How do I date a 'good person' after a toxic relationship?

[poppyfields]

6 minutes ago, Hazel23 said:

Thank you! Another one is How to Love a Nice Guy by Dr. Judith Kuriansky. I just picked it up and hope it helps me fix my chemistry gauge. 

You may realize after reading the book(s) that you don't need to "fix" anything. 

You're just experiencing a different type of emotion with Mr. Nice Guy than you experienced with Mr. Emotionally Unavailable.

One is no better than the other.

Once you're able to accept and embrace what you feel with Mr. Nice Guy, that emotion can be equally as powerful as what you experienced with your ex.

Perhaps even more so but in a different way. 

The books will help you understand that.

Hopefully.

Edited March 11, 2022 by poppyfields

[Ami1uwant]

4 hours ago, Hazel23 said:

Thank you! Another one is How to Love a Nice Guy by Dr. Judith Kuriansky. I just picked it up and hope it helps me fix my chemistry gauge. 

There are two books…..

 

Marry him by Lori Gotlieb

 

the other one I’m blanking on.

 

both talk about mistakes women are making in how they decide who to date seriously and possibly marry.

[NuevoYorko]

7 hours ago, Hazel23 said:

 We're going on our second date tonight. 

So take it easy.   I doubt that you have enough information or experience with this man to know how kind, consistent, financially stable he really is, or whether he does indeed want the same things as you do.  I'm not doubting that he is all that you think he is, but you can't know after a single date.  It will take time to get to know him.

If he turns out to be all that,  it doesn't necessarily mean that you and he are going to be a good fit.  It can take  time to learn that as well.

In any case, you will need to work on yourself and why you are drawn to men who are bad for you completely independently of this new guy or any other fellows you may end up dating.   

[Hazel23]

We had a 5-hour 2nd date last night and he asked me how I would feel about dating him exclusively. Now before the forum freaks out, no one is rushing into anything. I am not "infatuated" with him, I'm infatuated with being emotionally intelligent enough to maintain a healthy relationship with him.  

I thought it was considerate of him to articulate that he doesn't multi-date and thinks it's healthier to be focused soley on one another during these early stages. I agree. Multi-dating is not for me either. I found him handsome, sweet, thoughtful, considerate, and caring the entire evening. He's just a really nice guy, that's all I can really say about him. I do feel attraction to him, I just think it's just going to take some time to get used to being involved with someone who isn't playing games, and wants an honest, true and deep connection. I'm simply excited to have met an EAM who is excited about ME and has similar values and goals, but I am also struggling with being turned off because he's so damn nice. I did cringe inside and tense up when he put his arm around me when we were walking down the street. I tested myself in my head though and thought in that moment "what if he was sending mixed signals, or perhaps an attractive woman was eyeing him?" Then, I suddenly felt OK with his polite touches. The problem is definitely me. This is a handsome, successful in life and career, man who has it together from what I can see. I just need to keep up with the self therapy. I'm excited to see where it goes. Seeing him again tonight for date #3. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Hazel23

[Hazel23]

13 hours ago, Ami1uwant said:

There are two books…..

 

Marry him by Lori Gotlieb

 

the other one I’m blanking on.

 

both talk about mistakes women are making in how they decide who to date seriously and possibly marry.

I'm reading the Lori Gotlieb book right now. It's helpful and makes a whole lot of sense! 

[Alpacalia]

By getting to know yourself again, you can date a suitable partner after an unhealthy relationship.

No. The problem did not start with your ex. It's easy to simply throw it all on him as he is just a jackal we wasted our time and energy on.

It's more likely that your ex reflects what you were taught about yourself or about relationships.

If you face the reality that there is no perfect guy, then you can focus on dating the 'perfect guy' who meets your needs, someone who comes close enough to it. When you are in dire straits, perhaps the ideal guy is someone who lifts you up and makes you feel like a million bucks.

After a sour relationship, dating a good man is like having to learn how to walk again, and nobody tells you this, my friend.

[Gaeta]

12 minutes ago, Hazel23 said:

We had a 5-hour 2nd date last night and he asked me how I would feel about dating him exclusively. Now before the forum freaks out, no one is rushing into anything. I am not "infatuated" with him, I'm infatuated with being emotionally intelligent enough to maintain a healthy relationship with him.  

I thought it was considerate of him to articulate that he doesn't multi-date and thinks it's healthier to be focused soley on one another during these early stages. I agree. Multi-dating is not for me either. I found him handsome, sweet, thoughtful, considerate, and caring the entire evening. He's just a really nice guy, that's all I can really say about him. I do feel attraction to him, I just think it's just going to take some time to get used to being involved with someone who isn't playing games, and wants an honest, true and deep connection. I'm simply excited to have met an EAM who is excited about ME and has similar values and goals, but I am also struggling with being turned off because he's so damn nice. I did cringe inside and tense up when he put his arm around me when we were walking down the street. I tested myself in my head though and thought in that moment "what if he was sending mixed signals, or perhaps an attractive woman was eyeing him?" Then, I suddenly felt OK with his polite touches. The problem is definitely me. This is a handsome, successful in life and career, man who has it together from what I can see. I just need to keep up with the self therapy. I'm excited to see where it goes. Seeing him again tonight for date #3. 

Hazel, you need to ease on the gas pedal. 

This man wanting exclusivity on 2nd date, planning dates 24 hours apart is all redish flags. 

You do not know him, he APPEARS being a prince charming but he's a stranger. You don't know YET if he's playing games or not. You've given this man a badge of honesty when you've met him twice. You're getting too excited too fast, that's how we end up in toxic relationship without realzing it. 

Sorry to rain on your parade. 

[Hazel23]

1 minute ago, Alpaca said:

After a sour relationship, dating a good man is like having to learn how to walk again, and nobody tells you this, my friend.

So true. That's how I feel, like I have to re-learn how to be in a healthy relationship. 

Just to be clear, I don't blame the men of my past or my most recent ex for anything. A snake is a snake, I let it go on too long with the ex because I got sucked in by "the chase", the mixed signals, the game. He was deliberately playing me. Some of these folks out here are very skilled manipulators but the responsibility to protect myself from such predators is mine alone

 

[Hazel23]

3 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Hazel, you need to ease on the gas pedal. 

This man wanting exclusivity on 2nd date, planning dates 24 hours apart is all redish flags. 

You do not know him, he APPEARS being a prince charming but he's a stranger. You don't know YET if he's playing games or not. You've given this man a badge of honesty when you've met him twice. You're getting too excited too fast, that's how we end up in toxic relationship without realzing it. 

Sorry to rain on your parade. 

I hear what you're saying but no one is rushing into anything. The exclusivity he's asking for isn't "ok! now you're my girlfriend!" it's "lets just focus on one another until we figure out what is here between us." Very non-threatening, and I'm all about it. We are middle aged 40s/50s and both of us are dating with intention, so in today's dating culture, I actually appreciate and respect that he would like to date exclusively WHILE WE GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER.

He COULD be playing games, and this is all a big "Mr. Nice Guy" show but he really doesn't exude any of those charming, player type qualities. I can just tell he's not trying to work me over. Plus I don't have the butterflies or any of the other toxic alarms going off. I feel comfortable, and safe around him. I never felt safe or comfortable with the 4 men from my past that I was in toxic relationships with.  Maybe things won't work out with us, but it won't be because he's EU or being dishonest with his intentions. 

There are good people out there and when we meet one, we all will all move at our own pace as the individual connection dictates. I'm not doing anything wrong, there is nothing wrong with being excited to have met someone who checks all my boxes. No one is planning a wedding. I'm just happy to have met a good man, and yes, he is a good man, and I don't need to know him for years to see that. I'm sure he has plenty of undesirable qualities too, just like I do, but at least he's present, kind and caring. What's not to be excited about??

 

[Gaeta]

13 minutes ago, Hazel23 said:

There are good people out there and when we meet one, we all will all move at our own pace as the individual connection dictates. I'm not doing anything wrong, there is nothing wrong with being excited to have met someone who checks all my boxes. No one is planning a wedding. I'm just happy to have met a good man, and yes, he is a good man, and I don't need to know him for years to see that. I'm sure he has plenty of undesirable qualities too, just like I do, but at least he's present, kind and caring. What's not to be excited about??

 

I am mid-50s. It's ok to be excited. It's another thing to call a man *a good man* after 2 dates. No you don't need years to know if you're dealing with a good man, but you need more than 2 dates. Usually people's true colors come out pretty fast, I'd say 6-8 weeks. I mean enjoy the excitment, go out! but wait before saying with so much confidence that he's a good man. You've been in toxic relationships  before, you know at the beginning it's always nice. 

 

[NuevoYorko]

You do need to slow way down.  You have met a man who seems promising at first look, and you are just beginning to get to know him.  

I have no idea whether there are red flags,   but agreeing on exclusivity at the second meeting seems inappropriate.  If he doesn't want to see anyone but you while he learns about you and whether or not you would be a good fit for him, that's fine and it's his own business.    Same goes for you.  That would be a personal decision.  Multi-dating is certainly not for everyone.  At this early stage of dating, though, the only appropriate commitments  would be things like "I will call you tomorrow" or "pick you up at 7:00 Saturday."  

You've mentioned your relationship history.  Back to back unhealthy relationships.  You have not mentioned any actions you have taken to address what's going on with you that has led you to the choices you made.  You have, though, mentioned books you are reading about picking different men.

You are exactly the same person you were a few months ago when you were still in the last of those unhealthy relationships.  Personal change and growth is something that a person needs to take on for themselves,  ideally with some professional help.  Simply picking a man who presents himself differently, or who doesn't inspire butterflies in you,  does not have anything to do with changing your established patterns.  

No relationship or individual is going to do that for you.  It's also a pretty crippling weight to hang on any relationship.  

 

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by NuevoYorko

[Hazel23]

23 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

You do need to slow way down.  You have met a man who seems promising at first look, and you are just beginning to get to know him.  

I have no idea whether there are red flags,   but agreeing on exclusivity at the second meeting seems inappropriate.  If he doesn't want to see anyone but you while he learns about you and whether or not you would be a good fit for him, that's fine and it's his own business.    Same goes for you.  That would be a personal decision.  Multi-dating is certainly not for everyone.  At this early stage of dating, though, the only appropriate commitments  would be things like "I will call you tomorrow" or "pick you up at 7:00 Saturday."  

You've mentioned your relationship history.  Back to back unhealthy relationships.  You have not mentioned any actions you have taken to address what's going on with you that has led you to the choices you made.  You have, though, mentioned books you are reading about picking different men.

You are exactly the same person you were a few months ago when you were still in the last of those unhealthy relationships.  Personal change and growth is something that a person needs to take on for themselves,  ideally with some professional help.  Simply picking a man who presents himself differently, or who doesn't inspire butterflies in you,  does not have anything to do with changing your established patterns.  

No relationship or individual is going to do that for you.  It's also a pretty crippling weight to hang on any relationship.  

 

 

You are totally and completely wrong. Slow way down? From what? I haven't even made out with this guy. We're just talking, spending time and getting to know one another. Talking about the things we both want in a relationship and the future is how bonds are built. I'm thrilled we both agreed not to multi-date. I don't care if it's been 5 mins since I met this guy. And, I've not had back to back unhealthy relationships. I've had 4 toxic relationships over the span of my lifetime! And I'm nowhere near the same person that I was 3 months ago. I've made great strides to educate myself, make better choices and have healthier responses to men who are actually present, available, and sharing in my same values, and life goals. Sorry, Nuevo, but you're WAY OFF. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Hazel23

[Hazel23]

54 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I am mid-50s. It's ok to be excited. It's another thing to call a man *a good man* after 2 dates. No you don't need years to know if you're dealing with a good man, but you need more than 2 dates. Usually people's true colors come out pretty fast, I'd say 6-8 weeks. I mean enjoy the excitment, go out! but wait before saying with so much confidence that he's a good man. You've been in toxic relationships  before, you know at the beginning it's always nice. 

 

First, let me reiterate, I've known this man for 9 mos. While we haven't dated until now, we have had enough interactions and conversations to where I can say with confidence that he is in fact "a good man". Secondly, while I agree with what you're saying that 2 dates is too soon to think someone is a good man,  I also know from the beginning via my intuition when something is off in a new dating situation. Every time I've been involved with an EUM there are certain warning signs that present very early, that I typically ignore while I'm being sucked into the game, but the red flags are still there! I think most people would admit that they knew very early on that the person they were dating was toxic even though they said and did all the right things.

I'm not really up for debating why this guy is a decent and good person and don't want to spend hours on this forum convincing you all that he is. That's not what my post was about. So, let's just all assume he's a great guy, deserving of a good love, because that's what I'm trying to show up for and build on with him.  All I said was we want all the same things, he checks all the boxes as far as values and life goals are considered. This ain't the Tindler Swindler, Loveshack! My feet are on the ground!  

Edited March 12, 2022 by Hazel23

[Allupinnit]

You have a lot of healing to do from your last un-boyfriend and the thought of being with someone else makes you cringe because deep down you still yearn for the ex, even though you know you "should" like this guy because he's good on paper.

Take some time off of men altogether and don't worry about a man right now... they aren't the end-all be-all of life and as you can see often times just serve to complicate everything and take up all of this valuable headspace. 

It's ok to be alone.  We don't always have to be looking for people online to invite inevitable drama in our lives because we're damaged already.  Get the last guy out of your system before you drag someone else into the mess (sounds like he's got issues, too, if he's already asking to be exclusive).

[poppyfields]

Hazel, 

When you talk about your feelings for this man versus what you felt with your previous boyfriends, it very much sounds like you miss those crazy high feelings, feeling a bit off balance, wondering, missing, longing.  You hate it but you love it type of thing..

And you're hoping and wanting to experience those same emotions with this man while also feeling cherished, safe and secure.

Is this true?  It might not be, it's just what I sense from reading your posts. 

In any event, if it is true, this relationship is doomed, sorry.  Try as you might, you're not ready for it and you cannot force yourself to be ready for it, no matter how much you want it or feel you deserve it.

If you were ready, you would not be struggling emotionally attempting to recapture the crazy high euphoric feelings you experienced with your ex's.

This thread wouldn't t even exist! 

Instead, you'd feel attracted to this man, including sexually, and would be embracing the warmth and calm you feel with him.  

Not attempting to train yourself to feel those emotions. 

I'm wondering now if you are somewhat emotionally unavailable yourself?

Reason I ask is you are in your 40s or 50s ( you didn't specify which) and it appears your entire adult life you've been drawn to EU men, which would suggest that you yourself are EU as well.  

You don't want to be which is why you're drawn to such men but then break it off. 

There have been tons of books and articles written about this both on line and off, a good resource if you're interested is a book entitled "He's Scared, She's Scared, the Hidden Fears that Sabotage Your Relationships."

When you wrote you cringed when this man did something as simple as put his arm around you, *I* nearly cringed.  It's not happening Hazel, and again you cannot force it. 

I know you like this man, you respect him, he's kind, checks all your boxes.

But on an emotional level, it's just not happening for you and that is a huge red flag within yourself that needs to be addressed and resolved before proceeding forward with him or any man who isn't an emotionally unavailable "bad boy" who gets your juices flowing in a way the nice guy cannot.

It's not fair to him nor to yourself.  

Fix yourself FIRST.  Love yourself FIRST.  Become whole and complete first.

Then when you meet an emotionally available 'nice guy,' you won't be struggling, fighting with yourself about how you should or should not feel. 

Are you or have you ever been in therapy to help you sort all this out?  

If not I highly recommend.  Look around, a good qualified therapist can be invaluable, it helped me a lot at various times in my life. 

Anyway, just my $.02 fwiw, all the best.  

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by poppyfields

[glows]

24 minutes ago, Hazel23 said:

First, let me reiterate, I've known this man for 9 mos. While we haven't dated until now, we have had enough interactions and conversations to where I can say with confidence that he is in fact "a good man". Secondly, while I agree with what you're saying that 2 dates is too soon to think someone is a good man,  I also know from the beginning via my intuition when something is off in a new dating situation. Every time I've been involved with an EUM there are certain warning signs that present very early, that I typically ignore while I'm being sucked into the game, but the red flags are still there! I think most people would admit that they knew very early on that the person they were dating was toxic even though they said and did all the right things.

I'm not really up for debating why this guy is a decent and good person and don't want to spend hours on this forum convincing you all that he is. That's not what my post was about. So, let's just all assume he's a great guy, deserving of a good love, because that's what I'm trying to show up for and build on with him.  All I said was we want all the same things, he checks all the boxes as far as values and life goals are considered. This ain't the Tindler Swindler, Loveshack! My feet are on the ground!  

Then stick with this and know with quiet conviction that you’d like to continue dating him and seeing where it leads. You may find other resources online such as self-help e-books or visit your local bookstore or used bookstore for recommendations. 

Posting about your relationship on an anonymous forum will be bound to attract all types of opinions and critique of your interpretation. This doesn’t seem to be what you’re looking for so don’t volunteer that info. Go and seek the books you need from places in the business of selling these books.

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, Hazel23 said:

Every time I've been involved with an EUM there are certain warning signs that present very early, that I typically ignore while I'm being sucked into the game...

Hazel, first off I'm sorry you feel we (or some of us) have put you on the defensive; personally for me, it was just my sense from what you posted, I could very well be wrong. 

But I've also been where you are too and so my opinions come from that place as well. 

Anyway, I wasn't going to post again but then read the above quote and wanted to comment on it. 

You say you were "sucked into the game" which suggests you felt like a victim of some EU man's unscrupulous tactics and you had no choice. 

I hope you've realized in retrospect you very much had a choice, another choice, a different choice.

And perhaps the better choice would have been to not accept whatever scraps Mr. EU was offering and walk away. 

But you didn't, you chose, willingly, seeing and acknowledging the red flags, to proceed forward. 

I realize this is a hard concept to understand but that's why I suggested earlier you might be emotionally unavailable yourself. 

It's not uncommon for emotionally unavailable people to be drawn to each other, one passively, the other actively. 

The passive partner is typically unaware of their unavailability (fears) and blames the active EU partner for luring them in. 

Just as you did.

Anyway, nuff said but I hope you will take the time to explore these issues within yourself. 

As I said, I've been there so I understand.   In fact, I'm still in the process of sorting though issues and probably always will be on some level.

Which is OK, but awareness is key. 

Good luck. 

 

[Lotsgoingon]

You are indeed rushing by the fact that you have quickly concluded that you SHOULD like this guy for dating. And you're disconnecting from your body awareness by going into your head and spinning naive stories about who you don't need visceral attraction. 

I did cringe inside and tense up when he put his arm around me when we were walking down the street.

Game over. Sorry, game over.

 

[Ami1uwant]

2 hours ago, Hazel23 said:

First, let me reiterate, I've known this man for 9 mos. While we haven't dated until now, we have had enough interactions and conversations to where I can say with confidence that he is in fact "a good man". Secondly, while I agree with what you're saying that 2 dates is too soon to think someone is a good man,  I also know from the beginning via my intuition when something is off in a new dating situation. Every time I've been involved with an EUM there are certain warning signs that present very early, that I typically ignore while I'm being sucked into the game, but the red flags are still there! I think most people would admit that they knew very early on that the person they were dating was toxic even though they said and did all the right things.

I'm not really up for debating why this guy is a decent and good person and don't want to spend hours on this forum convincing you all that he is. That's not what my post was about. So, let's just all assume he's a great guy, deserving of a good love, because that's what I'm trying to show up for and build on with him.  All I said was we want all the same things, he checks all the boxes as far as values and life goals are considered. This ain't the Tindler Swindler, Loveshack! My feet are on the ground!  

We are just trying to help you from out own experience and the perception of your experience.

 

nobody is saying don’t date him. Just take it slow and get to know him better.

 

i know you have known this person a period of time before dating which is a good thing. After 2 dates you still don’t know enough about him.

 

you knew him from a specific area like say work. Peop,e might have a certain personality at work that is different from their home personality. This can be both good and bad.

 

there might be big difference about you two that makes LTR/ marriage not pisdibke but friendship is fine.  These coukd be differences on religion, personal beliefs, wanting kids, lifestyle choices.   You aren’t really going to know this about anyone after just two dates.

 

from your perspective bias in dating you also could be making some false assumptions about him because he didmpnt show something early on that prior dates did or youare looking at it as new guy didn’t do these things.

 

many people in new dating areas ( both men and women) put out their best in early dates but the underlying things like certain have it or behaviors don’t come out until you are exclusive so they feels they can relax around you.

[mortensorchid]

Glad to hear you found a unicorn, I hear they exist.  Ha ha ha ...

You might as well ask what the meaning of life is, because I don't know that either.  All I can say is remember you are in the middle of infatuation now.  Infatuation wears off, and when it does you see that person before you and they MAY not be who you think they are at this moment.  Take it slowly, don't jump into anything and be sorry later on. 

 

[Lauriebell82]

I have a history of dating (and marrying and divorcing) jerks and now I am almost 5 years into a very serious relationship with a wonderful man. I did actually feel significant chemistry with him right from the start but what has been different about the relationship almost from the getgo is that we have taken our relationship pretty slow. We don't live together and still maintain our independence within our relationship (which is super important for both of us!) We both have kids from our previous marriages and it has been really important that they still know they can count on us. But at the same time we still are heavily invested in each other's kids and our relationship as well. It's a very nice balance. 

All that being said...their have been some challenges over the years we have had to work out. One being the pacing of the relationship. My "timeline" for things has been a little quicker then my boyfriend's so I had to adjust my pace to match his and be a little more patient. I also had to adjust my expectations and be able to slow myself at times when I wanted to speed up. I also had a tendency to look for problems that weren't there (an issue from all my previous toxic relationships) because the calmness that my boyfriend brings to the relationship is super new for me and him always being so sweet and accomodating was not something I knew how to deal with. I have to check myself even now, because at times the calmness is just so FOREIGN. I think I am honestly attracted to choatic relationships and when someone is sweet and wonderful I have no idea what to do with that! So I create my own stuff in my head. But it's getting better. WAY better. Our relationship is so amazing and I wouldn't trade it for anything! All my hard work has paid off for sure! 

My advice is hang in there! Communicate with your boyfriend and don't give up! Therapy has helped me tremendously. Also a program called SLAA (sex and love addicts anonymous) which is a 12 step program similar to AA. I attend phone meetings. The program is for people who attract unavailable partners and want to learn how to be in healthy relationships with healthy partners. This program has proven to be most of my success! You can find it with a simple internet search. Good luck! 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Lauriebell82

[poppyfields]

19 minutes ago, Lauriebell82 said:

I think I am honestly attracted to choatic relationships and when someone is sweet and wonderful I have no idea what to do with that!

@Lauriebell82your entire post was amazing, and I applaud your honesty for admitting you're attracted to chaotic relationships.

It's not an easy thing to admit! 

I was also, and like you I still struggle, but with each new relationship with a good guy it gets better. 

I find balance works best, a nice guy but with an "edge."  I found that with my current guy, and it's working.  Still early stages though, so we'll see. 

Anyway, just wanted to say I loved your post and hope it helps the OP and inspires her to make the right decision (for her) moving forward. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by poppyfields

[Alpacalia]

9 hours ago, Hazel23 said:

So true. That's how I feel, like I have to re-learn how to be in a healthy relationship. 

 

You will.

Try not to focus too much on reading books about what goes on in the minds of men. Focus more on how to improve yourself with the goal of doing it for yourself and yourself only.

 

 

[Gaeta]

On 3/11/2022 at 3:44 PM, Hazel23 said:

Well, we actually met about 9 mos ago and had some conversations but only now have begun dating. We've discussed many of the topics you mentioned above and I feel pretty confident that there are no glaring red flags

Just to clarify your circumstances, you met in person 9 months ago? You've discussed many topics so I imagine your intention was to screen each other to date? Why didn't it pick up from the ground there? Did you lose contact for 9 months after that or you  kept in touch? 

[Gaeta]

On 3/11/2022 at 2:37 PM, Hazel23 said:

I agree, but we are really compatible in all the ways it matters. We have the same values and life goals. We have similar temperaments, and interests. We have the same views of what makes a healthy relationship and share the same love languages.  We both take care of ourselves, eat right, exercise, we are both fit and have similar philosophies on a myriad of topics.

I have discovered not long ago that being 'too alike' sometimes makes a boring relationship and therefore interferes with 'connecting' mentally and physically. I came across this man that was perfect for me on paper, like you and this guy, him and I shared the same interest, both worked in same field, etc etc. I 'forced' myself to like him, I wanted to like him, I told myself I shoud be with a man like him meaning quiet, stable, reliable.....but if that little invisible thing isn't there, it can't be forced.