It's complicated - insight needed

[Starswillshine]

7 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Yes I know that's a big fear of his. It saddens me because material things are replaceable.

I said I can offer never said he will accept or even wants to accept. Call me desperate if you want, for my own sake I am ready for plan B or plan C. He doesn't even know about this, it's in my cards.

Just curious...

What is it about this guy that is so remarkable that you would be willing to go through all these hoops for and do all these things for? What is it about him that you love? Think beyond, "We have a connection/bond/in love/etc."

[BaileyB]

10 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Yes I know that's a big fear of his. It saddens me because material things are replaceable.

Says the woman who stands to gain - to lose nothing - in this situation… Again, you don’t want to sound dismissive, but you do. 

[TamBuktu]

2 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Says every married man wanting to placate his OW while delaying/avoiding the decision to divorce. 

It’s classic - her family doesn’t like me but I don’t want to “be the bad guy” and deal with the consequences. I want to do this right - not fast. Just give me more time… 

So very typical, to everyone but the OW who sees his “honesty” as genuine and buys the so story he is selling - poor man, he just feels so inferior, they treat him so badly, he wants to do the right thing, he just needs my understanding and patience…

He never said the above - I did. I said I need to act smart not fast with my communication with him.

If he is placating me, great. Way better than angry family running after us, isn't it?

[RebeccaR]

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

Says the woman who stands to gain - to lose nothing - in this situation… Again, you don’t want to sound dismissive, but you do. 

It’s interesting that Tam is dismissing a legitimate, practical, real-world objection as an irrational “fear”

[TamBuktu]

3 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

To be fair, it’s not up to you to decide on his behalf that he can do without material things that are, you know, his things. Perhaps he loves you but not enough to sacrifice his entire world for you. That’s understandable, isn’t it?

Is it. It very much is.

[RebeccaR]

Just now, TamBuktu said:

He never said the above - I did. I said I need to act smart not fast with my communication with him.

If he is placating me, great. Way better than angry family running after us, isn't it?

Why not just remain unmarried lovers if the risk is so great? You could even have a child if you really want, single motherhood is more and more accepted and clearly you live in a country where IVF practitioners are familiar with single women becoming pregnant on their own.

[TamBuktu]

4 minutes ago, Starswillshine said:

Just curious...

What is it about this guy that is so remarkable that you would be willing to go through all these hoops for and do all these things for? What is it about him that you love? Think beyond, "We have a connection/bond/in love/etc."

I have never met someone else who complements me so well. My weaknesses are his strengths and vice versa. He "gets" me better than anyone else I know, man or woman, lover or friend. I feel myself around him. We align in our beliefs about the world, mostly. I see he will be an amazing father for my future children. I think together we'll go further than each of us individually.

[RebeccaR]

1 minute ago, TamBuktu said:

I have never met someone else who complements me so well. My weaknesses are his strengths and vice versa. He "gets" me better than anyone else I know, man or woman, lover or friend. I feel myself around him. We align in our beliefs about the world, mostly. I see he will be an amazing father for my future children. I think together we'll go further than each of us individually.

This is every OW post, ever, in a nutshell. The only man who will ever truly get me is unfortunately married to someone else 

[TamBuktu]

4 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Why not just remain unmarried lovers if the risk is so great? You could even have a child if you really want, single motherhood is more and more accepted and clearly you live in a country where IVF practitioners are familiar with single women becoming pregnant on their own.

I have huge issues with that. I just can't get my mind around it. I maybe would have, if I had a solid proof that his concerns are valid. At this point, I just don't... I don't believe it is unsurmountable obstacle. If I get convinced otherwise... maybe. But not for now. 

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, RebeccaR said:

This is every OW post, ever, in a nutshell. The only man who will ever truly get me is unfortunately married to someone else 

Life stinks, doesn't it? 

[NuevoYorko]

On 10/28/2021 at 1:46 PM, TamBuktu said:

Why so?

He's not going to get divorced because, to quote you:

Quote

Issue: He isn't initiating a divorce, He never terminated a relationship in his life.

After 3 years.  Seems like this arrangement is working well for him and to some extent to you as well.  Otherwise you would not be in it. 

[RebeccaR]

3 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Life stinks, doesn't it? 

It’s just not a rational thought. He doesn’t really “get” you (if he did he would already be divorced and in a real relationship with you after 3 years - it’s not like 3 months where you could still say he’s getting his affairs in order). Also, he doesn’t even know the “real” you because you’re consciously trying to be bubbly and carefree when you see him. I understand you’re attracted to him and have things in common, but tying yourself to the idea that he’s the only man for you is very damaging to yourself.

[Starswillshine]

8 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I have never met someone else who complements me so well. My weaknesses are his strengths and vice versa. He "gets" me better than anyone else I know, man or woman, lover or friend. I feel myself around him. We align in our beliefs about the world, mostly. I see he will be an amazing father for my future children. I think together we'll go further than each of us individually.

So all I got out of this is "my soul mate" type stuff... and not actually what you love about HIM. 

From what you have written here, he is a liar, manipulator, placates the people in his life, conflict avoidant, and has given zero indication that he is leaving his wife to pursue a real relationship with you. This does not seem like a man who is worthy of falling in love with and giving up so much of your life for. 

When you first typed this out, I tried to keep an open mind that you were in a very publicly accepted mistress role, but the more I read from you, it seems that is not at all the case. That you are building up this grand romantic relationship in your space.

Though I could be completely ignorant on this, and likely it is different in many places, but I have had lots of friends who have done IVF, NEVER have their SO had to sign away parental rights for it. They had to sign consent forms for their sperm to be used. But not sign away parental rights. I am certain quite a few of them would have never been ok with that. 

[RebeccaR]

10 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I have huge issues with that. I just can't get my mind around it. I maybe would have, if I had a solid proof that his concerns are valid. At this point, I just don't... I don't believe it is unsurmountable obstacle. If I get convinced otherwise... maybe. But not for now. 

You are the one putting up obstacles:

1. You can only use him as a sperm donor, not a stranger, because you can’t handle a stranger mixing with your genes

2. You can’t consider being a single mom

3. You can’t consider any other man because this is the only man out of 4 billion in the world who will ever get you 

4. you offer money as a solution to everything. He can live with you, you will leave him your estate, you will personally pay the BW’s family to leave you guys alone.

i’m a little concerned for you. Do you have any family of your own you can confide in or lean on for support? You are far too reliant on his family who probably don’t have your best interests at heart.

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, Starswillshine said:

So all I got out of this is "my soul mate" type stuff... and not actually what you love about HIM. 

From what you have written here, he is a liar, manipulator, placates the people in his life, conflict avoidant, and has given zero indication that he is leaving his wife to pursue a real relationship with you. This does not seem like a man who is worthy of falling in love with and giving up so much of your life for. 

When you first typed this out, I tried to keep an open mind that you were in a very publicly accepted mistress role, but the more I read from you, it seems that is not at all the case. That you are building up this grand romantic relationship in your space.

Though I could be completely ignorant on this, and likely it is different in many places, but I have had lots of friends who have done IVF, NEVER have their SO had to sign away parental rights for it. They had to sign consent forms for their sperm to be used. But not sign away parental rights. I am certain quite a few of them would have never been ok with that. 

Just download the IVF consent form from any clinic and see what the clauses are for extended storage. The test I believe is how the forum people interpreted it, but I’m not commenting on this further.

Let me think more about how to rephrase what you call soulmate stuff but if we are to put each other down, I share with him a lot of the above “vices” so they don’t bother me too much? Not everyone is perfect..

[TamBuktu]

3 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

You are the one putting up obstacles:

1. You can only use him as a sperm donor, not a stranger, because you can’t handle a stranger mixing with your genes

2. You can’t consider being a single mom

3. You can’t consider any other man because this is the only man out of 4 billion in the world who will ever get you 

4. you offer money as a solution to everything. He can live with you, you will leave him your estate, you will personally pay the BW’s family to leave you guys alone.

i’m a little concerned for you. Do you have any family of your own you can confide in or lean on for support? You are far too reliant on his family who probably don’t have your best interests at heart.

Thanks reading this made me laugh a bit but there is some truth. Loved the summary format.

Yes, I have people to rely on that doesn’t involve him.

I’ll share more maybe but first I want to sink in few things before sharing more information.

[BaileyB]

22 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

tying yourself to the idea that he’s the only man for you is very damaging to yourself.

It’s very limiting, when what you desire is marriage and children and the man you have chosen is married to another woman.

[BaileyB]

19 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I share with him a lot of the above “vices” so they don’t bother me too much?

Just wait until you live with him for a while - and he is so conflict avoidant that he can’t tell his wife to quit texting or going to her house to fix things (I’m sure you will say now that won’t bother you, you have planned for this). Or maybe he will be lying to you about staying late at work/and you will be worrying that he is spending time with another woman. 

No offence, but your lack of relationship experience is showing here. This is the honeymoon - “We just compliment each other so well, even his negative qualities don’t bother me…” Trust me, this is the stuff of new relationships and ROM/COMS…

Edited November 1, 2021 by BaileyB

[Wiseman2]

45 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

 I feel myself around him. We align in our beliefs about the world, mostly. I see he will be an amazing father for my future children. 

Are he and his wife from the same culture/country/language/religion?  You claim her family doesn't accept him. Is that based on his age or his lower station in life than hers?

Are you and he from the same country/culture/language/religion? Do you both speak the same language or do you try tp speak in a common language such as English to communicate? What makes you think you're soulmates?

[TamBuktu]

49 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Just wait until you live with him for a while - and he is so conflict avoidant that he can’t tell his wife to quit texting or going to her house to fix things (I’m sure you will say now that won’t bother you, you have planned for this). Or maybe he will be lying to you about staying late at work/and you will be worrying that he is spending time with another woman. 

No offence, but your lack of relationship experience is showing here. This is the honeymoon - “We just compliment each other so well, even his negative qualities don’t bother me…” Trust me, this is the stuff of new relationships and ROM/COMS…

Oh yes, it will bother me big time, but I guess like with everything is about to pick your battles. I have no doubt this will be part of the things to deal with.. there are few others, i have weighted pros and cons

[TamBuktu]

41 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Are he and his wife from the same culture/country/language/religion?  You claim her family doesn't accept him. Is that based on his age or his lower station in life than hers?

Are you and he from the same country/culture/language/religion? Do you both speak the same language or do you try tp speak in a common language such as English to communicate? What makes you think you're soulmates?

He&her: No/Yes/Yes/No
He&me: No/No/Yes/Yes

Based on younger age and prejudices.

I wrote above for the soulmate "reasons"

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

No offence, but your lack of relationship experience is showing here.

Big time. 

And that naievty works out very nicely for him, unforunately. If I were your sister or best friend, OP, I would be very concerned about the choices you've been making with this clown. 

[vla1120]

On 10/29/2021 at 11:09 PM, TamBuktu said:

No shared business or assets. Declaration of homestead but separate ownership.

That's why the thread, need insights why

What's a nightmare for one person might not be a big deal for another but who is the judge here?

Well, when I divorced my husband, it was begrudgingly with the knowledge that he would get 1/2 of my pension. Does you MM stand to lose half of a pension, or half of everything else he has acquired? Even then, I would not have stayed with him just to keep my pension intact. My sanity was more important.

[TamBuktu]

31 minutes ago, vla1120 said:

Well, when I divorced my husband, it was begrudgingly with the knowledge that he would get 1/2 of my pension. Does you MM stand to lose half of a pension, or half of everything else he has acquired? Even then, I would not have stayed with him just to keep my pension intact. My sanity was more important.

I don't know. Does it depend on whether the divorce is contested or not? All his properties has been acquired prior to marriage , one still has mortgage- can she ask for 1/2 on that?

[RebeccaR]

28 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I don't know. Does it depend on whether the divorce is contested or not? All his properties has been acquired prior to marriage , one still has mortgage- can she ask for 1/2 on that?

Maybe they have a prenup? If he won’t even acknowledge his marriage, how would you even know?