How to proceed

[Johnson1]

Well we had our 2nd date and it was great. We hungout with some of her closest friends and even her guy bff, who was cool. He had a girl of his own he's been going with for a few months. By the end of the night she wanted me to come back to her place, but she said she'd have to 'sneak me in' as not to wake her kids. By this time it was about 1am. She said she'd never done that with anyone else. What I'd thought about as we were walking in her front door was 'What if 1 (or all 4) of her kids are still awake?' How could she have known for sure if they were asleep? When we walked in we went directly to her bedroom. She didn't asked me to tip-toe or to be quiet or anything. She didn't seem concerned in the slightest about us being heard or seen at anytime, especially with us walking across the floor in boots. All 4 of her kids are in their teens. I had to leave at 5am because I had to get back to my place 2.5 hours away, but she asked if I could bring her back to her car because she left hers at the bar, which I was happy to do. Then we said our goodbyes and parted ways 

Okay so here's the thing, what do you think about her sneaking me into her house with her kids there sleeping? Keep in mind I never heard or saw them. Should I be concerned that she brought me home and we ended up in bed on the second date, even if we didn't have sex? We came about as close as you can get. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Johnson1

[petee]

1 hour ago, Johnson1 said:

Well we had our 2nd date and it was great. We hungout with some of her closest friends and even her guy bff, who was cool. He had a girl of his own he's been going with for a few months. By the end of the night she wanted me to come back to her place, but she said she'd have to 'sneak me in' as not to wake her kids. By this time it was about 1am. She said she'd never done that with anyone else. What I'd thought about as we were walking in her front door was 'What if 1 (or all 4) of her kids are still awake?' How could she have known for sure if they were asleep? When we walked in we went directly to her bedroom. She didn't asked me to tip-toe or to be quiet or anything. She didn't seem concerned in the slightest about us being heard or seen at anytime, especially with us walking across the floor in boots. All 4 of her kids are in their teens. I had to leave at 5am because I had to get back to my place 2.5 hours away, but she asked if I could bring her back to her car because she left hers at the bar, which I was happy to do. Then we said our goodbyes and parted ways 

Okay so here's the thing, what do you think about her sneaking me into her house with her kids there sleeping? Keep in mind I never heard or saw them. Should I be concerned that she brought me home and we ended up in bed on the second date, even if we didn't have sex? We came about as close as you can get. 

She was being considerate of her kids, not wanting to wake them up. Are they at school today? So, you need to calm down and don’t overthink everything.

You are past the interview stage now, now it’s time to shape things, suggest stuff to do, make a good plan for when you do hang out. Probably too early to meet the kids, so expect to be second fiddle. 
You need to stop timing her responses, difficult and frustrating, but she’s no teeny bobber, she’s a lady with an established life and kids.

It’s so easy for me to say, but don’t try and control the flow, accept her pace. Relationships don’t suddenly ignite, they can be slow burners, and 2 1/2 hours is a challenge. My wife live 7 hours away when we courted, and boy it was a slow courtship, with me giving in for a year as she got her head straight after a painful divorce.

Everything will be fine, but do not overthink, do not get frustrated and don’t push… if it’s right it will develope!

[Johnson1]

5 hours ago, petee said:

She was being considerate of her kids, not wanting to wake them up. Are they at school today? So, you need to calm down and don’t overthink everything.

You are past the interview stage now, now it’s time to shape things, suggest stuff to do, make a good plan for when you do hang out. Probably too early to meet the kids, so expect to be second fiddle. 
You need to stop timing her responses, difficult and frustrating, but she’s no teeny bobber, she’s a lady with an established life and kids.

It’s so easy for me to say, but don’t try and control the flow, accept her pace. Relationships don’t suddenly ignite, they can be slow burners, and 2 1/2 hours is a challenge. My wife live 7 hours away when we courted, and boy it was a slow courtship, with me giving in for a year as she got her head straight after a painful divorce.

Everything will be fine, but do not overthink, do not get frustrated and don’t push… if it’s right it will develope!

Thanks Petee. I try not to over-think it, but you have to think on things otherwise you'd be stupid not to. Isn't that why people look for red flags? They analyze things and say, hey, this doesn't seem right. I don't want to think the wrong things based on what she tells me or does at this point. I care a lot and wear my heart on my sleeve. I don't multi-date. I don't understand how people can kiss and love on a person one night, then turn around the next night and do it with somebody else. I only go with one person at a time, who I 'think' is a good person. I guess the reason why I've always rushed things, or why anybody rushes things is because they want to know right away how much that person cares and is into it. These days everybody looks at dating like they're test driving new cars to see which one they want to buy. People aren't cars. I would like nothing more than to feel totally at ease with her to the point where I could just sit back and say 'Ahhhh....no worries' (if that's even possible). Even still you can be married to someone for years and think you know them, only to find out that they had hidden affairs behind your back that you never knew about. This new lady was married for 16 years and she found out her husband had been cheating on her. Right before she asked for a divorce she told me she went out and "interviewed" guys for sex because she wanted to feel "alive" again. She didn't do it out of revenge. She ended up finding some guy to have a torrid sex affair with. She said she hated having sex with her husband, but she also said she gave him all the sex he wanted and he had no reason to go anywhere else, and the only reason he cheated was because he was never satisfied and felt entitled because he makes a good living. The two contradict. If she hated having sex with him, how could she be giving him everything he wants? It doesn't make sense. She said he put a tracker on her car, so he had trust issues with her. I think he cheated not because he was insatiable, but because he thought she was cheating on him first. It's ironic because my ex-fiance told me the same thing happened with her and her ex of 15 years. She told me he cheated because he thought she was cheating. Is it over-thinking or just be smart by evaluating everything she's telling me to put together a picture what kind of person she is and whether or not I'm wasting my time being with a sexahaulic who would cheat. Seeing is believing. Even she said actions speak louder than words. I'd like to say that I wish I didn't have to overthink, but in reality it's irresponsible not to. Like Wiseman said, my screening process wasn't good with my ex's. You have to evaluate what people are saying and what they're doing to even have a screening process. They say you're always supposed to go with your gut, and so far as much as I like her and as much as I want to believe she's a great person and NOT over-think, there seems to be some contradiction in the things she's telling me. My ex-fiance was huge on contradictions. One day she would tell me I need to find other girls and that I needed to leave, and that she didn't give a crap about me or my kids, then turn around and say she can't understand why I can't see how much she loves me. It made no sense. It's impossible to know what to believe with people who constantly contradict what they say from one minute to the next. This is why I want to get to know someone quickly, so I know if I'm wasting my time. I've wasted too much of my time on the wrong people over the last 8 years.

[Alpacalia]

8 hours ago, Johnson1 said:

Okay so here's the thing, what do you think about her sneaking me into her house with her kids there sleeping? Keep in mind I never heard or saw them. Should I be concerned that she brought me home and we ended up in bed on the second date, even if we didn't have sex? We came about as close as you can get. 

Which of these concerns you most. On the second date, she invited you to her home or her children were there?

Kids being there is indeed a bit premature.

Explain to her why you'd rather not spend alone time with her just yet and with her kids there.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Alpaca

[glows]

7 minutes ago, Johnson1 said:

Thanks Petee. I try not to over-think it, but you have to think on things otherwise you'd be stupid not to. Isn't that why people look for red flags? They analyze things and say, hey, this doesn't seem right. I don't want to think the wrong things based on what she tells me or does at this point. I care a lot and wear my heart on my sleeve. I don't multi-date. I don't understand how people can kiss and love on a person one night, then turn around the next night and do it with somebody else. I only go with one person at a time, who I 'think' is a good person. I guess the reason why I've always rushed things, or why anybody rushes things is because they want to know right away how much that person cares and is into it. These days everybody looks at dating like they're test driving new cars to see which one they want to buy. People aren't cars. I would like nothing more than to feel totally at ease with her to the point where I could just sit back and say 'Ahhhh....no worries' (if that's even possible). Even still you can be married to someone for years and think you know them, only to find out that they had hidden affairs behind your back that you never knew about. This new lady was married for 16 years and she found out her husband had been cheating on her. Right before she asked for a divorce she told me she went out and "interviewed" guys for sex because she wanted to feel "alive" again. She didn't do it out of revenge. She ended up finding some guy to have a torrid sex affair with. She said she hated having sex with her husband, but she also said she gave him all the sex he wanted and he had no reason to go anywhere else, and the only reason he cheated was because he was never satisfied and felt entitled because he makes a good living. The two contradict. If she hated having sex with him, how could she be giving him everything he wants? It doesn't make sense. She said he put a tracker on her car, so he had trust issues with her. I think he cheated not because he was insatiable, but because he thought she was cheating on him first. It's ironic because my ex-fiance told me the same thing happened with her and her ex of 15 years. She told me he cheated because he thought she was cheating. Is it over-thinking or just be smart by evaluating everything she's telling me to put together a picture what kind of person she is and whether or not I'm wasting my time being with a sexahaulic who would cheat. Seeing is believing. Even she said actions speak louder than words. I'd like to say that I wish I didn't have to overthink, but in reality it's irresponsible not to. Like Wiseman said, my screening process wasn't good with my ex's. You have to evaluate what people are saying and what they're doing to even have a screening process. They say you're always supposed to go with your gut, and so far as much as I like her and as much as I want to believe she's a great person and NOT over-think, there seems to be some contradiction in the things she's telling me. My ex-fiance was huge on contradictions. One day she would tell me I need to find other girls and that I needed to leave, and that she didn't give a crap about me or my kids, then turn around and say she can't understand why I can't see how much she loves me. It made no sense. It's impossible to know what to believe with people who constantly contradict what they say from one minute to the next. This is why I want to get to know someone quickly, so I know if I'm wasting my time. I've wasted too much of my time on the wrong people over the last 8 years.

I am not sure why you slept there and didn’t have sex but ok… no harm done. I think you should have excused yourself however and gone home that night, and treated this as more of a date rather than an opportunity to investigate and find things to be uneasy about. You might have come out of this clearer minded the next morning with more sleep. 

The only problem with you two are your past relationships and not being over them. You are still hurt carrying a chip over your shoulder fearful women are like your ex and she is wild and free and certainly TMI in regards to her previous marriage. It’s a terrible mix and I’m sorry to say that. 

Let it rest for awhile, do other things, let this mull over in your mind. If it doesn’t feel good, don’t keep seeing her.

[Johnson1]

2 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

Which of these concerns you most. On the second date, she invited you to her home or her children were there?

Kids being there is indeed a bit premature.

Explain to her why you'd rather not spend alone time with her with her kids there.

Both. I'd like to think I'm that special that I'm the only one she's ever done that with so quick (or is doing that with), but is it reality? She says she's a stay at home mom who is devoted to and spends most of time with her kids, but she also very sexual has a ton of friends and likes to go out. I guess what I'd like to know is if she's really home with her kids when she never responds back on texts or is it because she's out at the bar.

[Alpacalia]

Just now, Johnson1 said:

Both. I'd like to think I'm that special that I'm the only one she's ever done that with so quick (or is doing that with), but is it reality? She says she's a stay at home mom who is devoted to and spends most of time with her kids, but she also very sexual has a ton of friends and likes to go out. I guess what I'd like to know is if she's really home with her kids when she never responds back on texts or is it because she's out at the bar.

Of course. That's a natural response (wanting to feel special).

As I was writing my last response, I glanced through the other post.

It's been a trying time for you since your ex cheated on you, clouding your judgment and affecting your behavior. Perhaps she simply doesn't fit into your lifestyle at this point. All of the discussions you're both having sound a little overwhelming at this point.

[Johnson1]

37 minutes ago, glows said:

I am not sure why you slept there and didn’t have sex but ok… no harm done. I think you should have excused yourself however and gone home that night, and treated this as more of a date rather than an opportunity to investigate and find things to be uneasy about. You might have come out of this clearer minded the next morning with more sleep. 

The only problem with you two are your past relationships and not being over them. You are still hurt carrying a chip over your shoulder fearful women are like your ex and she is wild and free and certainly TMI in regards to her previous marriage. It’s a terrible mix and I’m sorry to say that. 

Let it rest for awhile, do other things, let this mull over in your mind. If it doesn’t feel good, don’t keep seeing her.

That's the thing. I just don't know. I don't want to throw something great away by assuming the wrong thing because she's not giving me the kind of assurance I'd like to have. I can't ask that of her either. When she asked what I'm doing I sent her a picture of me at home with my cat. It would be nice to see her in action with her kids. She says she's with them every day and night, but is she? Or are they with their dad? What does she do with her time when her ex has them? You're right, it is about being burned from the past. I've been with so many deceitful people, but I don't want to put the past on her if she's truly different.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Johnson1

[Johnson1]

2 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

Of course. That's a natural response (wanting to feel special).

As I was writing my last response, I glanced through the other post.

It's been a trying time for you since your ex cheated on you, clouding your judgment and affecting your behavior. Perhaps she simply doesn't fit into your lifestyle at this point. All of the discussions you're both having sound a little overwhelming at this point.

Assurance that she's home with her kids. If I saw that everything would be cool.

[poppyfields]

29 minutes ago, Johnson1 said:

I guess what I'd like to know is if she's really home with her kids when she never responds back on texts or is it because she's out at the bar.

No one can answer this^, not us, not you, not anyone.  Except her and unfortunately it's much too soon to ask and even if you did, it may not be the truth anyway.

Dating and relationships are a risk, there are never ever any guarantees.  EVER.  I don't mean to sound condescending but please learn this. 

Yes you might get hurt but that is a risk we all take otherwise no one would be having any relationships!

I keep saying this but you must be able to tolerate uncertainty especially in these early stages, otherwise you will come across to your date as anxious, insecure, needy and possibly drive them off.

Because no matter how much someone initially likes you, anxious, insecure, needy, seeking reassurance ARE huge turn offs.

The key to successful dating is resilience.  The knowledge that you will be OK no matter what the outcome. 

When you're able to detach from the outcome, and simply enjoy the process, the journey, armed with the knowledge you will be OK no matter what, you are more relaxed, more open, less anxious AND more attractive to the opposite sex.

Take up yoga, go for a run, RELAX.

You are looking for a guarantee, assurances she's this or that, forget that and simply enjoy the process of getting to know her, that is the only way you will be able to determine anything.

If you are not able to do that, then you are going to have a very very difficult time.

You will constantly be on edge, anxious, doubting, questioning (just as you're doing now) and trust me no matter how hard you try, she will sense that negative energy which I'm sure I don't have tell you is NOT good. 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by poppyfields

[Alpacalia]

2 minutes ago, Johnson1 said:

Assurance that she's home with her kids. If I saw that everything would be cool.

I can't see this working out for the two of you, honestly.

Both of you are still feeling the effects of your last relationships, but you're both handling them differently.

Asking a woman you've only dated twice to change her lifestyle and spend more time at home with her children comes across as controlling. If partying is a "must do" in her life that she simply cannot live without, she must do it even if you don't like it. That being said, it is normal and natural for a woman to change over time when she is in a loving relationship.

Instead of waiting for her to "grow out of it" and stop partying, ask yourself why you continue spending time with someone who doesn't share your current values and interests.

Having been through a similar phase after my last long-term relationship, though not near this extent, I completely understand where you are coming from.

[Johnson1]

5 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

No one can answer this^, not us, not you, not anyone.  Except her and unfortunately it's much too soon to ask and even if you did, it may not be the truth anyway.

Dating and relationships are a risk, there are never ever any guarantees.  EVER.  I don't mean to sound condescending but please learn this. 

Yes you might get hurt but that is a risk we all take otherwise no one would be having any relationships!

I keep saying this but you must be able to tolerate uncertainty especially in these early stages, otherwise you will come across to your date as anxious, insecure, needy and possibly drive them off.

Because no matter how much someone initially likes you, anxious, insecure, needy, seeking reassurance ARE huge turn offs.

The key to successful dating is resilience.  The knowledge that you will be OK no matter what the outcome. 

When you're able to detach from the outcome, and simply enjoy the process, the journey, you are more relaxed, more open, AND more attractive to the opposite sex.

Take up yoga, go for a run, RELAX.

You are looking for a guarantee, assurances she's this or that, forget that and simply enjoy the process of getting to know her, that is the only way you will be able to determine anything.

If you are not able to do that, then you are going to have a very very difficult time.

You will constantly be on edge, anxious, doubting, questioning (just as you're doing now) and trust me no matter how hard you try, she will sense that negative energy which I'm sure I don't have tell you is NOT good. 

 

 

 

So basically not care what she does. That's pretty much what it boils down to. Words like needy and insecure drive me nuts. It's not about that at all. It's a matter of someone out playing the field while I'm at home being a good person for them. Nobody likes being played for the fool. I don't need anyone. I can get a lot of women. I'm a tall lead singer. I just want one person I can believe in who gives me what I give them.

[poppyfields]

Xxxx

Edited February 1, 2022 by poppyfields

[Johnson1]

30 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

I can't see this working out for the two of you, honestly.

Both of you are still feeling the effects of your last relationships, but you're both handling them differently.

Asking a woman you've only dated twice to change her lifestyle and spend more time at home with her children comes across as controlling. If partying is a "must do" in her life that she simply cannot live without, she must do it even if you don't like it. That being said, it is normal and natural for a woman to change over time when she is in a loving relationship.

Instead of waiting for her to "grow out of it" and stop partying, ask yourself why you continue spending time with someone who doesn't share your current values and interests.

Having been through a similar phase after my last long-term relationship, though not near this extent, I completely understand where you are coming from.

I'm not asking her to change her lifestyle and I'm not asking her to not be with her kids. Being a dad myself I commend that. Things will be better as it progresses to the point where I'm involved more in her life and can see her rituals and schedule. Right now I don't know when she has the kids and when she doesn't. Part of getting to know someone and how reliable they are is seeing (not just hearing) how they spend their time.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Johnson1

[Johnson1]

14 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Yikes.

I wish you luck OP, hope it works out. 

I'm not a player. That's all I'm saying. I know it's not popular these days, but I take things one person at a time. It believe it'll work out once we get to spend more time together and I can see that she's the same.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Johnson1

[poppyfields]

9 minutes ago, Johnson1 said:

I take things one person at a time. 

As do I, I don't multi-date.

I stand by what I posted, it's the best attitude to have imo and will render the best results as well in my experience.

I'm sorry you took.offense to it or didn’t understand it because it's NOT about not caring what they do, it's about having the confidence and ability to live with a bit of uncertainty, not having all the answers at first, and enjoying the process, the journey of finding out. 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by poppyfields

[Johnson1]

Believing in people is like believing in God. Maybe that explains why there's so many atheists these days. If people can't physically see and have to endure uncertainty, they'd rather choose not to believe. I still believe, but with a cautious optimism.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Johnson1

[Johnson1]

29 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

As do I, I don't multi-date.

I stand by what I posted, it's the best attitude to have imo and will render the best results as well in my experience.

I'm sorry you took.offense to it or didn’t understand it because it's NOT about not caring what they do, it's about having the confidence and ability to live with a bit of uncertainty, not having all the answers at first, and enjoying the process, the journey of finding out. 

 

 

I agree and I'm enjoying the process. I see her as someone different when I'm with her, and I believe she feels the same. I know just because we don't necessarily communicate when we're apart in the kind of way that I have in the past with others that have showed the same level of interest early on doesn't mean she's hiding something. I get that. My best girl friend (who is now married) said to me one time she agrees that she would rather move quicker to find out who someone is rather than drag it out for months or years only to find out you wasted time, but I also understand that taking it slow could be a good thing. I'm just not used to that. I'm sure she appreciates that I sent her a pic of me at home with my cat and not that leave her wondering what I'm doing. I guess I'm just that way. I like assuring, especially for someone who's been through a deceitful past.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Johnson1

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, Johnson1 said:

I'm not asking her to change her lifestyle and I'm not asking her to not be with her kids. Being a dad myself I commend that. Things will be better as it progresses to the point where I'm involved more in her life and can see her rituals and schedule. Right now I don't know when she has the kids and when she doesn't. Part of getting to know someone and how reliable they are is seeing (not just hearing) how they spend their time.

Okay.

She might at some point also conclude that dating uncertain men are too high of a risk.

Wish you well.

[Johnson1]

One thing I don't understand is that she gives her guy admirers on social media the impression she's not with anyone at all. Why make guys think she's 'available' when she's dating someone she really likes and wants to continue seeing? I'm trying not to take things too seriously right now, but she makes it hard when we're together. She makes me feel like I'm this amazing person that she really wants to be with long-term, especially bringing me out to meet all her friends.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Johnson1

[poppyfields]

11 minutes ago, Johnson1 said:

One thing I don't understand is that she gives her guy admirers on social media the impression she's not with anyone at all.

How so?  What sorts of things does she say on socials that give that impression?

[Wiseman2]

19 minutes ago, Johnson1 said:

Why make guys think she's 'available' when she's dating someone she really likes and wants to continue seeing? I'm trying not to take things too seriously right now

You've been on a couple of dates and are not exclusive, so both of you can talk to meet and date others.

[glows]

2 hours ago, Johnson1 said:

That's the thing. I just don't know. I don't want to throw something great away by assuming the wrong thing because she's not giving me the kind of assurance I'd like to have. I can't ask that of her either. When she asked what I'm doing I sent her a picture of me at home with my cat. It would be nice to see her in action with her kids. She says she's with them every day and night, but is she? Or are they with their dad? What does she do with her time when her ex has them? You're right, it is about being burned from the past. I've been with so many deceitful people, but I don't want to put the past on her if she's truly different.

Eh. You're choosing to see/date someone who just filed for divorce days ago. This is A+ for analysis and all but I think it's inevitable that this isn't going to work if you're looking for someone to give you all the assurances you need. That's what I meant by a terrible mix. Enjoy her company though if you can. It doesn't sound like you are... 

[Johnson1]

13 minutes ago, glows said:

Eh. You're choosing to see/date someone who just filed for divorce days ago. This is A+ for analysis and all but I think it's inevitable that this isn't going to work if you're looking for someone to give you all the assurances you need. That's what I meant by a terrible mix. Enjoy her company though if you can. It doesn't sound like you are... 

She didn't just file. She's officially divorced as of today. There are unanswered questions. I do enjoy her company very much. That's just it. I'd like to feel as close when we're apart as we are when we're together. She mentioned about maybe talking on the phone today. I'd always rather do that. Texting is cold and impersonal. She said she's not big on talking on the phone, but when we spoke on the phone before our last date we had an awesome conversation. The thing is I like to talk to her more but I feel uneasy calling her because I don't know if she's busy with her kids and it makes me feel like I'd be intruding on her personal time with them. She doesn't work. As I said previously, she's living off alimony and child support.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Johnson1

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, Johnson1 said:

She's officially divorced as of today. She said she's not big on talking on the phone.

It sounds like she wants her freedom to play the field and explore single life. Especially dating local men.

You're right not to take this seriously since there are too many red flags and logistical problems from the  distance to her being a busy single working mother.