Author racquetbro Posted December 24, 2021 Author Posted December 24, 2021 5 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said: Same point. You ARE considering a change. Or else you wouldn't be worried about how things would be perceived. Nope.. I appreciate your feedback, but you're misunderstanding my point. I am NOT considering a change. I am going to be the way I am going to be, regardless of what she thinks of it. BUT, I am curious about how she will perceive that (how she perceives it won't cause my to reconsider my personality though), because I want to be cognizant of that effect. Is that clear now? So you might ask "why?" That is, why would I bother worrying about what she thinks if it's not going to change anything? That's a fair question. Imagine I'm throwing a dinner party and cooking a large meal for everyone. I'm serving spaghetti in meat sauce. I find out that one of the guests is vegetarian. I'm making the meal in a large, bulk batch, so making a meatless version is too much work (let's say, in this case), so I'm not going to do it. In response, the vegetarian guest declines my invitation for the party. That's fine. I'm glad I know they're vegetarian and that's why they didn't show. It didn't change anything for me in terms of menu modifications, but I like to know that that's why they didn't show to the party. Perhaps I can learn from the situation.
Wiseman2 Posted December 24, 2021 Posted December 24, 2021 21 hours ago, racquetbro said: I want to make sure that I don't become "friend zoned" during this time. I advance for any input. Try to relax and play things by ear. You seem overly concerned with "reading her" and figuring out all the angles. Either she'll eventually warm up and have sex when she's ready or things won't work out. When you relax you won't need to decipher every word or action. Things will happen naturally without the angst about agendas. You're not friendzoned if she's dating you, coming to your place and making out.
Author racquetbro Posted December 24, 2021 Author Posted December 24, 2021 41 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: Try to relax and play things by ear. You seem overly concerned with "reading her" and figuring out all the angles. Either she'll eventually warm up and have sex when she's ready or things won't work out. When you relax you won't need to decipher every word or action. Things will happen naturally without the angst about agendas. You're not friendzoned if she's dating you, coming to your place and making out. That's sort of the understanding that I've been getting. I've actually felt a bit more relaxed over the last day or so as I've started to realize this. My personality is an odd mix of confidence (and well-earned as I've had many points of success, I've always accomplished whatever I've wanted to) and anxiety. Ironically, the anxiety seems to feed the success. In business, it pushes me to envision every possible scenario and create contingency plans so that I'm always able to have my companies properly service my clients. But business clients generally don't care about my personality or what tension I might be feeling internally, so long as I can get the job done for them. While I can see that this is a detrimental approach to an interpersonal relationship, it's a difficult habit to break, and sometimes a reminder is helpful. 1 1
glows Posted December 24, 2021 Posted December 24, 2021 59 minutes ago, racquetbro said: That's sort of the understanding that I've been getting. I've actually felt a bit more relaxed over the last day or so as I've started to realize this. My personality is an odd mix of confidence (and well-earned as I've had many points of success, I've always accomplished whatever I've wanted to) and anxiety. Ironically, the anxiety seems to feed the success. In business, it pushes me to envision every possible scenario and create contingency plans so that I'm always able to have my companies properly service my clients. But business clients generally don't care about my personality or what tension I might be feeling internally, so long as I can get the job done for them. While I can see that this is a detrimental approach to an interpersonal relationship, it's a difficult habit to break, and sometimes a reminder is helpful. You’re insightful and know yourself. Now you can change or tweak things. Don’t be your own worst enemy and break yourself down. I think you’re doing fine. 1
chillii Posted December 24, 2021 Posted December 24, 2021 Def' loosen up and relax op. Actually l would've gotten her all wound up , just for the stir of it haha. Anyway don't worry about all that crap , if she turns out to be all that, l don't even know what the word is butttt, and it didn't work out just bc of bs like that then it'll be doing you a favor anyway. 1
Lotsgoingon Posted December 24, 2021 Posted December 24, 2021 6 hours ago, racquetbro said: Imagine I'm throwing a dinner party and cooking a large meal for everyone. I'm serving spaghetti in meat sauce. I find out that one of the guests is vegetarian. I'm making the meal in a large, bulk batch, so making a meatless version is too much work (let's say, in this case), so I'm not going to do it. In response, the vegetarian guest declines my invitation for the party. That's fine. I'm glad I know they're vegetarian and that's why they didn't show. Bad, ill-fitting analogy. At a party, you aren't trying to enter into a relationship with the vegetarian. And it's OK to compromise there because parties are about compromise ... But you are trying to date this woman apparently. Therefore, don't try to anticipate how she'll react. If she reacts poorly, you have your answer that she's not a good match for you. You're asking this question as if she were a generic character and so you shared with us some possible algorithms (action) and you're wondering how she will respond. My guess: she'll try to mess with your head like she has already messed your head. Seriously, I think you ought to be very skeptical and a bit cautious about this woman--that's the reaction that I'm missing. Instead, you're treating her weird mixed signals game and her quick label of you as "shy" as nothing. BTW: you still have not answered my question. Was calling you "shy" an insult from her? Why not? Seems a clear insult. There is no way it was a neutral comment. And why would she say this when you've invited her over and you're making out with her? What does "shy" have to do with anything? I think you're still ducking and dodging her nuttiness and the insult. How in the world was that not intended to EFF with you? If she likes a different type of person, she should stop seeing you. But don't throw out such a label. So despite what you say, I think she did mess with your head and one reason you're wondering about her possible reaction is that you're still feeling the sting of that "shy" label.
Author racquetbro Posted December 25, 2021 Author Posted December 25, 2021 10 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said: Bad, ill-fitting analogy. At a party, you aren't trying to enter into a relationship with the vegetarian. And it's OK to compromise there because parties are about compromise ... That's not the point of the analogy, but I don't want to get stuck on this point because I'd rather respond to the rest of your message, which is more interesting. 10 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said: My guess: she'll try to mess with your head like she has already messed your head. Seriously, I think you ought to be very skeptical and a bit cautious about this woman--that's the reaction that I'm missing. Instead, you're treating her weird mixed signals game and her quick label of you as "shy" as nothing. You're right, I am treating it effectively as nothing. Perhaps I need to rethink that. 10 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said: BTW: you still have not answered my question. It wasn't a dodge.. I don't recall you asking previously. So I'll make sure to answer you here. 10 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said: Was calling you "shy" an insult from her? Why not? Seems a clear insult. There is no way it was a neutral comment. And why would she say this when you've invited her over and you're making out with her? What does "shy" have to do with anything? I think you're still ducking and dodging her nuttiness and the insult. Hmm.. that's interesting. I felt misjudged by it, but I didn't think she intended it as an insult. I'm sure that's probably not clear, so let me try to clarify. I believe she was communicating it as a neutral bit of information, like "you're shy, and I'm just not into that sort of thing". Analogy time again. I'm 6'2". If she told me "I really like you, but I'm not into short guys.. I really want someone that's at least 5'10"", I would initially be very confused. "Umm.. what? My height exceeds your requirements." So there's two possibilities here. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt. She isn't "perceiving me" properly.. somehow, she thinks I'm shorter than I am, so my reaction is to prove my actual height. Because if it's a simple misunderstanding of perception, then theoretically it should be easily fixed. The other possibility is the direction you're going. She doesn't think I'm short, she's just being insulting for some other reason. In this case, there could be lots of reasons. I don't particularly care what it is, because as you said, it's a head game.. so that knowledge would be enough for me to call it quits. Not having known her for very long, I'm not sure which it is, and I'm open to either possibility. So I guess we'll see.
chillii Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 (edited) Why , if she said at least 5. 10 Well your at least 5.10 and even better. PS, This women's really starting to sound of not a nice character. There should be no doubt anything she says at this stage is of the best of intentions if she's keen on you and you certainly wouldn't be worrying about friend zones. lf she was throwing even any bs at all around this soon l'd be out the door. Edited December 25, 2021 by chillii
elaine567 Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 5 hours ago, racquetbro said: 'm 6'2". If she told me "I really like you, but I'm not into short guys.. I really want someone that's at least 5'10"", I would initially be very confused. "Umm.. what? My height exceeds your requirements." Could it have been an attempt at a joke and not mean to be taken literally? At 6'2 you are obviously tall... there is no mistaking guys who are over 6'. Same with the shy thing, she may think you are anything but shy and it was an attempt at dead pan humour.
Wiseman2 Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 On 12/23/2021 at 9:32 AM, racquetbro said: I would do other things that she would physically stop me from doing. Ok, slow your roll. Although if ovulation and menses are not good times, you'll have to figure something out. No condoms in the house? It's unclear if you are overanalyzing or if she's indeed playing head games. She seems to have mixed feelings. Is there a recent ex or on/off BF? Are you exclusive? If not she may be attracted but doesn't want to play musical beds.
Alpacalia Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 (edited) There are quite a few mixed signals. Mixed signals often result from some internal conflict going on. Your interests in finding the same things are similar. At the moment, neither of you is certain whether they are with each other or not since there's no telling whether the relationship will last a few months, a few years, or just a few weeks. It seems as if you're striking a balance between her interest and attraction for you, as well as a desire to keep you at bay. Like she’s saying, "I'm still trying to figure things out before having sex with you." The challenge is that it's not obvious which of the two she is more strongly implying. Sometimes that happens. If she strongly desires you as a lover, it is possible that she is trying to feel comfortable with you (because for reasons this either takes time for her, or specifically around you). Edited December 25, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator language 1
Author racquetbro Posted December 25, 2021 Author Posted December 25, 2021 3 hours ago, elaine567 said: Could it have been an attempt at a joke and not mean to be taken literally? At 6'2 you are obviously tall... there is no mistaking guys who are over 6'. Same with the shy thing, she may think you are anything but shy and it was an attempt at dead pan humour. I don't think so. She mentioned prior to this that she thought I was shy. I am very reserved when I first meet someone, and that's on purpose, and it can come across as being shy, and I'm aware of that. My first instinct after that event last weekend, despite it not "completing" was to jokingly say something like "well, at least you don't think I'm shy anymore", because I would be surprised if anyone thought that at that point. I didn't actually say that, because something did seem a bit off about the whole thing. The next evening when we went out, we had a conversation about it (initiated by me), and that's where she said that she thought I came across as shy, and it didn't sound like a joke. As others have mentioned, there's a good chance I'm overanalyzing this, and I shouldn't have even bothered saying anything to her (that talking about it may have just made it worse, because she did say during our conversation, "I wasn't planning to say anything, but since you want to talk about it..."). I'm forth-coming when it comes to identifying and resolving budding problems. I like relationships as close to 100% as possible. I don't wait for the quality of a relationship to diminish to 20% and then say "Oh, looks like there might be a problem".. if it feels like it's at 90%, then there's something that might be lingering that needs to be addressed before it turns into a big problem, so I'll address it. I know this can seem exhausting for people that are in relationships with me, I'm high energy, so it's not an issue on my end. But I understand that it would turn off a lot of people. It also tends to diminish over time as lengthier successful relationships get more comfortable and there are fewer issues that creep in over time.
Author racquetbro Posted December 25, 2021 Author Posted December 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said: Ok, slow your roll. Although if ovulation and menses are not good times, you'll have to figure something out. No condoms in the house? Yes, but she declined, not wanting to take the chance in case of a condom mishap (which I can understand, and I'm fine with that). She's generally very cautious (she's taken several Covid tests since I've known her, just to make sure), so her explanation is totally plausible and in her character as far as I can tell. 2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said: She seems to have mixed feelings. Is there a recent ex or on/off BF? No.. my last long-term relationship ended nearly a year ago, and hers was longer ago than that. 2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said: Are you exclusive? If not she may be attracted but doesn't want to play musical beds. Yes, we're exclusive.
Author racquetbro Posted December 25, 2021 Author Posted December 25, 2021 There have been some new developments since I posted my OP. We're planning to get together on Monday (our soonest mutual availabilities with the holidays). I'm a single father of a 19-month-old son from a previous marriage, and I don't have any coverage for him until January, so I can't go out (her and I have agreed that at this point, she won't meet my son.. I don't introduce him to anyone I'm dating until it seems likely that it's a long-term relationship, which means I haven't introduced him to anyone I've dated). So the only option we have for seeing each other is for her to com to my house and hang out after he goes to sleep, at about 8:30pm. She's not a night owl, so by 10pm she's tired and will have to leave, which doesn't give us much time together. I found a sitter for my son, which would allow us to go out and have dinner around 5pm, then spend a few hours together. It would also mean that we're meeting in a more neutral setting (i.e. not my house). I got everything lined up and let her know, and her response was "Either way is fine with me, but if you still want to meet at your house instead, I promise I won't be tired." Our interaction over the last few days has gotten back to where it was prior to this as well. So that "step backwards" seems to have been short-lived.
Girl Fade Away Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 (edited) A bit of a different take (as per my usual) and meant as only another possibility to consider but.... Since it's been said and written pretty much ad nauseum that men's desire for as much sex as possible is to "spread their seed," her ovulating comment may have been used as a strategy to turn you on and behave more aggressively with her. To get you thinking about the 'idea' of impregnating her, since she was ovulating. It's possible it may not have even been true. Different from having her period, which is actually the opposite and can also be quite messy. I don't think she told you that you were shy as a joke. She may have hoped you would use that as an opportunity to show her (prove to her) how NOT shy you are. NOT that you should've done anything different from what you did by respecting her "no," it can be a very slippery slope when receiving these types of mixed messages. Tbh, the girl sounds manipulative, proceed with caution and stay aware. JMO, again something to consider. Good luck. Edited December 25, 2021 by Girl Fade Away 1
elaine567 Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 Few single women see ovulation and the prospect of pregnancy as chance to turn a guy on and to give him the green light to have sex with her anyway. Most single women are petrified of getting pregnant... As she is the cautious type, she simply did not want to take any risks... 1
Girl Fade Away Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Few single women see ovulation and the prospect of pregnancy as chance to turn a guy on and to give him the green light to have sex with her anyway. Most single women are petrified of getting pregnant... As she is the cautious type, she simply did not want to take any risks... I did not say she was wanting to get pregnant, again it's possible it wasn't even true and said hoping to turn him on as for some men the 'idea' of impregnating a woman can be a true on. The whole "spread their seed" thing which I've heard from so many men even on this forum, I've lost count. I only say that as her other words and behavior indicate she prefers men who are more aggressive and dominant. Never underestimate the power of manipulation. And again, only another possibility to consider. And to stay aware. That's all. Edited December 25, 2021 by Girl Fade Away
Author racquetbro Posted December 25, 2021 Author Posted December 25, 2021 14 minutes ago, Girl Fade Away said: A bit of a different take (as per my usual) and meant as only another possibility to consider but.... Since it's been said and written pretty much ad nauseum that men's desire for as much sex as possible is to "spread their seed," her ovulating comment may have been used as a strategy to turn you on and behave more aggressively with her. To get you thinking about the 'idea' of impregnating her, since she was ovulating. It's possible it may not have even been true. It's possible. And I am familiar with the cycle (I was married for awhile, so there was no such thing as TMI ). The reason I think it's true is because I know she told me that she was on her period 1-2 weeks prior (I don't recall the exact timing, but schedule-wise it fits), and earlier in the evening she said that she suspected she was ovulating and pulled out her phone app that she uses to track it to verify. So I believe her. 16 minutes ago, Girl Fade Away said: I don't think she told you that you were shy as a joke. She may have hoped you would use that as an opportunity to show her (prove to her) how NOT shy you are. NOT that you should've done anything different from what you did by respecting her "no," it can be a very slippery slope when receiving these types of mixed messages. That could be, though she didn't say it at the time, she said it the next day. So it wouldn't have had any impact in the moment. But perhaps it was intended as a "for next time" suggestion. I certainly won't disrespect her "no", though it does give me an idea of where she's at in the future when there is no "no". 19 minutes ago, Girl Fade Away said: Tbh, the girl sounds manipulative, proceed with caution and stay aware. JMO, again something to consider. Good luck. Thanks again!
Author racquetbro Posted December 25, 2021 Author Posted December 25, 2021 8 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Few single women see ovulation and the prospect of pregnancy as chance to turn a guy on and to give him the green light to have sex with her anyway. Most single women are petrified of getting pregnant... As she is the cautious type, she simply did not want to take any risks... Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is the case. While putting out the full disclaimer that we've only been dating a few weeks and pregnancy would be very bad at this point.. just to totally put this in perspective, if she told me that she was pregnant, I'd be more excited than she would be. Again, that doesn't mean I'd be happy about it, but in relative terms her take vs. mine. 1
Girl Fade Away Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, racquetbro said: The reason I think it's true is because I know she told me that she was on her period 1-2 weeks prior (I don't recall the exact timing, but schedule-wise it fits), and earlier in the evening she said that she suspected she was ovulating and pulled out her phone app that she uses to track it to verify it. That is A LOT of unnecessary (imo) information for her to be sharing geez! The timing of her menstrual cycle, when she is or isn't ovulating are not typical topics of conversation a woman shares so early in (a few weeks?) before even having sex. If she's not ready for PIV sex, just say that. Something is definitely off about it imo, but will leave to you to navigate and again wish you luck. Edited December 25, 2021 by Girl Fade Away 1
Girl Fade Away Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 1 hour ago, racquetbro said: just to totally put this in perspective, if she told me that she was pregnant, I'd be more excited than she would be. Going back to what I posted about men "spreading their seed," not at all surprised by this^^. Was/is birth control not an option? Seems odd that a young sexually active woman would NOT be on some sort of birth control? Again something sounds off to me, but hope I'm wrong and it all works out. 1
Lotsgoingon Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 Dude, if you turned in this story to HBO for a show or the start of the show, the executives would send you a note back saying the plot is way too messy and confusing, the characters' motives aren't clear, the audience will be confused and even if they weren't confused, it's not clear that anything interesting is going on here. Back to real life, I've been on dates with narcissists, drug addicts (didn't figure out til later) and all kinds of weird characters who were more clear than this woman--and I came away more clear than you. Whenever I had as many conflicted and mixed feelings and reactions as you have here, things NEVER went anywhere--and thank God they didn't. This level of thinking means the relationship is a big red flag.
Poutrew Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 When a girl is handing out such a plethora of mixed signals as this one seems to be, the answer could be that she is trying to balance more than one BF - could it be she wants you for the home cooked meals, and someone else to scratch her itchy spots?
chillii Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Girl Fade Away said: Going back to what I posted about men "spreading their seed," not at all surprised by this^^. Was/is birth control not an option? Seems odd that a young sexually active woman would NOT be on some sort of birth control? Again something sounds off to me, but hope I'm wrong and it all works out. The seed thing is such bs, believe me,that's the last thing on his mind not even deep deep deeply subconsciously. Matter of fact that's the one thing might stop you bc the last thing you'll want is an unwanted pregnancy, not even subconsciously. Shear horniness pure and simple. There's a lot of very hot women out there all showing it off, you would not believe how hard it is for some to walk straight past that or stop or to stick to just one. Or if you feel that way about the one your with , to not feel it all the time especially early in . Edited December 25, 2021 by chillii 1 1
Girl Fade Away Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, chillii said: The seed thing is such bs.. Lol, thank you! I always thought so too but after listening to at least half dozen men on this forum and others preaching about its validity, I began thinking there might be something to it! But yeah it never made much sense to me either and I have asked this question several times on various forums. I found the OP's comment that he would be excited (or be more excited than his gf) if she became pregnant interesting though. As if to suggest the "idea" of it, that it might be possible, was exciting and a turn on. Anyway, if she were so concerned about not getting pregnant, why wasn't she on birth control? The pill for example, safely stops ovulation when taken daily as directed. I dunno something sounds off. Edited December 25, 2021 by Girl Fade Away 1
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