How Can We Handle These Conflicts Better?

[Love2Love78]

My girlfriend and I are trying to fix a recurring issue that has been ongoing off and on for almost a year now (since we started dating). Bear with me, as there's a lot to cover, and I want it to be thorough so we can get feedback from an informed perspective.

The recurring issue we have is a breakdown in communication that leads to arguments. Generally, I say something or ask something, she takes it in a negative or critical way (when at least 85% of the time, I don't mean it that way), and before I can clarify the intent behind what I said, she is too angry to be receptive. The anger leads to her yelling, name calling, insults, hurtful comments, threatening the relationship, or altogether ending it. I try to do my best to remain calm at those times, but after she is upset, it's rare that I can ever do anything to fix it at the time. I just hate walking away and leaving it alone when she took something the wrong way while in my eyes, she is hurt, upset, and/or angry purely over a misunderstanding. It's also nerve-wracking walking away when she has ended the relationship. It freaks me out, as I love her in a way I've never loved anyone else before in my 44yrs of life. Every time, I wonder if this is the last time, if I may have lost her permanently, and it breaks my heart.

After she does calm down (hours, days, or sometimes weeks) and we're able to have a calm conversation about it, then she is receptive to clarification and can understand where the miscommunication happened. The problem is, by that time, the damage is already done. And even then, she will oftentimes still question my real intentions, like I am possibly lying to her in order to reconcile. I have tried to tell her that makes no sense, as if she can’t deal with my intentions and who I genuinely am, this wouldn’t work. But, she still usually has lingering doubts at that point, doubts that seem to be accumulating with every argument.

Some of the problems on my end is I can tend to be very blunt, and since I'm scattered (ADHD), it can be very hard to read my body language accurately. This ties into her reasoning behind getting upset. She says rather than what I say, she relies more on my tone, body language, and "past things" (which I feel is predominantly comparing it to other arguments, which of course makes this even harder). She also told me she believes "her feelings" over anyone's words. However, I strongly feel those feelings have been compromised by past traumas and subconscious fears. She also bases it off what she called "vibes and such." So, in that regard, I don't see any way at all to handle that. I can't do anything to change her "vibes" or her feelings when I talk. I've been working on approaching topics more sensitively, in a more round about way, and we've established some topics we just can't talk about altogether. I'm also now trying to pay attention to my tone and my body language, but that is entirely new to me since I haven't my entire life (44yrs old now). I have tried to explain to her that her vibes are wrong, where I believe they are coming from, but she doesn't believe me.

I do feel she at least has some doubt about them, or by now, she would believe I am a terrible human being. A part of what doesn't make sense is how I'm a giver. When with her, I regularly do things for her. Massages, washing her hair for her, asking where she wants to go or do, asking what she wants to watch when we watch TV, cleaning up around the house at times, feeding the cats, brew her coffee in the mornings (I'm almost always up first), make an effort to be a part of her children's lives, and so much more. My actions are in complete contradiction to someone who is critical, looking to hurt her emotionally, etc. But, she seems to dismiss the cognitive dissonance when she is believing I have ill-intent.

On her end, she has made a huge and very noticeable effort towards remaining calmer, and I know she is really trying hard like I am, but we still have these arguments at times.

We've tried a few different ways to resolve it to no avail. I've asked her to please ask me what my intent was, or let me know how she took something I said, before getting angry. It doesn't work though, as by the time she took something in a negative way, she's already too angry to talk rationally about it. My frustration of course is that I feel if she would just ask for clarification when she takes something the wrong way, it would avoid at least 85% of our arguments, would keep her from getting hurt, and we'll be amazing again.

The best we've done so far is like I said, I now avoid certain topics altogether, have to approach other topics VERY delicately, and she does her best to keep her calm when it happens. But even then, I will sometimes say something that I feel is completely harmless, and she gets upset with me before I even know why. So, we need more ideas of ways to work on this that can help more.

We know there is some core issue not being addressed here. Her last serious relationship was 7yrs ago, and she had the same off and on relationship conflicts we have. Different problems, but the same pattern. I do feel a lot of our conflict comes from negative assumptions on her part as a defense mechanism (but she views them as those vibes or feelings about what I'm saying). Another way to look at it is triggers based on past traumas. While she could take some of my comments multiple ways, I feel sometimes, she takes it the worst way possible and insists that was what my intent was. But, talking about negative assumptions hasn't helped.

We just recently started talking about figuring out the core issue, as whatever it is, it isn't going away on its own. In my opinion, I feel it is fear based triggers based on past trauma. My reasoning is the recurring pattern from her past traumatic relationship. Second is I have described the situation in detail to a psychologist I talk to, and she felt the root of the problem was unhealed traumas from her previous relationship (which is why it's a similar pattern). Third, she is not like this with anyone else I have seen her interact with. With everyone else, she is very patient, understanding, compassionate, loving, etc. Of course, that just makes it hurt that much more when you feel she treats others far better than you at times. She says it's because no one else hurts her like I do, but I don't know how to get her to understand I NEVER mean to.

While my girlfriend feels it's a personality conflict (which to an extent in some circumstances, it is), I feel that has very little to do with it most the time, as even then, if negative assumptions didn't happen about my intent, or clarification was asked before she reacted to it, the arguments wouldn't happen at least 90% of the time. The reason I say this is when she is calm and collected after the fact and I clarify why I said what I said, she then sees that with that being the case, there wasn't a need to argue about it.

So, we need to figure out a way to handle these conflicts more effectively and prevent them from escalating. We have read some of a relationship book together and other resources, and it has helped to a small extent, but not enough yet. Also, while I have been seeing a psychologist for a while now due to past issues, she just started seeing one recently. Only one session so far, but I’m sure that will help us as well. Want to do couples counseling, but our finances are tough right now. It is something we want to do though.

Her main focus right now is fixing her depression. She’s going through some really bad depression, so her priority with her counseling right now is to work on that. She has always dealt with some depression to some extent, but our prior issues with arguments exacerbated it. She feels she regressed as far as progress that she has made over the years after her break up seven years ago with her last serious relationship. In my opinion though, I feel it is issues that were just never resolved, and she dodged them by not having a serious relationship. When she had a serious relationship again, those issues came right back to the surface. But, that’s just my best guess and my psychologists, but my psychologist has never talked directly to her. She’s just going by the feedback I gave her so far.

On a good note, for the first time ever, we were able to implement the speaker/listener technique a couple times recently. Yet another example that I know she is working with me on this, as I know it was VERY hard for her to do it when she was angry. But, while not perfect, we did it, and our conflict went FAR better than how it normally does.

And before you give any feedback, no, breaking up isn't an option. We are a family, have a connection neither of us have ever had before, and we are determined to fix this, know we can fix this, but just need help fixing it.

With that said, we'd love feedback from you guys about a few things. One, how to handle the conflicts more effectively while we fix the core issue. Two, how to dig into the core issue and make sure we know what it is (I've seen some online resources, but would love to hear feedback on what ones you guys feel are the most effective). Three, if you don't feel unhealed wounds from her past is contributing at all, then any idea what the root cause could be? Four, assuming it is wounds from her past relationship that haven't fully healed, what we as a team can do about that to help the healing process (I do know with 100% certainty she is over him, it would just be remaining trauma)? We appreciate any help you guys can give us.

[chillii]

Oh Jezuz.

Didn't even bother reading past all the anger and insults before it even starts, those are her issues. She has crap and all the pasts and the hurt and excuses and bla bla bla that those type seem to think is a valid right to act like idiots . Send her to therapy or yourself out the door..

[Gaeta]

28 minutes ago, Love2Love78 said:

The anger leads to her yelling, name calling, insults, hurtful comments, threatening the relationship, or altogether ending it.

Verbally abusive

Condescending

Disrespectful

Cruel

Manipulative

There is no changing her and her ways. She is dysfunctional and only therapy could, only could and maybe, get through to her.

As for you, you speak and act like a true victim of abuse. You've lost all sense of what is right or wrong,  yes a breakup is an option. It's the only option. You were fine before her. You will be fine without her.

 

[ExpatInItaly]

I can't in good faith give advice to help you continue this chaotic, unhealthy and emotionally abusive relationship. 

Sorry OP, but I would be out the door. There are times when it's best to end it. This is one of those. 

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, Love2Love78 said:

 I regularly do things for her. Massages, washing her hair for her, asking where she wants to go or do, asking what she wants to watch when we watch TV, cleaning up around the house at times, feeding the cats, brew her coffee in the mornings  make an effort to be a part of her children's lives, and so much more. 

This is way too much too soon. You need to stop injecting yourself in her and her kid's lives this much. 

Also stop spending this much time together. It's unclear how asking what to watch on TV , what to do etc, is anything but annoying

While you can not implore her to seek medical and psychological treatment for her mood disorders, you can take note.

The dramatic on/off wild arguments is not as simple as a communication issue. She is correct that it is more likely due to incompatibilities and personality conflicts.

Step way back from this.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Wiseman2

[balletomane]

You've posted about this woman multiple times and received lots of advice. In previous threads you responded to that advice with long posts justifying your actions and choices and explaining why the perspectives here are wrong/the advice won't work. Has anything changed? If not, I'm not sure there's much point in another thread that covers the same ground - everything that was said before still applies.

Edited February 8, 2022 by balletomane

[IrinaM]

OP are the two of you once again living together? I recall your posting history. Full of drama and chaos and arguments and breaking up. You said you were moved out and wouldn't move back in until she fulfilled X amount of therapy. Now you're a "family" and you brew her coffee because you're awake before she is?

You are extremely vague about the nature of your conflicts. If you are seeing a therapist and your therapist is diagnosing your girlfriend who isn't even present, something is off. Get a new therapist and insist on working on your issues. If i recall correctly: financial instability, parenting children with multiple mothers, housing problems, professional insecurity, and some past legal problems.

[glows]

You may not like what I’m about to say but prolonged chaos and disturbance means half the problem is you. You do not know when to stop.

In the length of your write up you’ve extensively listed what might be wrong with her but skipped any of the topics you were discussing. It’s completely inappropriate to be getting so deep in the psychological issues or “traumas” of your partner’s past. I do not care whether you have been together for two weeks or 50 years. 

Take stock of your own actions and why you’re with someone who brings strife into your life. You may be attracted to that in your relationships. Leave if you must leave.

[poppyfields]

44 minutes ago, glows said:

Take stock of your own actions and why you’re with someone who brings strife into your life. You may be attracted to that in your relationships. Leave if you must leave.

Took the words...

OP, in July last year, you created a thread discussing these same issues.   Nothing's changed since then, 7 months later. 

Forget her, time to look within to determine what draws you to such chaos.  On a level you may not be aware of, you're attracted to it and if the drama and chaos were to end, you may not even want her or this relationship any longer. 

It's your choice, either accept the drama, chaos and dysfunction and stop complaining and trying to change it OR end the relationship.

[smackie9]

I just read the first few sentences and I would say she's bi-polar. They perceive most things being negative.... so damned if you do and damned if you don't...you find yourself walking on eggshells. And possibly you wonder, what the hell you did or said wrong...like you start questioning your own actions. There is nothing you can do but run for the hills. 

[poppyfields]

41 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

I just read the first few sentences and I would say she's bi-polar. They perceive most things being negative.... so damned if you do and damned if you don't...you find yourself walking on eggshells. And possibly you wonder, what the hell you did or said wrong...like you start questioning your own actions. There is nothing you can do but run for the hills. 

That's not bipolar smackie; bipolar is characterized by severe mood swings, highs and low.  Manic/Depression.   They're not abusive the way this chick is.

What you've described sounds more like BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which along with any other disorder, only a qualified professional can diagnose. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by poppyfields

[dramafreezone]

12 hours ago, Love2Love78 said:

The recurring issue we have is a breakdown in communication that leads to arguments. Generally, I say something or ask something, she takes it in a negative or critical way (when at least 85% of the time, I don't mean it that way), and before I can clarify the intent behind what I said, she is too angry to be receptive. The anger leads to her yelling, name calling, insults, hurtful comments, threatening the relationship, or altogether ending it. I try to do my best to remain calm at those times, but after she is upset, it's rare that I can ever do anything to fix it at the time. I just hate walking away and leaving it alone when she took something the wrong way while in my eyes, she is hurt, upset, and/or angry purely over a misunderstanding. It's also nerve-wracking walking away when she has ended the relationship. It freaks me out, as I love her in a way I've never loved anyone else before in my 44yrs of life. Every time, I wonder if this is the last time, if I may have lost her permanently, and it breaks my heart.

 

I think one thing many people don't always understand is that when someone is speaking to you in an emotional state, replying to them in a logical state is pretty much like speaking a foreign language that they don't understand.  I see this all the time with upset patients.  If you try to use logic to get through to someone who's thinking emotionally, it's almost like throwing gasoline on a flame. When was the last time anyone was upset, crying, you spoke to the logically and they instantly perked up and "said, you know what, you're right, I'm wrong?"  Never, right?   You're not speaking their language, hence you don't understand them and that angers them further.

Next time she goes into that state, shift to empathy, attentiveness.  Ask her questions, why did that upset you, so when I said ____ it made you feel ____?  It's about counterbalancing whatever emotion she's feeling.  You don't counterbalance anger with more anger, or logic.  You counterbalance anger with understanding that she's in an emotional state, and offering ways for her to resolve her feelings.  JMO.

That said she sounds especially prone to going into these states frequently, so she may have some issues to resolve on her own end.  There shouldn't be breakdown in communications multiple times a week for instance.  Also she's probably doing this more often because there's a desired reaction she's getting out of you.  If so maybe this is an issue of her pushing you away because she wants out of the relationship, some mood disorder she has to address, or a combination of the two.

Edited February 8, 2022 by dramafreezone

[Woggle]

Why are you with somebody who makes you walk on eggshells and is abusive. Your home should be a place of peace and if she is disturbing that she needs to go.

[Wiseman2]

13 hours ago, Love2Love78 said:

before you give any feedback, no, breaking up isn't an option. We are a family, have a connection neither of us have ever had before, and we are determined to fix this, know we can fix this, but just need help fixing it.

Have you found work? If she lets you stay there you'll need to make more substantial contributions.

Is this the same woman?:

 

[smackie9]

Seek professional help. 

[ShyViolet]

I remember your multiple other threads you have posted over the last few months that all have the same themes.... dysfunctional relationships, poor choices, ignoring red flags, and endless drama.  You were given a lot of good advice in those other threads, which you have chosen not to take.  You keep making the same bad choices and asking the same questions over and over.  There's nothing we can help you with on this board.  Seek professional help.

[flitzanu]

i'd want examples of what it is you say that you think is ok, and she automatically takes it in some insulting negative way.

that's way too generalized to form an opinion.

[IrinaM]

26 minutes ago, flitzanu said:

i'd want examples of what it is you say that you think is ok, and she automatically takes it in some insulting negative way.

that's way too generalized to form an opinion.

I think this same thing every time OP posts one of these threads. I wonder what innocuous things he's saying that cause this woman to fly off the handle irrationally.

Honestly OP I wonder if you are playing innocent here. You claim that you didn't know your body language or tone would matter. Seriously? Can you give some examples of the things you say that are consistently taken the wrong way and make this woman angry even though they are completely innocuous?

In an earlier thread you also said that the stress of the relationship caused you to lose your job (wiseman alluded to that). I'm just saying, there is a lot of blaming going on.

[Love2Love78]

I only have a very brief minute to touch on this.  I skimmed through the messages on here.  No, we're not living together again.  We sleep over each other's houses often, trying to build back to living together.  Some assumptions were completely off.

Anyway, she's finally doing her own counseling.  The counselor brought to her attention what my counselor and me have been trying to get through to her the whole time.  Now that she accepted it as truth and was receptive to that truth, everything has been great. She broke down in tears apologizing to me, and ever since then, the problems are non existent.

Breaking up doesn't always have to be the solution guys.  Everyone at our age (40s) has some baggage.  I wasn't going to give up on her because of damage her ex caused her.  Now that she's aware of the source, it's no longer being taken out on our relationship. It was never a compatibility issue.  It was a past trauma issue.

[Love2Love78]

On 2/8/2022 at 10:34 AM, smackie9 said:

I just read the first few sentences and I would say she's bi-polar. They perceive most things being negative.... so damned if you do and damned if you don't...you find yourself walking on eggshells. And possibly you wonder, what the hell you did or said wrong...like you start questioning your own actions. There is nothing you can do but run for the hills. 

Yes, her counselor has already indicated she believes she may be bi-polar and is evaluating her for it, as well as has a psychiatric evaluation set up for her to treat it.  Bi-polar doesn't mean you need to run for the hills though.  It can be managed, so long as someone is willing to make the effort.  I used to think the only solution to run as well.  But, I love her too much and believe in us too much to give up.  Nobody is perfect, and she is actively working with her counselor to get her issues under control.  I've never seen someone try so hard to fix their issues as her.  She is an amazing woman, just severely damaged by having to big of a heart and letting the wrong people into it.  I get it because I have done the same thing in the past.  I just didn't let it damage me to the extent it had with her

[Love2Love78]

On 2/8/2022 at 2:20 PM, ShyViolet said:

I remember your multiple other threads you have posted over the last few months that all have the same themes.... dysfunctional relationships, poor choices, ignoring red flags, and endless drama.  You were given a lot of good advice in those other threads, which you have chosen not to take.  You keep making the same bad choices and asking the same questions over and over.  There's nothing we can help you with on this board.  Seek professional help.

Yes, ever since my divorce where I knew my daughter was going to grow up in a broken home, I have made horrible choices when it comes to relationships.  Something in me broke back then, and it damaged me far more than I was aware of at that time.

The difference here is that I stopped dealing with BS after being taken advantage of for about 2yrs by a narcissistic sociopath.  Yes, at least half the people I dated were toxic, but as soon as I became aware of that, I walked.  This is the one and only exception to that since the toxic relationship 7yrs ago.  

I don't expect most of you to get it.  The reason I stayed was one, I knew our relationship wasn't the source of the problem.  Two, I knew without any doubt it could be fixed (which most of it already has been now that she has the counselor working with her).  Three, the chemistry we had outside the conflicts blew anything I ever had in the past out the water.  Four, I knew she was making serious effort to fix the issues.  Our main setback was her depression that happened a couple months ago, but she's working on that as well and I'm supporting her the whole way through.

[Wiseman2]

25 minutes ago, Love2Love78 said:

The counselor brought to her attention what my counselor and me have been trying to get through to her the whole time.

Why were you and your therapist trying to convince her of anything?

[Love2Love78]

On 2/8/2022 at 12:36 PM, Wiseman2 said:

Have you found work? If she lets you stay there you'll need to make more substantial contributions.

Is this the same woman?:

 

Yes, same woman, and yes, found work and then some.  Back to a six figure income again.  Only lost my job back then due to the stress of the relationship.  Don't have time to read through all I wrote back then, but as I've stated, there is so much that went on it would be impossible to cover all of it in posts here.

We have two separate homes for now, and are gradually working towards living together through sleepovers, etc.  At least 95% of the problems from back then are now non-existent.  She just needed a counselor to tell her what I was trying to tell her.  You can't counsel the person you're with, just p*sses them off, lol.  But seriously, her counselor is doing an amazing job at bringing to her attention what she needs to know to resolve the issues.

[Love2Love78]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

Why were you and your therapist trying to convince her of anything?

Not necessarily trying to convince her.  Trying to make her aware of where the issues were stemming from.  Since she hadn't started her own counseling yet, it was the best option we could come up with to try and address the core issues.  The only two options was to bring to her attention the source of the recurring problems, or for me to break up with her and have her either find out on her own, or with another man.  I wasn't going to just walk away without at least trying, and now, I'm VERY glad I did.  We still have all the good, and none of the bad for weeks now, on top of the fact that with how much had been addressed, there's no reason most of those issues would ever resurface now.  Once the core issues are resolved, the rest dissolves on its own.

[Wiseman2]

45 minutes ago, Love2Love78 said:

Since she hadn't started her own counseling yet, it was the best option we could come up with to try and address the core issues.

Let her talk to her own doctors and therapist privately and confidentially to decide for herself what is best for her and her children.

It's unbelievably unethical and manipulative for a therapist/councilor to gang up on someone who is not even their patient to try to convince her of some sort of "truth".