It's complicated - insight needed

[TamBuktu]

5 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

So then why did you say yes when someone asked if you if he had another evening companion?

It was very clear the posters were not asking if he had a good guy friend he hung out with. I am sure you understood that. So you can't blame people for calling him out, when you yourself made it sound as though he's been unfaithful before. 

Unless you actually have no proof it was a man, and this is simply what your MM told you and you opted to believe him. Is that the case? 

Because people were wondering if he was going out before and I also had some fun with the word choice. Nothing to proof here yes I know the person.

[TamBuktu]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

My guess he is so scared because his wife does not have a clue and he is going to have to tell her.
The extent of his duplicity will be revealed to her and to you too.
His nice little arrangement will be turned on its head and he is facing a likely "ugly" divorce, probably moving home, another marriage and parenthood... IF he wants to keep you.
It is a daunting prospect and as he has not exactly bitten your hand off when you brought the subject up, I guess he will make excuse after excuse and ultimately renege.

Having a "mistress" is one thing, making that relationship "real" with all the complications and consequences that entails, is another thing all together...

I still cannot believe it she doesn’t have clue. As said I have been around a number of people who are “talkers”… unless she just refused to accept the obvious, which is even worse. How can he even confront her if that’s the case?!

Yeah his life will turn upside down and it will get worse before it gets better. I might sound a bit cocky but I think he also realizes what he’ll eventually lose if he reneges.. 

 

[Wiseman2]

16 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

 I also had some fun with the word choice. 

Isn't it difficult to have clear conversations with him if that's the case?

He doesn't have a difficult time ahead of him. However it seems as though you might when he prefers to stay married and you want to start a family with him.

It's not unusual for lovers to spend time together and the married one lies to the spouse about their whereabouts.

For example you claim he's the handyman in your building or his building? He may tell his wife he's working or whatever.

[TamBuktu]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

What makes it irrational and chaotic? It's rather straight forward, no?

You see each other, both enjoy the situation and both would rather not address the issue of his marriage.

What pressure is on you to confront him about divorcing her and marrying you? 

Do you mean you want more or you are starting to feel unhappy with things as they are?

Yes it is irrational because it’s in a huge disagreement with our perceived images of a “good girl”, never breaks the rule, and a “family man”, the needs of others come first. And here we are, it’s all about us.

It’s also chaotic, it’s not a stable state - so many things can rock the boat in the long run.

Elaine is right- the pressure is because although I am perfectly happy day to day, I want stability and a family soon. So far it worked as is because I wasn’t fully ready myself, now I am. Question is if he is. 

 

 

 

[TamBuktu]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

Isn't it difficult to have clear conversations with him if that's the case?

He doesn't have a difficult time ahead of him. However it seems as though you might when he prefers to stay married and you want to start a family with him.

It's not unusual for lovers to spend time together and the married one lies to the spouse about their whereabouts.

For example you claim he's the handyman in your building or his building? He may tell his wife he's working or whatever.

Yes it is difficult I said it many times.

He will after the divorce is initiated and his marriage with me+kids will be a huge life change, so far he’s just playing married living bachelor.

I just know as a woman I’d have picked the clues from an airplane plus there are a bunch of people talking… unless she’s actively closing her eyes, he doesn’t need to say a word and she’d still know. 

 

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

, I want stability and a family soon. So far it worked as is because I wasn’t fully ready myself, now I am. 

You can have that if you don't put your life on hold for a married man.

He's not ready if he's still happily married and goes home to his wife every night.

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

You can have that if you don't put your life on hold for a married man.

He's not ready if he's still happily married and goes home to his wife every night.

Lol we are going in circles here, “happily” is the last word I’d use, anyway all I was saying I wasn’t ready before, I’m ready now, and I need to figure if he’s ready - obviously his role in this act will be way more involved than mine..

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

 he’s just playing married living bachelor.

 I’d have picked the clues from an airplane plus there are a bunch of people talking… 

What does this mean?  Are these phrases idioms in your language? Perhaps they don't translate well?

[TamBuktu]

2 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

What does this mean?  Are these phrases idioms in your language? Perhaps they don't translate well?

What is unclear? He is living a life of a bachelor (well he was before we started dating), despite the “married on paper” state. When we marry this won’t be the case, so technically it will be his first (real) marriage.

Clues about us are everywhere. He is distracted, his family knows who he is hanging out with, there are female things in his house, car, pockets that do not belong to her, a woman not “seeing” this is 1) delusional or 2) acting delusional because it suits her role in the play

 

[elaine567]

2 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I just know as a woman I’d have picked the clues from an airplane plus there are a bunch of people talking… unless she’s actively closing her eyes, he doesn’t need to say a word and she’d still know. 

Yes but you KNOW he is cheating and you don't know the extent he goes to, to allay her fears.
MM are pretty good at schmoozing, persuasion, manipulation, gas lighting etc. all designed to cover up the cheating.
If he has always played the bachelor lifestyle then what has changed? Maybe nothing, she trusted him then and she may still do...
Married women are often quick to dismiss rumour and gossip about their husband, they know him better, he would never cheat, he doesn't have it in him...
 Who would want him anyway?
It suits you to think she knows and is giving permission and approves, but maybe not...

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

What is unclear? He is living a life of a bachelor (well he was before we started dating), despite the “married on paper” state. When we marry this won’t be the case, so technically it will be his first (real) marriage.

Clues about us are everywhere. He is distracted, his family knows who he is hanging out with, there are female things in his house, car, pockets that do not belong to her, a woman not “seeing” this is 1) delusional or 2) acting delusional because it suits her role in the play

 

 Ok I suppose a lot is lost in translation, word games, riddles, etc. 

[elaine567]

3 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

When we marry this won’t be the case, so technically it will be his first (real) marriage.

Have you ever considered he may not actually want that?
He is almost 50, why would he want to change the habits of a lifetime?
He lives like a bachelor even whilst married because he likes it.  No??? 

[TamBuktu]

I am realizing the following. She is so good at manipulating him, he might really think she doesn't know. However, her ploy doesn't fly with me- she is not an innocent girl but a bitter woman with a divorce and years of playing the field behind her back. It is just an act of manipulation that suits her lifestyle, she knows for sure, I am not sure if he realizes that, that's all.

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, elaine567 said:

Have you ever considered he may not actually want that?
He is almost 50, why would he want to change the habits of a lifetime?
He lives like a bachelor even whilst married because he likes it.  No??? 

Right and that's what i need to figure out with him. The good thing is.. people's desires change, or maybe not

[TamBuktu]

6 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Yes but you KNOW he is cheating and you don't know the extent he goes to, to allay her fears.
MM are pretty good at schmoozing, persuasion, manipulation, gas lighting etc. all designed to cover up the cheating.
If he has always played the bachelor lifestyle then what has changed? Maybe nothing, she trusted him then and she may still do...
Married women are often quick to dismiss rumour and gossip about their husband, they know him better, he would never cheat, he doesn't have it in him...
 Who would want him anyway?
It suits you to think she knows and is giving permission and approves, but maybe not...

Yeah could be, i am so confused with that. I want to ask her somehow... It will put a lot of things into perspective for me if I know whether she's really aware (as I think she is) or not.

[elaine567]

Just now, TamBuktu said:

I am realizing the following. She is so good at manipulating him, he might really think she doesn't know. However, her ploy doesn't fly with me- she is not an innocent girl but a bitter woman with a divorce and years of playing the field behind her back. It is just an act of manipulation that suits her lifestyle, she knows for sure, I am not sure if he realizes that, that's all.

It suits your agenda to believe she is manipulating him, your poor conflict avoidant victim, BUT he may be manipulating her and you for that matter...
Who really wins here? Who is getting his cake and eating it...?

[RebeccaR]

It seems irrational if Tam takes him at his word that he also wants to be married to her but there are strange and terrifying forces (4 violent stepsons) standing in the way of divorce. It sounds ridiculous because it is. Elaine’s straightforward explanation is overwhelmingly likely the correct one.

[RebeccaR]

I do think Tam’s admitted naïveté with respect to relationships is misleading her here. She believes because they spend every evening apart, MM and BW are no longer in a happy marriage. She also doesn’t quite believe he can really love a woman who is so much older - she herself is so much younger and more attractive! (Remember lilkatkat’s initial disdain for the overweight harridan wife of her boyfriend, before they met up and compared notes. Tam should read her thread btw). So therefore it must be scary forces keeping them apart.

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

He is living a life of a bachelor (well he was before we started dating), despite the “married on paper” state. When we marry this won’t be the case, so technically it will be his first (real) marriage.

The man is married now. Happily, or unhappily, that is a point of discussion. But, he is legally married to the woman -

Typical other woman, he is married “on paper” but his heart is mine… 

If he is living the bachelor life now, don’t expect that he will change if/when he ever divorced. 50 year old men don’t change their personalities. And, a 50 year old man who lives this way is not going to suddenly become a devoted and involved family man…

[RebeccaR]

3 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

there are female things in his house, car, pockets that do not belong to her,

Are you placing your lipsticks or tampax or hair ties in his car and in his pockets? I’m married and my husband doesn’t carry my things in his pockets, why is your MM carrying your things unless you make him? And he’s not scared of the sons seeing your feminine things? A bit contradictory to say the least 

[elaine567]

3 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

there are female things in his house, car, pockets that do not belong to her

Like what?

[stillafool]

4 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

I still cannot believe it she doesn’t have clue. As said I have been around a number of people who are “talkers”… unless she just refused to accept the obvious, which is even worse. How can he even confront her if that’s the case?!

Yeah his life will turn upside down and it will get worse before it gets better. I might sound a bit cocky but I think he also realizes what he’ll eventually lose if he reneges.. 

 

Why should she have a clue about the disgusting things you are doing with her husband?  You said yourself they don't spend ANY time together.  If you're so cocky why don't you tell her what's going on so she won't have to guess and then you'll see which one of you he doesn't want to lose.   I guess it's better for you to slither around and bite her when least expected.

You like a lot of OW who don't know their place, spend a lot of their time thinking about the wife when she doesn't have a clue about you.;

4 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

I am realizing the following. She is so good at manipulating him, he might really think she doesn't know. However, her ploy doesn't fly with me- she is not an innocent girl but a bitter woman with a divorce and years of playing the field behind her back. It is just an act of manipulation that suits her lifestyle, she knows for sure, I am not sure if he realizes that, that's all.

You don't know anything about this woman.  It's obvious that you're the one who is bitter and jealous.

Edited November 6, 2021 by stillafool

[stillafool]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

For example you claim he's the handyman in your building or his building? He may tell his wife he's working or whatever.

EXactly! and he doesn't even have to go out of his way to see you.  Check on his building, spend some time with OW.  Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

He is living a life of a bachelor, despite the “married on paper” state.

Do they live together? Where does he go when he leaves you every night? It's unclear what "married on paper" means if they have been married and live together as husband and wife. Is it a residency (sham) marriage?

[ExpatInItaly]

10 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

Because people were wondering if he was going out before and I also had some fun with the word choice. Nothing to proof here yes I know the person.

May I ask why?

You seem to struggle a lot with communicating clearly and directly, including answering quite simple questions on this board. It would be easier to understand the real story and thus give you useful feedback if you responded without trying to be coy.