I think things are going downhill even faster now.

[snowboy91]

Hi LS, it's been a while since I've popped in here. Past year and a half has been a complex mess of new jobs in different cities and trying to make it work with Covid lockdowns - I won't go into the details about all that, but long story short is my GF and I decided to do a LDR working in different cities to start our careers. That lasted all of about a week when a lockdown was called in the city where I was working - I raced across to my GF's city thinking it was going to be a couple of weeks... it's been way longer.

For quite a while I've been unhappy with the level of physical intimacy in the relationship, but I believed it was otherwise fine. I've noticed in the past month that she's been stressed with work and spends most of the time talking about work, and very little else. What it means is from my point of view, I spend most of the day stressing over my own job, and the rest of the evening absorbing her stress. I've brought this up, and she's said she will work on talking less about work.

But I've also noticed she's been quite cold toward me - she doesn't seem to appreciate any displays of affection from me (hugs, kisses, etc), date nights often seem rushed, and it sometimes seems like she's trying to create more distance between us. I'm really starting to notice this as a serious issue in the past two weeks or so, but this could have been a problem without me noticing for way longer, and I've just been putting up with it the whole time.

• We've had discussions about her lack of sex drive - she's put it down to the pill, but has not made any effort to explore options to improve it.
• She's had anxious thoughts and nightmares about me cheating on her.
• I've hit levels of compassion fatigue where I've literally had to switch off from conversations when they revolve around her work. I want to be the good partner and listen, but there's only so much stress I can handle.
• I've begun to realise I've always been a people pleaser in my romantic relationships - somehow I just fall into a pattern where I feel I need to be the "model" partner (doing as my partner asks, meeting their needs according to their love languages), but there's always been a part of me that craves independence and freedom from what feels at times like an obligation. I know it seems horrible to say it feels like an obligation because a relationship shouldn't feel like that, but I think it's hard to see it otherwise if I don't feel I'm getting anything from it.
• I'm also brilliant at avoiding discussions about things I'm unhappy with in a relationship. I always just think I'm being unreasonable and just put up with it. Or I just tell myself that a lack of affection is just how relationships go over time.

I think what I'm after is support more than anything else. I should have opened up the conversation with her a long time ago. Now I'm just exhausted and I don't think she's noticed.

Thanks for reading.

[introverted1]

Do you love her?

Sounds like she either has no coping mechanisms for stress or she is low drive or she is not romantically interested in you any more.  None of these adds up to anything good.

I think you need to lay out your concerns with her and then see what she does (not what she says). If things change to where you are happy, great. If not, you need to ask yourself whether you want a lifetime of being with someone who can't manage her own stress (which sounds like ordinary stuff that we all deal with) and shuts down sexually.  If the loss of sex drive is truly due to the pill then perhaps you need to discuss a different form of birth control - condoms, IUD, diaphragm, etc.

Bottom line is that you are not married and now is the time to assess long term compatibility. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, snowboy91 said:

 my GF and I decided to do a LDR working in different cities to start our careers. 

For quite a while I've been unhappy with the level of physical intimacy in the relationship, but I believed it was otherwise fine.

Sorry this is happening.  Do you live together? Take the all the other incompatibilities and unhappiness into account and this could provide an exit ramp for each of you to free yourselves and find happiness individually.

[spiderowl]

11 hours ago, snowboy91 said:

Hi LS, it's been a while since I've popped in here. Past year and a half has been a complex mess of new jobs in different cities and trying to make it work with Covid lockdowns - I won't go into the details about all that, but long story short is my GF and I decided to do a LDR working in different cities to start our careers. That lasted all of about a week when a lockdown was called in the city where I was working - I raced across to my GF's city thinking it was going to be a couple of weeks... it's been way longer.

For quite a while I've been unhappy with the level of physical intimacy in the relationship, but I believed it was otherwise fine. I've noticed in the past month that she's been stressed with work and spends most of the time talking about work, and very little else. What it means is from my point of view, I spend most of the day stressing over my own job, and the rest of the evening absorbing her stress. I've brought this up, and she's said she will work on talking less about work.

But I've also noticed she's been quite cold toward me - she doesn't seem to appreciate any displays of affection from me (hugs, kisses, etc), date nights often seem rushed, and it sometimes seems like she's trying to create more distance between us. I'm really starting to notice this as a serious issue in the past two weeks or so, but this could have been a problem without me noticing for way longer, and I've just been putting up with it the whole time.

• We've had discussions about her lack of sex drive - she's put it down to the pill, but has not made any effort to explore options to improve it.
• She's had anxious thoughts and nightmares about me cheating on her.
• I've hit levels of compassion fatigue where I've literally had to switch off from conversations when they revolve around her work. I want to be the good partner and listen, but there's only so much stress I can handle.
• I've begun to realise I've always been a people pleaser in my romantic relationships - somehow I just fall into a pattern where I feel I need to be the "model" partner (doing as my partner asks, meeting their needs according to their love languages), but there's always been a part of me that craves independence and freedom from what feels at times like an obligation. I know it seems horrible to say it feels like an obligation because a relationship shouldn't feel like that, but I think it's hard to see it otherwise if I don't feel I'm getting anything from it.
• I'm also brilliant at avoiding discussions about things I'm unhappy with in a relationship. I always just think I'm being unreasonable and just put up with it. Or I just tell myself that a lack of affection is just how relationships go over time.

I think what I'm after is support more than anything else. I should have opened up the conversation with her a long time ago. Now I'm just exhausted and I don't think she's noticed.

Thanks for reading.

If I understand correctly, you two are living together at present and have been stuck together a lot during the lockdown and any intervening periods.  You are probably weary of each other.

Having said the above, you do not seem very happy with her.  You are fed up of her imposing her stress on you because you feel stressed yourself and you are bored and switched off.

She is not interested in dealing with her lack of sex drive.

I am not sure why you are still together really apart from insecurities.  It sounds like you both need some space away from each other, at least, and maybe to drop the idea of making this relationship work.  Even during lockdown my daughter and her husband loved spending more time together and seem to dote on each other.

[snowboy91]

On 11/18/2021 at 10:31 PM, introverted1 said:

Do you love her?

Sounds like she either has no coping mechanisms for stress or she is low drive or she is not romantically interested in you any more.  None of these adds up to anything good.

I think you need to lay out your concerns with her and then see what she does (not what she says). If things change to where you are happy, great. If not, you need to ask yourself whether you want a lifetime of being with someone who can't manage her own stress (which sounds like ordinary stuff that we all deal with) and shuts down sexually.  If the loss of sex drive is truly due to the pill then perhaps you need to discuss a different form of birth control - condoms, IUD, diaphragm, etc.

Bottom line is that you are not married and now is the time to assess long term compatibility. 

Out of the 3 options in bold - I think it's all 3. I've laid out concerns in the past (though I'm not always confident in doing so), but nothing changes long term. I'll ask for more physical affection and get more hugs for a week, and then it's back to the status quo. She'll tell me she'll work on her sex drive, but nothing changes. 

 

On 11/18/2021 at 11:36 PM, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening.  Do you live together? Take the all the other incompatibilities and unhappiness into account and this could provide an exit ramp for each of you to free yourselves and find happiness individually.

We've more or less been living together for 2.5 years out of a 3.5 year relationship.

 

On 11/19/2021 at 10:05 AM, spiderowl said:

If I understand correctly, you two are living together at present and have been stuck together a lot during the lockdown and any intervening periods.  You are probably weary of each other.

Having said the above, you do not seem very happy with her.  You are fed up of her imposing her stress on you because you feel stressed yourself and you are bored and switched off.

She is not interested in dealing with her lack of sex drive.

I am not sure why you are still together really apart from insecurities.  It sounds like you both need some space away from each other, at least, and maybe to drop the idea of making this relationship work.  Even during lockdown my daughter and her husband loved spending more time together and seem to dote on each other.

You raise a really good point. I got a little internally frustrated when I saw so many couples move in with each other really quickly and fall into little bubbles of bliss permanently. Like, why didn't that happen to me. The fact that I'm frustrated rather than in a bubble of bliss myself really says a lot. I didn't even get a sense my partner got the bubble of bliss feeling, she just started to rely on me to just listen to her rant about each day.

So in essence, yes I'm very weary. I'm exhausted. I highly doubt she's weary of me - if she is, she's really good at not showing it (I don't receive any criticism), and I can't think of what I'm doing wrong.

 

[elaine567]

4 minutes ago, snowboy91 said:

. I highly doubt she's weary of me

4 minutes ago, snowboy91 said:

'll ask for more physical affection and get more hugs for a week, and then it's back to the status quo. She'll tell me she'll work on her sex drive, but nothing changes. 

I do actually think she is weary of you.
Nothing changes because she doesn't want to be physically affectionate, nor does she want to have sex with you.
When people do not want to have sex, they reduce physical affection for fear it is misinterpreted as wanting sex. 

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, snowboy91 said:

 She'll tell me she'll work on her sex drive, but nothing changes. 

Of course nothing will change as long as she's on the pill. 

Tell her you've reached the end of your rope, she needs to meet with her gyno/doctor and find a different birth control. She needs to call for an appointment this week. IUD are amazing, they put it in and you forget about it for 5  years. It has a fraction of the hormones found in the pill. 

[Calmandfocused]

The things we fear the most are the things we need to do to help us. In your situation this couldn’t be more true. 
 

So what’s the worst that could happen if you sit down with her and clearly communicate what you want and what your needs are? That you’ll lose her? That you’ll be single? Surely your fear of staying as you are is greater than the alternative right? - something for you to think about. 
 

If you ignore  how you feel the relationship will come to an inevitable end. Yes, maybe avoidance will mean that you’ll live in misery a bit longer, but the outcome will be the same. And the end will harder. It always is the longer it goes on. 
 

Your fear is not serving your purpose right now. You know what you need to do. 

[basil67]

Hi @snowboy91 I've been wondering how you're doing.    Saddened to hear that you're not doing so great.

My bet is that her anxious thoughts and nightmares about you cheating is her subconscious telling her that all is not well with the relationship.   If she used to have a good sex drive when on the pill, it's unlikely that the pill is the cause.   Thing is, most problems inside the bedroom have their origins outside the bedroom.  So the cause of the loss of intimacy is more likely because the relationship isn't so good anymore.   She's probably feeling it every bit as much as you are.   And to be honest, that she's so consumed by job issues isn't going to be very sexy feeling on her end either.  

Regarding her going on and on about work issues, I've had a tendency to do this in the past.  My husband made it very clear to me that I was complaining too much and that I either needed to either get a new job or to stop complaining.  Nope, he's never gunna get compassion fatigue    But it does make sense.   Taking it further, when you listen to her complaints, it provides a valve for her to let off steam....but when she's able to let off steam, it gives her the ability to keep going doing the same thing.   So effectively, listening to her complaints is enabling her behaviour.  

Have you ever allowed yourself to question whether you still love her?   When it's a long term relationship, it's easy to tell ourselves that we still love our partner....but how often do we question whether or not it's still true? 

Don't be afraid to be a little more selfish 

[chillii]

Yeah agree with bas.There's all those things going on for her and the nightmares ldk how often she's having them but that sort of thing can really effect people too. Stress and fears are an absolute love and romance, affection, killer, so is the day to day if it just becomes all about all that as bas said. lt's hard to tell if your still actually in love first of all though, and whether or not she is with you too but just settled in too much and become too caught up in her bs or what, so that'd be the first thing you need to figure out.ps , have heard also of the pill killing things too for some , add in the rest.

From there yeah if the love is still there, again agree with bas, you've gotta talk about things and also lay down the law with the over whinging and what have you too. Over 3yrs though , maybe this is just her settled in , only you can figure that out.

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by chillii

[snowboy91]

Thanks everyone again for your responses.

On 11/21/2021 at 4:13 AM, Calmandfocused said:

The things we fear the most are the things we need to do to help us. In your situation this couldn’t be more true. 
 

So what’s the worst that could happen if you sit down with her and clearly communicate what you want and what your needs are? That you’ll lose her? That you’ll be single? Surely your fear of staying as you are is greater than the alternative right? - something for you to think about. 
 

If you ignore  how you feel the relationship will come to an inevitable end. Yes, maybe avoidance will mean that you’ll live in misery a bit longer, but the outcome will be the same. And the end will harder. It always is the longer it goes on. 
 

Your fear is not serving your purpose right now. You know what you need to do. 

Hard questions that I don't have easy answers for. I think I'm just not mentally prepared for the end of the relationship - the idea of it hurts like crazy. But staying in a relationship with no physical intimacy or connection is making me increasingly frustrated, and the compassion fatigue is really draining and I don't know if I can handle it much longer. I'm feeling cornered - either I talk about things or I start to fall apart and check out of the relationship which makes me look just as bad.

You're right about fear though. It's a major driving emotion for me at the moment. It's largely out of worry for her - she doesn't deserve to be broken up with after everything she's been though. But perhaps I need to consider that my own emotions count too. 

 

On 11/21/2021 at 8:04 AM, basil67 said:

Hi @snowboy91 I've been wondering how you're doing.    Saddened to hear that you're not doing so great.

My bet is that her anxious thoughts and nightmares about you cheating is her subconscious telling her that all is not well with the relationship.   If she used to have a good sex drive when on the pill, it's unlikely that the pill is the cause.   Thing is, most problems inside the bedroom have their origins outside the bedroom.  So the cause of the loss of intimacy is more likely because the relationship isn't so good anymore.   She's probably feeling it every bit as much as you are.   And to be honest, that she's so consumed by job issues isn't going to be very sexy feeling on her end either.  

Regarding her going on and on about work issues, I've had a tendency to do this in the past.  My husband made it very clear to me that I was complaining too much and that I either needed to either get a new job or to stop complaining.  Nope, he's never gunna get compassion fatigue    But it does make sense.   Taking it further, when you listen to her complaints, it provides a valve for her to let off steam....but when she's able to let off steam, it gives her the ability to keep going doing the same thing.   So effectively, listening to her complaints is enabling her behaviour.  

Have you ever allowed yourself to question whether you still love her?   When it's a long term relationship, it's easy to tell ourselves that we still love our partner....but how often do we question whether or not it's still true? 

Don't be afraid to be a little more selfish 

Hi Basil, great to hear from you too!

I do get the sense that her subconscious is saying something like that - but I can rarely get any specific information about what exactly is happening in the dreams or what her thoughts are. She writes a lot of things off as "anxious thoughts" and gives no detail as to what those thoughts are - for a long time I just thought she didn't want to burden me with more worries, but something just feels off now, like she's avoiding telling me something. I could also be completely off base, so I suppose that's why communication is critical, in case I've already gone too far down the rabbit hole.

Have I questioned if I still love her? Yes, all the time. I always assumed (and have heard) that love feels different when it's a long term relationship. I don't want to just leave when the new relationship energy dies out. But I've always found it difficult to tell between stable, long-term love and a dying relationship. This is only my second serious relationship, so I'm so far behind others my age. 

[basil67]

I don't suppose she's seeing a counsellor or psychologist to help sort out her issues?  I know what the wait lists are like at present, so I don't want to assume.

Fully agree that it's hard to know if you still love someone.   I remember when I left my first husband, the epiphany about the fact that I don't love him anymore came AFTER I'd left.  Would have been so much handier if it had come early.  But I think that the key to it was that I realised a) I felt relief to have gone and b) I didn't miss him.   Do you think that you'd feel either of these things if you left?

One thing for sure, you'd be wise to talk to her about how you're feeling.  That you can't sustain the role of being who she vents to.  Honestly, I'd suggest you take a leaf from my husband's book on that one.   The other thing is to let her know that you're questioning the relationship.   You never know, she might also be questioning it and hasn't voiced it either.   If you don't voice your concerns, they can't be addressed.

 

 

[snowboy91]

Quick update on a brief discussion from last night (I was tired so I didn't get to really say much myself), which could explain what is happening. She's started to warm slightly emotionally toward me again, but she's mentioned a couple of times recently that physical affection isn't really her thing and she feels overwhelmed when I try and make out with her.

While I understand her point of view given she's had a rather traumatic childhood, this is a major difference compared to when we first got together. And I've come to realise just how important physical intimacy is to me in a relationship. It's always been that way, but I'm slowly starting to take ownership of it now that I've realised just how much the desire for physical intimacy varies between people. 

It could be that she's not really into me anymore, or that physical intimacy isn't a big deal to her in a relationship and she can find it overwhelming. Either way, there are some pretty huge barriers I have to overcome if I want to make this relationship work for me. The other question is if I should choose to make it work at all.

[smackie9]

It takes two to make it work. So have a discussion, lay out some timelines, and what actions should or are going to be taken by the both of you. Say if in a month things are not changing, then figure out what didn't work and try something else. But always have a deadline...if things are not better in the new year, end it.

[Els]

Hey OP, welcome back!

If she feels that the pill is causing the issue, then the course of action that would make the most sense would be to just discontinue it right away. In your place, rather than expecting her to do the legwork to look for alternatives, I would straight up tell her that you will be wearing condoms from now on. You cannot force her to quit the pill of course, but if she knows you are already going to be using alternative contraception, there is a good chance that she will stop of her own accord especially if she feels that it is causing side effects.

I don't think that we can help with anything until the pill issue is sorted unfortunately. It may or may not be a red herring, but there's no way to know until she stops. Some women really are affected HUGELY by the pill, it doesn't just affect their sex drives but also their mood, their feelings towards their partner, etc. I am very lucky to not have these side affects, but I've definitely heard of people who've gotten them all.

Best of luck!

[Els]

On 11/20/2021 at 11:56 PM, Gaeta said:

Of course nothing will change as long as she's on the pill. 

Tell her you've reached the end of your rope, she needs to meet with her gyno/doctor and find a different birth control. She needs to call for an appointment this week. IUD are amazing, they put it in and you forget about it for 5  years. It has a fraction of the hormones found in the pill. 

Birth control is not solely her responsibility... he can take responsibility for it too.

[basil67]

Is there a direct correlation between her starting the pill and losing her sex drive?  

[snowboy91]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

Is there a direct correlation between her starting the pill and losing her sex drive?  

Hard to tell. She's been taking it since she was 14 (for excessively heavy periods) so there hasn't been a significant amount of time in her life where she wasn't on the pill. I think there's a fear that there will be problems with heavy periods returning if she stops taking it. And that's the same reason the copper IUD (non-hormone based) is probably not an option for her.

3 hours ago, Elswyth said:

Hey OP, welcome back!

If she feels that the pill is causing the issue, then the course of action that would make the most sense would be to just discontinue it right away. In your place, rather than expecting her to do the legwork to look for alternatives, I would straight up tell her that you will be wearing condoms from now on. You cannot force her to quit the pill of course, but if she knows you are already going to be using alternative contraception, there is a good chance that she will stop of her own accord especially if she feels that it is causing side effects.

I don't think that we can help with anything until the pill issue is sorted unfortunately. It may or may not be a red herring, but there's no way to know until she stops. Some women really are affected HUGELY by the pill, it doesn't just affect their sex drives but also their mood, their feelings towards their partner, etc. I am very lucky to not have these side affects, but I've definitely heard of people who've gotten them all.

Best of luck!

Thanks! 

In the past I haven't been all that confident using condoms as the sole contraceptive measure, considering they often break, slip, etc. But I guess some people do that. 

[chillii]

The more you talk about it op the more it sounds as if she wants all the communicative, support and the having someone side of a relationship but she's more so just lost interest and feelings in the other parts.

Edited November 26, 2021 by chillii

[basil67]

I think you're onto something there @chillii   Seems to be a lot of take and not a lot of give.

[Els]

9 hours ago, snowboy91 said:

In the past I haven't been all that confident using condoms as the sole contraceptive measure, considering they often break, slip, etc. But I guess some people do that. 

If the main concern is failure rates... when used and stored according to instructions, male condoms are very, very effective. https://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/best-effective-birth-control The ideal use failure rate of male condoms is 2%, as opposed to 1% for the BC pill. And honestly, it's just easier to achieve ideal use with the condom than the pill, because your daily activities cannot affect the condom's effectiveness, whereas they do affect the pill's (e.g. if she has a bout of food poisoning, or takes certain medications, or eats certain fruits, it will affect the pill's absorption). Slippage mostly happens when people don't size correctly and don't apply and remove at the right time, and breakage mostly happens if lube is not used. So if this is your concern, I think it would help for you to talk to a doctor or a planned parenthood advisor about it.

But...

Quote

She's been taking it since she was 14 (for excessively heavy periods) so there hasn't been a significant amount of time in her life where she wasn't on the pill. I think there's a fear that there will be problems with heavy periods returning if she stops taking it.

If she needs it for period control, then there really isn't all that much that you can do about it except talk to her and tell her that something needs to change, AND that you are happy to handle contraception if she wants to try going off the pill. Then the onus is on her to talk to HER doctor about other solutions for her periods, or a therapist for managing her mental health. In that case, you would have done everything that you can feasibly do, and the ball is in her court. If she refuses to pick it up or otherwise engage... I'd bail if I were you, honestly.

[Acacia98]

@OP, I think the advice you've gotten so far is pretty insightful.

Just wanted to add that, in my personal experience of this kind of dynamic (someone dumping all their stress on me everytime we interact as if I'm some kind of unpaid therapist), the other person (whether significant other, friend, or relative) tended to be self-centered, which made a lousy match for my excessively empathetic & people-pleasing tendencies.

It was not possible to salvage those relationships. I have no idea whether it's possible or even desirable for you to salvage yours (only you can say that). If you do decide to try and salvage it, I suggest that you set a limit for the amount of effort you are willing to expend without any positive results. Otherwise, you will eventually suffer some serious emotional burnout. If the relationship does end, I encourage you to take an extended break from dating.

[dramafreezone]

 

On 11/24/2021 at 7:51 PM, snowboy91 said:

Quick update on a brief discussion from last night (I was tired so I didn't get to really say much myself), which could explain what is happening. She's started to warm slightly emotionally toward me again, but she's mentioned a couple of times recently that physical affection isn't really her thing and she feels overwhelmed when I try and make out with her.

 

Yeah I don't buy that.  It's not her thing *with you.*  There's some guy in her past that she was very affectionate towards, and perhaps that didn't work out to her advantage so she's put up a wall.

Or, she's just lost attraction to you.  It happens in most relationships at some point.  Maybe just try backing off a bit and giving her space.  I think a lot of times GFs want space just to see that they can have space when they ask for it.  In any event relationships need space to breathe.  Too much closeness can smother one or both people, and the attraction is gone for good at that point.

[snowboy91]

OK, new update - we had a discussion a couple of days ago which addresses physical affection.

It started with a mention of whether hand holding did anything for me (short story - for me, in the absence of any other affection, it does nothing, feels a bit school age to me). The conversation broadened to my sex drive, which she asks about every couple of months - I get the sense she thought it was only high on the odd occasion when it's actually high pretty consistently.

It was one of the more constructive conversation we've had about this topic to date. I don't think she fully understands my point of view, but it's a lot better than where we were. She's agreed to go to a doctor to discuss contraceptive options, with the explicit purpose of finding something that doesn't lower her libido. She brought it up again today, so it's clearly on her mind. She has mentioned though that there is still a chance she just may be asexual, since she says she's never really had a sex drive at any point in her life (as mentioned, probably explained by pill use since puberty).

So overall my hope is still that lack of drive plus habit results in a lack of physical affection. If she follows through with doing something, things may improve. We're also moving back to our home city in the next week (if the new covid variant doesn't shut everything down on us), which should be better all round.

Edited November 30, 2021 by snowboy91

[Wiseman2]

On 11/24/2021 at 10:51 PM, snowboy91 said:

, there are some pretty huge barriers I have to overcome if I want to make this relationship work for me. 

At some point you'll need to realize you're not compatible.

Right now you're trying to fix and change her getting up in her gyn business way too much.

It doesn't matter what contraception she uses. It's none of your business. What matters is she's not attracted to you.

Let go. Accept that people are different. That in this case, she simply doesn't feel that sexual or affectionate about you.

All you're doing with this armchair gyn nonsense is wearing each other down.

Set yourselves free. Find someone whose sexual and attraction level matches yours.

When you need to fix and change someone this much to the point of playing armchair gyn, it's not working.