got friend zoned after 4 dates

[green48175]

Age 34 here. I went on 4 dates with this girl from from October to early November from an online dating app. No not Tinder LOL. We got along great initially, and she said she had a great time. We have lots in common, lots of similar fundamental values according to her, and I feel she respects my career greatly. We talked for hours, and basically stayed as long as possible on the 1st date even though we only had 1 drink each and she had to be up early the next day. All in all, It seemed like her interest level was relatively high at the very least. 

However, I was having some health issues and had trouble sleeping for many months, and noticed I started looking a bit more tired and worn down during this time. Especially in brighter lighting I really wasn't looking my best self, and coincidentally enough after the second date I noticed her interest level dropped. I feel like was a bit of a two face at the time tbh LOL.

On the 4th date we made out but didn't hookup, and finally after date #4, a few days later we had a talk, and she said she loved chatting with me and hanging out but didn't want to go the relationship/dating route. Ouch. But she actually legit still wanted to hang out, but I politely declined as I was looking for more of course. I did briefly mention I was going through some difficult issues at the moment as well, but didn't go into details.

A few weeks later, my health issues are resolving and I'm looking/feeling a lot better actually. I can actually get somewhat of a reasonable night's sleep finally after 6 months, and I am looking much fresher. Recently even some friends noticed and commented how I look good recently. Now I actually look like the photos I put up on the app!

I really feel her declining interest like it was mainly stemmed from a lack of enough physical attraction at the time. Hey I don't blame her!! It definitely wasn't a lack of connection of not having similar values, or the dates themselves being uninteresting. I want to reach out to her to explain a bit about what was going on, though I feel it's a bit unusual/awkward to say like "hey I'm looking much better now!!" to a girl that ended things romantically. I'm not sure how this would come across, even if logically I feel like it may have been the reason why she lost interest, I feel like it is a hard sell to pull off and not sure how to maneuver everything.

For now, I am continuing to focus on my health, my business, and my personal life, and keep things going as everything has been doing much better recently!

Edited November 30, 2021 by green48175

[ShyViolet]

You have no idea if you looking "tired and worn out" was the reason that she decided she wasn't interested in pursuing a relationship with you.  You are making a lot of assumptions here.  Women look at men as the total package, not just their looks.  She might have felt that she didn't click with your personality or you didn't have compatible values or something.  I think it would come off as weird and desperate to contact her again and ask her to reconsider dating you, after she already told you that she doesn't feel it.  You may feel better now and think you look better, but you're still the same person that you were then, the same person that she decided she wasn't interested in dating.  Just focus on your health and move on.

[Alpacalia]

You seem to think it was because you looked worn and haggard.

But she seemed to switch gears after the 4th date where the two of you made out.

How was the kissing session?

Did she seem into it?

Were you into it?

Edited November 30, 2021 by Alpaca

[green48175]

1 hour ago, ShyViolet said:

You have no idea if you looking "tired and worn out" was the reason that she decided she wasn't interested in pursuing a relationship with you.  You are making a lot of assumptions here.  Women look at men as the total package, not just their looks.  She might have felt that she didn't click with your personality or you didn't have compatible values or something.  I think it would come off as weird and desperate to contact her again and ask her to reconsider dating you, after she already told you that she doesn't feel it.  You may feel better now and think you look better, but you're still the same person that you were then, the same person that she decided she wasn't interested in dating.  Just focus on your health and move on.

Thanks for the post. I don't disagree with this advice in general, though I will point out that she asked me some personal questions about my values and I answered honestly and she loved my response she said. We spent a lot of time together even though it was only 4 dates in total, and pushed hard to remain friends and even wanted to hang out so I feel like our personalities get along well at the very least. 

 

59 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

You seem to think it was because you looked worn and haggard.

But she seemed to switch gears after the 4th date where the two of you made out.

How was the kissing session?

Did she seem into it?

Were you into it?

Yes definitely! TBH her interest level dropped after the second date imo. Which coincidentally was a walk outside (bright lighting) and the bar at the event where we had drinks for 1.5 hours, I later realized the lighting was harsh and awful! I def didn't look super great on this date under these conditions, especially compared to the first date which happened to be dim lighting in a restaurant where I noticed that my fatigue wasn't really showing through. 

Admittedly, I didn't kiss her on the second date, and I probably should have. I hope that shouldn't be a game ending scenario esp. with wearing masks everywhere indoors, and a constant reminder of the pandemic doesn't help either. But after that date, her texts become slower, less frequent, and her availability declined even though the event was fun (in her words) and overall it was a good time imo. It was an uphill battle after that though. 

On the 4th date, I have to admit, she seemed a bit distant when we got to my place just us two alone. I was unclear of her interest level at that point, so I was even surprised we had a makeout sess at all. The makeout on date #4 seemed decent to me, not mindblowing or anything, but I felt like she was into it. 

I'm not saying that my game was 100, or that there aren't any other possible explanations here. But I do feel like the physical attraction wasn't really there for her, mainly cause of the stuff I was going through. Thankfully, which has largely resolved, and will continue to improve over time. I'm still focusing on that in the meantime.

Edited November 30, 2021 by green48175

[Alpacalia]

19 minutes ago, green48175 said:

Yes definitely! TBH her interest level dropped after the second date imo. Which coincidentally was a walk outside (bright lighting) and the bar at the event where we had drinks for 1.5 hours, I later realized the lighting was harsh and awful! I def didn't look super great on this date under these conditions, especially compared to the first date which happened to be dim lighting in a restaurant where I noticed that my fatigue wasn't really showing through. 

Admittedly, I didn't kiss her on the second date, and I probably should have. I hope that shouldn't be a game ending scenario esp. with wearing masks everywhere indoors, and a constant reminder of the pandemic doesn't help either. But after that date, her texts become slower, less frequent, and her availability declined even though the event was fun (in her words) and overall it was a good time imo. It was an uphill battle after that though. 

On the 4th date, I have to admit, she seemed a bit distant when we got to my place just us two alone. I was unclear of her interest level at that point, so I was even surprised we had a makeout sess at all. The makeout on date #4 seemed decent to me, not mindblowing or anything, but I felt like she was into it. 

I'm not saying that my game was 100, or that there aren't any other possible explanations here. But I do feel like the physical attraction wasn't really there for her, mainly cause of the stuff I was going through. Thankfully, which has largely resolved, and will continue to improve over time. I'm still focusing on that in the meantime.

Thank you for providing this extra information.

If you do not really think she is physically attracted to you, there must be "something" else that draws her to you if it's to go anywhere.

Personally, I believe that whatever emotional chemistry you have with someone will ultimately triumph over physical attractiveness.

Having said that, I would not contact her to clarify anything.

And, please, don't take it personally. If you want to stay friends with her, go ahead; if not, don't. Dating someone doesn't always seem right, and it's no one's fault. Compatibility is something that must be felt intuitively, regardless of how attractive the other person appears.

[green48175]

17 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

Thank you for providing this extra information.

If you do not really think she is physically attracted to you, there must be "something" else that draws her to you if it's to go anywhere.

Personally, I believe that whatever emotional chemistry you have with someone will ultimately triumph over physical attractiveness.

Having said that, I would not contact her to clarify anything.

And, please, don't take it personally. If you want to stay friends with her, go ahead; if not, don't. Dating someone doesn't always seem right, and it's no one's fault. Compatibility is something that must be felt intuitively, regardless of how attractive the other person appears.

I def don't think she found me ugly or anything (or I hope not haha!), but yeah given how I wasn't looking my best at the time, I don't think I was viewed as ultra attractive in her eyes. I do believe there is a huge halo effect on looks and personality though. Physical attraction can heavily influence emotional chemistry in my experience. 

Either way, I don't disagree with the ultimate end conclusion suggested. I agree she probably "felt" we weren't compatible, even if I believe the main reason was at the time is that she subconsciously wasn't attracted enough to me physically. The explanation most likely won't make a difference and could simply come across as desperate as ShyViolet pointed out.

Edited November 30, 2021 by green48175

[salparadise]

You don't mention having dated anyone else –– was she the only person you've gone out with recently, or were you particularly attracted  to her, or felt something special? I mean, there are a million fish in the sea. Why would you continue to be invested wtih this particular woman when you could just as easily arrange to go out with a few others? And I would not advise trying to be "friends," whatever that actually means. It's amazing to me how many women (and men apparently) think that's some kind of consolation. 

Women have images and ideas as to what they want and believe they deserve in the way of suitors. Some are realistic, some aren't, and it doesn't matter which it is. When a woman tells you straight up that she's not interested in dating you, the odds of her catching fire by either squeezing out another date, or hanging out as "friends," is pretty much zero. Your dignity, however, is worth everything. So when they tell you something along those lines, what they're really saying is "eh, you don't match my fantasy and I think I can do better." That's your cue to take the nearest exit and don't waste another minute. 

[Alpacalia]

26 minutes ago, green48175 said:

I def don't think she found me ugly or anything (or I hope not haha!), but yeah given how I wasn't looking my best at the time, I don't think I was viewed as ultra attractive in her eyes. I do believe there is a huge halo effect on looks and personality though. Physical attraction can heavily influence emotional chemistry in my experience. 

Either way, I don't disagree with the ultimate end conclusion suggested. I agree she probably "felt" we weren't compatible, even if I believe the main reason was at the time is that she subconsciously wasn't attracted enough to me physically. The explanation most likely won't make a difference and could simply come across as desperate as ShyViolet pointed out.

No worries, greenie.

That, after all, is the magic of it all. Chemistry is mysterious.

I just mean that when the emotional connection grows stronger, physical attraction can grow in intensity.

But I can see how physical attraction can foster emotional chemistry too!

So, good luck with whatever you decide.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Alpaca

[Wiseman2]

You seem to think it was your looks/fatigue.

Keep in mind you're both still talking to and meeting others. It may have nothing to do with you.

Focus less on your "game". Sometimes things just fizzle and it has nothing to do with you.

Don't chase. Don't go into your health problems, looks, etc. 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

OP, do you really look that dramatically different now than you did a couple weeks ago?

I doubt the difference is as significant as you think it is, meaning you likely didn’t look that bad weeks ago either. How you look under bright sunlight now is probably more or less the same (to the outside observer) as it was then. 

That’s why I’m inclined to say that contacting her now to tell her you look better isn’t going to bring the results you want, simply because unless your face has changed a lot, you’ll probably look almost the same to her.

You don’t know if it’s about your appearance anyway, so I would encourage you to let this be. 

[JRabbit]

I really, seriously doubt it was the lighting. OP are you insecure by nature or just because your health has been in decline?

Did you mention any of those issues on the date or that you had personal issues going on?

I don't think she sees relationship potential, I don't think it has anything to do with "looks" or she wouldn't have went back for 3 or 4.  You may have did or said something that showed her you weren't the one.

Don't reach out, don't be friends. Move on.

[glows]

What I've gotten from your concerns, OP, is that you seem overly preoccupied with yourself and that may have been a turn off even though you didn't intend it to be. Kissing or not kissing on a first or second date doesn't matter. These things are superficial. Your confidence might have taken a hit in dealing with your personal issues and that's visible in someone who isn't walking straight or as upbeat as he/she might usually be. You may be entirely correct that she wasn't attracted but due to subtle cues you were giving off. People do want to be around others whose energy they can appreciate or have synergy with. Being worried about what you look like in the present moment can throw off the vibe too. You're not exactly present.

I wouldn't contact her about your personal issues. She has expressed no interest in pursuing this so take it for what it is and I'd practice being more mindful and present in the moment, regardless of anything else going on outside of that. Put your other worries aside. If you can't, hold off dating. You're not in the frame of mind for it. 

 

[Fox Sake]

Put more value into the stock of who you are as person. Looks only get your foot in the door. Personality and conversation is what wins people over.  

(unless it’s a superficial shallow thing between both people) 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Fox Sake
Missed a simple word ….

[smackie9]

I would just focus on the end result. She's not interested. Leave it and move on.

[Lotsgoingon]

I agree with others: you're putting way too much emphasis on your looks as the determining factor. I'm sorry, the quality of lighting doesn't determine how attracted someone is to us. 

You're missing the energy of attraction. Once you're "good enough" looking basically it's energy and connection and back-and-forth chemistry that plays a huge role in deciding whether to go forward or not. For example, you mention some great discussion on values. I'm sorry: yes values matter, but you cannot get attraction through similar values. There has to be something else. I know all kinds of people with my political views and values towards the world--it doesn't really give me an ounce of attraction to them or them to me.

As for the bad lighting on the second date: if we find someone attractive on the first date and then later we see them in bad lighting--and we have some chemistry-- we'll do what those hollywood cinematographers do: we adjust our lens to make the start look better. When there is chemistry we make the person better looking. 

You mention not kissing her on the second date. Usually we don't kiss because the chemistry isn't there.  With chemistry two people will eventually stand close to each other, really close, more and more close as the night goes on and at some point it becomes harder to not kiss than it is to kiss. That idea of a leap--that you should have kissed her--that thinking is where you might be missing that there isn't chemistry going on.  Heck, I've been out with women with I was younger and got totally scared and the women took the initiative to kiss--because we are already in the zone of closeness and physicality. 

BTW: if you weren't feeling well and you do know this affects your looks (and especially if it affects your energy), you probably want to tell the person you've already been on a date with. Since you seem to be into strategy telling someone what's going on is far more confident than trying to hide it. And for your own benefit, you don't want to hide illness. That's just not establishing a good foundation to a relationship. Yes, some people will be scared away by your openness, but holding back creates its own emotional distance anyway. So you are not really being close and real with the person if you hold back key information like that so the chemistry can get blocked and limited. 

Good looks btw is not exactly what attraction is.  I'm sure you see pretty people all the time without necessarily feeling a charge. At your work or on your block there are probably some really beautiful people who you might not even like. 

 

 

[ShyViolet]

This theory that "the lighting" was the factor that made her not attracted to you is, I think, really reaching.  I find it hard to believe that you look so dramatically different now and I think the difference is probably mostly in your head.  If you reach out to her to chase her again, you're probably going to get rejected again.  Chasing someone who already broke things off with you is never a good idea.

[mark clemson]

17 hours ago, green48175 said:

For now, I am continuing to focus on my health, my business, and my personal life, and keep things going as everything has been doing much better recently!

Sounds like a plan. Leave the option for her to come back open, but don't chase and don't "wait for her"/stop seeking other romantic options. There's perhaps a 2% chance of her ever coming back, so it's not worth holding out hope for. IF it happens, great, but it's super rare.