What's acceptable?

[Billybob]

8 minutes ago, AngryGromit said:

... She can’t act abs talk ...

What's ABS? This isn't a texting forum where you have to limit yourself to a certain number of characters and have to abbreviate all your words to get your message to fit. 

I probably miss spelt something.

[Billybob]

9 minutes ago, glows said:

Oh my goodness. Chat with anyone else but her. I do understand what you mean about feeling lonely. However I think it’s prolonging your healing and messing you up even more. 

Hopefully the new year brings new company and you can let her go.

I’ll be ok when I get back to work. 

[balletomane]

OP, from your posts it sounds like you are swinging between vilifying her (she's a narcissist, she's got a personality disorder, she's "triangulating", etc.) and hoping that she'll come back if you stay in contact ("She's being really polite, what's the worst that could happen?").

You need to stop focusing on her and her state of mind and start focusing on the only thing you can control - your own choices. Do you want to keep in touch with her? If the answer is yes, own it. Don't try to justify it with pseudo-psychological theorising about being an "empath" who has been "hooked". If you chose it, you could cut contact now. If you don't want to do that, fine. No one here can tell you what to do. But you need to recognise and take responsibility for your own feelings and actions, rather than armchair-diagnosing your ex. The big question is not, "Why does she do XYZ?" but, "Why do I want a relationship with someone who does XYZ?"

Edited December 29, 2021 by balletomane

[Billybob]

17 minutes ago, balletomane said:

 ("She's being really polite, what's the worst that could happen?").

Hi,

 

this is the worst thing?  Irrespective what she is or isn’t as a person I’d rather get on with someone than not, ok we split up and her behaviour at times was crap, but like you said I put up with it..you have to understand she gaslighted and manipulated me inti thinking her actions were normal and it was my thoughts that were wrong..

 

the contact we’ve had has been polite but she told me weeks ago she’s sorry but she didn’t want to try again but friends was fine.

I’m in a good place, better than I was, I’m deciding if friends is  worthwhile etc..  I don’t really even know to what extent. She just said perhaps we can stay in touch as friends.  Just a polite gesture?

if she was asking to get back together that would be different..?

[smackie9]

The confusion is caused by the fact that people with personality disorders don't think the way we do. They lack types of empathy, seemingly to us like they don't care...well they don't have the capacity to do so. Asking why they can't see they hurt you etc, is a waste of time. They are who they are, and they won't change. You, like a lot of people get roped into their upside down world. Gaslighting, manipulation is how they navigate socially and through relationships.

So if she's being nice, etc to you now...it's still the use of manipulation, so you better get your runners on and sprint the other way as fast as you can. Friendship? nope don't do it. Haven't had enough? Have you not learned anything? Danger bay! Punt her butt to the curb.

Edited December 29, 2021 by smackie9

[Billybob]

6 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

The confusion is caused by the fact that people with personality disorders don't think the way we do. They lack types of empathy, seemingly to us like they don't care...well they don't have the capacity to do so. Asking why they can't see they hurt you etc, is a waste of time. They are who they are, and they won't change. You, like a lot of people get roped into their upside down world. Gaslighting, manipulation is how they navigate socially and through relationships.

So if she's being nice, etc to you now...it's still the use of manipulation, so you better get your runners on and sprint the other way as fast as you can. Friendship? nope don't do it. Haven't had enough? Have you not learned anything? Danger bay! Punt her butt to the curb.

Lol thanks, I enjoyed reading this :).

im to nice for my own good at times. I try and please everyone and be everyone’s friend but I know it can’t always happen. I’m not bad looking so I’ll get offers I’m sure ..    and hopefully she’ll realise what she lost when it’s to late

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, Billybob said:

 and hopefully she’ll realise what she lost when it’s to late

Again, you’re seeing her as a normal person. This isn’t going to happen. She might act like it to lure you back in, but it’s not real. Block, next! 

[balletomane]

I was in a relationship with a man who actually did have a formal diagnosis of borderline personality disorder from a psychiatrist. It's frustrating to see the myths that get peddled about it on relationship forums. The ex is almost always a "narcissist" or a "borderline", diagnosed with the help of Dr Google and a bunch of dubious pop psychology sites, while the poster is a paragon of virtue - an "empath" who is "too nice". If the ex were painting that sort of polarised picture, it would be taken as proof of their personality disorder - the fact that they see their partner as a monster, while apparently their only problem in this situation is being too much of a good person.

I chose to stay with my ex. He didn't force me. His illness was extremely difficult to live with, yes, but I remained in that situation because I enjoyed playing the rescuer. Ultimately I had to take responsibility for that aspect of my situation. I also wasted a lot of time wondering how much of his behaviour was illness and how much was under his conscious control. Ultimately that didn't matter either. The only relevant question was whether I felt safe and loved and nurtured in the relationship. The answer was no. That alone was reason enough to leave. The BPD was irrelevant.

Armchair diagnosing exes with stigma-laden mental illness is a way of comforting yourself in the short term, but it also stops you from moving on. It does this by preventing you from examining what kept you in such an unpleasant relationship, making it impossible to learn from it. After all, if the sole problem was the ex being crazy, there's nothing to learn.

[smackie9]

2 hours ago, Billybob said:

Lol thanks, I enjoyed reading this :).

im to nice for my own good at times. I try and please everyone and be everyone’s friend but I know it can’t always happen. I’m not bad looking so I’ll get offers I’m sure ..    and hopefully she’ll realise what she lost when it’s to late

I will tell you this...there's a difference between being nice, and a doormat. People respect you more when you stand up for yourself, not tolerate things you know are hurtful to you, set personal boundaries, and have the confidence to say no and mean it. You score very few points with others when you are too eager to please, so maybe turn a new leaf in the new year.

[Billybob]

On 12/30/2021 at 10:57 AM, smackie9 said:

I will tell you this...there's a difference between being nice, and a doormat. People respect you more when you stand up for yourself, not tolerate things you know are hurtful to you, set personal boundaries, and have the confidence to say no and mean it. You score very few points with others when you are too eager to please, so maybe turn a new leaf in the new year.

To be fair I did try that in a polite way before we she ended it, her anger rages over nothing we’re getting worse..

I was a project in the garden and baring in mind I work in construction I remember politely saying we need to start by doing xyz etc,,  so said no I want to start there.. I said no, we need to start here and even explained why.  Well instantly this rage came over her, shouting swearing at me. I stood with my hands on my hips in disbelief, she came up to abs literally grabbed my arms and knocked them of my hips, don’t stand there with your hands on your hips she shouted, I asked why are you acting like this! Iv got many years experience with this in my job..

any way she wanted me gone, she was saying this is why our relationship doesn’t work, there’s no communication, no communication I clearly explained where  we need to start and why.  Once inside she started smashing the door frame with her fist right in front of my face so hard her hand was blue and all bruised the next day..  

 

how I managed to stay and finish that job I’ll never know but truth is she went from being this lovely caring person to someone with mental rages, all I had to do was have a different opinion and she’d be like a switch being flicked.  Funny thing is her daughter would treat her mum exactly the same and I started seeing the same happening with her youngest too..

yet she told me 2 of her ex’s knocked her about, I’m wondering if any of it was self defence on this evidence …

I fell in love with this charismatic warm loving person that promised me everything and offered me a ready made family with open arms..  but once she knew I loved her it very slowly  this bad behaviour started to unfold, I tried to leave so many times but with all the gaslighting she made me feel like I was the one with the problem for not accepting her behaviour was normal.  There were so many tears shed over time..  just seeing how poorly she could get with her illness and the help she needed etc..  I did feel like the white knight..  

when you consider how fragile her ego was, so sensitive, she would twist my words to make her look like a victim and say why do all men keep doing this to me, I said your twisting what I’m saying please listen, she’d say everyone keeps saying I twist things, because she did..

I was always there helping her..:/

her need for attention was to build her low self esteem and low ego I understand it now but to accept she plays upto men and talk about sex was disgusting in my opinion but she even gaslighted me that..

She’s like a man eater, she gets a new man, thinks everything is wonderful then eventually her mask falls off and it’s rinse wash repeat..  thing is when she’s calm and behaving normal she’s the most loving and charismatic women Iv ever met but there seem to be a demon inside her..

she knows the way she is can and have upset people but she doesn’t seem to care..

by ending it she has saved me a life time of crap.. Iv felt so lonely over Christmas, there are days I wake up at 4am in tears because I spent the night dreaming about her,  Id drive to work in tears, even at work there would be moments I just felt totally smashed, but I keep digging deep ..

breaking up for the holiday period and not being busy has made it harder, I reached out to her in hope we could be civil to each other because I knew only she could answer my questions.. no contact was causing me so much pain and was effecting me mentally..

I kept saying when you truly love someone do you really turn your back on them. I found it difficult.,

she had convinced her self that we didn’t work because we weren’t compatible not being able to understand her behaviour was wrong and was causing problems that didn’t need to be there..  her history with men backs up what I’m saying, even her parents knew where I was coming from, her best friend told me she liked attention from men, her male friend made a comment to her about how abrupt she can be not caring about other people’s feelings as she doesn’t,  if she offends you it’s your problem your to sensitive in her eyes..

she’s left me now and all though I know she’s saved me so much pain going forward it’s just left a big hole in my life especially at Christmas when this time of year can get a lot of people down etc..

for the life of me I can’t understand why she didn’t realise I wasn’t causing problems I was trying to fix them..

This relationship has practically financially ruined me too, I’v got a huge job next year to get things stable but I will do it..

when you love someone and there behaviour hurts you, how many chances do you give them, how do you walk away from that person when you still love them? I wasn’t strong enough to do it but wish I had of months ago…

all the mental and physical abuse towards the end I had to put up with has broken me down.. and in her eyes it’s all my fault..

we couldn’t even sit down and talk like adults about what had happened and why, she can’t, it’s simply her way or else.. she won’t shoulder any of the blame, at best she’ll say WE just didn’t get on..  what man could put up with her behaviour and not eventually be effected by it. I told her that her behaviour was upsetting me but she didn’t want to know, she gaslighted me instead saying it was all me.  She’s as close to jeckle and Hyde as you’ll ever find anyone..

that’s why when I say she’s being nice to me since we split up is actually soothing..  I don’t see her as a threat.. she’s said sorry but she doesn’t want to try again to realise it doesn’t work..  I don’t see her causing any problems..

I just want to learn and move forward as quickly as possible. Reaching out to her over Christmas has made me feel some what better but it’s not a long term answer..

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, Billybob said:

when you love someone and there behaviour hurts you, how many chances do you give them, how do you walk away from that person when you still love them?

 

You didn’t love her. You loved the character she played at the beginning of the relationship to lure you in. That wasn’t her. That woman doesn’t exist. 

[Billybob]

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

You didn’t love her. You loved the character she played at the beginning of the relationship to lure you in. That wasn’t her. That woman doesn’t exist. 

Of course I loved her but you’re right.   she sold me a fake portrayal of her self..  she could at times be that person but the mask kept slipping.I think I called her aloof after the first month,  she had changed so much….   Behind closed doors she was erratic, had a face like thunder, so quick to get angry etc,,  in public people would think she’s the nicest person they ever met, it was an exaggerated version of her self to look good..

    It’s hard to know what I believe she is or isn’t any more,    When we split she said she still loved me more than anyone she’d ever loved.. that couldn’t possibly be true based on her actions..

they say narcissistic people don’t really love anyone that you’re  just a supply to them etc. 
 

i took 2 tests they use to identify a narcissistic person, on her behalf, based on her personality and traits she was a full blown narcissist both times.

One thing we can all agree on her actions are wrong, she’s toxic and I’m better off out of it, she’ll find herself another poor victim.

 

I don’t want to look on her in a bad way, The fact I’m happy she’s being polite and she said perhaps we could keep in touch as friends is nice but it’s purely a polite gesture really..  the fact she used the word perhaps is nothing certain it’s more an expression of  uncertainty or possibility. There was nothing other than politeness in her message. 
 

when I reached out and txt her over Christmas, she could of acted in many ways but she thanked me for the message and wished me all the best for the new year and said perhaps we can stay in touch as friends..

All though I should of ended it months ago to save my self I didn’t but she did, and she did it in a very quick cold manner, no validation or closure, just said it was over and ignored me…

since we reestablished some form of contact she’s been pleasant..

 

[searching heart]

Do yourself a favor.  leave this relationship and never look back .  

Edited December 30, 2021 by searching heart
spelling

[Billybob]

52 minutes ago, searching heart said:

Do yourself a favor.  leave this relationship and never look back .  

As everyone has said, dodged a bullet they say..

I just wish I knew how to stop missing her, I’m aware something they call the trauma bond, I may need professional help,  I’v had so much to deal with..

 

 

[smackie9]

The thing is, you still stood there as she raged at you....should have ended with her and walked away for good. That's sticking up for yourself, and not tolerating the behavior.

[salparadise]

18 hours ago, smackie9 said:

So if she's being nice, etc to you now...it's still the use of manipulation, so you better get your runners on and sprint the other way as fast as you can. Friendship? nope don't do it. Haven't had enough?

This post (the whole post) is close enough to what I was about to say that I don't need to repeat it. Basically the way it works with cluster B personality disorders is that every interaction is designed to help fill that big void in their self-concept and sense of homeostasis. It's similar to an egotistical need but not the same, and more survival driven. They attach to people based on the need for supply (often called narcissistic supply, but not limited to NPD) to reinforce the deficit. When they see you as a new prospect for meeting that need they shower you with what YOU need (which they're good at sensing), usually adoration, sex, and head-swelling confirmation of sexual prowess. But as the newness wears off and your supply becomes less effective filling the void they start manipulating to squeeze more out, then eventually they get to the devaluation phase where they resent the fact that you didn't fix them... which was the unspoken contract after all.

Their relationships have a predictable cycle, and they know how it goes (though probably not in conscious thought). One of the worst things that could possibly happen is for them to get dumped, which would drain every ounce of that supply-energy that they desperately need to create and preserve... so their strategy is often to dump first. When they see that you're on to them, when the manipulation isn't working, they will hit the eject button and tell themselves that they are superior because YOU are the dumpee. 

As for why she might be suggesting you remain friends, she likes orbiters, and who makes a better orbiter than a string of exes that still give her attention (secondary supply source) and who she tells herself could be good for repeat cycle if a new supply is ever scarce. So cut the cord completely and stay out of her sphere of influence. Nothing good will come of it. What you need to ask yourself is, "why was I susceptible, and why did I not only remain attached to a disordered person, but was about to marry her." The answer is that you have a personality feature that is the yen for her yang. On some level you don't believe you deserve a fully reciprocal relationship and were willing to not only accept this behavior but cling to it. Fortunately it's not nearly as problematic as her personality disorder and can be fixed through awareness and doing the necessary self-work. Counseling is recommended. The term is codependency.

Wishing you the best, man. I didn't learn all of this out of purely academic curiosity. 

[Billybob]

18 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

The thing is, you still stood there as she raged at you....should have ended with her and walked away for good. That's sticking up for yourself, and not tolerating the behavior.

I’m hindsight you’re right.. but I was so shocked and overwhelmed by her actions I didn’t really know what to do..

I thought people only acted like that in the movies..  I mean for a woman to be that way.

[Billybob]

4 minutes ago, salparadise said:

The term is codependency.

I have researched this and believe you could be right.

Iv felt alone my entire life since childhood, I’m essentially a loner, I have friends and family but I don’t rely on anyone other than my self, I’m always giving to please other people.   Having said all this I’m a content happy person..  other than her, I accept my life and who I am…

What you have to realise is not every minute of every day was bad with her, when she made the effort we got on so well..  for what ever reason she couldn’t maintain a consistent level or respect or normality..   

and I found her extremely attractive but by no means was I punching above my weight…

[spiderowl]

Your girlfriend is volatile and provocative.  She has few boundaries and does not behave appropriately.  There is no point telling her this; you should just leave her and find someone who behaves better.  

She has a history of being in volatile relationships.  I doubt it is just her boyfriends who were violent; she has a violent, volatile streak herself.  She is used to provoking and getting attention like that.  I don't think you are overly jealous.  You are in a situation which is bound to make anyone feel insecure.  

I don't think you can make this relationship any better.  Your girlfriend has a lot of behavioural problems and she is gaslighting you by suggesting you are at fault if you don't like what she is doing.

Seriously, you need to leave her and find someone more stable and faithful.

[Billybob]

4 hours ago, spiderowl said:

Your girlfriend is volatile and provocative.  She has few boundaries and does not behave appropriately.  There is no point telling her this; you should just leave her and find someone who behaves better.  

She has a history of being in volatile relationships.  I doubt it is just her boyfriends who were violent; she has a violent, volatile streak herself.  She is used to provoking and getting attention like that.  I don't think you are overly jealous.  You are in a situation which is bound to make anyone feel insecure.  

I don't think you can make this relationship any better.  Your girlfriend has a lot of behavioural problems and she is gaslighting you by suggesting you are at fault if you don't like what she is doing.

Seriously, you need to leave her and find someone more stable and faithful.

Thank you ….

I always felt her actions were questionable and wrong, for over a year now I’v been searching for answers trying to understand what I could of done to make her the way she is..

you summed her up very well..

She may be a better person more considerate as a friend? She has friends that she seem to get on with fine and they seem to accept her being the way she is etc..

[Uruktopi]

1 hour ago, Billybob said:

She may be a better person more considerate as a friend?

Don´t know.

But in my experience, just personal, it´s rare to get a good friend from a bad Ex partner.

[Billybob]

3 hours ago, Uruktopi said:

Don´t know.

But in my experience, just personal, it´s rare to get a good friend from a bad Ex partner.

I don’t think it will happen, I don’t think it would be healthy for me long term..  she’d only want me when she needed something..

After all the love I gave her and her children and the help I gave her and everything I done etc.  She wasn’t able to respect me or treat me right as her fiancé..

what on earth would make her treat me better as a friend.? She wouldn’t..  I’m surprised her other long term friends and family haven’t worked out she’s self destructive..

[daphne]

On 12/29/2021 at 4:56 PM, balletomane said:

Armchair diagnosing exes with stigma-laden mental illness is a way of comforting yourself in the short term, but it also stops you from moving on. It does this by preventing you from examining what kept you in such an unpleasant relationship, making it impossible to learn from it. After all, if the sole problem was the ex being crazy, there's nothing to learn.

Spot on.  OP is going to spin his wheels until he accepts that the nice empath narrative is a copout.  He dismissed his boundaries because he was getting something out of the relationship.  I think he should figure out what that was and if it's healthy.  If he's a rescuer, he needs to own it and let it go or he'll find himself in a similar situation or back with the ex.  

[dramafreezone]

On 12/29/2021 at 3:09 AM, Billybob said:

any way, she flips out and gets angry slapping me in the face

You should've been gone after this.  There's no justification for this, someone physically assaulting you is a severe act of disrespect, no coming back from it in my eyes.

Edited December 31, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Billybob]

15 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

You should've been gone after this.  There's no justification for this, someone physically assaulting you is a severe act of disrespect, no coming back from it in my eyes.

I’m starting to realise all this to late,  she could charm the hind legs off a Donkey and had the manipulation powers of a wizard..

I think I realise now i tolerated her bad behaviour way to long..

everyone can’t be wrong and I think 100% of people say I should of ran months ago..