

[Outcast]

Not exactly sure what the point is. It may be someone's opinion that beating someone else black and blue isn't abuse - what use is knowing that to you?

[laRubiaBonita]

for me....anything where i have toa sk if what ever action was abuse...then to me, that is abuse.

 

all the posts that ask "Is this abuse?" i say yes.... if you have to ask, then yes, it is apparently question your morals, and therefore should definately be considered abuse.

[Art_Critic]

One of my sisters used to have this issue where every guy she was with ( husband or BF's ) She said they all had drinking problems.

 

To me ( a sober drunk ) they didn't.. I would try and explain to her that they were not alcoholics..

 

But thru our discussions it came to me that anything that she considered a problem was indeed a valid problem.. Whether I did or not..

 

She had a zero tolerence to drinking and therfore her needs/problems were valid..

 

My point to all of this is.. If you think it is abusive... It is ..

 

If you have a problem with the way someone treats you then it is a problem.. whether anybody else does or not..

[glittergurl]

I don't think any of the examples are abuse. I just think Chris and Leslie are a lame a$$ couple.

[bunnzy]

 

1. Chris is loading the dishwasher. Leslie says, "That's a very inefficient use of space. Here, do it my way..." and proceeds to take over
   It seems that leslie is just wanting to help, but says it in the wrong way in 'do it my way' It is not intentionally trying to tell chris that he'she is doing something 'wrong' just that it may be done better or more efficiently[/code]
   
2. Chris is always the one to initiate sex, but Leslie turns Chris down 4 times out of 5. This hurts Chris' self-esteem and Chris feels rejected;
   There is usually a reason behind sexual rejection, be it physical or a 'missing' piece that lacks feeling of intimacy that must be addressed before this problem can be solved. I do not think it abusive unless leslie isn 'using' sex to get what he/she wants[/code]
   
3. Before they were married, the couple decided that Chris would handle the finances because Leslie admittedly isn't very good at it. Leslie now feels that Chris is keeping too tight a rein on the money;
   Money is something that needs control, what is stopping Leslie and Chris from being flexible and making changes to thier budget? Maybe if Chris sat down with leslie and explained where the money is going leslie would not be worried about it. [/code]
   
4. Leslie doesn't like being around Chris' family, so Leslie purposely makes alternate plans ahead of time to interfere with Chris' family gatherings;
   This is slightly concerning and almost vindictive behanviour. When you marry someone you marry thier whole family. I'm sure if Chris did the same, leslie would be very upset
   
5. Chris once told Leslie, "You're gaining weight. We should develop a plan so we can both get in better shape." Leslie was offended;
   It seems chris was trying to be diplomatic, and is genuinely concerned about leslies weight, it is great that chris wants to work on it together. Leslie needs to get past the offense and see the reasoning that chris is concerned for his/her health.
   
6. Leslie made an apology to a gathering of friends for Chris' behaviour after Chris had too much to drink one night;
   Chris should be making the apology and working on ways to be more responsible when drinking.
   
7. After being pushed beyond reasonable limits in an argument, Leslie slapped Chris across the face with an open palm.
   Even a slap is inexcusable be it by a woman or a man. Everything can be reasonably and rationally discussed, if they were pushed 'bgeyond reasonable limits' the more mature thing to do would be stop, walk away, and talk again later

 

I hope this is more what you are looking for slub?

[Craig]

Just off the top of my head and without thinking it through too much (I may have left something out) and I'm just talking about people here.

 

Abuse is a pattern of recurring pattern of behavior that violates the personal well being of any person such that, generally speaking, the majority of people would consider the abusers actions unreasonable. At the root of abusive behavior is, I think, an insecurity in the abuser that results in a desire to over-control their environment, in a manner that is generally regarded as unreasonable, without regard to how it might affect others. Fear of being vulnerable on the part of the abuser and the reinforcement of a successful cycle of abuse just increases the likelihood of another cycle of abuse.

 

My 2 cents.

[lilmoma1973]

I define abuse as being a mental thing as well as a physical thing!! Abuse to me is when someone tells you how to think or feel!! Makes you look at them while they are talking with you ... They want complete and utter control !!!

[lindya]

Abuse is a pattern of recurring pattern of behavior that violates the personal well being of any person such that, generally speaking, the majority of people would consider the abusers actions unreasonable. At the root of abusive behavior is, I think, an insecurity in the abuser that results in a desire to over-control their environment, in a manner that is generally regarded as unreasonable, without regard to how it might affect others.

 

I think that's a very good description. Ask a psychologist what constitutes workplace bullying, and the chances are that they'll say something like "if the person feels bullied then they are being bullied." I'm not a psychologist - so I'm not in a position to argue. I do wonder, however, how psychologists can so confidently produce definitions like that whilst also supporting cognitive behavioural therapy as a means of altering patients' negative, faulty or destructive perceptions of the world around them.

 

Outside the counsellor's office and in the broader arena of society, the definition of "if the person feels they're being bullied, they're being bullied" is often very inappropriate. For instance a grievance procedure regarding bullying at work would require far more specific grounds. In that scenario the focus is, quite correctly, not just on the feelings of the person who feels bullied but also on the rights of the person who is in danger of being branded a bully.

 

I would say that if a person feels abused, they feel abused - and hopefully they'd be helped by counselling. Where I disagree with some of the other posters is in the notion that if a person feels abused then they have been abused. Before attaching harmful labels like "abuser" to people (which is what one does by reasoning that if A feeling abused by B means she has been abused by B) a little more clarity about what constitutes unreasonable or abusive behaviour is surely required.

[whichwayisup]

There are so many classifications of abuse and everybody has their own thoughts about it.

 

For me, if my husband hit me, that would be abuse. I don't ever have to worry about it as that will never happen.

 

If he treated me poorly (and I'm not talking about having a bad bunch of days and just being behaving like an a**h***) on a regular basis and disrepected me, ignoring me (Yes, giving your spouse the "silent" treatment is a form of abuse, because it's intentional!!), picking at me to make me feel insecure or worthless, that is all abuse in some form. NOW, some may say I allowed him to MAKE me feel that way - Problem is, if someone calls you stupid and ugly enough times, it begins to wear one down and you start believing it.

 

It's not black and white here, it's depends on the situation and the people involved.

[Outcast]

they'll say something like "if the person feels bullied then they are being bullied."

 

I suspect that's because most people do have a reasonable understanding of what constitutes appropriate vs inappropriate behaviour. Those who would see a bully around every corner are the exceptions rather than the rule and therefore would be dealt with accordingly when they voiced their complaints.

 

I still think the instances of real bullying probably still happen much more often and are far more under-reported than instances of people being wrongly accused.

[bunnzy]

I'm sure everyone at one time as been the 'abuser' and the 'victim'

 

What do you guys think?

[lindya]

I'm sure everyone at one time as been the 'abuser' and the 'victim'

 

What do you guys think?

 

Absolutely. The example that first springs to mind is when my life was being made a misery by a couple of people I used to work with (professional jealousy). I tried to cope with it quietly and reasonable for about 3 months....to no avail. I then brought it up at a team meeting. Lo and behold, guess who wanted to raise a grievance against me for "humiliating" them in front of colleagues. They only dropped it when I showed them some of the evidence I'd use in a counter grievance.

 

I agree with Outcast that bullying is rife in certain workplaces and is generally under-reported. Unfortunately sometimes the people who do have the confidence to assert their rights in this area are the very people who have little regard for other people's rights - as well as a lack of awareness of the way that they themselves may be construed as abusive.