Revisiting compersion

December 20, 2021

17 minutes ago, lana-banana said:

This sounds like a lot of words in an attempt to justify unfaithfulness.

Plenty of people are happy being monogamous. You do not need to settle for someone who won't be.

absolutely...and the solution is so twisted and convoluted in that it comes from the mind of someone who is set to: distrustful

and hyper alert to cheating and flirting with others...I just honestly don't think this is the solution for you, OP. Maybe others, if it suits their lifestyle, but not you.

You seem to be coming up with a solution that runs against every grain of your being in order to still have a relationship. It seems like you are setting yourself up for great disappointment and internal turmoil.

The bolded is true and if you are set where jealousy is more of your norm, absolutely seek the monogamous type.

December 20, 2021

28 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I believe monogamy is a choice. And I would say that honoring that choice comes easier to some than others.

Anyway, why are you pitching this as "men cheat"? There are plenty of women who cheat. And where is your evidence that "all hubbies go cold"? Have a read here and you'll find plenty of men who are unhappy with the lack of affection from their wives.

Honestly, this sounds like a whole lot of assumption which has been stitched together to suit your narrative.

My feelings are based on experience. I understand that the institution of marriage is a long standing one and any kind of challenge to the nature of it is going to get some pushback. But honestly Ive looked at it from both sides and when I hold to monogamy, Im left in a state of fear.

Fear both that I'll never find a man who will see me as the end all be all to his desires and dreams and fear that if I think I've found that man, that I'm putting so much pressure on him and myself to be that person for the rest of our lives that it will drive a wedge between us.

Sometimes when I put myself in a man's shoes, I can understand why he might want to explore.

When I accept the idea that a man may be drawn to cheat and that it's not the end of the world, that a man being attracted to another woman or even sleeping with another woman isnt necessarily bad, I feel like a relationship might be possible for me.

I guess its sort of like the saying about how if you love someone let them go and they'll come back if its real.

Also, I think the diamond is a bad rock. Its caused a lot of drama in my opinion.

Edited December 20, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

December 20, 2021

9 hours ago, Classicfiction said:

Guys, if you were allowed to be with other women would you stay loyal to the woman who accepted it? And would you be ok with her having other partners as well?

A woman proposed this idea to me,

I even posted about it here- it was only a month or two before I met my present gf,

I mean the temptation was there- this lady was very good looking and ten years younger, and there is a certain attractiveness about no proper commitment

I am happy nothing came of it though, ultimately the lady I met since is very genuine and will always have my back.

I sensed beneath her fun and games she was ruthless though and no doubt would have screwed me over. (lady from early 2019)

December 20, 2021

4 minutes ago, Foxhall said:

A woman proposed this idea to me,

I even posted about it here- it was only a month or two before I met my present gf,

I mean the temptation was there- this lady was very good looking and ten years younger, and there is a certain attractiveness about no proper commitment

I am happy nothing came of it though, ultimately the lady I met since is very genuine and will always have my back.

I sensed beneath her fun and games she was ruthless though and no doubt would have screwed me over. (lady from early 2019)

Yes, I remember.. thats actually why I started considering it. Do you feel that this current gf is the last woman you want to be with for the rest of your life? Can we ever actually know? Life is so fluid and things change so easily.

As someone who has been extremely hurt by rejection in the past, I just wonder if I stop holding out for this perfect person and stop trying to be perfect myself, maybe it will help.

I'm really sensitive. I know immediately when a man has another woman on his mind. I'd rather just look at that as nature being nature...

December 20, 2021

Seems like you are trying to avoid heart ache, but you will still be heart broken when that special someone treats you like a run of the mill member of his harem...

December 20, 2021

1 hour ago, Classicfiction said:

Are humans naturally monogamous though?

What is Song of Songs about you know what I mean. Idk... Ive been thinking along the lines of what would happen if men were allowed to flex the hunting muscle and go out and conquer then come back home. What if women could be with other women without a sense of shame and a fling every now and then when the hubby has gone cold. Because all hubbies do and its just silly to state otherwise.

Could it actually protect the children?

Do you see what Im saying? If a man is in a marriage and he is bored with his wife but at the same time being held to a no cheating or else standard, that is some repressed energy that can be dangerous.

That's a lot of big words @Uruktopi, but how do you FEEL as a man? Maybe Im moving from distrust to empathy.

To begin with...

"That's a lot of big words @Uruktopi, but how do you FEEL as a man? ."

For most of my soon to have 71 years, I´ve felt as I think and thought as I feel, as a man. Not necessarily the stereotype of man in your mind naturalized as if haves a validity scope wider than your own worldview.

Also and for most of my soon to have 71 years, I´ve practiced my said feelings and thoughts in my everyday life. So yes, also words here, but not bigger ones than the smiles and tears as results of living my way.

I do not naturalize monogamy, don´t make it a normative "moral" standard. But I neither share your assumptions and arguments naturalizing the opposite.

I don´t think that everyone should think and feel as I do: It haves some painful costs.

Anyhow, I would choose and once more such wounds and scars as the price of loving as I conceive love, rather than living what (just and only IMO) is an emotional fraud, for the sake of "peace" and protecting myself from risk and "negative" feelings.

With all my respect, best wishes.

December 20, 2021

35 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

absolutely...and the solution is so twisted and convoluted in that it comes from the mind of someone who is set to: distrustful

and hyper alert to cheating and flirting with others...I just honestly don't think this is the solution for you, OP. Maybe others, if it suits their lifestyle, but not you.

You seem to be coming up with a solution that runs against every grain of your being in order to still have a relationship. It seems like you are setting yourself up for great disappointment and internal turmoil.

The bolded is true and if you are set where jealousy is more of your norm, absolutely seek the monogamous type.

Isnt the entire institution of marriage coming from the standpoint of distrust? If people trusted each other there wouldnt be such a giant showy production of it. It would just be quietly understood... Maybe he moves into your teepee and ties a reed around your finger. Maybe that reed falls off after a week and its floating away in the river is of no emotional significance... I dont think Im twisting things, Im considering another way of thinking.

I can see this, guys a lot of times are drawn to more than one woman. Lots of women fantasize about other women. Both are often shoving these urges back to their subconscious and denying it. Im not making blanket statements here, Im saying these things happen enough to be considered.

December 20, 2021

5 minutes ago, Uruktopi said:

I don´t think that everyone should think and feel as I do: It haves some painful costs.

I agree with you.

December 20, 2021

23 minutes ago, Classicfiction said:

Do you feel that this current gf is the last woman you want to be with for the rest of your life?

good question,

I am probably a flawed enough character at the end of the day,

have also mentioned a few times here- the girl from 2014-

even if do marry the current gf- that will be always at the back of my mind somewhere,

Yet this current gf actually cares about me- thats a funny statement I suppose- (its similar to our well known poster on this forum something he would say)

Yes I think on that basis there is a fair chance at least that we will marry-

Yet as I say I am flawed- as you mention above -guys are drawn to other women,

I dont know Id hope that if we marry that I will be able to stay loyal and not cheat ,

she would be very hurt I think if I cheated on her- so that would motivate me to stay loyal- I would not want to upset her

then as you also mention- things and feelings change- you just dont know

December 20, 2021

25 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Seems like you are trying to avoid heart ache, but you will still be heart broken when that special someone treats you like a run of the mill member of his harem...

I dont want to be part of a harem. Im just saying, if Im with a guy and he is showing signs of boredom or annoyance for an extended period of time, why not just let him alone and be open to someone else showing interest/affection if that happens?

If someone else is still there for you with some form of comfort, then you can more easily give your man the space he needs.

December 21, 2021

I would say try it out. But not because you want to avoid the pain of heartbreak, but because you want to be completely honest and open with your partner.

Some of the best irl relationships I know have some form of non-monogamy. They all have different boundaries, but the main thing is there is trust and communication.

But this is not a way to try and keep a man. Honestly with all my experience, men want a women who they feel completely comfortable around, who they can tell everything without being shamed. Who will respect them and protect their heart.

Good luck friend.

December 21, 2021

11 hours ago, Classicfiction said:

Ok so I've always been one to value loyalty... until recently, Ive been very rigid in my opinion of longterm relationships. That there should be absolutely no straying, no flirtations outside the relationship etc...

My solution was to date older men, but I honestly dont know that that would necessarily solve the problem of preventing jealousy. So I'm starting to realize that a no cheating policy in relationships does seem counterintuitive in a lot of ways.

I mean.. I believe men are not monogamous by nature. Instinctually men want to hunt and have variety. Its just kinda obvious that guys are like this. Look at all of the online forums with all the pain over cheating.

So what if women could accept that men are naturally and instinctually driven to hunt and allow for a man to cheat.... and at the same time seek affection elsewhere when the man goes distant?

What if people could do this and not feel shame over it?

Basically, Im looking at all my failed relationships where the guy cheated and I was strictly not tolerant of it at all..

If people became more open in such a sense would it help with the pain of heartbreak?

Also, do you think that allowing for openess in a relationship would affect the longevity of the relationship?

Guys, if you were allowed to be with other women would you stay loyal to the woman who accepted it? And would you be ok with her having other partners as well?

It’s not just men. Women are like that too!

Personally in my limited experience, I wouldn’t use compersion as an excuse to put up with bad behaviour and forgive a cheater (as an example: your relationship where you were cheated on). That wouldn’t be the time I would use it.

Polyamory and Non monogamy require a high level of respect, trust and communication. With practice, Compersion is a byproduct of that, and in turn becomes a tool (in my experience).

Compersion has to come with excellent transparent communication from both/all. As you know, it aided me but I honestly think that was just lucky that my brain took the route it did, towards future unfounded jealousy and insecurity. It doesn’t mean you never feel insecure or jealous again , but you know how to deal with it.

That doesn’t mean rolling over for someone who went behind your back. That’s unethical.

There is a big difference between ethical and unethical non monogamy. By the very nature you refer to it as “cheating” that makes it unethical. “No cheating” is a GOOD policy to have in any relationship.
In the bigger picture - People cheat when the communication breaks down. If they communicated without fear then they would have told their partner they weren’t getting what they wanted. Usually sex related and the relationship would have taken it from there.

Whether or not I would enter into a poly relationship/situation of some sort again depends entirely on the person and circumstances. I’m really not leaning towards it, but I know I can never say never, because it happened. I can’t see anything romantically lasting coming out of it tho.
At the same time I also know that sometimes you just meet someone who you want/are capable to give all your love indefinitely, and you want all of theirs. No sharing. That happened too. Both failed but hey I’m still here. Still growing and learning

In a dying marriage, I imagine the practice of open and honest communication would probably be very helpful, and compersion and some sort of non monogamy situation might come from that, or the communication might melt away the resentment and fix the marriage…the resentment really kills everything tho. Very hard to come back from that.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Fox Sake
Autocorrect and grimmer

December 21, 2021

@Fox Sake yes huge difference between unethical and ethical non monogamy.

December 21, 2021

1 hour ago, Classicfiction said:

Isnt the entire institution of marriage coming from the standpoint of distrust? If people trusted each other there wouldnt be such a giant showy production of it. It would just be quietly understood... Maybe he moves into your teepee and ties a reed around your finger. Maybe that reed falls off after a week and its floating away in the river is of no emotional significance... I dont think Im twisting things, Im considering another way of thinking.

I can see this, guys a lot of times are drawn to more than one woman. Lots of women fantasize about other women. Both are often shoving these urges back to their subconscious and denying it. Im not making blanket statements here, Im saying these things happen enough to be considered.

I honestly haven't pondered it to the extent that you have so I can't really answer in a super deep or extremely thoughtful way, ie haven't considered many sides of the argument. I just personally don't see it like that. It's sort of a negative bias, no? I do think you would do well to check your belief system. It's like you have conformation bias--you will find what you look for and maybe choose people who are not capable of being monogamous or lean toward not being that way and intend to act on it at some point.

I would actually see marriage as being based on trust and coming from that point of view. See you are kinda pushed toward the negative and distrust side of the spectrum. Who would think getting into a marriage is a "bad" thing or a way to keep someone honest? It may be a byproduct that people stay honest by choice. One presumes in western society though that the majority of marriages are a choice...and a happy choice (at least start out that way). Not all people do a big showy production of it and what is wrong with people that do? You can't hate on every part of it just cause it's not working out for you that way. A teepee and a reed sort of thing work just fine for some people too.

I'd say both men and women probably find some element of being committed to just one person either tedious or difficult at certain points but stay committed because that's more important to them. I really think the commitment a person makes is really to themselves (vs being tied down to someone else or contained by someone else-perhaps if you are looking at it as some sort of noose it's never going to be attractive or a choice that you see someone WANTING to make). It's a choice and people align their subsequent actions with that choice. I think some women inspire men to want to make this choice (and vice versa) and some aren't inspiring in that way. If your belief system isn't fully into it or self esteem is low or distrust high, all of those things will be barriers to inspiring people to see value in committing to you wholeheartedly.

Agree with the bolded however, I think you are really making a plan for the WORST rather than figuring out a plan for the best--choosing and seeking a relationship where commitment is warranted and wanted by both. I don't think allowing an open relationship when you are already highly distrustful and a bit negative is going to make things better, or even give you better choice men. The premise alone sells yourself short and that's why you are getting LESS than.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Versacehottie

December 21, 2021

2 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

I honestly haven't pondered it to the extent that you have so I can't really answer in a super deep or extremely thoughtful way, ie haven't considered many sides of the argument. I just personally don't see it like that. It's sort of a negative bias, no? I do think you would do well to check your belief system. It's like you have conformation bias--you will find what you look for and maybe choose people who are not capable of being monogamous or lean toward not being that way and intend to act on it at some point.

I would actually see marriage as being based on trust and coming from that point of view. See you are kinda pushed toward the negative and distrust side of the spectrum. Who would think getting into a marriage is a "bad" thing or a way to keep someone honest? It may be a byproduct that people stay honest by choice. One presumes in western society though that the majority of marriages are a choice...and a happy choice (at least start out that way). Not all people do a big showy production of it and what is wrong with people that do? You can't hate on every part of it just cause it's not working out for you that way. A teepee and a reed sort of thing work just fine for some people too.

I'd say both men and women probably find some element of being committed to just one person either tedious or difficult at certain points but stay committed because that's more important to them. I really think the commitment a person makes is really to themselves (vs being tied down to someone else or contained by someone else-perhaps if you are looking at it as some sort of noose it's never going to be attractive or a choice that you see someone WANTING to make). It's a choice and people align their subsequent actions with that choice. I think some women inspire men to want to make this choice (and vice versa) and some aren't inspiring in that way. If your belief system isn't fully into it or self esteem is low or distrust high, all of those things will be barriers to inspiring people to see value in committing to you wholeheartedly.

Agree with the bolded however, I think you are really making a plan for the WORST rather than figuring out a plan for the best--choosing and seeking a relationship where commitment is warranted and wanted by both. I don't think allowing an open relationship when you are already highly distrustful and a bit negative is going to make things better, or even give you better choice men. The premise alone sells yourself short and that's why you are getting LESS than.

People lose their passion for one another over time.. it just happens. The strongest of marriages I know are often times sexless and have periods of cold shouldering. Those who remain loyal without resentment are rare.

Really, is it negative to think hey, the honeymoon phase will wear off at some point. Even if the guy is my best friend he'll face temptation. Do I want to keep walking away from each man that cheats or do I want to forgive a man at some point?

Because from my perspective it is going to be like a needle in a haystack to find this 100% loyal man. Yes some of you pop up on here and talk about your loyalty, but I sure am not meeting you in real life! Lol. So I keep walking away from each one who isnt capable of perfect loyalty and its not getting me anywhere.

I want to be ok with a flawed man who is also ok with a flawed woman. And I dont think its negative.

Here is the thing as far as my self esteem, confidence etc. I am who I am at this point and if Im not centered in perfect self confidence, then Im not. But to get to that place may take the rest of my life, and I dont want to just give up on having any kind of relationship at all until Im "there."

I just cant do perfection anymore. People cheat.

December 21, 2021

At risk of repeating myself, I say:

I have no objection to the various ways people choose to arrange their emotional lifes.

That said, most of what each choice adopt as a pretended thorethical support, from individual experiences to "common-sense-as-we-all-know" and from "positive psichology" (coopting pan budhist views) to pseudo scientific prose..........bore me to tears.

Each path haves some attractive promisses and entail some costs that people trade for what they value and choose.

And each one hopes to get to where the choosen road is supposed to lead.

I choose the emotional frame that fits me. Had some epic defeats and paid the piper. And I persist in what I feel is worth to live for.

By my side, that´s all folks.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Uruktopi

December 21, 2021

15 minutes ago, Classicfiction said:

Do I want to keep walking away from each man that cheats or do I want to forgive a man at some point?

I felt that way when I learn my ex was cheating on me. I was wondering if I was the odd one for expecting loyalty. What if we had an open relationship, could I keep his love then, so many questions with no answers. Then I remembered all those times he was coming home smelling cologne, what if I had known then he had been with other women, how would that make me feel. What if he meets one of those women regularly and falls for her. Opening the relationship is a go-ahead for him to fall for someone else. We like to say that for men it's just sex...but is it really.

December 21, 2021

21 minutes ago, Classicfiction said:

People lose their passion for one another over time.. it just happens. The strongest of marriages I know are often times sexless and have periods of cold shouldering. Those who remain loyal without resentment are rare.

Really, is it negative to think hey, the honeymoon phase will wear off at some point. Even if the guy is my best friend he'll face temptation. Do I want to keep walking away from each man that cheats or do I want to forgive a man at some point?

Because from my perspective it is going to be like a needle in a haystack to find this 100% loyal man. Yes some of you pop up on here and talk about your loyalty, but I sure am not meeting you in real life! Lol. So I keep walking away from each one who isnt capable of perfect loyalty and its not getting me anywhere.

I want to be ok with a flawed man who is also ok with a flawed woman. And I dont think its negative.

Here is the thing as far as my self esteem, confidence etc. I am who I am at this point and if Im not centered in perfect self confidence, then Im not. But to get to that place may take the rest of my life, and I dont want to just give up on having any kind of relationship at all until Im "there."

I just cant do perfection anymore. People cheat.

Lol I can't debate this with you really as I have nothing to offer when this is your mindset. We live on different planets Said with love and trying to understand where you are coming from.

All I can say is that when you make choices out of fear or negativity, like running from something or coming up with a bandaid solution for something you find hopeless, it usually doesn't seem to end well. I'm sure there's research on that but I can't quote any right now. I think as people, especially in romantic or interpersonal relationships, we do better when we are running TOWARD something, like it's something we want and see hope and good things in it. it's the base when things get hard or just even minorly annoying. Lol I appreciate reality....though your version just might not be a world I see or experience. Lol i don't want to live in that world...different planets

Good luck

December 21, 2021

1 minute ago, Gaeta said:

We like to say that for men it's just sex...but is it really.

For some men AND women it´s JUST sex.

For some others it´s JUST peaceful family love with sex but (like with batteries) passion not includded.

For some of us sex whith the one you love AND you are in love with can´t be JUST something else.

December 21, 2021

@ClassicfictionI am a bit confused why you used the word "compersion," what you are describing is being okay and happy in a open, non-monogamous or polyamorous relationship with your partner wherein there are no feelings of jealousy.

I just checked the definition of compersion and it stated this:

The word compersion is loosely defined as the opposite of jealousy. Instead of feeling upset or threatened when your partner romantically or sexually interacts with another person, you feel a sense of happiness for them.

So by compersion, you are actually talking about feeling HAPPY for a man (your boyfriend, partner) that he chose to engage in sexual relations with another woman? I mean it's one thing to have an open relationship and to discuss that honestly with your significant other and to feel no jealousy, but to actually be happy that they're having great sex with another person? That you feel joyous about it? You are happy for them?

That is an entirely different ball of wax and I think it takes an enormously enlightened person to feel that way. Not just secure, but enlightened. Like having a sense of spiritual revelation of truth or something extraordinary like that. I cannot imagine it myself quite frankly.

Realistically, that would be quite a leap for you, don't you think? To go from distrusting a man, fearful of him "cheating" which is dishonest and deceitful to actually being HAPPY for him that he just had sex with another woman? I'm sorry, I find that hard to believe.

Through the years I have experimented with all sorts of styles - multi-dating, open relationships, polyamorous relationships, BDSM you name it, I have experimented with it with various boyfriends. After all that, I am back to being who I always was - a one-at-a-time dater, monogamous, and very much commitment-oriented in the traditional sense of the word.

That's not to say I don't still enjoy a bit of kink sexually but that's besides the point, lol. I am basically a traditionalist. One man at a time. And for him, one woman at a time -- me!

So my suggestion to you would be try non-monogamy first, see how it feels. Try it on. You don't have to be happy for your partner, again that would be quite a big leap, but experiment with accepting non-monogamy first.

See how it feels and go from there.

EDIT: And please stop calling it "cheating." Cheating is dishonest and deceitful. In an open, non-monogamous relationship there is none of that, everything is all out in the open, NO dishonesty, no deceit, no cheating.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Girl Fade Away

December 21, 2021

If all the men you have dated have cheated on you, what makes you think they will stay with you, if you give them the green light to see other women or you turn a blind eye to them cheating,
You seem to think you would control the narrative.
You forgive them and they stick around.
Maybe not.
You forgive them, they leave anyway as you are not who they really want.

If every man you have a relationship with is apparently looking for others then you need to consider something may be missing in your relationships or you are somehow attracted to disloyal men.
Giving them free rein to meet others will likely still leave you man-less and alone, when they leave to find the woman/women they really want.

December 21, 2021

23 hours ago, Alpaca said:

In 5,000 species of mammals (including humans), 3 to 5 percent form lifelong, monogamous bonds.

https://www.livescience.com/32146-are-humans-meant-to-be-monogamous.html

Eek.

Do we really think humans are amongst the monogamous species? Lol

I mean look at us! All these forums and heartache. The giant exploding industry of porn. Wtf

December 21, 2021

10 minutes ago, Classicfiction said:

Do we really think humans are amongst the monogamous species? Lol

I mean look at us! All these forums and heartache. The giant exploding industry of porn. Wtf

Not according to these guys

You are right that it only seems that way due to the fact that most posts are when people are looking for guidance or a solution to a problem.

Most of what you hear is bad news. Hey, guess what? Someone in Idaho who lived in poverty her entire life just won the lottery but she's not coming here and posting about it.

Let's clear something up though: most likely you were not cheated on because men aren’t wired for monogamy.

Cheating is fairly common. No doubt. But are you of the opinion that every relationship involves cheating?

December 21, 2021

On 12/20/2021 at 7:51 AM, Classicfiction said:

Basically, Im looking at all my failed relationships where the guy cheated and I was strictly not tolerant of it at all.. If people became more open in such a sense would it help with the pain of heartbreak?

It's important to reflect on your motivation for open relationships.

Betrayal and hurt can come in all forms. What you can do is keep this less exclusive such as FWB, if you wish to have your freedom.

However, polyamory and open relationships are not a panacea for being cheated on, betrayal or getting hurt.

It may be better to understand why you feel this way and try not to use it as a shield against pain.

December 21, 2021

1 hour ago, Classicfiction said:

On 12/20/2021 at 10:05 AM, Alpaca said:

Do we really think humans are amongst the monogamous species? Lol

As also a researcher I´m familiarized with seriuosly considering the material basis of the world arround.

Even so, the human species have some singularities also social / historical ones and a tradition of rebellion against it´s own constraints.

We are not specially "made" to have habitat in a certain enviroment / conditions, remain tied to our own historical stages and neither to live "inmerse" in a fixed behaviour.

As we are somehow "generalists" we have some more of what in Science are called potential "degrees of freedom".

So, we are not built in monogamous creatures BUT (and that is the surprize) not all but a lot of us choose and live monogamous AND loyals to our choice.

AND, perhaps you should get to know about, there is a new thing....called "being in love".

I knew it on first hand, you know...

It´s interesting.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Uruktopi

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