35 year old male virgin - not sure what to do

[czanclus]

On 11/22/2021 at 8:23 PM, SharpshooterTom said:

I know the prognosis for someone in my situation is not good, but I dont want to die a virgin never experiencing a relationship.  It hurts me.

These two states are NOT equivalent. You can easily absolve yourself from the state of virginity without ever experiencing a relationship. Harder the other way around, but still possible. I'm living proof. Anyway... Not to be crass, but uh... I hear there are paid services for treating virginity, and with a little skill, you may be able to get away with it for free with a regular girl deluding herself she is into the casual as well for the time being. Not nice, not ethical, but absolutely possible. Who knows, maybe something even develops from it. Word on the street is, these days, men are a commodity who call the shots. You'd have to be severely deficient to miss out. Good luck, just in case you need it.

Edited November 25, 2021 by czanclus

[czanclus]

On 11/22/2021 at 8:23 PM, SharpshooterTom said:

Hi all,

I'm a 35 year old male virgin whos never been on a date, never been kissed, or even had a female friend.

So what's gone wrong?  I was the always unpopular kid at school who nobody wanted to be friends with.  What childhood friends I did have often became my school bullies who would get the whole class against me if I wasn't doing them certain favours etc.  I moved school aged 14 and at the same time was developing social anxiety, which became quite severe.  I became frightened about making friends due to previous trauma and getting close to people.  So I became a massive recluse and felt comfort avoiding social situations.  This continued throughout my college years being the class loner/loser until I was 25 and attempted suicide.  I was later diagnosed with severe depression and went on a therapy course to deal with my low self esteem.  Although it was useful to finally speak about my problems, it didn't really address my real issue of severe social anxiety, which after contacting my doctor last year about feeling suicidal once again, I'm now for the first time getting CBT therapy for my Social Anxiety.

I currently work in a factory but looking to go back to college with a long term plan for a career in actuarial science or a medical career (dentistry or pharmacy).

I've been working hard in the past few years to break my social anxiety, putting myself out there, trying to strike up conversations with techniques I've learned with my therapist, considering to go further now and join some clubs, and out of work social actvities etc.  We are making some very good progress.

But one thing that concerns me is all my social contact, and all the (few) friends I've had in my life have always been male.  I've had issues recently trying to talk to women (not a creepy/sexual way, just a cordial/friendly way just like I would do with men) but for some reason I cannot for the life of me make any inroads in socialising with women, and I'm not sure why that is?

Like today I was working with a woman in her 20s who I see daily but only worked with her for the first time, and so I wanted to break the ice and tried to chat to her, i.e. how long have you been working here, do you like it here, just nonsense stuff really, but she was very cold, very short answers "umm yeah I guess'", she never once asked me any questions, so I got impression to stop talking to her really as she looked bored with me.  Then when another guy takes over she is very chatty all of a sudden.  This happens a lot with my social interactions with women.

This worries me, because clearly my virginity is a product of my social anxiety and being a recluse I get that, which Im trying to address now, but if I can't have any women to enjoy my social company how on earth I expect to ever get a girlfriend?  I know the prognosis for someone in my situation is not good, but I dont want to die a virgin never experiencing a relationship.  It hurts me.

Any suggestions about what I can do?

To show more respect, tough road to be on, we all have our flavor of struggle. My most significant ex would have been you, had I not interjected at his age of 19 (I was 25/6). He then after we broke up, two years later, had no one (though I'm sure he... uh... took some comfort from the courtisans of various party towns occasionally in exchange for a fee). He wrote to me once a detailed account of how when he tries to approach a woman he clam shells and knows not what to do. He was not attractive to the demographic he was targeting. He was further not motivated enough to make himself attractive to that target demographic other than maybe not letting himself become too overweight. Way too cerebral for high IQ people, let alone average smarts church-going petite Asian girls he seemed to have a thing for. Conundrum, no doubt. At his age of 35, as he was getting ready to retire from the silicone valley tech world, a woman from work about 9 years his junior intercepted his lonely self, whose friends have all married and had babies born or on the way, by flat out asking him to go out. He accepted, and they for all I know, as he mysteriously cut all contact with me (his friend for 16 years at that time) soon after she entered the picture, have been living happily ever after. Individual results may vary, but hopefully this instills some optimism that even when you're totally unkempt and not even remotely trying to get with the ladies, just by virtue of being a man with a job, some will find you.

Don't rest on your laurels, though, and most of all, don't betray your standards. Experiment, don't be afraid. The 20 yo is just an incidental. Go for something a little more mature next time, but generally try all across the board, especially if you're finding someone attractive. Throughout it all, have confidence in your value, you seem like a sensitive kind person.

[SharpshooterTom]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the responses so far, much appreciated.  Before I get to responding to posts I just want to say with regards to the interaction I had with the female coworker, I was speaking to a male coworker (whose been there six years, I've only been there two months) asking about his working relationship with her, do you like her, do you get on with her, then explained to him my experience.  He told me when he first worked with her (for a whole day, not just a couple of hours like I did) he said he couldn't get two words out of her, she rarely spoke back to him, he felt very awkward the whole day.  Now I watch him work with her and they talk regularly, she laughs with him a lot etc.  Now his social skills would be much greater than mine, he's 33 (two years younger than me) married, has 3 kids, eldest being 9 years of age, so if she was doing that to him when they first met, perhaps I wasn't the problem as much as I think I was.

Its important I state this because depression is an illness that perpetuates distorted thinking often interpreting situations like that negatively onto myself.  I mean I came home nearly in tears that night, I felt awful the next day, couldn't even do my work properly, but it just shows you how depression works, and why CBT therapy is useful in my situation.  My therapist was pleased that I am beginning to develop to alternative reasoning to my social situations, and its not always I'm simply the worst person in the world, everyone hates me, no one will ever like me etc.

I was actually covering for someone else during a rest break and worked with her for 10 minutes the other day, and she said more words in that time than she did during the 2 hours I worked with her.  I still come across as lacking in social skills, and I do still come across as awkward from time to time, so I'm not going to be making her laugh all the time like the married coworker who is much more socially adjusted than I am and ahead on the curve, but it does give me hope than I'm not as unlikeable as I think I am and I can also socialize with women over time.

Edited November 28, 2021 by SharpshooterTom

[SharpshooterTom]

On 11/24/2021 at 5:58 AM, Yosemite said:

What did kids tease you about when you were a kid?

Why couldn't you make friends when you were in grade school? 

Does your brother have the same issues you do? 

Does your father give you any advice? If so, what is it? 

You said that even now as an adult, most men don't like you. Do you have any idea why? 

1) General things, that I was weirdo, laughing behind my back, kids noticing I was weak throwing my stuff around the classroom, whizzing in my belongings in my locker, throwing me onto the floor whilst walking through the corridors, general stuff really, I rarely would fight back so they kept doing it.  I moved to another school where I avoided bullying, but I did that by avoiding social situations entirely and not making friends in case people got close to me and subsequently would hurt me if I opened up too much.

2) I did, but often my childhood friends turned on me and became my school bullies.  Now one could argue that maybe I was the common denominator in all this and I was the problem, but I think more accurately it was the type of people who wanted to be friends with me saw me as someone they could manipulate and control, so there was often a power dynamic going on.  I was always the weaker one in a friendship, and if I didn't do things people wanted or fell out with them in anyway, there would be severe consequences, like getting the whole class against me etc.  I felt used a lot of the time.

3) Yes he does, he didn't suffer as much bullying as I did, but for reasons best known to himself, he refused to go to school from aged 12 onwards, my mom didn't seem to mind, and my dad didn't like it but didn't really try hard enough to change it.  So whatever social skills I lacked going into adulthood, my brother was even worse.  I think he looked up to me as a peer and copied some of my social avoidant behaviors.  He's changed now, went to college, got a job, but people at college often asked me was he autistic in anyway because he came across as so socially odd (he literally didn't go to school as a teenager so think how far behind his social skills were to his own peers) and those same people would remark that I was completely different and came across as 'normal' (believe it or not).  He told me he was a virgin recently and he's never a had gf.  So we're both f***ed up, but it doesn't seem to bother him, he likes his own company (unlike me) never suffered from depression or has had any suicidal thoughts and doesn't understand why I feel the way I do, so we have arrived at the same place, but are actually are wired differently.  He also drinks a lot of alcohol (I'm a non drinker).

4)Nope.  I love my parents, and they've been very good to me in many ways, but I think when it comes to training us up to be proper well adjusted 'adults' they didn't do a very good job, never once remarked about my lack of a social life as a teen or in college, or the fact I've never had a gf, why I wasn't engaging in any social activities, nothing wrong with me apparently.  Then I attempted suicide in my mid 20s and they were shocked.  Of course since 18, its been fully my fault not theirs, but I think if I were a parent in that situation, I would react differently to having a socially withdrawn teen would be more proactive and recognise the potential dangers later in life that can cause.  I didn't learn to drive or cook or clean my own clothes properly until a few years back, my mom was happy to do it all, and insisted to do everything for me.  At 30 I knew this was way beyond acceptable but my mom demanded otherwise and seem to want me in a peter pan effect mothering me for the rest of my life, and never wanted me to leave home.  No point crying over spilt milk now, but I think mistakes were made.

5) Because I'm socially awkward, come as a bit closed off and a bit boring, not fun to be around. People find socially awkward people hard work and prefer to avoid them naturally.  The only way I break this situation by trying myself to engage in conversations with them, and using my techniques learned in therapy and improve my social skills more.  It might not work with a lot of people because I know I'm not the most charismatic or likeable guy but hopefully I can ease it over time and at least allow me an opportunity to have some sort of a fulfilling social life.

[AnnK]

Being a  virgin is really nothing to  be ashamed of.  I knew of  two men  who  were  far older  than the  "average" (using that  term loosely) virgin.  Not knowing you, it is  hard to  say  why.  But it  will happen for you  eventually.  

 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by AnnK

[Yosemite]

On 11/28/2021 at 4:11 PM, SharpshooterTom said:

General things, that I was weirdo, laughing behind my back, kids noticing I was weak throwing my stuff around the classroom, whizzing in my belongings in my locker, throwing me onto the floor whilst walking through the corridors, general stuff really, I rarely would fight back so they kept doing it

I'm sorry those things happened to you. You've described being bullied very severely, but I was asking specifically about teasing. (What they would say to you, what names they would call you, maybe they made fun of your hygiene etc.) The reason I asked is that children tend to be brutally honest when teasing or taunting a kid, so what they would tease you about could give you information about how you come across to other people now. You could then change whatever off-putting behavior or traits that you have and hopefully be able to make friends. It's hard for all of us to be aware of exactly how we come across to other people and you might struggle with that more than the average person.

Were your parents aware of the level of bullying you were experiencing? You said that they didn't give you any advice...that is so strange. I imagine you coming home crying or angry that the kids at school pissed on your belongings or you came home covered in bruises and with torn clothes from kids beating you up...and your parents didn't even notice you were crying or bruised? Or they did notice and did nothing? They didn't ask you what was wrong? Didn't the kids at school ever once get caught doing those things to you? If so, the teacher/principal must've called your parents, it's very strange that your parents did nothing after getting calls like that from the school. Maybe ask your therapist about that and if you were neglected or emotionally abandoned as a child.

It's odd that your parents didn't encourage you to learn to drive or cook for yourself or clean up after yourself, but it's also odd that you didn't insist on learning those things. Especially driving. Nowadays, fewer teens are learning to drive, but when you were 16 that trend want occurring. Why do you think that you didn't want to learn to drive on time?

Do you still live at home with your parents?

Have you been evaluated for being autistic? If you get diagnosed, you would have access to experts who would have a good understanding of your challenges and would be trained in how to help you to learn how interact with people. It could help you reach your goals faster...I'm thinking that your therapist might be in over his or her head. 

Anyway, don't focus on this woman at work. Instead get diagnosed/evaluated and then get professional help that's specific to your dx. 

[markyyyyyy]

My advice is:

- don't treat women as women, treat them as a person. 

- don't care whether people like or dislike you. 

- have confidence in your qualities and skills, career, etc

- go to the gym (if you already don't) as this will help with your confidence

- chuck yourself in the deep end - use dating sites as a way of chatting and breaking the ice, makes it MUCH easier when you meet in person as you know a little about them.

Don't feel like you have to be over the top when speaking to a girl as if trying too hard. Just be natural. If you connect then conversations flow.