Torn and seeking guidance with a different type of dating situation

[NEG]

Hi all. 33 male here who has been seeing a 34 year old female for roughly six months now, however our situation has been a bit different than most. As a person who has always struggled with commitment with just about everything in life, I had asked her very early on if she was ok with a casual arrangement where we would see each other but also have the ability to date others if we wished. She agreed, and from the beginning we have kept a very clear and truthful line of communication open with each other. I have always been under the notion or policy to myself that a committed relationship should only be formed amongst two people who are truly in love with one another. I have been in love once in my life, years back, and have yet to find it since. The person at hand currently is absolutely wonderful. We get along like bread and butter, we laugh, we enjoy some similar interests and just have a great time overall. There is definitely a strong sense of compatibility between the two of us but I just don't feel that I am in love with her. That "magical" makes you sick feeling, I just do not experience it with her however I care deeply for her and very much so enjoy my time with her. Not only do we laugh and have fun, but we are extremely affectionate with each other as well.

Fast forwarding to a little over a month ago, thinking to myself that I still wanted to find true love, I met a person online who I started talking to. We decided to meet for dinner and me being brutally honest told my current partner about my plans. She was a mixed bag of emotions, a bit of anger but mostly sadness. Even though it was part of our arrangement from the beginning, when it came down to it, she realized she was not ok with me seeing another person. We talked it out... She cried, then I cried. I cried for two reasons: One, because I couldn't stand to see her as torn up as she was and two, because when she started wishing me the best and I thought about it, I just couldn't stand the idea of not having her in my life. I cancelled my date with the new person and put dating other people on the back burner for a while.

Here we are now about two weeks ago. I had just finished taking her out to dinner for her birthday and things were going really well between us. A few days later, she tells me that she has been talking to somebody off and on for about a month and that she agreed to a date with him. This came as a shock to me because I thought we had come to some type of mutual understanding after I had cancelled my date that we were going to kind of try things out, just the two of us for a while. I guess I was wrong in thinking that. Not knowing how I would handle her going on a date until she broke the news to me, I found myself hurt and upset over it and I did express those feelings to her. She said, "Well, this is what you wanted. You said that we should both date to find love so I took your advice and I decided to try it". She wasn't wrong. I guess you could say it was a taste of my own medicine but I didn't realize that I would be as upset as I was.

Forwarding now to current time, I called her to have a chat as we haven't physically seen each other in about two weeks. The first question I asked was how the other guy was and if it was something she was still pursuing. She told me he asked her on a second date for this Thursday and that she agreed to it. My immediate natural reaction was one out of anger as my emotions went flying. I settled down and we decided to text since it's not always easy for us to expose our feelings verbally. She had told me at a previous time before this that she would love to date me exclusively but didn't want to force it on me because she wasn't sure if I wanted that. I explained over text how wonderful she is as a person and told her about all the qualities I like about her, but I told her I was struggling with a decision because I simply did not feel in love with her. I said maybe it's best we keep our distance for a while since I'm unsure about my feelings and since you also want to explore dating other people. Again, this led to the two of us in tears. At the end of our texting conversation, she made a statement that was blatantly clear. She said, "If you change your mind, make sure you reach out to me before it's too late". This is an obvious sign that she is still interested in seeing me and almost feels like she is trying to force my hand a bit but not at the same time.

Now for my question to all of you. If you read this far, you probably either hate me for putting her through this or believe that our situation is dysfunctional. I can't be angry if you feel either or both of those things, but I'm simply seeking advice on how to handle my own feelings and how to proceed with her. There is a part of me that wants to tell her to cancel her second date and tell her I want to try to date her exclusively... The other part of me says to walk away over the simple fact I am not feeling like I am in love with her. But then again, what does love actually feel like? Is it possible that I have it all wrong and the love I felt for someone years ago was just "young love"? Is it possible that I do love this girl and do not realize it? Or is my gut instinct correct when I always tell people that if it's love, you JUST know it. If I'm not in love with her, is it ok to date her exclusively? These are all questions that I am struggling to answer and am finding myself very torn up about.

As much as I hate to admit this thought process, I guess curiosity kills the cat when we wonder if the grass is greener on the other side. Then again, I could be giving up an amazing person that I may not find again and this may be something I regret later on in life.

Any genuine advice is appreciated. Thanks everyone for your time.

[Mrin]

Sure thing. Okay a few things to try on:

1. Women are emotional beings. They are much more three-dimensional than we men. Okay I want you to think of her like a plant or a tree. You confined where her roots (feelings) can grow by the whole let's keep it casual and be open to dating others thing from the beginning. It sounded like she wanted to develop big feelings for you but the parameters you put on your relationship with her was like putting her in a pot buried in the ground. Her roots can only grow so far.

Then, with your "hey I am going on a date with another woman because I want true love thing" you basically trimmed any roots she might have grown outside of that pot for good measure. I'd even say you probably trimmed some of them inside the pot as well.

Those roots don't grow back immediately if at all. It's sort of like the whole dreaded "friend zone" thing. If the roots (feelings) aren't there is just does not matter.

To be honest with you even if you went and asked for her to be exclusive with you, I'm not sure she would develop healthy feelings about you in a long term relationship sort of way. 

2. Scarcity vs Abundance. Okay now you're trying to wrestle why her going on a date is such a big deal to you. Let me give you this to think about. When you decided to go out and find true love you were operating from a place of abundance. You had as much of her as you wanted and still wanted to add to that. That's abundance. Now you're operating from scarcity. You decided not to see that other woman. And now you face the prospect of getting less than what you want from your current FWB because she is starting to date others. No wonder you're reacting like this. 

And what you're feeling for her is not love. It's just scarcity. My suggestion to you is don't trust your emotions when you are in a place of scarcity. Try to find satiation or abundance and then trust your emotions. 

Hope this helps. Best of luck! 

 

Mrin

Edited February 2, 2022 by Mrin

[FMW]

You have too many doubts about even dating her exclusively or what your feelings for her are.  Since you know she wants more, with you, let her go.  

Not wanting to lose her to someone else doesn't mean anything more than wanting to keep her on the side while you keep searching.   

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, NEG said:

, I had asked her very early on if she was ok with a casual arrangement where we would see each other but also have the ability to date others

Sorry this is happening. Unfortunately FWB is usually a short term situation that often ends in hurt and confusion, just like this. You're not that into her and she knows it, so it's best if you both free yourselves from this FWB nightmare.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Wiseman2

[salparadise]

5 hours ago, NEG said:

That "magical" makes you sick feeling, I just do not experience it with her however I care deeply for her and very much so enjoy my time with her. Not only do we laugh and have fun, but we are extremely affectionate with each other as well.

And from another perspective, I wonder if you shut off the feeling spigot in your control center and never allowed yourself to feel love for her... becoming emotionally unavailable to avoid taking a chance on love, while at the same time focusing on an image or ideal of the perfect love. The magical-makes-you-sick type of feeling isn't the only realization of love; it comes in many flavors. I think it's a mistake to think of that as the only real kind of love. You could develop that type of feeling for someone who is completely inappropriate in terms of a companion and life partner. And it will almost certainly be a temporary state (limerence), which leaves you with the compatibility question when it does fade. A more mature type of love is mostly based in respect, trust, dedication, communication, and a choice. Yes, love is definitely a choice, and no person is perfect.

My suggestion would be to examine whether you have rendered yourself invulnerable, staying well within your comfort zone rather than venturing into that scary place where you give another person the power to break your heart. People develop all sorts of strategies for accomplishing this, and holding out for perfection is probably the most common.

[Happy Lemming]

It is possible that she started to catch feelings for you during this FWB and when you told her that you were going to try to date someone else, she was quite hurt (as evidenced by her crying).  And now she wants to "hurt you back" by dating someone else, give you a taste of your own medicine.

FWB relationships only work if neither party catches feelings for the other or both parties catch feelings at about the same time.  Otherwise the FWB will dissolve.

In the future, the next time you get into an FWB relationship keep your mouth shut about dating another person, until you start sleeping with her.  There is no reason to blow up a perfectly good FWB, just because you take some other woman out on a date. You have no idea if the new woman will work out or not, so no reason to say a word.

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, salparadise said:

And from another perspective, I wonder if you shut off the feeling spigot in your control center and never allowed yourself to feel love for her... becoming emotionally unavailable to avoid taking a chance on love, while at the same time focusing on an image or ideal of the perfect love. The magical-makes-you-sick type of feeling isn't the only realization of love; it comes in many flavors. I think it's a mistake to think of that as the only real kind of love. You could develop that type of feeling for someone who is completely inappropriate in terms of a companion and life partner. And it will almost certainly be a temporary state (limerence), which leaves you with the compatibility question when it does fade. A more mature type of love is mostly based in respect, trust, dedication, communication, and a choice. Yes, love is definitely a choice, and no person is perfect.

My suggestion would be to examine whether you have rendered yourself invulnerable, staying well within your comfort zone rather than venturing into that scary place where you give another person the power to break your heart. People develop all sorts of strategies for accomplishing this, and holding out for perfection is probably the most common.

I echo this^.  Knowing a bit about commitment fears myself, it's spot on.

8 hours ago, NEG said:

As a person who has always struggled with commitment with just about everything in life....

If I may ask, what scares you so much about commitment?  To another person or to anything. 

Have you taken the time to figure this out?  

8 hours ago, NEG said:

That "magical" makes you sick feeling...

This is NOT love, it's infatuation at best, a Disney fairly tale at worst.

So please, do yourself and any potential partner a favor, get rid of this notion that it's love..

It's a great feeling, but it's fleeting and replaced with what I suspect is what you are feeling now with this girl but too fearful to acknowledge and fully experience. 

I mean all the intense emotions, the crying, etc this is more than casual FWB and I think you know that. 

So does she. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by poppyfields

[stillafool]

I think after seeing and having sex with your FWB for six months and you aren't in love you probably never will be.  I think you should let her go since you are not in love and unsure and go NC.  If things change in your heart and mind after the separation then contact her and ask for a relationship.

Edited February 2, 2022 by stillafool

[glows]

Well, I do not know you so this is an outsider’s perspective looking in. I don’t agree with your overall approach so we differ there. You seem very anxious in general. I’m getting the sense that you have a thick wall up around you which is self-defeating. 

I read your care of each other as more than friends and there was a deep love and appreciation there that you seem to be nervous or skittish around. 

This ship may have long sailed as it’s doubtful a person may look at you the same way. I certainly wouldn’t if a man came back later saying he was interested when his entire outlook and philosophy on life was designed to keep people out from the beginning. You’re defensive in general so it’s preventing you from building relationships.

I don’t think approaching her again is a good idea. You need some time and work uncovering all those defence mechanisms and walls you seem to have up. When you’ve learned to let others in, then start off on a better footing.

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by glows

[smackie9]

She just filled an emotional gap for you...so there is attachment, which you have been dependent on unknowingly. We all desire most what we can't have..now that she's possibly moving on, you desire her more. That isn't love. I feel she is forcing your hand. I think that is just playing games. She should have just came out and told you you can't give her what she wants and just be done with the arrangement. You have already had 6 months to decide. You are still on the fence....you need to accept and realize, after 6 months and still not in love, it's not going to happen. To be fair to her, you should cut her loose. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by smackie9

[Lotsgoingon]

 

I once fell in love when I was in a situation like yours, with all the hesitations you have.

And surprise, surprise, my love for this person emerged when a guy who really liked my partner showed up. OMG, it was like animal-kingdom instincts. I got scared, I got jealous. My brain was like, "dude, you better get serious because this other dude IS serious!" Seriously, it was a hormonal shift--not some intellectual thinking shift.

Yes, a competitor can affect us quite strongly. 

I don't think you're doing anything wrong. And I think she's doing exactly what she should do--go out with others if you cannot commit. Here's the thing to keep in mind. Even though you had this agreement early on, that agreement often goes out the window when you act like a committed couple. That's my experience. If you act like you're committed and treat someone like a prize romantic partner, they will often begin to think that they are your prize romantic partner. Doesn't matter what words were said early on. They will think you have changed your mind. 

 

[poppyfields]

What I suspect will happen and what I have personally seen and even experienced myself from a couple of guys who were "uncertain" about their feelings for me, she will dump you and it's then you will realize how much in love with her you are.  You will begin missing her, longing for her and realizing your feelings that up to now have been heavily guarded, perhaps suppressed due to the commitment fears and anxiety you admit to having.

Also, what I've learned (through reading and experience) is that sometimes when someone is standing right there, right in front of you, wanting to be with you, be in a relationship with you, you are unable to "see" them, all you can see and feel is the fear.

When they're gone and no longer right there in front of you wanting to be with you, that pressure is lifted enabling you to become more aware of your feelings and your love.

I realize this sounds complicated, and it is.  Commitment fears and anxieties can be very complicated and often crippling.  

They often takes years to fully resolve and I wish you the best of luck in figuring this all out.

[ShyViolet]

You have already hurt this woman multiple times and probably done irreversible damage to the relationship.  You know you are not in love with this woman and you explicitly told her that.  And you decided to try to date someone else.  It's time to leave this woman alone and stop playing games with her emotions.  This is not fair to her.

[Lotsgoingon]

To agree with @poppyfieldsI think you may already be in love with her if you're upset and troubled by her dating someone else. I"m thinking the neurons are reconnecting and reconfiguring themselves right now, and you may feel the "in love" feeling in not too long. 

There's a fine line between "I don't want to lose this person in my life" and "in love." Very fine line--if at all. 

[Ami1uwant]

[ ]

 

many start out saying I want to take things slow snd have things slowly build.  She though you were her bf when you told her of this potential date.

 

it serms like you set thr grounded rules on wanting casual early on. She didn’t necessarily agree on it.

 

drop this fantasy land thing thinking real love is butterflies snd all that junk.  It’s not. Infatuation/ lust/ early stage stuff is that.  Love is actually caring fir her snd not wanting to lose her.  It’s very good to be able to communicate with each other and enjoy each other’s time.  I’m not sure you have gotten to the point of letting your guard down or be your usual self on dates.

Edited February 2, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility

[chillii]

Of course things happen when two people force themselves to live in such an unnatural way especially when you seem to have a lot more going for you two than just that. You must've noticed her feelings changing, you noticed yours . So of course she was hurt and thought to hell with you then when you hit her with that, this was her lashing out.

lt's very possible you do love her, maybe even grown to be in love with her you've just blocked it bc it wasn't suppose to happen. What sort of love or are you suddenly just seeing what you really had, only you can figure that out.

Edited February 2, 2022 by chillii

[NEG]

I really appreciate everyone's advice here and all of you have raised very valid points that I honestly did not think of until I came and read all of your replies. Things went south today with a chat I had with her earlier and I'll tell anyone who's interested about it below.

***UPDATE*** I think I may be in love with her too as some of you have said. I think I also forgot to mention that tomorrow night will be her second date with this other guy, not the first one. Earlier today, I decided to go all-in and offer myself fully to her. I told her I would be willing to date her exclusively and see if her and I could really build something together. I suggested we start fresh with clear heads and try to go into it with some optimism. I also offered to meet her family which she always wanted, but I never would do it because I felt it was inappropriate given our casual/fwb situation. I poured myself out to her but not so much out of desperation, but more so because I genuinely wanted to. It actually felt good to come to the realization that I did not want to lose her and to finally make a decision that I could stand by. For a little while, I felt wonderful and thought maybe I am finally maturing and heading in the right direction...

The one "rule" that I set in my proposition to her was that if she wanted to date me exclusively, then I told her I would expect her to cancel the date she has lined up for tomorrow. She pushed back on this and began debating me about why she should still be allowed to go on the date and make up her mind afterwards. At this point I realized that this woman had signed out of our "relationship" and had no interest in seeing me any more. It honestly cut me like a knife. The final result of our text conversation was that she had made up her mind that she was going on this date tomorrow and she told me multiple times that she "owes it to herself to do that". She continuously reiterated to me the fact that I have told her in the past I am not in love with her and that I would've made her mine at an earlier date if I really wanted her. She concluded with a long paragraph that was actually very sweet and said she was crying as she typed it. She said that she has learned a lot from our time together and she appreciates everything I taught and offered to her during our time together. She said I could always reach out to her if I need anything and promised to be there as my friend. Me on the other hand, while I was sitting there hurting as I was reading all of this, wished her the best and told her I would not be contacting her any further.

To this moment I am shocked she turned us down when I finally decided to give her all of me. I guess this was the world's way of punishing me or teaching me a valuable life lesson. I thought I was in control from the beginning but in the end I was the one who got burned. If she doesn't want me then that is a reality that I now have to accept and move forward with my life. I am not in the business of begging and so I will let this rest as much as it hurts me to do so.

[glows]

It may not be that she doesn’t want you. She clearly cares deeply for you but the approach in preventing her or requesting her not to see the other man comes across as possessive and controlling. 

A better approach might have been to set her free and let her come back to you, to make that choice freely on her own terms, not exclusively on your terms. 

I would cherish the memories and take this as a learning experience. Your paths may cross again but you must let her be free to do what’s best for herself. Don’t put your life on hold either. 

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, NEG said:

  told her I would not be contacting her any further.

You made the right decision. FWB situationships don't end well for this reason. Misunderstandings, shifting goal posts and jealousy.

When it starts out as a disposable situation it's hard to parlay it into more after the damage is done.

[chillii]

She'll go out with him first if it's the last thing she does, it'd come under the cutting of her nose to spite her face thing l think. Bc of the way you'd been with her through it all and just having wanted to go out with someone else yourself.

l wouldn't be surprised if she does this first then stays pissed a few wks and then you hear from her, but eh, l don't know her or her true feelings soooo, it could also be just done.

Edited February 3, 2022 by chillii

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, NEG said:

The one "rule" that I set in my proposition to her was that if she wanted to date me exclusively, then I told her I would expect her to cancel the date she has lined up for tomorrow.

Unfortunately if-then are ultimatums and as casual FWB neither of you has to take heed on the other. Especially when you alluded to her that she was just ok, but you wanted to explore other options.

What's good about this is the learning opportunity that if you are into someone date them, if not don't use half-measures and shop around.

[Lotsgoingon]

OP, I think you misread her insistence on going out.

Her determination to go out with this guy--that's just a way of her asserting her own independence and following through with what you've been doing with her (avoiding the exclusive commitment).

8 hours ago, NEG said:

. She pushed back on this and began debating me about why she should still be allowed to go on the date and make up her mind afterwards.

 I worry that you missed what was really going on here. The above was her way of saying she will go exclusive after this date. In fact, what usually happens in situations like this is she would put limits on anything serious happening on this date because I'm betting she wants to be with you. The date is not for real in that sense. It's just her throwing an inside fastball and making you step back from the plate, to get you to respect her and not take her for granted.  Also it's her way of saying to herself that she's in charge of things as much as you are. 

She's actually smart to insist on going out on that date. Because she can't know yet that you are serious about being exclusive. And she can't just flip a switch to stop all the hurt and disappointment she apparently feels for it taking this long for you to arrive here. And she is likely angry at herself for assuming you wanted commitment when you didn't. She's probaby calling herself a dupe. 

But here's the psychology in this that i think you missed. She goes out to meet this guy, her ego feels good, she feels independent and less dependent on you. She applauds herself for insisting on being independent.  She defies you in going to meet this guy. So now she's able to tell herself that she hasn't been a patsy, that she's not weak and dependent and that she was not a sucker. Her disappointment (that it has taken you so long to come around) now is eased as she has shown herself that she will act in her own interest.  Her feeling of being gullible is eased. Her feeling that you are in control and she's just begging--that's all eased by just going out with this guy AGAINST your wishes. And there's integrity here, because she's not hiding it. 

And likely absolutely NOTHING would happen--nothing come close to happening. She'll block anyting from happening, but she needs to do this.

And all of that makes it easy afterwards for her to turn to you (not in any kind of begging posture) and say, so tell me what you want again? And she puts herself on equal grounds with you. Right now she feels like you're the decider. Going out allows her to make her a co-decider. Much better for her and much better ultimately for you two together.  No need for you to oppose this meeting. It's your "payback" in that sense, and again, she's NOT going to let anything happen. That guy won't even get a formal hug. 

Just a download for you bro: the fact that things are this tense right now says you gotta fix your love-like calibration meter. It was WAY WAY off. You really liked this woman and somehow missed it and this is the price for that delayed awareness. 

 

 

[Ami1uwant]

You tried to date.  She started dating another person.

 

she has every right to decide on this after date 2.  As you said you appeared to not see before the last 2 weeks affectingly abandoning her.  
 

now it appears you have a strong jealousy/ controlling side emerge.

[Lotsgoingon]

OP,  the potentially really good news here is that this woman is SO not needy.

Therefore, when she gets affection and love and support, it goes into the love accumulation bank as assets that keep adding up and increasing.

Needy people on the other hand, you can make deposit after deposit of love and support and the most you get is to 0 in bank. The person is always in such emotional debt. This becomes exhausting for a partner who can't ever accumulate any real store of affection in the relationship. Any good relationship needs reserves of affection to help through the hard times, during emergencies and so on. 

 

 

[poppyfields]

2 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

OP, I think you misread her insistence on going out.

Her determination to go out with this guy--that's just a way of her asserting her own independence and following through with what you've been doing with her (avoiding the exclusive commitment).

 I worry that you missed what was really going on here. The above was her way of saying she will go exclusive after this date. In fact, what usually happens in situations like this is she would put limits on anything serious happening on this date because I'm betting she wants to be with you. The date is not for real in that sense. It's just her throwing an inside fastball and making you step back from the plate, to get you to respect her and not take her for granted.  Also it's her way of saying to herself that she's in charge of things as much as you are. 

She's actually smart to insist on going out on that date. Because she can't know yet that you are serious about being exclusive. And she can't just flip a switch to stop all the hurt and disappointment she apparently feels for it taking this long for you to arrive here. And she is likely angry at herself for assuming you wanted commitment when you didn't. She's probaby calling herself a dupe. 

But here's the psychology in this that i think you missed. She goes out to meet this guy, her ego feels good, she feels independent and less dependent on you. She applauds herself for insisting on being independent.  She defies you in going to meet this guy. So now she's able to tell herself that she hasn't been a patsy, that she's not weak and dependent and that she was not a sucker. Her disappointment (that it has taken you so long to come around) now is eased as she has shown herself that she will act in her own interest.  Her feeling of being gullible is eased. Her feeling that you are in control and she's just begging--that's all eased by just going out with this guy AGAINST your wishes. And there's integrity here, because she's not hiding it. 

And likely absolutely NOTHING would happen--nothing come close to happening. She'll block anyting from happening, but she needs to do this.

And all of that makes it easy afterwards for her to turn to you (not in any kind of begging posture) and say, so tell me what you want again? And she puts herself on equal grounds with you. Right now she feels like you're the decider. Going out allows her to make her a co-decider. Much better for her and much better ultimately for you two together.  No need for you to oppose this meeting. It's your "payback" in that sense, and again, she's NOT going to let anything happen. That guy won't even get a formal hug. 

Just a download for you bro: the fact that things are this tense right now says you gotta fix your love-like calibration meter. It was WAY WAY off. You really liked this woman and somehow missed it and this is the price for that delayed awareness. 

 

 

This sounds complicated but I agree with it. The psychology behind it. 

The road to true love often takes many paths, it's so nuanced, rarely linear and never black and white. 

Shakespeare said it himself in A Midsummer Night's Dream.

Good luck OP.