I don't think I'm flirting right on 1st dates or am doing something wrong with my conversations

November 21, 2021

3 hours ago, max3732 said:

I didn't really think about it like that but you're right about not really knowing much about these people and not having much in the way of a "pre screen" as I would in real life.

Usually I've been afraid of giving a woman a compliment since I don't want to put them on a pedestal or just have them think I'm interested in her looks. To give an example from my last date of a compliment I did give though. She was wearing a stunning green dress. I told her that she looks amazing in that dress and I wish I'd worn my green shirt so we'd match or something like that. It just popped in my head. Is that ok? The other thing with the dress was it showed a lot of cleavage and I was actively trying to avoid staring at it. Although I also complimented her on her necklace and got a story from her about it.

What I'm looking for is someone to marry and don't want to be with someone just because she's pretty, successful in her career and smart if she has a personality I don't enjoy.

I am asking them questions but I'm wondering if I'm asking the wrong questions. Like maybe mine are too formal and not fun or ones that would help to get to know who she is beyond the superficial stuff and get me to see the personal (vs professional) side of her.

I've been taller than everyone I've gone out with by at least 3 inches. I think I'm attractive, but then again I might be somewhat biased. I also work out regularly and am in pretty good shape, but I'm not a bodybuilder or fashion model. The only thing I know I've done is the past is that stupid rapid blinking when I get nervous and I don't know how to fix that.

With women I'm not dating there's really only 1 around my age who is single and we have a rather odd situation. We are working on our sports game together and share our dating and professional experiences. At 1 point I considered dating her, but don't think she's right for me. However she's gone back and forth with being like a regular friend and almost flirty. One thing she's said is she wants a guy who will put her in her place, which I'm guessing she doesn't think I'd do.

Aside from her the only women I interact with are family members, ones at work or just when I go out to run errands and such.

id advise against complementing on how they look on the first meet. This is something that can blow up in your face. Similar to The Who pays stuff. They could perceive you looking at them as a sex object or just looking fir a one night stand.

complement them on things they say.

3 inches might not be enough for some who want to wear high heels. Some women have issue if they are taller in heels.

.

on the first date don’t get into deeper personal stuff.

I never wanted to have a gf just to have one. If I had a gf it’s someone I want a LTR with. I have ended or not pursued relationship because I didn’t think something happening. I recall one of these. We were both in college. I got to know her from where I worked. I was a manager of a tutoring lab for math. The regular people who came in I got to know them by first name. Some of these Idsee over 2 yrs a few times a week. One of them I had developed something more with. She was about 5 yrs older than me and she had been married and divorced ( no kids) and moved back home to start over. I wasn’t seeing myself staying there after graduation. This was one of those what if’s I think about and how my life could be very different today.

after dinner is over…what happens? What do you say? Is there a pattern?

a problem with OLD is that people tend to be too quick to judge and can’t easily make choices. A women might view you among the 3 others she has been dating thus week along with 5-10 others she has some communicating with pre meet.

After a date you get inserted 8nto a rank. You might have her at 1 but she might have you at 4. Had you meet IRL and there wasn’t these online choices you two might have a relationship of some time. People are too quick to find faults vs finding positives.

I understand not wanting to pursue a person because of some core differences. Ask yourself what is really important vs this might not be as important as you perceive it to be.

what were some of these differences you found out on a first meet that triggered reject?

November 21, 2021

23 hours ago, ajequals said:

Common Mistake men make is we talk too much. Say as little as possible. be mysterious. see how that works

I gave this same advice to a friend that was rather awkward when dating , spilled his life story so to speak. ,must have worked. he married the girl a year later ,I think there going on their 10th year now.

November 21, 2021

16 hours ago, max3732 said:

What I'm looking for is someone to marry and don't want to be with someone just because she's pretty, successful in her career and smart if she has a personality I don't enjoy.

Wise move. Keep in mind that people change slowly over time, so don't expect someone to necessarily stay "perfect" forever. But yes, by all means you might as well start from a good starting point.

November 22, 2021

Talk more about her and less about yourself.

November 22, 2021

On 11/20/2021 at 6:27 AM, SumGuy said:

Doesn't sound like you are doing anything fundamentally "wrong" it just takes two to tango. I'm with you on not liking the "job interview.," it takes all my will power not to mess with that. As in, if they ask me what I do for a living, saying something like "As little as possible."

All I can suggest on sparking chemistry and romance is to be you, as it is you that you want them to like. Being passionate about a hobby is generally not bad, unless they are like "ewww" on the hobby. You really can't predict that, so be you. Same with attaching a story to things, that sounds great. Long story short (pun intended) sounds like them and not you. Then it may be a question of the pond you are fishing in, or your picker.

This is basically what I think too, @OP. I like the fact that you're willing to examine your own actions. But based on the two examples you gave in a post, it sounds like you were not the problem. I'd put the awkwardness/stilted conversation down to lack of chemistry or the possibility that the women were nervous and weren't able to relax enough to let the conversation flow organically.

November 23, 2021

On 11/19/2021 at 3:30 PM, max3732 said:

I've gone on several first dates lately and haven't had any luck. I feel like only 1 of them had any personality and the other ones were like interview or more factual vs. emotional conversations. At first I thought it was just that none of them have much personality but after my last date I'm wondering if maybe there's something I need to do better.

It seems like they're all just after the basics... where you're from, what you do, your hobbies, family, etc which is all fine and good, but besides that there is no emotion, fun or laughter. For example, on the last date I mentioned a few hobbies and was telling jokes or stories about them and she's looking at me like I'm crazy. I can never seem to get my date to really start laughing or do anything that's fun where I feel like we're really connecting.

With the last woman I dated we were having a lot of fun and joking around the 1st date and I'd like to get something like that again but am just not finding that.

Prior to my last date we were joking a bit and she seemed really playful over text, but on the date it felt like we were going into business together or something. I can be a bit shy and I'm trying my best to be more playful and open up and haven't been nervous on the dates, but am just not getting anything out of them.

Any tips for how to make a first date more like a date and less like a business meeting or simple exchange of info? I just find myself doing most of the talking.

It sounds like there just wasn't any chemistry with that last woman you dated.

Do you ask the women any questions when you are with them? It sounds like you are doing all the talking, which means you are not doing the listening. I think there was probably not enough chemistry but it is worth asking yourself whether you are showing interest in them and their hobbies, work, family, etc. If all you are doing is talking about yourself and trying to 'entertain' the women, then they are probably losing interest. They will want to know about you, of course, but it works both ways. You also need to ask about them and learn what matters to them.

November 23, 2021

1 hour ago, spiderowl said:

It sounds like there just wasn't any chemistry with that last woman you dated.

Do you ask the women any questions when you are with them? It sounds like you are doing all the talking, which means you are not doing the listening. I think there was probably not enough chemistry but it is worth asking yourself whether you are showing interest in them and their hobbies, work, family, etc. If all you are doing is talking about yourself and trying to 'entertain' the women, then they are probably losing interest. They will want to know about you, of course, but it works both ways. You also need to ask about them and learn what matters to them.

Of course I ask them questions! I'd rather have them do 75% of the talking since I already know all about myself. That's the issue. I don't know how to keep them talking or get them more invested in what they're talking about.

For example with one of them she has this incredible background with lots of travel and different jobs and when I asked her about it she gave a very short answer. I keep trying to dig deeper and ask more questions but don't want to get like I'm obsessed with the topic and move on to something else.

I also try to relate their stories to something with me.

November 23, 2021

19 minutes ago, max3732 said:

That's the issue. I don't know how to keep them talking or get them more invested in what they're talking about.

If you're asking the questions and they are giving monosyllabic responses, then the problem is them. And there is nothing more you can do to get a poor conversationalist talking.

If someone's not able to hold up their end of the conversation, then finish your coffee and call it quits.

November 23, 2021

27 minutes ago, max3732 said:

For example with one of them she has this incredible background with lots of travel and different jobs and when I asked her about it she gave a very short answer. I keep trying to dig deeper and ask more questions but don't want to get like I'm obsessed with the topic and move on to something else.

This is NOT you. When the person gives a brief answer to a question that could merit a longer, expansive answer (since it's a real interest of theirs), then chill. Relax and do not work hard to bring the person out.

No, relax ... cut it short if you feel like you're pulling teeth. Person asks you why you're cutting the date short, tell them because they seem closed and are giving one-sentence answers. Otherwise, the dating is one-sided, and that's not good for you.

November 23, 2021

16 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Person asks you why you're cutting the date short, tell them because they seem closed and are giving one-sentence answers.

This! If they are wondering why they are perpetually single, this could give them the info they need. Alternately, if they aren't talking because they aren't interested in you, then you've just saved yourself time and effort.

It's a win win for you.

November 23, 2021

4 hours ago, max3732 said:

. I don't know how to keep them talking or get them more invested in what they're talking about.

Stop trying to control and manipulate the situation this much.

Focus on being yourself. Otherwise you're going to end up with someone who simply tolerates this over controlling approach.

Let them be who they are. It's that simple . Knock off the trying to make them laugh trying to make them talk stuff.

This is your anxiety driving these "make them this, make them that" stuff.

Have a regular conversation. Assessing if you want to see them again. Not worrying about how entertaining you are.

November 23, 2021

On 11/21/2021 at 12:17 AM, Ami1uwant said:

what were some of these differences you found out on a first meet that triggered reject?

A lot of times it's basic values/political differences. I don't want to put my political views here, but even though my basic views are the majority of the state where I live it seems difficult to find women that share them. This is something very important to me and no matter how much we like the same food or movies if her values are completely different from mine it's not going to work. I really did enjoy our conversation and felt like it flowed well though.

November 23, 2021

10 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

This is NOT you. When the person gives a brief answer to a question that could merit a longer, expansive answer (since it's a real interest of theirs), then chill. Relax and do not work hard to bring the person out.

No, relax ... cut it short if you feel like you're pulling teeth. Person asks you why you're cutting the date short, tell them because they seem closed and are giving one-sentence answers. Otherwise, the dating is one-sided, and that's not good for you.

That's how I felt afterwards, but since it has happened with more than 1 woman I thought maybe it's something I'm doing. I told one of my friends the details of the conversation and he was shocked as well that she didn't have more to say.

Going forward I'm not going to press if this happens again.

As far as what I can improve I think maybe just having some more fun questions and not doing the same boring bio ones. I'm just going to keep at it. Hopefully someday I'll find someone I click with

November 23, 2021

47 minutes ago, max3732 said:

A lot of times it's basic values/political differences. I don't want to put my political views here, but even though my basic views are the majority of the state where I live it seems difficult to find women that share them.

Ok. Screen for that beforehand. It doesn't matter what your views are, what matters is it's important to you that someone share these views.

November 23, 2021

2 hours ago, max3732 said:

A lot of times it's basic values/political differences. I don't want to put my political views here, but even though my basic views are the majority of the state where I live it seems difficult to find women that share them. This is something very important to me and no matter how much we like the same food or movies if her values are completely different from mine it's not going to work. I really did enjoy our conversation and felt like it flowed well though.

many OLD have the ability to screen for political leanings and religious views/ practices.

was there something misrepresented on their profile? Do you have what’s important to you in your profile?

November 23, 2021

15 hours ago, max3732 said:

Of course I ask them questions! I'd rather have them do 75% of the talking since I already know all about myself. That's the issue. I don't know how to keep them talking or get them more invested in what they're talking about.

It's just jumping off points, you swing from one topic to the other. If you're listening you'll be able to hear her say something that will lead to the next talking point. You don't have to think of a lot, she'll provide that if she's into the conversation. If she's not participating then she's not that interested.

And she can't do all of the talking, you can interject your thoughts so that she knows you're listening and engaged in the moment, instead of being in your head. When both people are engaged talking should be really easy.

November 23, 2021

5 hours ago, max3732 said:

A lot of times it's basic values/political differences. where I live it seems difficult to find women that share them. This is something very important to me

Ok . Include a pic in your profile with you wearing a "I voted for xyz" T-shirt/hat (or similar)

That rules out a whole bunch without all the forced flirty banter, boring coffee, useless chitchat about favorite movies and whatnot.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Wiseman2

November 23, 2021

5 hours ago, max3732 said:

That's how I felt afterwards, but since it has happened with more than 1 woman I thought maybe it's something I'm doing. I told one of my friends the details of the conversation and he was shocked as well that she didn't have more to say.

Going forward I'm not going to press if this happens again.

As far as what I can improve I think maybe just having some more fun questions and not doing the same boring bio ones. I'm just going to keep at it. Hopefully someday I'll find someone I click with

lf l was about to go out with someone l wouldn't even be thinking of questions, or fun ones , or anything to do with convo. Convo flows , just let it do it's thing, just enjoy if the vibe allows. lf it doesn't or you have to think too much about it or it's painful haha , or things come out that aren't your thing, she ain't for you and you've both found out what you needed to know.

Edited November 23, 2021 by chillii

November 23, 2021

46 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Ok . Include a pic in your profile with you wearing a "I voted for xyz" T-shirt/hat (or similar)

That rules out a whole bunch without all the forced flirty banter, boring coffee, useless chitchat about favorite movies and whatnot.

One of the dating apps has prompts and on the one that says "You should *not* go out with me if" I put something about political views. Also where it says "you should leave a comment if" I put some basic values that are important to me. Don't know if some people don't read your whole profile or what.

3 hours ago, Ami1uwant said:

many OLD have the ability to screen for political leanings and religious views/ practices.

was there something misrepresented on their profile? Do you have what’s important to you in your profile?

You have to pay to screen for additional screens so without paying if I add that screen I have to take out one like age or finding a non smoker which is probably even more important. There is a place on the profile to put political affiliation but many people don't answer it. Just like they don't answer if they have or want kids.

I feel funny asking them who they voted for or their politics before we've met. Maybe I should though.

1 hour ago, dramafreezone said:

It's just jumping off points, you swing from one topic to the other. If you're listening you'll be able to hear her say something that will lead to the next talking point. You don't have to think of a lot, she'll provide that if she's into the conversation. If she's not participating then she's not that interested.

And she can't do all of the talking, you can interject your thoughts so that she knows you're listening and engaged in the moment, instead of being in your head. When both people are engaged talking should be really easy.

So swinging from one topic to another without anything deep or fun is ok? Like if I get home from the date and I can remember talking about all the basic bio info and then also her favorite food, how she got along with her siblings growing up, what kind of work she does, etc but we never really laughed or talked about anything really exciting.

November 23, 2021

19 minutes ago, max3732 said:

So swinging from one topic to another without anything deep or fun is ok? Like if I get home from the date and I can remember talking about all the basic bio info and then also her favorite food, how she got along with her siblings growing up, what kind of work she does, etc but we never really laughed or talked about anything really exciting.

You're mixing it all up. Correct, you don't want to talk about "deep" stuff when you're trying to build attraction. Fun stuff is great, but stay away from deep or serious topics. I would also avoid talking about work. You want her to associate you with fun, lightheartedness, laughing.

You think she's going to have fun thinking about her dog getting run over when she was 7, or how her father left their family? You don't go into deep stuff because you don't know if it was a positive or negative experience for them. Lawyers have a saying in criminal trials, you don't ask witnesses questions that you don't already know the answer to. I relate that to dating in saying you only want to discuss things that you know she'll have a positive reaction to. That's why you focus on her favorite TV shows, where she's traveled, etc.

You especially don't want to talk about politics or religion. This is coming from someone that's made all of these mistakes. You think that stuff's going to make her want to set another date with you? She doesn't want to think about that stuff, that is stuff to get into when you're already her boyfriend for months.

Edited November 23, 2021 by dramafreezone

November 23, 2021

OK, the way to break from the bio-interview questions is to actually go a bit deeper.

She mentions her job, right? OK, you can do several things. One, you can show curiosity. Like ask about what exactly she does on the job. Then you can ask if the person likes their job. Then shut up! ... Shut up and let the person think ... if they give a brief answer, that isn't necessarily bad because many people have jobs they feel 60 percent good/40 percent bad about ... and that can fluctuate to 50/50 or 40/60 ... So when you ask a question like whether she likes her job, don't fill the air ... That's a bit of an open-ended question because your next question might be "what do you like about the job?"

Now, one goal here is to find out how this person thinks and find out a bit about. How people describe their jobs can be quite revealing. You might be struggling with being too polite and distant. A good conversation will get into the revealing and intrusive, though it won't feel "intrusive" ... because the energy is there for mutual self-revealing.

And be ready when the person asks, "well what about you?" Have your answer ... ready ... and go into some depth if you want. You can use that question to share more about who you are just as you can use the other person's answers to assess who they are.

But again, this should basically take place naturally when you have chemistry. I'm sensing though that you would like to improve your conversation in general even when there isn't chemistry, and that's totally cool. You have to ask good questions to get the conversation going ... or share something really funny and interesting ... Meanwhile you're not just listening to the answers, you really way to pay attention to their affect, their body, their body language, their face. Do they seem happy? Energized? If someone likes you they might be a bit nervous ...

Just keep going out and do trial and error. That's really the only way to improve conversation. It's funny: a friend of mine is writing a book about the art of conversation.

November 23, 2021

Enjoying the responses on this,

I dont have much to add really,

I felt my chances improved on dates once I had the mindset "well women actually like me usually" so that was a good mindset to have before I sat down with any new lady,

in saying that If I had to start all over from scratch again not sure whether I would have the stomach for it.

November 24, 2021

7 hours ago, max3732 said:

One of the dating apps has prompts and on the one that says "You should *not* go out with me if" I put something about political views. Also where it says "you should leave a comment if" I put some basic values that are important to me. Don't know if some people don't read your whole profile or what.

You have to pay to screen for additional screens so without paying if I add that screen I have to take out one like age or finding a non smoker which is probably even more important. There is a place on the profile to put political affiliation but many people don't answer it. Just like they don't answer if they have or want kids.

I feel funny asking them who they voted for or their politics before we've met. Maybe I should though.

So swinging from one topic to another without anything deep or fun is ok? Like if I get home from the date and I can remember talking about all the basic bio info and then also her favorite food, how she got along with her siblings growing up, what kind of work she does, etc but we never really laughed or talked about anything really exciting.

unlike 15 years ago…politics are a much bigger divide. In the past I’ve dated peop,e who might be considered of a different political party but when talking to them there was a lot of agreement on things. Now the rift is just to big.

in questions…

ask about family and if they have siblings, do they live local, are they married and have kids. Asking how there relationships are you don’t want to get into.

if their family is local to them they likely see them frequently and get together with them. If they aren’t local to them this could mean a few different things on them not being close, Carter choices for e them to move, or sometime they want to move back home.

asking them music and movies and activities they like are safe.

there are other questions based on your ages/ timelines like if you are around 30 things like buying a house and having kids is important

talking About f7n things they do or places they have travelled to can be good things.

this is something I would screen for before even getting to the point of meeting.

a way to get there is talk about current events and where they stand on things. There are numerous events going on now. Feeling on current events show their political views.

the questions as well as other questions you need to phrase them in ways that get honest answers and not be PC or them giving you responses they feel you want to hear.

November 24, 2021

16 hours ago, Foxhall said:

I felt my chances improved on dates once I had the mindset "well women actually like me usually" so that was a good mindset to have before I sat down with any new lady,

It sounds so simple but you're right. She's on the date because she likes you. So you don't have to try to prove that you're worthy in any way, she already thinks you are. At that point it's just about if you are a fit for each other. So there shouldn't be any type of anxiety or angst that either has to try to make the other like them.

I say the above assuming that we're talking about two mature adults. Some people you go out with do have an idea that the other person has to impress them. Have to press the eject button when you see those ones.

Edited November 24, 2021 by dramafreezone

November 24, 2021

16 hours ago, Ami1uwant said:

a way to get there is talk about current events and where they stand on things. There are numerous events going on now. Feeling on current events show their political views.

the questions as well as other questions you need to phrase them in ways that get honest answers and not be PC or them giving you responses they feel you want to hear.

I've always avoided current events when talking on a 1st date, but like you said that could be a good screen. With my friends (same political party) it's fun for me to talk about what's going on and learn from their perspectives. I remember in one of the primaries we backed different candidates and neither one of us got upset with each other and it's almost been a running joke with us. For me there are some issues though where I get so passionate about that I could never date someone with the opposite viewpoint. I have enough trouble being friends with some of those people when they bring it up.

4 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

It sounds so simple but you're right. She's on the date because she likes you. So you don't have to try to prove that you're worthy in any way, she already thinks you are. At that point it's just about if you are a fit for each other.

I guess the question is how do you tell if the other person is a good fit for you? I have numerous deal breakers like smoking or politics, but am trying to think about what things would show she is right. Seems like it's much harder to dismiss people for things you don't like than to say "yes, she's the one" based on a conversation. I've met women from OLD who "check all the right boxes" as far as the dealbreakers and having common interests but they seem abrasive or are rude.

On my 1st date with the women I ended up dating for months we spent a long time talking about movies and just seemed to "get" each other and I just remember we were both laughing a lot during the date. I'm just trying to figure out how to recapture that kind of feeling.

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