It's complicated - insight needed

January 8, 2022

1 hour ago, TamBuktu said:

Yeah we are 10 min apart and when i felt sick or needed him - he has been over in an instant.

Again, more proof he isn't married. This just keeps adding up.

January 8, 2022

Does it matter if he’s married or not? - I don’t think so. The conclusion is that he won’t have a serious/official relationship with her, that’s all. I know men (I was involved with one myself) that were married and left the W for the mistress. I know men that were with girlfriends long-term and wouldn’t leave the girlfriend for the mistress so it really doesn’t matter. What matters is what he does. Your guy, @TamBuktudoes nothing. He’s coastin’ along happily as long as you let him.
See it for what it is. I know you want a child. Why not focus on that? Get pregnant, if you feel you can handle pregnancy & motherhood w/o a partner. You’ve frozen your eggs, right? You’ve got everything you need. Relying on this guy IMO is a lost cause. He won’t step up to the plate, not even if you have his child. You don’t need him! Cut the cord. Seriously. That will make him do some thinking. And you will then know for sure where he stands. So cut the cord, do your thing, and wait how he reacts. He doesn’t react? You’ve got your answer. He reacts? Evaluate his approach. ——-> you’ve got your answer ……. You should have run out of patience for his dilly-dallying around by now

January 8, 2022

5 minutes ago, Pumpernickel said:

Does it matter if he’s married or not?

Yes and no.

Yes, at this point it matters because if it's discovered he is not, then she knows he's been lying and scamming her for 3 years, using as an excuse to avoid committing to her.

That is huge!

No in that either way, married or not, they are not committed, he comes and goes as he pleases, coasting along.

January 8, 2022

12 minutes ago, Pumpernickel said:

I know you want a child. Why not focus on that?

She stated numerous times that she won't be a single mother. Her heart is set on this man.

January 8, 2022

Yeah this guy is sooooo full of crap. Men who love you WANT to spend the night, marry you, take you away on weekends.

It is not adding up that you guys are "out" to all of your friends and family (but obviously yours doesn't know he's "married") but he can't stay over. Didn't you at one point suspect that he wasn't legally married because he might have a common law marriage instead?

I'm surprised you want to have THIS man's baby when you can't even verify basic truths about him. "Doesn't want to set a precedent"? FOR WHOM?

January 8, 2022

24 minutes ago, stillafool said:

She stated numerous times that she won't be a single mother. Her heart is set on this man.

She wants the fairytale ending…

The challenge being, most fairytales don’t start with a passive, conflict avoidant, non-communicative, non-committed man who is married to another woman -

Edited January 8, 2022 by BaileyB

January 8, 2022

3 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

The challenge being, most fairytales don’t start with a conflict avoidant, non-communicative, non-committed man who is married to another woman.

Conflict avoidant, non-communicative, non-committed men don't get married, to anyone.

There is more pointing to him NOT being married than there is pointing to him being married.

Hopefully Tam will confirm one way or the other - knowledge is power and the more knowledge she has, the better and wiser choices she will make.

January 8, 2022

20 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Conflict avoidant, non-communicative, non-committed men don't get married, to anyone.

There is more pointing to him NOT being married than there is pointing to him being married.

Hopefully Tam will confirm one way or the other - knowledge is power and the more knowledge she has, the better and wiser choices she will make.

Right, but she needs to start wanting to know. To me it seems like she’s afraid of the truth, and it’s easier for her to just believe his vague stories.

January 8, 2022

3 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

We started with casual dates, no sex. Developed a friendship. Start seeing each other on weekends. Started talking every day. Started seeing each other every other day. Turned sexual. Met families. Made friends. Started seeing each other every day. Started talking about future children. No steady progress you say ?

I am going to say no. These are all mechanical and transactional. I also find that you are a bit vague on “meeting friends and family”. I know all my partners friends and family and it would be bloody awkward if he turned out he had a wife.

do none of his friends and fAmily know he has a wife? This makes no sense, you claim to know them well and share inside jokes with his wife’s mother. This man is introducing you as his girlfriend and partner to his family, friends and work colleagues?

I think the bit people are struggling with is this concept he will be there for you in an instant. Yet he can never stay overnight. I had to overnight with my partner in the ICU when his mum had a stroke. We went away together to bury her in her country home town. He had to stay at mine for four weeks long when my mum died. Then he came with me to my home town and clean out the house. He drove me home, two days and nights to bring home the last of my parents life times.

we go on holidays together, we explore and build new memories, collectively.

we own a house together and have significant legal and financial commitments. We build emotional intimacy and commitment. We made commitments after a year of being together. People do this when they want to.

you don’t know much about this guy unless he decides you should know.

love is safe and secure. I genuinely don’t understand how anyone can call a relationship love when they are made to feel insecure. It doesn’t make you question, analysis or wonder where the hell he goes at night.

but I am not sure this has the depth you think it does. Why don’t you go to therapy with him? You still seek answers to lots of questions.

I think people posting in this thread find that most concerning. Your love isn’t honest or transparently

January 8, 2022

Tam, how would your mutual friends feel if they knew he has a wife? That’s another awkward piece. You cannot have genuine relationships with these mutuals if you are both keeping this secret. It would honestly be weird if I were friends with a couple and I found out he was married to another woman and he went home to her every night.

January 8, 2022

Hi TamBuktu, I was wondering how things were progressing. You had been posting so much, and then went silent. I haven’t completely caught up….(have read a few recent pages and skimmed the rest), but the last I heard, if I am remembering correctly….he was planning on spending Thanksgiving and a few days after with you, and staying over with you. This would have been a first. And you were curious/interested/excited to see how that went. Did this happen? Did he stay overnight and spend a good chunk of the Thanksgiving holiday with you? And how did it go?

(Edit) I just read back more carefully…and it looks like I remembered wrong. But you did say that you’d hoped you’d be planning on spending more time together in future holidays. Of which we have had two pretty major ones. Did anything change?

Edited January 8, 2022 by Veronica73

January 8, 2022

Tam, I just had a brief re-read of this very long thread and found your post wherein you said he could not admit to you he was legally married, now or ever.

And that you had searched public records in your state and there was NO record of him ever being married.

Combined with all his other questionable behaviors, this all points to this man NOT being married, hello.

So what are you going to do now? Now that you know he most likely was telling you this tall tale as an excuse to not move forward with you and keep you at a safe distance?

Will you confront him or continue with the charade?

This is so sad. Three years.

January 8, 2022

@poppyfieldswhen this thread was closed tam was asking if anyone knew how to find out if someone is married. When the thread started, she said she was dating a married man, then it somehow morphed into not knowing if he was married, being unable to ask him, and needing people on a relationship advice forum to help her understand public records.

@TamBuktui still don't understand what you mean by "another round of ivf." you are 37 years old and your boyfriend will be available in a mere 6 months. you can get pregnant the traditional way. you already have frozen embryos, i don't know why you need more frozen embryos. Tam I think most posters find it concerning that your story constantly changes. You are highly prone to create implausible details and "lol" than to face reality. And btw, all the "lol" and references to laughing in your posts is antagonistic to other posters. Your fight to get this man to commit is between you and him, but you act like it is between you and posters here on LS.

It seems your belief in his love for you, and the fate of you two to live happily ever after, is simply not "falsifiable," as we say in research design. There is no evidence good enough for you to stop buying into your hypothesis.

The only advice you will accept is advice on how to secure your fairy tale with this dude, and the only advice posters have to give you is to abandon ship now before you go any further:(

January 9, 2022

16 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Yes and no.

Yes, at this point it matters because if it's discovered he is not, then she knows he's been lying and scamming her for 3 years, using as an excuse to avoid committing to her.

That is huge!

No in that either way, married or not, they are not committed, he comes and goes as he pleases, coasting along.

I think the problem is that if it turns out that he is really married then she will think he was honest about everything.

January 9, 2022

14 hours ago, IrinaM said:

@poppyfieldswhen this thread was closed tam was asking if anyone knew how to find out if someone is married. When the thread started, she said she was dating a married man, then it somehow morphed into not knowing if he was married, being unable to ask him, and needing people on a relationship advice forum to help her understand public records.

@TamBuktui still don't understand what you mean by "another round of ivf." you are 37 years old and your boyfriend will be available in a mere 6 months. you can get pregnant the traditional way. you already have frozen embryos, i don't know why you need more frozen embryos. Tam I think most posters find it concerning that your story constantly changes. You are highly prone to create implausible details and "lol" than to face reality. And btw, all the "lol" and references to laughing in your posts is antagonistic to other posters. Your fight to get this man to commit is between you and him, but you act like it is between you and posters here on LS.

It seems your belief in his love for you, and the fate of you two to live happily ever after, is simply not "falsifiable," as we say in research design. There is no evidence good enough for you to stop buying into your hypothesis.

The only advice you will accept is advice on how to secure your fairy tale with this dude, and the only advice posters have to give you is to abandon ship now before you go any further:(

@poppyfields as much as I want to believe he is not, the person who is the suspected wife lives in his house and still have demands from him.. Only thing I can't confirm it if it is a "regular" marriage or common law arrangement but she is there and he is afraid to tell her to move her butt out.

Yeah it is very unusual how he behaves with her and vice versa but I won't be surprised if it is part of an arrangement they have had over the years. It is definitely not a typical relationship but it is still on our way

@IrinaM I am afraid most people here can't relate however it is not how it works how a large percent of women especially 35+. The chances to have a successful genetically normal pregnancy precipitously drop after 35, especially 36-38, by 42 the chance to have a genetically normal pregnancy is less then 10%. Even with IVF 3 genetically tested embryos only give a confidence of 95% for a single live birth. Regardless of what he does or doesn't do I am not going to ignore the reality and hope for the best, when it comes to something irreversible.

And yes, I am primarily looking for advice how to secure future with him. What is the point otherwise - to be told it can fail? I know that already. If I am to give an analogy it is like an overweight woman going to a specialized store to get a perfect dress for her and being told well just lose the weight. Most people seeking advice are not here to hear the absolutely obvious (and most negative possible) scenarios.

January 9, 2022

16 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Tam, I just had a brief re-read of this very long thread and found your post wherein you said he could not admit to you he was legally married, now or ever.

And that you had searched public records in your state and there was NO record of him ever being married.

Combined with all his other questionable behaviors, this all points to this man NOT being married, hello.

So what are you going to do now? Now that you know he most likely was telling you this tall tale as an excuse to not move forward with you and keep you at a safe distance?

Will you confront him or continue with the charade?

This is so sad. Three years.

See my post above but unfortunately the woman in suspect exists.

The good news - he definitely opened up on the kids topic. He said that he is worried of his age but he will be more worried to lose the opportunity to be a father. He said I made him think and we'll make it work. I hope he's genuine - I haven't asked for that particular conversation.

January 9, 2022

17 hours ago, Veronica73 said:

Hi TamBuktu, I was wondering how things were progressing. You had been posting so much, and then went silent. I haven’t completely caught up….(have read a few recent pages and skimmed the rest), but the last I heard, if I am remembering correctly….he was planning on spending Thanksgiving and a few days after with you, and staying over with you. This would have been a first. And you were curious/interested/excited to see how that went. Did this happen? Did he stay overnight and spend a good chunk of the Thanksgiving holiday with you? And how did it go?

(Edit) I just read back more carefully…and it looks like I remembered wrong. But you did say that you’d hoped you’d be planning on spending more time together in future holidays. Of which we have had two pretty major ones. Did anything change?

Hi Veronica!

We spend Thanksgiving together! Previous years he'd be gone at prime time (although we still celebrated), this year it was all about us. I even felt bit of guilt because he blew family to be with me but whatever. Christmas Eve and Christmas Day we spend together as well. He has always been super thoughtful with gifts etc, not big but on point with things related to experiences we had, this year was no different. The difference was how much more time we spend together. NYE was the unfortunate exception. He had to go back home for a bit, then we met again after midnight. Still left a bid of sour taste that he's still splitting time, the other holidays were perfect.

So in that aspect, we made a definite progress, definite change. Staying over - not yet. I'm hoping there won't be a need to do sleepovers but we can move to joined life soon enough.

January 9, 2022

17 hours ago, RebeccaR said:

Tam, how would your mutual friends feel if they knew he has a wife? That’s another awkward piece. You cannot have genuine relationships with these mutuals if you are both keeping this secret. It would honestly be weird if I were friends with a couple and I found out he was married to another woman and he went home to her every night.

Rebecca they are in no place to judge. One of them keeps sharing her OM was the love of her life and the other one moved in with her now husband before being divorced with her ex husband. Things like this are only awkward if we make them awkward. They happen all the time, I'm not saying it's a good thing but it's part of life. I guess people are too avoidant to clean cut relationships...

And I have decided I am never going to share about the affair beginnings. If he wants to share one day, I'll leave it up to him. Only friends I share with about his "situation" are the ones that haven't met him in person. I don't want to put him in a spot of judgement. My family does know thought and although there was a shock factor initially, they are in peace with it now.

January 9, 2022

18 hours ago, ufo8mycat said:

I am going to say no. These are all mechanical and transactional. I also find that you are a bit vague on “meeting friends and family”. I know all my partners friends and family and it would be bloody awkward if he turned out he had a wife.

do none of his friends and fAmily know he has a wife? This makes no sense, you claim to know them well and share inside jokes with his wife’s mother. This man is introducing you as his girlfriend and partner to his family, friends and work colleagues?

I think the bit people are struggling with is this concept he will be there for you in an instant. Yet he can never stay overnight. I had to overnight with my partner in the ICU when his mum had a stroke. We went away together to bury her in her country home town. He had to stay at mine for four weeks long when my mum died. Then he came with me to my home town and clean out the house. He drove me home, two days and nights to bring home the last of my parents life times.

we go on holidays together, we explore and build new memories, collectively.

we own a house together and have significant legal and financial commitments. We build emotional intimacy and commitment. We made commitments after a year of being together. People do this when they want to.

you don’t know much about this guy unless he decides you should know.

love is safe and secure. I genuinely don’t understand how anyone can call a relationship love when they are made to feel insecure. It doesn’t make you question, analysis or wonder where the hell he goes at night.

but I am not sure this has the depth you think it does. Why don’t you go to therapy with him? You still seek answers to lots of questions.

I think people posting in this thread find that most concerning. Your love isn’t honest or transparently

At some point we will go to therapy, not immediately.

I don't know how friendship, emotional and physical intimacy is mechanical and transactional.

Personally I am not looking for financial commitments of any sort, and that's something we have discussed. At our stage of life it will do both of us more harm than good to comingle properties, mortgages etc. And that to me is highly transactional anyway.

Common memories - sure. The number of trips we have taken, albeit local, is more than what I've done compared to the decade before meeting him. And once again I'm very fortunate to have done a copious amount of travel, moving around etc.. not something that i crave at this stage of life.

My next big thing is going to be having kids. He is getting on board with this - and if so, fully, I believe the rest (divorce, marriage) will follow as a natural part of the process.

January 9, 2022

21 hours ago, stillafool said:

And that is what he did Tam is put love first. He may have BEEN married to her at one point but I think Poppy has a good point he's not married to her now. It all adds up that he's not married and using that excuse to hold you and other women he's involved with at arm's length. He doesn't go home to a wife when he leaves your house. He goes to the woman he has sex with. He can spend weekends, holidays and as much time as necessary with you and other women because he doesn't have to answer to anyone. You've spent all this time hating a woman who only sees him as her maintenance man.

I mean I wish this is true but unfortunately it's not. There is someone in his house that calls herself a wife, regardless of whether they are married or common law. She has been there for over a decade and sadly that's easy to track.

Why she lets him be elsewhere every night, on major holidays, and only calls him for what you call maintenance man tasks - that's beyond me. I've never seen something like this before him but I see it now. Whatever it is sounds like a convenient arrangement for her - she is getting security, and for him - he is getting a title without the commitment... However I highly doubt it is fulfilling arrangement for any of them.

January 9, 2022

3 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

My next big thing is going to be having kids, I believe the rest (divorce, marriage) will follow as a natural part of the process.

He recently told you he's on the fence about it and "doesn't want to be in a walker when his kids graduate". Sadly you may have fun and trips and a connection, but if you want marriage and family, you'll have to end this and seek an honest single man who doesn't speak in vague riddles and isn't this passive-aggressive.

So now you're planning on having kids first then wait to see if he gets divorced?

January 9, 2022

21 hours ago, RebeccaR said:

You may be compatible, you may genuinely love each other, but you and he do not share the same goals. Period. Many relationships either end or remain unsatisfactory and unfulfilled for this exact reason. And thinking that this 50 year old man will change his goals to be in sync with yours is sadly delusional. Please put yourself and your needs first, just as he is setting his own boundaries putting his own needs first.

Yeah that's a big one. Only way to know is to see how he'd respond to the future kids topic. He brought it up for the first time, unprompted by me, yesterday, let see where this is going to go. I feel like this topic will determine the future of our relationship - if he's truly on board, he'll do something about it, otherwise he'll just string me along. I just need to wait and see at this point.

January 9, 2022

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

He recently told you he's on the fence about it and "doesn't want to be in a walker when his kids graduate". Sadly you may have fun and trips and a connection, but if you want marriage and family, you'll have to end this and seek an honest single man who doesn't speak in vague riddles and isn't this passive-aggressive.

So now you're planning on having kids first then wait to see if he gets divorced?

So the way how he presented it now is that he is worried about his age but more worried about the chance never to become a father.

I am very torn about the order of events.
- I can do another stim and freeze more embryos but that may make him wait even more under the umbrella of being secure
- I can attempt to get pregnant naturally but then he might back off and not pull through a divorce leaving me in very unfavorable situation
Or
-I can wait few months but then I might risk age-related decline of fertility, and he's also getting older and older.

I can't decide really, and I need to make a plan.

January 9, 2022

28 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

The chances to have a successful genetically normal pregnancy precipitously drop after 35, especially 36-38, by 42 the chance to have a genetically normal pregnancy is less then 10%.

This is completely UNTRUE.

Quote

For example, at age 35, your chances of having a baby with a chromosomal condition are 1 in 192. At age 40, your chances are 1 in 66.

Source: https://www.marchofdimes.org/baby/chromosomal-conditions.aspx

That works out to a 98.5% chance of a genetically normal baby at age 40.

January 9, 2022

1 minute ago, introverted1 said:

This is completely UNTRUE.

That works out to a 98.5% chance of a genetically normal baby at age 40.

Introverted - it's not how I calculate it and here is why:
- just do a search "aneuploidy by maternal age" - at 35 aneuploidy (wrong number of chromosomes) prevails in 50% of formed embryos, at 40 - in 90%
-the discrepancy with the numbers that you cite is because the majority of these embryos either never implant, or result in biochemical pregnancy loss before the woman even have a missed period
-only few aneuploidies (like trisomy 13, 18, 21, turners) can result in ongoing pregnancy and birth - and therefore the 1:192 and 1:50 numbers that you cited

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