I'm dating a nice woman but I'm conflicted

[SingFish]

11 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

there is absolutely nothing I can really fault.

Yet still you try! It's a bad habit to look for negatives and not appreciate good times I think. 

[BaileyB]

5 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Taking a guess here based on ZA's "fear of intimacy/fear of commitment" admission but what I think ZA means is that everything came easy with this girl. 

There was/is no uncertainty, no missing, no wondering, no longing.  No pursuing, no chase. 

And for some people who struggle with such anxieties = no attraction (sexual attraction).

It's been said that we tend to value more the things (including people) we have to "work for" a bit.  True for both men and women imo but perhaps more so for men since they're the "hunters" and pursuers. 

Again just my take, ZA feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. 

I can appreciate how strange it feels after struggling to find the right person to suddenly meet someone and it just happens. But, that’s how some relationships start -

That said, after 38 years of wondering, and trying, and being rejected, and feeling lonely - I don’t know, I would think the feeling that he may have is that of gratitude. Appreciation. Joy.

One can either chose to be grateful and appreciate what they have found, or focus on what they wonder is still missing - 

Singfish said it - appreciate the good times, enjoy the companionship - have some fun!! 

Edited April 5, 2022 by BaileyB

[poppyfields]

16 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I can appreciate how strange it feels after struggling to find the right person to suddenly meet someone and it just happens. But, that’s how some relationships start -

That said, after 38 years of wondering, and trying, and being rejected, and feeling lonely - I don’t know, I would think the feeling that he may have is that of gratitude. Appreciation. Joy.

One can either chose to be grateful and appreciate what they have found, or focus on what they wonder is still missing - 

Singfish said it - appreciate the good times, enjoy the companionship - have some fun!! 

I don't disagree with you and ideally yes after many years struggling, logically he should be thrilled to have met a woman who appreciates and accepts him.

But for those who struggle with anxieties and fears surrounding intimacy and commitment, which ZA admitted to in a previous post, it's not always that simple. 

Such anxieties and fears can be complex and run deep within our core, and they're based on emotion, not logic. 

 

[chillii]

6 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

Right, rather than analysing the crapola out of every little nook and cranny that you feel/ don’t feel,  it’s time for you to do something ZA. 
 

For goodness sake will you please just kiss this woman or do something physical at least. You never know you may actually like it. 
 

 

 

Yeah , exactly the things l've been getting at and thought all those things might be the crux of the matter to . Might be wrong he has a real tangled up way of talking about it all butttt, to me it still seems lacking.

Edited April 5, 2022 by chillii

[SingFish]

4 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Such anxieties and fears can be complex and run deep within our core, and they're based on emotion, not logic. 

If it's an anxiety disorder therapy might help. 

I hope you are able to relax and just enjoy things more @ZA Dater 

[chillii]

29 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Singfish said it - appreciate the good times, enjoy the companionship - have some fun!! 

Yeah , whatever's going on with him l agree, he may as well at least enjoy this and just see how it all goes now that he finally has the chance.

[poppyfields]

As odd as this may sound to us 'normal' folks, often times for those who struggle with intimacy /commitment anxiety, the better the relationship, the more caring and loving, the more anxious they feel!  

I know it's sounds totally backwards, and don't have time to get into all the reasoning now, but like I said, I've read a lot about it, my brother struggles with such anxieties, very similar if not identical to ZA, so I understand it.

It breaks my heart because both my brother and ZA (and others who struggle with same), appear to be sensitive and kind and they want to fall in love and develop a deep emotional bond, including sexually, but it evokes so much anxiety, they just can't bring themselves to relax with it and enjoy the process, the journey. 

Every single thing is dissected and analyzed to the nth degree, the overthinking literally never ends. 

I'm speculating of course, perhaps ZA can return and either confirm or deny that this is what he's feeling and experiencing.  

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by poppyfields

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, poppyfields said:

As odd as this may sound to us 'normal' folks, often times for those who struggle with intimacy /commitment anxiety, the better the relationship, the more caring and loving, the more anxious they feel!  

I know it's sounds totally backwards, and don't have time to get into all the reasoning now, but like I said, I've read a lot about it, my brother struggles with such anxieties, very similar if not identical to ZA, so I understand it.

It breaks my heart because both my brother and ZA (and others who struggle with same), appear to be sensitive and kind and they want to fall in love and develop a deep emotional bond, including sexually, but it evokes so much anxiety, they just can't bring themselves to relax with it and enjoy the process, the journey. 

Every single thing is dissected and analyzed to the nth degree, the overthinking literally never ends. 

I'm speculating of course, perhaps ZA can return and either confirm or deny that this is what he's feeling and experiencing.  

 

Again you are pretty much 100% right! For what its worth I have kissed her, more than once actually. 

I am going to try and take the advice of people here and just go with it and try think less. She is incredibly thoughtful and those things do really make a huge difference.

[chillii]

7 hours ago, poppyfields said:

As odd as this may sound to us 'normal' folks, often times for those who struggle with intimacy /commitment anxiety, the better the relationship, the more caring and loving, the more anxious they feel!  

I know it's sounds totally backwards, and don't have time to get into all the reasoning now, but like I said, I've read a lot about it, my brother struggles with such anxieties, very similar if not identical to ZA, so I understand it.

It breaks my heart because both my brother and ZA (and others who struggle with same), appear to be sensitive and kind and they want to fall in love and develop a deep emotional bond, including sexually, but it evokes so much anxiety, they just can't bring themselves to relax with it and enjoy the process, the journey. 

Every single thing is dissected and analyzed to the nth degree, the overthinking literally never ends. 

I'm speculating of course, perhaps ZA can return and either confirm or deny that this is what he's feeling and experiencing.  

 

 

Nah l get that entirely to me it makes perfect sense. lf he is out of his depth, he subconsciously feels it won't even go anywhere anyway , so it doesn't really even matter. But suddenly out of nowhere boom, here it is all there on a platter, this could be real, this could actually go somewhere,  l've seen even experienced people get a bit scared look for excuses and start back peddling. Especially if it's possibly love, l could get hurt. Could well be part of the picture but myself, l don't think it's the biggie,could be wrong.

Anyway good for you then op and l do agree with just trying to relax, enjoy and going with it , never know.

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by chillii

[poppyfields]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Again you are pretty much 100% right! For what its worth I have kissed her, more than once actually. 

I am going to try and take the advice of people here and just go with it and try think less. She is incredibly thoughtful and those things do really make a huge difference.

ZA, one step at a time, one day at a time.  Embrace and appreciate the moment, what's happening in the here and now.

Try very hard to not project to the future,  overthink and analyze. 

You're dating, not getting married.  It's about the journey, not the destination. 

Have fun and enjoy the process. 

[dramafreezone]

16 hours ago, poppyfields said:

As odd as this may sound to us 'normal' folks, often times for those who struggle with intimacy /commitment anxiety, the better the relationship, the more caring and loving, the more anxious they feel!  

 

Well a lot of this is rooted in self-esteem.  A lot of us grow up either witnessing dyfunctional relationships, being constantly told we're less than, or a combination of both.  As such a lot of people have it burned into their psyche that dysfunction is normal, they're not worthy of good things, or both.

For those people, when things are "easy" it's disorienting, they don't trust it and they look for things to support what they've come to know as normal, or they introduce dysfunction themselves into the relationship, or they harbor fears that this other person will "find out" that they're not as good as that person thinks they are.  They feel much more comfortable with dysfunction or people who themselves already have those same insecurities.

ZA (and your brother), hell we all could use therapy, I know I have that comment on repeat but there's no sense in trying to go at this relationship thing alone.  We don't meet enough special people in our lives to just keep hoping that things will just click with the right person.  We have to do our part to make sure that we're fixing oursevles, and that involves enlisting the help of professionals that have expertise in areas where we do not.

Edited April 6, 2022 by dramafreezone

[ZA Dater]

17 hours ago, poppyfields said:

ZA, one step at a time, one day at a time.  Embrace and appreciate the moment, what's happening in the here and now.

Try very hard to not project to the future,  overthink and analyze. 

You're dating, not getting married.  It's about the journey, not the destination. 

Have fun and enjoy the process. 

Appreciate the comments on this thread in general. 

Yeah, the thing with me in general is I make everything about the destination rather than the journey. I am going to TRY to ignore the destination in this instance. There is always a lot of things going on in my life and to be honest most of it is disfunction which has been normalized.

[Trail Blazer]

On 4/6/2022 at 3:30 AM, poppyfields said:

Taking a guess here based on ZA's "fear of intimacy/fear of commitment" admission but what I think ZA means is that everything came easy with this girl. 

There was/is no uncertainty, no missing, no wondering, no longing.  No pursuing, no chase. 

And for some people who struggle with such anxieties = no attraction (sexual attraction).

It's been said that we tend to value more the things (including people) we have to "work for" a bit.  True for both men and women imo but perhaps more so for men since they're the "hunters" and pursuers. 

Again just my take, ZA feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. 

I'll just chalk it down to people being different.  I struggle to comprehend things that are illogical to me.

I've never really had to work hard at all to get a date.  IRL, before OLD was a thing, if I liked a girl I asked her out.  It was clear-cut, she said yes or no.  I didn't entertain games or chase, if I detected any ambivalence.

OLD opened up a smorgasbord of options.  My current girlfriend came about after four Bumble messages and a date the same night we matched.  The easiest date I ever had also happened to be the most amazing woman I've ever met.

To suggest anyone would weight value in someone by some toxic metric like how hard it was to convince them to find enough value to even give you a chance just seems ridiculous and laughable.  But hey, that's just my perspective on the matter.

I guess, as I said, our individual experiences will shape how we see the world.  @ZA Dater's experience are truly... unique, and as empathy goes, I'm struggling to walk a mile in his shoes.

I just hope that OP makes the best of this situation, takes his time, enjoys the ride and doesn't allow his mind to sabotage something that he's fought his whole life to obtain.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Trail Blazer

[ZA Dater]

15 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

Well a lot of this is rooted in self-esteem.  A lot of us grow up either witnessing dyfunctional relationships, being constantly told we're less than, or a combination of both.  As such a lot of people have it burned into their psyche that dysfunction is normal, they're not worthy of good things, or both.

For those people, when things are "easy" it's disorienting, they don't trust it and they look for things to support what they've come to know as normal, or they introduce dysfunction themselves into the relationship, or they harbor fears that this other person will "find out" that they're not as good as that person thinks they are.  They feel much more comfortable with dysfunction or people who themselves already have those same insecurities.

ZA (and your brother), hell we all could use therapy, I know I have that comment on repeat but there's no sense in trying to go at this relationship thing alone.  We don't meet enough special people in our lives to just keep hoping that things will just click with the right person.  We have to do our part to make sure that we're fixing oursevles, and that involves enlisting the help of professionals that have expertise in areas where we do not.

These two bold parts are very true. Nothing I have ever done has been easy, my upbringing was largely devoid of meaningful number of friends and the ones I had were like me, very focused on tomorrow rather than today. All of us were misfits to some degree and I ever heard adults put me down at times which if nothing else just made me ever more determined to prove people wrong. Heck I'll share the fact I went to a few so called "therapists" and they all made me feel far worse when I left than when I arrived.

Indeed it is profound but true we do not really meet enough special people and logically some of us may never meet anyone special at all.

[SumGuy]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Heck I'll share the fact I went to a few so called "therapists" and they all made me feel far worse when I left than when I arrived....

A good therapist is worth their weight in gold, probably because they are so hard to find.  A not so good one can do more damage than good in my experience.

[chillii]

You either know deep down that she really just isn't for you and dodging it, or your just letting yourself get all bogged down with all this crap. But either way it's a very simple answer, hard to do sometimes but simple. Try to just enjoy it man, if you want to be there and spending time with her , try to stop all the rubbish and just enjoy it, go with it, let it find it's own level. Whatever something is to be , will usually begin to just reveal itself all on it's own in time.

[Classicfiction]

Sorry dude, I'm just feeling bad for this woman still.  If I was her and I came across all of this drawn out prose I would feel like crap.  I don't know how many ways you can twist the phrase "I'm just not that into her."  [ ] its like you're describing the comfort of an old shoe at times.  And getting all kinds of female attention for doing so!  

Ive asked this question on here before, is it fear of intimacy/narcissism/whatever that makes a man aloof in certain relationships or is it just the perception of such when a man is just simply not in love?

In my personal experiences as a successful bait chick (yes look that up on urban dictionary), I've found that the men who I deemed aloof, tortured, afraid of real love were simply not into me [ ] .  And they each went on to have successful relationships with other women.

Ask yourself if you are both providing comfort and assurance to one another or if she is providing the comfort and assurance to your mere hesitation.  And how long can you ask someone to stroke your ego, man?  
 

She's going to stroke and stroke and stroke until you feel like a confident man, and then you'll have the [courage] to pursue the types of women you actually want to be with.

[ ] 

Edited April 8, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility, language

[SingFish]

On 4/7/2022 at 7:53 AM, ZA Dater said:

Indeed it is profound but true we do not really meet enough special people and logically some of us may never meet anyone special at all.

That is interesting, because I meet special people all the time, and have throughout my life. So many people just shine with qualities of kindness, passion, calm, enthusiasm etc.

55 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

PS.  All the best ZA keep going, you'll get there. 

I agree. Enjoy the journey!

[Classicfiction]

On 4/7/2022 at 7:53 AM, ZA Dater said:

These two bold parts are very true. Nothing I have ever done has been easy, my upbringing was largely devoid of meaningful number of friends and the ones I had were like me, very focused on tomorrow rather than today. All of us were misfits to some degree and I ever heard adults put me down at times which if nothing else just made me ever more determined to prove people wrong. Heck I'll share the fact I went to a few so called "therapists" and they all made me feel far worse when I left than when I arrived.

Indeed it is profound but true we do not really meet enough special people and logically some of us may never meet anyone special at all.

I'm not really sure where my other comment went about not knowing your full history and granted I didn't read this particular response from you.  But still, you should really try to determine whether this woman is providing you with the comfort and reassurance you missed out on as a child sans the actual attraction.

I had a similar experience growing up as what you're describing.  Had friends but didnt ever quite fit in with anyone.  Got teased and whatnot.  But there's got to be someone out there that gives you the combination of comfort and chemistry.. 

Don't be afraid of not finding this level of attentiveness again.  Loners find people too.  That's my more compassionate response.

[Weezy1973]

10 hours ago, Classicfiction said:

 But there's got to be someone out there that gives you the combination of comfort and chemistry.. 

 

Not necessarily. Unfortunately for some folks they kind of have to pick one or the other. Or a compromise of something in the middle (as opposed to the best of both worlds). For example I know a woman who had a pretty rough upbringing, including sexual abuse, and the men she’s most attracted to now are pretty much by definition men that would be terrible in a relationship or parents. If she wants marriage and kids (and she does) it means she’s going to have to settle for a man that she’s not super attracted to. That’s her reality. It’s one or the other. 
 

[Woggle]

If you are not happy or just not feeling it then by all means break it off but don't keep dragging this woman along.

 I will say that a healthy relationship is supposed to feel comfortable and safe and from somebody who dabbled in it between marriages the player lifestyle is not all it is cracked up to be. 

[poppyfields]

ZA, just wanted to chime in and say I for one applaud you for acknowledging and owning your fears and anxieties, that is the first step toward resolution.

I say keep going with her. Continuing working on your fears/anxieties,  I do understand how very real they are to you.

Both on your own and with the help of a good qualified therapist in the field.

Despite your inner conflict, which I also understand is very real to you, it sounds to me like you have a tremendous amount of respect for her and care about her very much.  And vice versa, which is more than some even many more 'normal' couples have.

As I said in previous post, finding who's right isn't always as simple as some make it out to be. 

I wish you the best of luck and please keep us apprised of any new developments. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

ZA, my very wise dad once said this to me when I was struggling trying to determine whether to remain in a relationship or leave.

I always needed a "challenge" at least on some level and his words had a profound effect on me, to this day!

He said (paraphrasing):

"poppy, instead of running away (my typical style back then), why not consider it a 'challenge' to stick around, stand still with each other for awhile  Standing still with your SO versus running off in search of something or someone you may never find may be the biggest and most rewarding challenge you will ever face in your entire life."

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by poppyfields

[ZA Dater]

So I spent a lot of time with her over the weekend and as someone said its all very comfortable maybe I wrongly thought relationships are not comfortable and full of compromise. A lot of how we see things is perhaps perception. 

There is a degree of harmony here, we never sort of argue about anything, I am happy to compromise, she is happy to compromise so this is all very good, especially when I look around me and most people seem to continually argue with their partner.

She seems to love the thoughtful things I do, arrange a special lunch with a platter I know she likes, things like that are easy for me to do and I like doing them, maybe this time the things I am sort of good at do carry some weight.

My goal now is to try compartmentalize everything that is good about this away from the vast patches of my life which are not so good.

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 

My goal now is to try compartmentalize everything that is good about this away from the vast patches of my life which are not so good.

Which patches of your life are currently not so good?