So we're going to have a talk

January 26, 2022

My ex of about 8 years broke up with me around Easter of last year. Middle of June last year, we reunited as she wanted to take things slow and see where they lead to. For the most part, things have been going really good but also complicated. For the most part, we spend about 3 to 4 days together a week and during that time it feels like we're a couple. We do "couples" things together but we aren't intimate, I never pushed her to be either. She says sex to her means she would committed to me and she doesn't want that. This past weekend, we were laying in her bed cuddling watching TV. Started making out and things were getting pretty hot, again I never tried to talk her into having sex. We stopped because she said we had to, so we did. She once again reminded me that she doesn't want to have sex because she's not at the point where she wants to commit to me. So before I left, I told her then we need to chill out with the cuddling and kissing.

So she wants to talk about this in person, not too sure what there is to talk about really but I do feel a certain kind of way. Maybe this is just the guy in me thinking, but what she's pretty much telling me is since she feels sex would be committing to me, it's completely fine if we cuddle and kiss other people. I know we're not a couple and we're free to do what we want, but she told me before that is not the case and she isn't interested in anyone else and she wants us to work out but she just isn't ready to be committed to me.

I feel like I'm filling a void for her, like she wants her cake and wants to eat it too. She doesn't want to stop how things are going now, I don't either but I feel like she's being a little selfish. When I've asked her before why she doesn't feel like she's ready to commit she just says she has things she needs to work on for herself. She doesn't tell me all of them, only what she wants me to know but they don't add up so maybe it is deeper, I don't know.

January 26, 2022

2 minutes ago, ItsTheDay said:

I feel like I'm filling a void for her

You answered your own question right there.

Let me summarize:
1) She broke up with you after 8 years.
2) You reunited a few months later, but not as lovers.
3) This woman won't have sex with you.
4) Conclusion: What you guys have is a friendship.

She feels comfortable enough with you to cuddle and hang out. She missed you while you were separated. Now, you're back in her life as a friend. That's what she wants.
It does sound like she is NOT physically attracted to you. I am wondering how your sex life was while you were a couple.

I am surprised you've been OK with this for so long. Most guys wouldn't be. I think you should date other girls, if you want an intimate relationship with sex. Don't wait for the spark to come (back) in your relationship (it probably won't), and most of all, don't count on her to get it back.

This whole talk about "I am not ready for sex, because that would mean we are committed" is just a BS excuse. What does that even mean?

January 26, 2022

17 minutes ago, ItsTheDay said:

I've asked her before why she doesn't feel like she's ready to commit she just says she has things she needs to work on for herself. She doesn't tell me all of them, only what she wants me to know but they don't add up so maybe it is deeper, I don't know.

Is she interested in someone else? The cuddle buddies together but not together thing makes no sense.

January 26, 2022

Why have you wasted almost 10 years of your life on a woman who wants all the benefits of a relationship but refuses sex because she feels like that would mean “commitment?”

If your goal is to hang out with this woman indefinitely, in a very one sided relationship where she dictates the terms of the relationship - then carry on…

But, if you actually want to find a committed relationship with a woman who wants to be with you, have sex with you, and build a future with you - I suggest you stop wasting your time here and go in search of a woman who actually wants to have a romantic relationship with you.

A woman who loves a man doesn’t do this -

Edited January 26, 2022 by BaileyB

January 26, 2022

5 minutes ago, Pumpernickel said:

You answered your own question right there.

Let me summarize:
1) She broke up with you after 8 years.
2) You reunited a few months later, but not as lovers.
3) This woman won't have sex with you.
4) Conclusion: What you guys have is a friendship.

She feels comfortable enough with you to cuddle and hang out. She missed you while you were separated. Now, you're back in her life as a friend. That's what she wants.
It does sound like she is NOT physically attracted to you. I am wondering how your sex life was while you were a couple.

I am surprised you've been OK with this for so long. Most guys wouldn't be. I think you should date other girls, if you want an intimate relationship with sex. Don't wait for the spark to come (back) in your relationship (it probably won't), and most of all, don't count on her to get it back.

This whole talk about "I am not ready for sex, because that would mean we are committed" is just a BS excuse. What does that even mean?

She tells me she is physically attracted to me and tells me she does get turned on by and from me, but she avoids it from going any farther because she's not ready yet.

Our sex life as a couple was great, then good and then hardly ever happened. We been through couples therapy and when that subject came up she would tell the therapist when we do have sex, it's great and the best she's had but she doesn't know why she rather avoid it.

January 26, 2022

8 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Is she interested in someone else? The cuddle buddies together but not together thing makes no sense.

She tells me there is no one else and she's not interested in anyone else.

January 26, 2022

1 minute ago, ItsTheDay said:

She tells me she is physically attracted to me and tells me she does get turned on by and from me, but she avoids it from going any farther because she's not ready yet.

You were in a relationship with this woman for eight years - what was her reason for ending the relationship? In other words, what happened to her such that she felt she had to withdraw from you as an act of self preservation?

January 26, 2022

Just now, BaileyB said:

You were in a relationship with this woman for eight years - what was her reason for ending the relationship? In other words, what happened to her such that she felt she had to withdraw from you as an act of self preservation?

Over the years, a lot added up to it but she told me she's unhappy with herself, unhappy with the way she treats me at times and she has nothing to give in the relationship because she wants to be able to love herself.

January 26, 2022

14 minutes ago, ItsTheDay said:

Over the years, a lot added up to it but she told me she's unhappy with herself, unhappy with the way she treats me at times and she has nothing to give in the relationship because she wants to be able to love herself.

Is she also seeing a doctor - is she depressed?

And how old are you both ItsTheDay?

It is a pretty big red flag that she wanted to end your eight year relationship to improve her mental health (hopefully, get herself some counselling).

I wonder if she felt your relationship had run it’s course but she/you are having a difficult time letting go of the comfort/security of your relationship.

Either that, or she has had another relationship and/or she is wanting to look around from the comfort/security if your friendship/relationship. In a way, she is keeping you as a backup plan. Possibly.

Can I ask, did your relationship progress during those eight years - ie. did you get engaged, get married, do you want children? I’m also wondering if she became a little frustrated with the lack of progression of you were truly just “dating” for eight years? Perhaps that has caused her need for self reflection and the change of course?

Edited January 26, 2022 by BaileyB

January 26, 2022

Best case scenario: She wanted to enjoy some freedom after being tied down for so long, and she wanted to let you down gently. That's why she probably agreed to counseling.

Worst case scenario: She was interested in another guy, after being tied down for so long, and she wanted to let you down gently. That's why she probably agreed to counseling.

Status quo: She is still letting you down gently. She turns down sex. I apologize in advance for being direct, but I honestly think you might be her backup plan in this scenario. [Or (unlikely): She is not aware of the fact that you want more. Maybe to her it's a friendship with an ex, like many people have. They just hang out, go for drinks, maybe watch TV together and whatnot, but there's nothing romantic left between them. Could it be that you misunderstand how she sees you?]

Edited January 26, 2022 by Pumpernickel

January 26, 2022

So you're not having sex but you're kissing and making out?

If she:s doing that but withholding sex, she could be punishing you for something she still holds against you.

January 26, 2022

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

Is she also seeing a doctor - is she depressed?

It is a pretty big red flag that she wanted to end your eight year relationship to get herself some counselling.

It sounds to me like she felt your relationship had run it’s course and she is trying to find her own way (while not in a relationship), but it seems like she/you are having a difficult time letting go of the comfort/security of your relationship.

Either that, or she has had another relationship and/or she is wanting to look around from the comfort/security if your friendship/relationship. In a way, she is keeping you as a backup plan. Possibly.

Can I ask, did your relationship stop progressing during those eight years - ie. did you get engaged, get married, do you want children? I’m also wondering if she became a little frustrated with the lack of progression of you were truly just “dating” for eight years? Perhaps that has caused her need for self reflection and the change of course?

Yes, she is currently seeing a therapist and has been for a couple months now.

I can only take her word for it but, she tells me she is not interested in anybody else. Not in particular or in general and she has not dated anyone else after we broke up and her main focus isn't on me, or on us but she isn't dismissing the opportunity of us. Her main priority is focusing on herself. Like I said, it must be deeper than she's willing to share but what she has shared, it's more physical issues. What she does share is things like being unhappy with her body, unhappy that she makes goals for herself but fails. A few years ago I competed in bodybuilding then she made a goal to compete in bikini in bodybuilding but gave up.

Neither of us want kids, we have talked about marriage and the steps to take to get there, which was going pretty good but we both agreed we were at a good spot and not rush to get there.

January 26, 2022

I’m trying to figure out why you are kissing and cuddling a woman who says that she doesn’t want to have sex with you and she doesn’t know why?

Are you kissing and cuddling with the belief that it will lead to more eventually? If so, how long are you willing to wait?

January 26, 2022

3 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I’m trying to figure out why you are kissing and cuddling a woman who says that she doesn’t want to have sex with you and she doesn’t know why?

Are you kissing and cuddling with the belief that it will lead to more eventually? If so, how long are you willing to wait?

It's not that she doesn't know why, I only know what she tells me. She says it's because she's not ready yet. It's that I don't understand her reasoning and I think that's because I don't know what she means by she needs to work on herself.

Edited January 26, 2022 by ItsTheDay

January 26, 2022

8 minutes ago, ItsTheDay said:

What she does share is things like being unhappy with her body, unhappy that she makes goals for herself but fails.

Many women will have body image issues that contribute to low self esteem and relationship issues - but it’s probably not very common for a woman to end a long term relationship to get some therapy.

Again, I think the fact that she has made such an extreme decision indicates that there are some bigger issues here. Either, your relationship had run it’s course or she has some things that she is really struggling with - both of these would make me think the chances of getting back to a healthy, happy, sexual place with her is not very likely. I’m sorry.

Edited January 26, 2022 by BaileyB

January 26, 2022

2 minutes ago, ItsTheDay said:

It's not that she doesn't know why, I only know what she tells me. She says it's because she's not ready yet.

Sorry, that was a poor choice of words on my behalf.

January 26, 2022

13 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Many women will have body image issues that contribute to low self esteem and relationship issues

Here's another kicker. She talks like she's not happy with her body but when I give her compliments, they seem like they mean nothing. We were talking about this a couple weeks ago and she asked why I liked a certain part of her body so much, so I explained and she says "I feel like that's the only thing people notice about me". She explained a little more and said she always either hears people talking about it, people tell her or people telling her this person or that person has commented on it. Then she made a comment saying "Hello, how about my personality".

Edited January 26, 2022 by ItsTheDay

January 26, 2022

16 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Sorry, that was a poor choice of words on my behalf.

It's fine. To go a little deeper in this, she was unhappy with the person she was. She didn't like that regardless of how good I treated her, she would snap at me over the littlest of things. She would ask my help with something, or just ask me to do something for her and I would but if I asked for the same, she wouldn't. She used that as an example and one of the things she needs to work and in order for her to work on them, she wants to find out where it's coming from.

January 26, 2022

1 hour ago, ItsTheDay said:

She talks like she's not happy with her body but when I give her compliments, they seem like they mean nothing.

That’s because, if she feels this unhappy about herself - there is nothing you can say that she will be able to hear/accept.

1 hour ago, ItsTheDay said:

She used that as an example and one of the things she needs to work and in order for her to work on them, she wants to find out where it's coming from.

Ok, but to be fair - people all over the world are trying to work on these things while still in their relationship. These are relatively small things, people all over the world are trying to be kinder to their partner while stuck at home with their partner during the pandemic. Some day, we do good. Other days, we realize we have to keep trying!

The fact that she would end your relationship to work on these things tells me that she is really struggling with her self esteem and mental health -

Did you by chance start dating when you were 16 such that she has never had time to be single and discover her own person?

I think the challenge for you here is that she is sending you mixed signals. She is obviously struggling with some things on a personal level which is causing her to put a boundary in place - no relationship, no sex. But, she also wants the comfort and security that you provide and she is leading you to believe that the cuddling and kissing will possibly lead to a relationship again.

From my perspective, when somebody tells you they don’t want to be in a relationship with you because they have some things to figure out about themselves - that’s a pretty big sign that you need to lower your expectations and let that person go (to do what they need to do). You want a healthy partner for yourself and right now, she is telling you that she is not a healthy or safe partner. And while I wouldn’t end my relationship with the woman, I would put a boundary in place that says - no cuddling or kissing if we are not in a relationship. What she is doing is not fair to you - If she needs time on her own to get herself together, then she needs to stop leaning on you to be her emotional crutch… available to offer the support and affection that she wants while offering you very little in return…

Just my humble opinion, take it for what it’s worth. Best wishes.

Edited January 26, 2022 by BaileyB

January 26, 2022

ok wow. First off, I would say to see what she has to say without trying too hard to figure out everything in advance. I mean, you've been churning all her indecision over in your head for almost a year. Secondly, sadly if I had a crystal ball, I don't imagine she will say anything much different than she already has even though she "wants to talk". She is the equivalent of someone who pushes her food around on her plate without really eating

The way you've describe the situation. I think she sounds asexual or not into sex. Thus she is getting everything she wants and needs without pressure and some freedom by having broken up with you. i mean you are basically bf/gf without sex. And to break up from Easter to June isn't long at all so she hasn't really been without a "boyfriend" nor has she probably truly been working on herself. I guess the question is do you see any positive difference or growth in how she has been since the "breakup"? I'd guess not. Conducting the relationship with you, the way she has, isn't really a growth-oriented, evolved move. doesn't sound like she is facing her problems truly or sorting them out just yet. I would wait to hear what she has to say though. Seems fair. And ask as probing questions as you can.

My question really would be to you: why are you doing this to yourself? I can't see that you were getting anything good from it before the breakup and it seems like it has run its course. It doesn't sound fulfilling to you and like you are in danger of getting into a one-sided sexless relationship. It's like you'd be doing the same things but hoping (against reason) for a different outcome. I think you will get the same outcome. I feel like even if she works on herself that in some sense you are dealing with the way she is calibrated and things might change a little but not a lot "when she gets better or works on herself". I think you deserve more and someone more fulfilling to you.

January 26, 2022

4 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

That’s because, if she feels this unhappy about herself - there is nothing you can say that she will be able to hear/accept.

Ok, but to be fair - people all over the world are trying to work on these things while still in their relationship. These are relatively small things, people all over the world are trying to be kinder to their partner while stuck at home with their partner during the pandemic. Some day, we do good. Other days, we realize we have to keep trying!

The fact that she would end your relationship to work on these things tells me that she is really struggling with her self esteem and mental health -

Did you by chance start dating when you were 16 such that she has never had time to be single and discover her own person?

I think the challenge for you here is that she is sending you mixed signals. She is obviously struggling with some things on a personal level which is causing her to put a boundary in place - no relationship, no sex. But, she also wants the comfort and security that you provide and she is leading you to believe that the cuddling and kissing will possibly lead to a relationship again.

From my perspective, when somebody tells you they don’t want to be in a relationship with you because they have some things to figure out about themselves - that’s a pretty big sign that you need to lower your expectations and let that person go (to do what they need to do). You want a healthy partner for yourself and right now, she is telling you that she is not a healthy or safe partner. And while I wouldn’t end my relationship with the woman, I would put a boundary in place that says - no cuddling or kissing if we are not in a relationship. What she is doing is not fair to you - If she needs time on her own to get herself together, then she needs to stop leaning on you to be her emotional crutch… available to offer the support and affection that she wants while offering you very little in return…

Just my humble opinion, take it for what it’s worth. Best wishes.

We were both in our 30's when we started dating. I really don't think she missed out on being her own person. She blames a lot of her problems on her relationship before ours, they only dated for a year but then were on and off for a year afterwards.

She recently made friends with a new crowd, most are still in there early to mid 20's and they go out often, bars, drinking, dancing night clubs etc. I'm not too sure what to think of that.

I did tell her the other day I think we need to chill with the kissing and cuddling, she didn't seem too happy about it. She said she knows it's hard for me but it's easy for her to separate that from sex and she enjoys being close with me and intimate with me in a way that doesn't lead to sex.

January 26, 2022

Her not being interested in someone else doesn't mean she's interested in having a relationship with you again. She's unhappy, but she's too afraid to be alone. You are being used. All you are doing is enabling this behavior. In order for her to decide what she wants, is to be on her own to figure it out. This is confusing you, and prohibiting you from moving on and possible meeting someone new. What she is doing is not fair to you. It's been months now and nothing has changed. Time to make better/ healthier decisions.

January 26, 2022

14 minutes ago, ItsTheDay said:

I did tell her the other day I think we need to chill with the kissing and cuddling, she didn't seem too happy about it. She said she knows it's hard for me but it's easy for her to separate that from sex and she enjoys being close with me and intimate with me in a way that doesn't lead to sex.

In other words, this relationship is very one sided. It’s all about what she wants and she’s not happy when you don’t provide it. But, she’s not about to give you what you really want - which is a committed relationship, a sexual relationship, with a woman.

14 minutes ago, ItsTheDay said:

She blames a lot of her problems on her relationship before ours, they only dated for a year but then were on and off for a year afterwards.

Sure, but this was 8-10 years ago. She is saying that she is still dealing with the effects of a relationship that happened 8-10 years ago? After she has been in a healthy relationship with you for the past 8 years?

If this is true, and she has unresolved issues from her previous relationship, she needs to be single and she needs to deal with these issues. She should have done this before wasting 8 years of your life…

14 minutes ago, ItsTheDay said:

She recently made friends with a new crowd, most are still in there early to mid 20's and they go out often, bars, drinking, dancing night clubs etc. I'm not too sure what to think of that.

Now we know why she doesn’t want to “commit” to you - it’s not as easy to do this if you are in an adult relationship with a man. Her new interests are not consistent with a serious, committed relationship. That doesn’t stop her from doing what is best for her. She wants both - her freedom and the affection and security you provide.

Edited January 26, 2022 by BaileyB

January 26, 2022

6 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Sure, but this was 8-10 years ago. She is saying that she is still dealing with the effects of a relationship that happened 8-10 years ago? After she has been in a healthy relationship with you for the past 8 years?

This is what she claims, that she never really worked on herself after that relationship. I just still find it hard to believe that after all these years, she pins it on that.

8 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Now we know why she doesn’t want to “commit” to you - it’s not as easy to do this if you are in an adult relationship with a man. Her new interests are not consistent with a serious, committed relationship. That doesn’t stop her from doing what is best for her. She wants both - her freedom and the affection and security you provide.

Yeah this is valid and I'm pretty sure this is the reason. This was actually going on towards the end of our relationship. Her and my mother even had a little talk and my mother told her she needs to grow up, she's not in college anymore and she should know what she wants in life.

January 26, 2022

1 minute ago, ItsTheDay said:

Yeah this is valid and I'm pretty sure this is the reason. This was actually going on towards the end of our relationship. Her and my mother even had a little talk and my mother told her she needs to grow up, she's not in college anymore and she should know what she wants in life.

I’m assuming that what has happened here is that you are no longer compatible in terms of your values and life goals. You seem to be more dedicated to the idea of a committed relationship (you’ve stayed with this woman for more than eight years despite all this breakup drama). She seems to want her freedom.

The problem is - you both have feelings for each other, or at least you clearly have feelings for her. And, she clearly doesn’t want to be alone. She doesn’t want to be in a relationship - where she is obligated and accountable to another person - but she also doesn’t want to be alone.

As smackie said above, you are spinning your wheels and this is keeping you from finding a relationship with a woman that will bring you what you really want - how much longer are you willing to do that?

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