I'm dating a nice woman but I'm conflicted

March 30, 2022

11 hours ago, BaileyB said:

In December, when you first posted, you said you had been on four dates with the woman. It’s now been four months.

At some point, you will need to progress this relationship or let her go.

If you are not feeling it by now, you really should let the woman go so that she can find a man who is excited to be with her. No woman wants to be in a relationship with a man who has to convince himself because she doesn’t meet all of his expectations.

Its not really about her at all, its more about me and maybe I just need to stop trying to overthink.

March 30, 2022

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Its not really about her at all, its more about me and maybe I just need to stop trying to overthink.

I used to post on another popular forum years ago, that forum is no longer around but anyway there was a male poster very much like you ZA, he had never been in a relationship, about your age.

He met a woman on line and began dating her and oh brother, he dissected that relationship AND his feelings to the nth degree, the pros and cons of continuing the relationship versus being single.

Just like you're doing.

He thought she was great but he also missed his single life, even if it was nothing more than going home after work and tossing a pizza in the oven.

He liked being alone.

He would discuss this with her, she hung in for awhile but after about 6 months she broke up with him.

Goodness gracious, now the forum had to hear about how much HE missed her!! And realized how much he loved her!

He didn't realize it when they were together, it took her LEAVING for him to realize it.

I recall feeling frustrated thinking "why can't a man realize his feelings when he HAS the woman, why does it take her leaving for him to realize"?

I can't remember but I may have asked him the same question.

I came to understand this is a very common thing for some men, some women too.

It's about FEAR.

Anyway, he spent several months attempting to get her back and we (on the forum) heard every sorted detail.

The forum shut down after that but I kept in touch with some members and discovered he married her two years later and was the happiest he had ever been in his life, they even had a kid together!

Thought you might find this interesting ZA FWIW.

Edited March 30, 2022 by poppyfields

April 1, 2022

I think on some level I have figured out what the problem is here, on some level I would not mind experiencing some of that "player" lifestyle I see around me most of the time. Then again I have to also concede not many people relatively speaking get to take incredibly attractive people out never mind sleep with them so I guess would be best for me to try forget about that idea.

April 1, 2022

ln other words unfortunately though, that means it's just back to what l originally suggested, your just not that into her. Believe me you wouldn't be thinking of other hotter women and what your missing out on already so early in and especially when you haven't even had a physical relationship with her yet, if you wanted her.

April 1, 2022

[ ]

And to segue, on this woman you are seeing. Why not get physical if she wants to? There is no requirement this has to be rest of your life stuff. She is a grown woman who can make her own decisions and as long as you don't promise her the rest of your life why not? So it may not work out, that is exactly why people date, have sex, and hang out to see if it will. You don't need to feel that this is THE ONE, to have sex, pretty sure she does not feel that way, AND there really is no certainty even when you feel they are THE ONE.

My view is you are way, way over thinking this. Looking for way too much certainty, too soon (so much so it looks like a defensive mechanism and self sabotage).

Converse, have laughs, have fun, have good conversations, have sex. Enjoy the moment instead of judging and trying to quantify if it is enough. Even if she is not THE ONE, having fun together doesn't mean you are settling; it's not like you are proposing marriage.

You also lack some core data in your thinking on this. Until you have an actual physical relationship it's all just mental masturbation.

Edited April 1, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
off topic

April 1, 2022

2 hours ago, SumGuy said:

As have said before...based on how you write about it...you think of it all "wrong", and are way off on what makes it attainable or not, or what it is really all about. I say that from personal expereince and that of friends who have attained this unattainable and we are no where near in having what you think it requires. Although we do have things you discount and don't think matter.

A quick case in point, "Nobody could compete with those ladies in terms of looks." This could mean a lot of things but suspect it means how you see them when all prepped. Make-up, hair, clothes, the works versus the next morning, no make-up, no clothes and hair all a mess. Make-up, hair, clothes, etc. helps a lot; it's fairly easy to clean up good. Trust me, a lot of women can compete in that regard.

What is the allure of that lifestyle? Is it simply the public attention of such beautiful women? In other words status?

As to being unsuited to that lifestyle, in what way? From what have read if you loosened up some perhaps you would do better.

And to segue, on this woman you are seeing. Why not get physical if she wants to? There is no requirement this has to be rest of your life stuff. She is a grown woman who can make her own decisions and as long as you don't promise her the rest of your life why not? So it may not work out, that is exactly why people date, have sex, and hang out to see if it will. You don't need to feel that this is THE ONE, to have sex, pretty sure she does not feel that way, AND there really is no certainty even when you feel they are THE ONE.

My view is you are way, way over thinking this. Looking for way too much certainty, too soon (so much so it looks like a defensive mechanism and self sabotage).

Converse, have laughs, have fun, have good conversations, have sex. Enjoy the moment instead of judging and trying to quantify if it is enough. Even if she is not THE ONE, having fun together doesn't mean you are settling; it's not like you are proposing marriage.

You also lack some core data in your thinking on this. Until you have an actual physical relationship it's all just mental masturbation.

Sincerely thank you for this bold section, I needed to read this. In some respects you have lifted the world off my shoulders and for that I am very thankful. The only issue I have with it is I'd effectively be wasting her time would I not? Instead of wasting it with me she could be going out looking for guys who want potentially long term, at 45 its not like she is 28 or 32. This part really conflicts me as does the fact my own prospects are very, very poor. Conversely she also does not have a lot of the issues those ages have and we do get along really well and there is no real downside.

[ ]

Edited April 1, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
off topic

April 1, 2022

41 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Sincerely thank you for this bold section, I needed to read this. In some respects you have lifted the world off my shoulders and for that I am very thankful. The only issue I have with it is I'd effectively be wasting her time would I not? Instead of wasting it with me she could be going out looking for guys who want potentially long term, at 45 its not like she is 28 or 32. This part really conflicts me as does the fact my own prospects are very, very poor. Conversely she also does not have a lot of the issues those ages have and we do get along really well and there is no real downside.

She has been actively pursuing you, and she is a grown adult who can make her own decisions. Let her decide if she is wasting her time.

As there are no guarantees that things will work out when we date, in sense it is all a "waste of time" but in reality none of it is as there is no other way to know than to put in time.

I also believe you two are far from the place where one questions how things are moving along and I have a strong feeling you are not promising her this or that.

Think on this, she is looking for guys. She found you. She wants to give you a try and see. So far what she sees and knows is enough to keep going. Respect her ability to make her choices, respect her and yourself that there is something very much worth liking in you.

To say you are new at this is an understatement. It's understandable you are questioning and wondering if there is enough there or not. You have no real expereince in this. This is your first time. Believe me I. and bet most of us here. made big mistakes the first time and suffered the "didn't know what we had until it was gone" story. I know that story.

That is my 50+ something guy caution to you. From what I read here, you have a lot more than you feel you have. It may turn into more than you think, or may not, but the only way to know is to try, give it a go. You'll have more regrets if you don't try than if you do and it does not work out.

Circling back to the beginning, I really do not think you have the skill set to lead her on even if you wanted to. No offense intended. Count that as some good inner character.

I really don't know the nature of your conversations, your trust in her, and what she knows of you experience or lack thereof, but if me and felt I might be leading her on would be honest not sure how deep my feelings are but also bee honest as this is your real first time you don't really know how to know. That's some real vulnerability there, but also honesty.

I do believe it is critical if you tell her you are not certain how deeply you feel that you make sure you are honest about your complete lack of expereince here.

In your case there is no reason for you to know how to navigate this. Perhaps that is a much better analogy or way to put it. You do not know how to navigate this, you are at sea because this is the very first time you have been on the ocean. Straining my metaphors a bit, but analogy and metaphor works well in such emotional spaces, attempted precision for the inherently imprecise is a trap. I suspect this is disconcerting to you, more than most, as suspect your day to day and in professional life you got it in control, there is some certainty on what to do and how to do it.

Relationships don't; really work that way, or as easily that way. That you do have some certainty about having fun together, connection, enjoying each others company. To me that is evidence of you two got a lot going for you, more than you may realize. So don't let a lack of the "wow" you thought would be there stop this from becoming more or doing more.*

*Note this is different advice I'd give to someone who has been in half a dozen relationships (that include sex etc.) that have lasted any length of time. After that you generally have an idea of how you react, what really does it for you in reality and day to day (not surface dates). Also little secret, when someone can blow your mind in bed (or vice versa) they can go easily go from a 7 to a 10 no problem, add in if they can blow you mind in the things you like to talk about and do...you have a unicorn there my friend.

April 1, 2022

10 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I think on some level I have figured out what the problem is here, on some level I would not mind experiencing some of that "player" lifestyle I see around me most of the time.

You’ve had thirty some odd years to experience the “player” lifestyle and you haven’t done so - what makes you think things are different now?

Edited April 1, 2022 by BaileyB

April 2, 2022

21 hours ago, BaileyB said:

You’ve had thirty some odd years to experience the “player” lifestyle and you haven’t done so - what makes you think things are different now?

Wanting and being able are two very different things.

Anyway we had a date this afternoon and a breakfast tomorrow so things are moving.

Edited April 2, 2022 by ZA Dater

April 3, 2022

14 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Wanting and being able are two very different things.

Anyway we had a date this afternoon and a breakfast tomorrow so things are moving.

Is intimacy part of the equation moving forward?

April 3, 2022

Yeah exactly. And do you actually even want that with her za ?

April 4, 2022

Given that you were at one time contemplating paying to have a sexual experience with a woman, I would think that you would be very interested in exploring this opportunity…

April 4, 2022

53 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Given that you were at one time contemplating paying to have a sexual experience with a woman, I would think that you would be very interested in exploring this opportunity…

This makes sense however if @ZA Dater has a 'fear of intimacy' or 'fear of commitment' which is a strong possibility from everything he's posted not to mention very real fears some people experience, the idea of becoming sexually intimate with a woman he has formed an emotional attachment to would be much too frightening to even consider.

The anxiety it would evoke, just considering it, is enough for him to want to avoid it as long as possible.

JMO having researched a bit about such fears and their impact on developing close intimate relationships.

Apologies ZA for speaking of you in the third person, it's up to YOU whether or not you want to explore and consider the possibility.

I would suggest you do but again your call, good luck.

Edited April 4, 2022 by poppyfields

April 4, 2022

On 12/18/2021 at 6:26 AM, ZA Dater said:

It might interest some that I have four dates with the same person and taken her to one event. As always I am going to very honest with you, my virtual friends and confidants, its maybe not what I thought it would be, she is besotted with me (Elaine will like the fact she is 44) but not sure I feel the same. She is very nice to me, invited me to a picnic and brought a variety of lunch for to pick from, this did touch me a bit. I have kissed her. We like a lot of the same things which I think helps everything a bit so there is a lot of conversation.

I went to an event with her and met her group of friends which really was not really my cup of tea but it was OK, I could handle it. What it did perhaps make me realise is a lot of what is said here is fundamentally true re social circles. As usual I did not fit in too well but I expected that so just did the best I could in the situation I was put in. What I did not like was all the talk of doing mushrooms during a weekend away they all went to.

Maybe I just like the chase more than the reality, my absolute focus on work and the way my entire life has become designed around that has been thrown into sharp focus. Maybe the wow I chase fades with time? Maybe I do not actually need anyone at all? It is different not having to put in tons of work to be attractive and having to sell myself like a used car salesman sells a car on the last day before payday.

Maybe inherently my nature is to always look for "better". Maybe its really difficult to come from a position of being a loner to suddenly having someone wanting to spend time with me. She does not come with most of the drawbacks I usually find but equally I find it odd she finds anything attractive about me at all.

Very conflicted at the moment.

Know how you feel I feel the same. Have u been single long? It's that for me gotten use to being on my own doing what I like when I like

April 4, 2022

On 3/31/2022 at 12:42 AM, poppyfields said:

I used to post on another popular forum years ago, that forum is no longer around but anyway there was a male poster very much like you ZA, he had never been in a relationship, about your age.

He met a woman on line and began dating her and oh brother, he dissected that relationship AND his feelings to the nth degree, the pros and cons of continuing the relationship versus being single.

Just like you're doing.

He thought she was great but he also missed his single life, even if it was nothing more than going home after work and tossing a pizza in the oven.

He liked being alone.

He would discuss this with her, she hung in for awhile but after about 6 months she broke up with him.

Goodness gracious, now the forum had to hear about how much HE missed her!! And realized how much he loved her!

He didn't realize it when they were together, it took her LEAVING for him to realize it.

I recall feeling frustrated thinking "why can't a man realize his feelings when he HAS the woman, why does it take her leaving for him to realize"?

I can't remember but I may have asked him the same question.

I came to understand this is a very common thing for some men, some women too.

It's about FEAR.

Anyway, he spent several months attempting to get her back and we (on the forum) heard every sorted detail.

The forum shut down after that but I kept in touch with some members and discovered he married her two years later and was the happiest he had ever been in his life, they even had a kid together!

Thought you might find this interesting ZA FWIW.

Yep you're on the money re men and this experienced it many times. It's the male masculine energy. We have a pull for independence but if the woman just realises this process within men we come back like an elastic band it's inbuilt in our nature

April 4, 2022

On 4/1/2022 at 5:10 AM, ZA Dater said:

I think on some level I have figured out what the problem is here, on some level I would not mind experiencing some of that "player" lifestyle I see around me most of the time. Then again I have to also concede not many people relatively speaking get to take incredibly attractive people out never mind sleep with them so I guess would be best for me to try forget about that idea.

You can try it out if you really want to. Go to your local mall or place where a lot of people gather/pass by and ask out every woman that you're attracted to. Do that every day for the next year. Eventually just by the law of averages you will get phone numbers, and some of them will actually pick when you call/text, and some of those will go out with you. In the process you'll actually probably get pretty good at talking to women too.

You do this enough and then you'll have multiple women that you're talking to at once. If that "player" lifestyle is appealing to you then that's what it takes. People don't realize that players work really hard at that job. They don't just sit around and wait for the women to come to them.

I'm not convinced that lifestyle is really appealing to you. The entire point was to just get one woman, you said you just wanted one, now you have her and you're unfulfilled. I think if you were to do the "player" thing that would also leave you unfulfilled.

Edited April 4, 2022 by dramafreezone

April 5, 2022

On 4/4/2022 at 3:39 PM, Goodguy05 said:

Yep you're on the money re men and this experienced it many times. It's the male masculine energy. We have a pull for independence but if the woman just realises this process within men we come back like an elastic band it's inbuilt in our nature

Classic but l can't say as l or guys l've known would relate apart from wanting to keep at least some freedom, or all of it and so they just refuse point blank to get involved, but they know it. At the same time l could well see a scenario like this with some nonetheless once they finally do have it though, men or women, have seen it in a few women. l don't think it's the thing with za though but eh, it might be. l just couldn't see it stopping some physical though but he doesn't sound fussed at all in that department.

Edited April 5, 2022 by chillii

April 5, 2022

On 4/4/2022 at 4:05 AM, poppyfields said:

This makes sense however if @ZA Dater has a 'fear of intimacy' or 'fear of commitment' which is a strong possibility from everything he's posted not to mention very real fears some people experience, the idea of becoming sexually intimate with a woman he has formed an emotional attachment to would be much too frightening to even consider.

The anxiety it would evoke, just considering it, is enough for him to want to avoid it as long as possible.

JMO having researched a bit about such fears and their impact on developing close intimate relationships.

Apologies ZA for speaking of you in the third person, it's up to YOU whether or not you want to explore and consider the possibility.

I would suggest you do but again your call, good luck.

Pretty much all of this is true. From my mind to your keyboard.

She really, really likes me overall which I guess is in itself very unusual for me. Honestly I think the real problem I have is I thought having someone would change my life and yes it is nice to have someone to go to breakfast with, we went for a massage last weekend, we go to dinners, we cooked together last week, its all very wholesome GOOD experiences, there is absolutely nothing I can really fault.

I guess in some ways all this arrived very easily, I never felt like I had to sell and graft and try extract a win from a near impossible situation.

April 5, 2022

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I guess in some ways all this arrived very easily, I never felt like I had to sell and graft and try extract a win from a near impossible situation.

That’s what dating is - especially dating the right person - it feels good and it feels easy.

You have crafted this idea in your mind that you need to be something you are not to get the attention of the beautiful people. We have told you for years - you don’t, the right person will like you for you you are.

Overthink this and self sabotage if you must, guaranteed you will be back six months to a year later lamenting the fact that you had it good and wonderful with a woman once - and you want that again.

Edited April 5, 2022 by BaileyB

April 5, 2022

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I thought having someone would change my life

This experience/relationship has the potential to change your life, but it won’t change your life in the way that you thought it would change your life. That’s what’s confusing you -

Edited April 5, 2022 by BaileyB

April 5, 2022

Then if that is right it's a good thing and you are def' over thinking it all too even self sabotaging a little in avoidance, but it's been a long long time for you, not surprising. And no it won't change things that much so early bc you are going very very slowly and it's nowhere even near any normal relationship or firing up as yet.

But tell us, if you'd rather not fair enough don't. But if that is how it is, do you love holding her kissing her touching, are you dying to sleep with her, desiring her. ?

Edited April 5, 2022 by chillii

April 5, 2022

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Pretty much all of this is true. From my mind to your keyboard.

She really, really likes me overall which I guess is in itself very unusual for me. Honestly I think the real problem I have is I thought having someone would change my life and yes it is nice to have someone to go to breakfast with, we went for a massage last weekend, we go to dinners, we cooked together last week, its all very wholesome GOOD experiences, there is absolutely nothing I can really fault.

I guess in some ways all this arrived very easily, I never felt like I had to sell and graft and try extract a win from a near impossible situation.

Dude, what!? After 38 years you're finally in a relationship and after everything you've been through to get here, you say it arrived easily?

April 5, 2022

Every relationship in life is a learning experience. Nothing is absolute or finite. Relationships are not static.

What is this woman like? What does she care about, how does she enjoy spending her time, is she close with friends and family or not, does she have any qualities that you find endearing or attractive, does she bring out anything good or bad about you. Are you learning about her; are you interested in her?

April 5, 2022

Right, rather than analysing the crapola out of every little nook and cranny that you feel/ don’t feel, it’s time for you to do something ZA.

For goodness sake will you please just kiss this woman or do something physical at least. You never know you may actually like it.

April 5, 2022

2 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Dude, what!? After 38 years you're finally in a relationship and after everything you've been through to get here, you say it arrived easily?

Taking a guess here based on ZA's "fear of intimacy/fear of commitment" admission but what I think ZA means is that everything came easy with this girl.

There was/is no uncertainty, no missing, no wondering, no longing. No pursuing, no chase.

And for some people who struggle with such anxieties = no attraction (sexual attraction).

It's been said that we tend to value more the things (including people) we have to "work for" a bit. True for both men and women imo but perhaps more so for men since they're the "hunters" and pursuers.

Again just my take, ZA feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited April 5, 2022 by poppyfields

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