Author ironpony Posted November 30, 2021 Author Posted November 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, basil67 said: So you're complaining that there are laws and guidelines to help a couple have a fair divorce? This complaint will not help her understand. No I am wanting to explain to her that their are laws and guidelines in place to have an unfair divorce, since two guys I know got taken to the cleaners, and the woman seem to get almost everything in those cases. Just personal experiences, but that's what I have to go on, which is the benefit of having personal experiences. So I want to tell her that the pre-nup is a way to avoid the unfair laws and guidelines.
basil67 Posted November 30, 2021 Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ironpony said: No I am wanting to explain to her that their are laws and guidelines in place to have an unfair divorce, since two guys I know got taken to the cleaners, and the woman seem to get almost everything in those cases. My sister's ex would argue that she took him to the cleaners. But the truth is she took less than 50%. There are two sides to every story. If you want to make this point, do so with the full story, the argument from both complainants and the explanation from the judge on why he made the decision. Anything less has no grounds to argue. Edited November 30, 2021 by basil67
Author ironpony Posted November 30, 2021 Author Posted November 30, 2021 Oh okay, but are you saying I shouldn't go by my personal experiences from people I know though, compared to people I do not know personally? I just always had a reason to buy into personal experiences more. I feel that personal experiences is all I have to really go by, and that it's not asking too much to see things based on that.
basil67 Posted November 30, 2021 Posted November 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, ironpony said: Oh okay, but are you saying I shouldn't go by my personal experiences from people I know though, compared to people I do not know personally? I just always had a reason to buy into personal experiences more. I feel that personal experiences is all I have to really go by, and that it's not asking too much to see things based on that. It's not a personal experience. It's the experience of a friend which has been related from their perspective. And yes, only go by information where you have ALL the details. I said earlier that there are two sides to every story, but I was wrong. There are actually three sides: His side, her side and the truth.
Author ironpony Posted November 30, 2021 Author Posted November 30, 2021 I see what you mean. However, I just feel I need insurance that if things go wrong, that there is a plan in place, and the pre-nup helps guarantee a plan in place, just in case. So I guess I should concentrate on explaining that to her, rather than what I think of the court's cabapility of not making the best judgments possibly?
chillii Posted November 30, 2021 Posted November 30, 2021 lt's a lot worse there heard countless horror stories, horror stories, l'd be getting one too. But at the same time , your suppose to be a team and things you've built in marriage if so are together and so fair is fair as long as it's fair. Mind you marry yourself a princess or otherwise on the other hand and things could get wellll,and she might have a problem with fair sooooo, l think your being very smart about it. Sadly to be thinking about the what ifs and the end , when you haven't even begun , butttt. How to go about talking it out well , if your thinking of marrying the woman you should be able to talk it and anything else out quite easily.
basil67 Posted November 30, 2021 Posted November 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, ironpony said: I see what you mean. However, I just feel I need insurance that if things go wrong, that there is a plan in place, and the pre-nup helps guarantee a plan in place, just in case. So I guess I should concentrate on explaining that to her, rather than what I think of the court's cabapility of not making the best judgments possibly? You can explain all you like, but I still say that the idealism born of romanticism and lack of experience will work against you.
Author ironpony Posted November 30, 2021 Author Posted November 30, 2021 I guess it's early to talk about it for sure, it's just she was asking me about how things went wrong with my ex before, so I was wondering what to tell her. But also, her friend is getting married and is having trouble over a pre-nup issue herself, so since this is also happening to her friend, I thought she may ask me my opinion on it, possibly.
basil67 Posted November 30, 2021 Posted November 30, 2021 Just now, ironpony said: I guess it's early to talk about it for sure, it's just she was asking me about how things went wrong with my ex before, so I was wondering what to tell her. But also, her friend is getting married and is having trouble over a pre-nup issue herself, so since this is also happening to her friend, I thought she may ask me my opinion on it, possibly. So going back to the advice at the start of the thread, you can either tell her it was about the prenup or you can tell her that it was "incompatibility". Though whichever way you go, she's likely to ask more about it. If she talks about her friend's position, make sure you understand the discussion fully before you comment.
ShyViolet Posted November 30, 2021 Posted November 30, 2021 I think you're making this way more complicated than it needs to be. There's no need to go into this explanation about the government and courts. I would just say that having a prenup is something that's important to you, because you need to protect your assets. It's a simple measure of protection, almost like getting insurance. That shouldn't be hard for her to understand. Don't make this all messy and complicated with a whole rant about the government and legal system.
Killian898 Posted November 30, 2021 Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) Dude, just keep it vague and tell her you and your ex “grew apart”. No need to get into the details. You are only potentially opening a can of worms with your new girlfriend and no need tbh. Edited November 30, 2021 by Killian898 1
Wiseman2 Posted November 30, 2021 Posted November 30, 2021 "Things didn't work out" is all you need to say. Because it's true. You're still living with your parents, you weren't engaged and there weren't the type of assets that warrant a prenup, so you're just throwing up words that make no sense. Stop talking to her about your past.
Foxhall Posted November 30, 2021 Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, basil67 said: A woman who has a divorce already behind her is far more likely to be pragmatic about such things than a romantic, inexperienced young woman. Yes I imagine so, my gf was previously married and divorced, she brings this up with me- there is a bit of wealth in my family (well depends how you define wealth I suppose, its not seven figures or anything and not due to anything I ever did!) she always says to me though if we get married she wants a prenup-she does not want any of my assets or potential assets, I say dont be silly-whatever I have is yours. I suppose its a good sign though if the woman is happy to agree to that. I have some male "friends" who would happily take them off me, mind you, although that is another story. Edited November 30, 2021 by Foxhall
Ami1uwant Posted November 30, 2021 Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, ironpony said: Oh well what I mean is that the government and the courts have made some really questionable and considerably unfair decisions in when it comes to assets in a divorce, so I want remove the government from getting involved in our marriage, hence pre-nup, is what I meant. A prenup does not remove liability if you live in a community property state. If you had her move into your home and lived with you and at the time you moved in you had only 40% of principal paid off she own 50% of the principal gained for each year she lived under that roof. after marriage you buy a new car, she owns half of it. Edited November 30, 2021 by Ami1uwant
smackie9 Posted November 30, 2021 Posted November 30, 2021 Everyone is forgetting the real reason for a prenup. It's to organize things ahead of time in the event of a separation so there isn't fighting in the courts wasting money on lawyers. It's to protect both party's interest not just the guy's assets. It's not always about what the guy can lose. Prenups include inheritance, lottery winnings, collections, businesses, alimony, accumulated debt, child support, living arrangements, division of property of accumulated assets during the marriage, etc. It's not all cut and dry, "I keep everything and you get nothing". It's supposed to be a fair, and agreeable contract. I think it's a really good idea. 1
vla1120 Posted November 30, 2021 Posted November 30, 2021 9 hours ago, ironpony said: I guess it's early to talk about it for sure, it's just she was asking me about how things went wrong with my ex before, so I was wondering what to tell her. But also, her friend is getting married and is having trouble over a pre-nup issue herself, so since this is also happening to her friend, I thought she may ask me my opinion on it, possibly. I am a fan of full disclosure. If she asks you what went wrong, I do not see anything wrong with telling her that you worked very hard to acquire your savings and took steps to protect your premarital assets before you planned to get married and she refused to sign the prenup. If your girlfriend expresses concern, let her know that you also respect her wanting to protect her premarital assets and would have no problem signing a prenup that allows her the same protection.
Lotsgoingon Posted November 30, 2021 Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) Wait til you guys are seriously discussing marriage. As in you sit down and you're thinking about X date within the next 18 months. It's none of her business at this point. The key work you want to do in the meantine is to really get comfortable with protecting your savings. Even practice how you would tell her about this all. Do you extensively know about her finances? When you start talking seriously about marriage, you find out this info in more detail. No need to worry about this for now. Your main goal for now is to keep dating her and think of it this way: you want to marry someone (this is just a thinking exercise) who really wants to take care of you--not in a kid way but in an adult mutual, look-after-your-best-interest way. And your job is to keep paying attention to how you get along. And that therapy you mentioned early is wonderful for you thinking about issues like this with someone else. Relax. No need to discuss right now. And take a little money if you have to do so to go visit a divorce attorney. They will tell you the best way to protect your money. Since you'd be bringing this money into the marriage, in lots of states, unless you comingle that money during the marriage, it's not considered part of what a divorcing spouse can claim. But again, this is for when you guys start thinking about a marriage date--not just "about marriage." Edited November 30, 2021 by Lotsgoingon
Carlon Posted November 30, 2021 Posted November 30, 2021 It won't do you any good to tell her about how guys get taken to the cleaners by the government in divorce. Why? Because in her mind the two of you will be together forever, in love and happiness and will defy the statistics that clearly show most marriages do not last. She thinks the two of you will be different, just like every person mistakenly believes. So, in short- what you say about the government and divorce is not only irrelevant because in her mind it won't ever happen, and frankly it's downright insulting to her that you'd even think that things won't be great forever, and in the extremely unlikely event it did happen she wouldn't do anything to hurt you. Until of course, it actually happens and it's every man and woman for him or herself.
Lotsgoingon Posted November 30, 2021 Posted November 30, 2021 I agree: stay away from that "guys get taken to the cleaners" narrative. I don't think that's true. Every mention of how men and women fare after divorce says men's incomes go up while women's incomes decline. Now if there are kids involved, then child support and alimony might change things. But for very good reason! And there are a lot of jerk guys out there. Guys who controlled the money when the couple was together who then take advantage of their knowledge of the finances to move money out of joint accounts, hide money and so on. The really sadistic ones will hire a killer lawyer with money they moved out of joint accounts. And in the absolute worst cases, this can happens in marriages where the guy didn't want the woman to work or have her own money and on and on. Literally when two of my friends hit rocky points in their marriages, the first words I said after I listened was, "do you know what bank accounts you have and where the money is?" Turns out both of my friends controlled the money in their families--kinda against the gender stereotype. And they both ended up staying married. I don't doubt that your friends said what they said and that they meant what they said. I am just saying that's not a winning argument--and it may not even true broadly speaking. There is some research I've seen saying that women initiate a majority of divorces and that guys struggle more emotionally than women do after the divorce. So guys might have more hurt and feeling of failure after divorce and that colors how they report on things.
Woggle Posted November 30, 2021 Posted November 30, 2021 Not trying to tar all women with the same brush but look at almost any relationship forum and you see countless stories of men who thought they had a happy marriage and out of the blue she drops a divorce on him. It is fact that women initiate the majority of divorces and a man needs to protect himself in case this happens. Any woman worth marrying will be understanding of this. My wife signed a prenup with no hesitation because she knows she has the character to never turn on me like that. If she can't understand and empathize with the male perspective in relationships then how do you expect the two of you to actually sit down and discuss issues when disagreements pop up. It will just turn into her having demands and you being the ogre for not meeting them. It sounds unromantic to plan for this scenario but divorce courts are filled with men who didn't and they pay the price. When the woman who said her vows on your wedding day makes you the enemy and is going for jugular you will wish you had that protection.
Lauriebell82 Posted December 1, 2021 Posted December 1, 2021 I'm not a fan of prenups in all honesty but given that I am divorced and have my own significant assets, if asked to sign one I'd probably say yes (mainly because I'd probably be the one benefiting from that now that I am older). But I'd also ask that it be ripped up as long as the marriage is going well after 5 years. Because in reality prenups don't really hold up and they are more a means of psychologically protecting oneself in the grand scheme of thing (as in "if this fails I don't be any better or worse off"). But like I said, I have my own money so what do I really care now. If you feel like you need that reassurance and it's something you cannot do without in a marriage then I would present it to her. Just be prepared that some women are going to have some pretty strong feelings regarding prenups. Not everyone is a fan. 1
Carlon Posted December 1, 2021 Posted December 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Woggle said: you see countless stories of men who thought they had a happy marriage and out of the blue she drops a divorce on him. It is fact that women initiate the majority of divorces and a man needs to protect himself in case this happens. Any woman worth marrying will be understanding of this. My wife signed a prenup with no hesitation because she knows she has the character to never turn on me like that. You know all this and yet you still got married anyway. So what you got a pre-nup. That's like taking a ripped umbrella into a thunderstorm. Might keep out some of the rain, it might collapse. SMH
Woggle Posted December 1, 2021 Posted December 1, 2021 14 minutes ago, Carlon said: You know all this and yet you still got married anyway. So what you got a pre-nup. That's like taking a ripped umbrella into a thunderstorm. Might keep out some of the rain, it might collapse. SMH I have been happily married for 16 years and she has been vetted front and back. The prenup was part of that vetting.
Carlon Posted December 1, 2021 Posted December 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Woggle said: I have been happily married for 16 years I was too.
Woggle Posted December 1, 2021 Posted December 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, Carlon said: I was too. Nothing is 100% but I expect to have another happy 16 years and more with her. I know the signs of a woman distancing herself and so far she has yet to show any of them plus neither one of us has to be in this marriage to survive so we are here because we want to be. That being said a woman should be understanding and empathetic to a man's fears about marriage and divorce as should a man be about any worries a woman might have. If you don't want your SO other to have peace of mind then you do not love them enough to deserve their commitment.
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